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7:00 PM
@Mithical Welp, I'm in.
 
@Mithical I've been lurking ever since they got it going, but this may push me to finally start contributing what I can.
 
I'm wondering if I can find something less ... attachmenty on the internet to do for a bit
 
I've been surfing Wikipedia more.
 
@Mithical [gives star-shaped lozenge]
 
Is it a zinc one? I need one of those for my cold
 
7:07 PM
heh, I've been doing that regularly :D
 
@Mithical Absolutely! Only the best.
 
:D
 
@Mithical ... They still don't have a functioning site going?
 
No, they want to get it right the first time so everything being's discussed to death first.
Although I think a skeleton is almost ready if I understand correctly.
 
Yea, that "discussion it to death" is what I noticed...
Months ago
Their GH is empty.
 
7:10 PM
considering the latest influx of people to that project, it might actually start to take off properly now
 
delurking
@Vogel612'sShadow Yeah, LOTS of heavy hitters over there
I think we will soon be seeing a Youtube video titled "The rise and fall of SE"
 
Meh, A homecontroller and login functionality is hardly a skeleton for a QA site.
 
Give it time....
 
They've been at it since the monica situation started, FYI
 
7:15 PM
@Cerbrus only in drips and drabs. It's starting to snowball.
They are also very angry, which makes them highly motivated.
 
We'll see about that
 
@Cerbrus hoping they fail, eh?
 
Yup, anger is a good base to build a project on
 
@Cerbrus it worked for activision
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica Anger fades. It'll need more than that to live.
But I hope it does.
 
7:17 PM
Not hoping. I know they'll fail. Why? It's taken them months to build a login page. Their discord is just them discussing stuff, last I saw with limited knowledge, getting defensive if you point out a flaw in their plan
Too much politics, too little getting it done
 
Eh. We'll see.
 
Yeah, let's wait and see.
Telling people they almost certainly will fail isn't very nice...
 
@Rubiksmoose What typically happens in situations like this, is the same thing that happened when a bunch of programmers at Atari got POed and started Activision
 
And then they have a functioning site. But no plan to get folks to actually use it.
Meh
 
@Cerbrus not everything there is being discussed publicly....
 
7:19 PM
It was back when I last was on that discord
 
It's not like hashing it out here is going to decide anything one way or another.
 
Apparently transparency is no longer their core value?
SE clones are a dime a dozen. You'd have to have a spectacular site to make it come even close to SE's traffic
 
@Rubiksmoose The topic comes up at TWP quite often. Angry, motivated ex-employees taking on their previous employers often start out driven by rage, but that quickly shifts to pride.
 
There's another project that actually has functioning Q&A setup. dunno the name any more, but it's something
 
@Cerbrus and SE was a clone of TechRepublic. TR isn't doing so well these days.
 
7:21 PM
SE came at the right time
 
Oh, and then there was that little site that took on MySpace...
 
The interwbs were differnt in those days
 
@Cerbrus Right, they didn't use electricity
 
The treasure is the already built knowledge in Q&As at Stack Exchange. Unless all that transerred to a new Open Source project, it has to start from scratch.
I dunno if transferring all that content, would be legal regarding the Creative Commons license would be legal.
 
It's not
 
7:22 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ would be
 
Sure it is.
 
its been done before
just under the CC licence
 
Well, not without a crapload of attribution and backlinks
 
Basically advertising SE for free, if you're doing it right
(Most clones that rip SE content aren't)
 
7:23 PM
@Cerbrus SubscribeStar is starting to threaten Patreon too, BTW
 
Meh, never heard of it
 
@Cerbrus you have now.
 
Okay dad xD
 
@Cerbrus Yeah, I'm probably old enough.
 
And I'm off to the stables :D
 
7:25 PM
I am the ancient one, he who speaks of punch cards.
 
@Cerbrus Have fun!
 
Thanks :D
 
My fitbit already thinks I'm exercising...
 
@Cerbrus and remember, every silver lining has it's dark dark cloud
It will be interesting to see where things go from here.
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica Most important: Don't stumble when you're carrying them to the server room ;-)
 
7:27 PM
Not only that, but a leaf-blower can bring about Gotterdammerung
 
what's Ragnarøk got to do with that?
 
Revolution! Just... don't forget to print enough pamphlets
 
I don't envy the job Tinkeringbell and JourneyMan will have for the next few days.
But Meta won't be with us much longer so maybe it'll get easier?
 
@GeorgeStocker I'm not thinking about it at the moment honestly
 
Just please don't make it harder than it is. I'll try and do what I can for those that are left... Maybe I will take it easy after.
 
7:38 PM
this was a bit of a gut punch
 
@JourneymanGeek hard same. I can only imagine the turmoil in the TL about it.
 
Not a surprising gut punch, let's be honest
 
@ndugger a surprising gut punch
 
@GeorgeStocker There hasn't been any confirmation that said they'll sunset Meta entirely... I guess once I know, you'll do too... but in the meanwhile, just ... don't
 
Maybe surprising if you haven't been paying attention to SE running the business into the ground over the past year
 
7:39 PM
well a few by the looks of things
@ndugger actually longer
 
Well yes
 
I've only been around sligtly over a decade
 
🚽
 
@ndugger it's been more than a year. I was warning people over 2 years ago
One of the advantages of being so damn old is that hindsight begets foresight
 
Yes, I agree, I was just making a point
 
7:41 PM
@ndugger Honestly, it was. To me at at least.
 
That it could happen, sure
 
@Rubiksmoose Not just to you... gut-punch describes the feeling quite well, yet not adequately...
 
to who it happened? As far as we know Robert and Shog?
 
@Rubiksmoose that's because you tend to look on the bright side of things. You haven't become jaded, cynical and bitter
 
that no
 
7:42 PM
For me it's very emotionally centered because we put so much of our blood, sweat, and tears into making this thing work.
9
And I know whatever I think I put in, others put in more, and Shog and Robert Cartaino put in even more.
 
@JourneymanGeek Bad decisions going out like candy at carnival right now :-P
 
But if you think about how terrible all of their decisions have been, are you honestly surprised they'd can their best people? The entire leadership team must be a drunken trainwreck at this point. No idea who's steering the ship, but they're headed straight for the lighthouse, full speed.
 
@GeorgeStocker the lesson there is not to put so much of yourself into something you don't own
2
 
I used a train and a boat analogy in the same sentence.
It's not even weird.
 
what about planes and cars?
 
7:44 PM
Missed opportunity
 
What puzzles me is what thinking could possibly result in believing that these firings are a good idea...
 
@JourneymanGeek Maybe I am projecting too much, but since the beginning of the Monica thing I thought to myself, "Shog is too honest to go along with this for long".
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica This would be twice I've learned this lesson in a year. "Don't let your ego get too close to your position, so that if your position gets shot down, your ego doesn't go with it." -- Colin Powell
3
 
@ndugger I'm most active at TWP, and believe me, we talk about companies making these kinds of decisions all the time... they all end the same way
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica The promise was always that we owned some of it, too. That has been betrayed.
 
7:44 PM
I like this version of the quote better: brainyquote.com/quotes/colin_powell_138121
Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it. -- Colin Powell
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica SE seems determined to cure me of that habit and disposition though.
 
@GeorgeStocker yeah, I learned that one as well, but again, I'm old, and enough of a fool as it is, I had to learn something along the line
 
obviously I am joking, and SE is not ran by demonic crab people. Just regular crab people.
 
@Rubiksmoose It will, huh?
 
I wasted so much time today following this circus. Thanks so much for the fun, but back to work!
 
7:47 PM
o/
 
@Tinkeringbell I'm very stubborn though. I'd give them even odds at this rate.
 
Just for the record: when I came in yesterday, to "complain": it is so boringly quiet on MSE since a few days ... that wasn't an invitation or attempt to cause new drama.
2
 
@GhostCatsalutesMonicaC. I don't particularly think its your fault
 
@Rubiksmoose :)
 
@JourneymanGeek Still. "Be careful what you wish for".
Thanks though!
 
7:59 PM
@GhostCatsalutesMonicaC. Well, MSE is decidedly not boring anymore. They should sell more ads before they do this with the traffic they gin up...
 
Well. Creating "value" for SE Inc. is the last thing I worry about at this point.
My main reason to still post on MSE is the hope that doing so creates more COST for them than revenue ;-)
 
ehhh I'm pretty sure at this point almost anyone on meta who was "I'll whitelist SE because I care about supporting it" a year ago is now "I adblock SE crazy because I care about spiting it".
 
@ndugger I am kinda happy I only learned about it at 8 pm my time ... but something tells me that the crazy will continue for a few days to come.
 
8:15 PM
@GhostCatsalutesMonicaC. We should be over it in 6-8 weeks...
 
@Machavity I doubt that
 
11
A: Thank you, Shog9

Shog9No... Thank you. My head's still spinning; nothing lasts forever, but... Sometimes we fool ourselves thinking it might. But one thing I know: I'm deeply, sincerely touched by this thread. I've always considered y'all - the people who make up Stack Overflow - to be my boss, my leader in this jo...

19
 
Rob
YKW writes meta for longer user names.
 
@JourneymanGeek Sorry, I meant 6-8 weeks
 
@Machavity I guess
 
8:18 PM
Deleted
 
ta
 
2 hours ago, by Mithical
There's a time and a place for things. The time is not now and the place is not here.
 
But ... that's not what Moloko says
 
I don't know anyone's situation, but I personally would be looking for a new job if I were employed by SE today. Good luck to those left standing, and especially those who fell victim today.
7
 
hmmm, companies do dumb stuff without realising it's dumb
All we can usefully do, is wish Shog the best, and send him any job offers we know of that'd be useful...
 
8:30 PM
@djsmiley2kindarkness Sure they do. Joe Kaeser (Siemens) is another blatant example.
 
Well, I'm about to go sleeping... Keep it nice, and be kind to each other. Please.
3
Night!
 
Night TB
 
N8 TB. We'll keep it civil ;-)
 
Night!
Has she left? Can I call @rene a twerp now?
 
Sure
 
8:34 PM
\o/
 
So who is this rene you're talking about?
3
 
Not sure. Too blurry to tell
 
Lots of flowery language
 
@Bart You should have put on the right glasses?
 
I am the right glasses
 
8:40 PM
Then where'd the left ones go? CODY!
 
I am always right
 
... he's on to us ...
 
and rightfully so
 
Hey guys, I think I left my glasses here. Anyone seen them?
 
8:45 PM
@Das_Geek The Tavern flash sale: buy one pair of glasses and get a moderator second pair free
 
Ask where @Bart left them ...
 
@Cody @Bart Consider getting varifocals :-P
 
@Machavity Would that count as bifocals?
 
Too many things at this point I’d rather not see.
 
🤓
 
8:53 PM
... are we being mocked ...
 
@Bart They're trying to contact you about your lenses
 
They can have these. I need some stronger stuff soon :D
 
Fisherman's friend?
 
MY EYES! IT BURNS!
 
@rene Mother's Little Helpers
 
8:56 PM
Is there a way to delete all of my contributions to the SE network? I don't feel like they should be allowed to have it anymore
 
Nope
 
@ndugger Nope.
 
Well damn
 
All contributions a perpetually and irrevocably licensed to them. Which is a good thing. So nope, no way to take it a leave.
 
just do it over a long enough period of time where noone would notice
 
9:00 PM
@user400654 Even then you can't remove any of your questions with upvoted answers or accepted answers to begin with.
 
@Bart Sharply focussed.
 
you can at least get rid of those that you can
 
@user400654 They’ve still got moderators left who aren’t stupid. So, we’ll notice. Please don’t recommend knowingly breaking the rules. It just means more work for us.
 
Nah, at "best" you're hiding stuff @user400654. None of it is permanently gone, it's easily reversed, and you'll run into a suspension.
 
9:01 PM
i mean... that's never happened to me, but i guess i'm a set of 1
:shrug;
 
You can get away with it if most of the posts you delete are garbage.
Not implying anything here, of course....
 
@user400654 Er, it would be noticed
 
only if done in ways that would be caught
 
@CodyGray You want some aloe for that burn?
 
If my account is deleted, are the questions and answers associated with the account deleted as well?
 
9:03 PM
No.
 
Nope
 
nope
 
Only the negatively scored ones.
 
account deletion is the worst way to handle it
 
Damn
 
9:03 PM
Pro tip: alerting an SO mod in here to your shenanigans is...not a good way to get away with stuff.
6
 
@ndugger Nope
 
@ndugger Just disassociated
 
then you can't even put text on your profile in protest
 
@ndugger Disassociates you. You'd become userXXXXXX
 
Oh, ok
 
9:04 PM
@CodyGray Why'd you ruin it! I was hoping they'd realise themselves XD
 
What fun is that?
 
i mean, that part's obvious
 
@CodyGray Sadism
 
I don’t moderate this site because of the love and support I get from the staff.
 
Somebody got to do it, glad some people are still up to it.
 
9:05 PM
Sadism is so ten minutes ago. I prefer Schadenfreude
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica That's closely related
 
34k votes cast
 
Yes. but sadism lacks that....je ne sais quoi
 
Schadenfreude is hard when you’re as deep in it as everyone else
 
that's cynicism or sardonicism
 
9:07 PM
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica Non sequitur?
 
@CodyGray it' only fun while someoe is hurt
je ne sais quoi
 
how many days would it take to undo those that can be undone
 
@user400654 Are you talking about undoing votes? I thought we were talking about deleting posts.
 
@Vogel612'sShadow Sarcasm?
 
@user400654 Well, you can always ask Shog9 to delete your account. Oh, wait...
 
9:09 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ no, sarcarsm doesn't require you to be in as deep as everyone else
 
nah, account deletion would leave my contributions
that's useless
 
Sardonicism and Sarcasm are very different
 
I've decided to be less sarcastic and more sardonic.... It's more in line with my macabre sense of humor
 
FWIW I've largely tried to give up my sardonicism and cynicism, because they were mostly coping mechanisms for my mental health, but sometimes I fall back to old habits
 
i wouldn't do any of these things, as I'm of the opinion that destroying your reputation/account or dissociating it removes your ability to participate in the discussion. Unless, of course, that's what you want.
 
9:11 PM
@Vogel612'sShadow I just cut out the middle man and gave up mental health
@user400654 WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica too young to want to do that, though it's tempting waaaay too often lately
 
@Vogel612'sShadow ah, that makes sense. I'm old, bitter, jaded and cynical. Eliminate the old part, and it doesn't work as well
 
I want a return to a point where i can enjoy participating on SO. I don't know what it's going to take to get there
 
@user400654 Will let you know when I find out
 
I want a new platform to gain momentum instead. SE doesn't deserve a 27th chance
 
9:14 PM
@user400654 Invent time travel perhaps.
^Sarcasm
 
@user400654 it would require SE to actually start to listen to the userbase
 
well, i mean, that depends on who the "userbase" is
technically, they are
if you segment the source of your surveys properly you can get exactly the result you want to match your goal
 
@user400654 It's all of us. Also, scrapping the CoC, and going back to plain, simple "Be nice" would go a long way
@user400654 well, they wanted to be "more inclusive". Those two words have been the death knell of many an organization.
 
@Richard That ship has gone from the safe haven and sunk already.
 
> Oh,
The taste of your lips
I'm on a ride
You're toxic I'm slippin' under
With a taste of a poison paradise
I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that you're toxic?
 
9:21 PM
Erdbermund
 
@user400654 If the last couple of months has shown us anything it is that complaining won't help. So...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Yep. That's why I'm no longer as fired up as I once was. I was warning for literally years
 
i mean, that depends on your definition of help
 
@user400654 at this point, it's the same kind of help that Old Yeller got in the end
 
9:25 PM
 
@user400654 Personal help desk never was a topic at SE / SO
 
@πάνταῥεῖ yeah, there's a group for interpersonal stuff, but I won't go there.
 
it doesn't have to be a topic for the purpose to be served, just look at how SO has turned into a code writing service.
No amount of moderation will turn that tide
 
According to SE, it's not welcoming to not be a code writing service, so they have willfully and blatantly sacrificed the purpose of the website, to be a technical knowledge base, to accrue more ad impressions and investments. Not shocking for a business to do this, it's just that their approach to it has been outright offensive.
4
 
@user400654 That just happened for moar business and advertising IMO. At the same time suspending or chasing away engaged curators who spent a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears.
 
9:32 PM
i don't think they're purposely designing for that though, it's simply a side-issue that they're not giving us the tools to fight.
more content, more eyeballs more money
 
You can't really fight about an account suspension applied from a CM.
 
?
i don't think suspending a single user who's gone off the deep end (allegedly) here and there has any meaningful impact on the overall.
especially considering that at that point they've probably stopped contributing/moderating anyway.
 
 
10:02 PM
@user400654 I have been repeatedly suspended for some pretty bizarre reasons, among them have been saying that I did NOT want to be referred to by a particular pronoun, incorporating book titles into my chat, using the word "this", and quoting the joker.
 
chat suspensions?
because, those are weird
(chat suspensions that is)
 
@user400654 yep.
 
it's pretty easy to get suspended from chat for stupid shit
all it takes is an out of context flag and people pile on
 
@user400654 Some pretty dumb reasons for others too. One was for voting to reopen to many questions too quickly.
 
so don't do dumb things
 
10:05 PM
@JourneymanGeek yeah, that's no protection
but it's more petty than dumb
 
Works well enough for me :D
 
@JourneymanGeek helps to have the hammer
@JourneymanGeek and it certainly didn't protect monica
 
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica I'm pretty sure there was some petty BS going on
 
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I don't mind a well-deserved kick in the pants, and I've earned a few. what I don't like is pettiness. I like it less when I see it happen to others.
Me, I've always been off on the periphery of most things, so a bit of abuse doesn't get to me unless other crap is going on. Bit when others get it, it bothers me to no end.
I had actually quit this site until all of this mess came down. I may leave again, now that things are settled with M.
This entire site was enjoyable, but not any more. As others have said, I don't know how they are going to fix it.
 
Rob
@Feeds Jpeg2000 is not Betamax.
 
10:11 PM
I'm sort of the opposite, every time my disgust with management dies down to the point I consider becoming active with curation/etc again, something else awful happens to re-enrage me.
 
@Rob wow, Betamax. Now that's something I haven't seen in decades.
 
Rob
Jpeg2000 is vastly superior to Jpeg, Betamax was a measurable amount better than VHS (and more expensive, shorter record time, ...).
 
@DanNeely I just can't stand bullying. I'm Autistc, LD, and hearing impaired and basically had a huge bullseye on my back growing up. I get stirred up
@Rob yes, I remember
@Rob just like the Commodore Amiga ran circles around everything else out there, but never hit the mainstream
 
Rob
I think it was the multitude of competing system, each significantly better, that fractured the market. Then IBM (and it's 8080 processor) came with better speed and less color, a business machine, with money and better mass production; it ushered in the x86 we have today.
 
@Rob IBM never used the 8080. The IBM PC 5150 used the 8088. And the 8088 was not faster than the Amiga. In fact, the IBM PC was the slowest personal computer on the market at the time of its release, slower than the Apple II, Atari 400, and Commodore 64.
 
Rob
10:27 PM
IBM left the PC market when history repeated itself and they became the ones being replaced - the birth of 'Moore's Law scaling' computers meant new purchases every few years.
^^ Yes.
 
The 8088 was a 16-bit CPU on an 8-bit data bus, taking 4 cycles to access a single byte (unlike the 6502 in the C64, which had single-cycle access), and had machine instructions that were 2-4 times larger than other competing 6502-based systems.
 
@Rob just like HDDVD was better than Bluray
 
Rob
IBM's early PC's power came from higher clocks and more registers, their success came from the brand.
 
Ah, a link to Trixter's blog. That's a real gem.
 
10:53 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, potentially bad keyword in body (199): Inauguration Day trump Shirts by Maria W Long on superuser.com
 
@SmokeDetector late to the inauguration party ....
 
uh, in 1987, when the amiga 500 came out, the PC already had VGA and Roland MT-32, 386dx, 16 MB ram and 300mb HD...
amiga owners thought their system was better but... it wasn't
and while that was top-of-the-line in 1987, it was still quite common to have 286 with 4 megs of ram 30-50gb hd, ega or vga and an ad-lib compatible card
 
Rob
11:09 PM
I think we old people were talking 128 KB of RAM and 10 MB HDDs:
The IBM Personal Computer XT, often shortened to the IBM XT, PC XT, or simply XT, is a version of the IBM PC with a built-in hard drive. It was released as IBM Machine Type number 5160 on March 8, 1983. Apart from the hard drive, it was essentially the same as the original PC, with only minor improvements. The XT was mainly intended as an enhanced IBM PC for business users. Later floppy-only models would effectively replace the original model 5150 PC. A corresponding 3270 PC featuring 3270 terminal emulation was released later in October 1983. XT stands for eXtended Technology. == Features... ==
 
yeah, that's 1981
I think
There were a few XTs around in 1987 but... they were really old by then
 
>_>
I might have been running one around then
We went from a XT clone to a 486 DX266
 
Rob
Which a few years later was boosted to an amazing 640 KB of RAM - "enough for anyone" - BG.
^^ An impressive leap, at the time.
 
I remember in my school in singapore we had a computer room full of archimedes (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes) since 1987 and they were equivalent if not better to amiga 500 :-D
 
Rob
Ah, the Acorn ARM. Today my ARM phone can run an Emulator to simulate all those old school systems and Arcade Consoles, with power to spare.
 
11:28 PM
On a less depressing note...
Any D&D/Critical Role fans out there?
Thoughts on the new official book announcement?
 
@V2Blast D&D but didn't play for 25 years.
 
Have you gotten back into it after 25 years, or do you mean you haven't played in 25 years (and still don't)?
 
@Pluto nah that can't really be meme
meme should be something funny, overall.
@V2Blast still don't, just have good memories of it.
Might get back to it one day.... you know... in 6-8 years... :)
Also played classic games like Champions of Krynn on a PC, with stuff like AC. THAC0 etc. Felt like actual D&D! :)
 
Heh. Fair enough.
 
So Shog didn't pay a visit here? :(
 
11:37 PM
I only really got into it during 5e (current edition) a little over 2 years ago
This chat, you mean?
 
Ah, okay. I wouldn't know, I just checked this room a few minutes ago :P
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard no
 
He used to be regular here....
 
can't blame him
 
11:38 PM
Not sure why? We're all friendly here, aren't we?
While he was working for SE people here might have nagged him sometimes, but now... no such risk for him.
Anyway...
!!/coffee Shog9
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard brews a cup of Mocha for @Shog9
 
Just in case.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard sometimes you need a little space
 
Rob
@ShadowTheBurningWizard They should have D200+ by then ...
 
@Sklivvz Not 1987. Amiga 1000 came out in 1985. The Motorola 68000 was way better than the Intel 8088, not to mention the preemptive multitasking AmigaOS.
And, yeah. I recommend giving Shog9 a little time to digest the news. He hasn't been very active anywhere. I somehow doubt he'll be drinking much coffee, though...
 
11:54 PM
!!/tea
 
@V2Blast brews a cup of mint tea for @V2Blast
 
Heh. Good guess, but...
 
The tea was for myself :P
 
Oh, carry on then.
 
@Cody hello! So rare to see you here.
!!/tea Cody
 
11:57 PM
@ShadowTheBurningWizard brews a cup of green tea for @Cody
 
If you and @Bart will speak together it can get really confusing. :D
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Yeah, I got suckered in earlier during a war over whose glasses are better.
 
@CodyGray yours weight more due to diamomd
 
My lenses are actually made out of diamonds
Makes it a bit hard to see, but hey, I can cut through anything
 

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