Tavern on the Meta

3:00 PM

i think one should not create a space where people socialize and whose main sold feature is to express thoughts and moments and interact with others and then apply censorship rules that overreach an assumed inherent social contract.

ofcourse the latter can be biased, vague and changing depending on where one lives. just stating my pov.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Censorship is crucial, e.g. if one person's thoughts and moments offend other person.

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric Hmmm... but one of the inherent things about social contracts is that social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their freedoms and submit to the authority (of the ruler, or to the decision of a majority) in exchange for protection of their remaining rights or maintenance of the social order.

So your thing only works as long as nobody misbehaves. As soon as people start getting confronted with abuse, they're likely willing to give up something to keep using the platform but not be confronted with the abuse.

So the questions that are there then, are what are you willing to give up vs. what do you really need to see protected/be protected from

CptEric

that's where a well stated social contract interferes and puts those offending or offended people in place.

take the bill of human rights as a base. based on it without needs of interpretation you have the basis for a healthy and respectful social interaction.

user1306322

2

Q: When logged out, on Questions tab, after changing page size to 30 or 50 and clicking on a page number, page size resets to default 15

The URL seems to only include either the page size or the page number, but never both. This is true for both logged in and logged out states. https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions?tab=newest&page=2 https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions?tab=newest&pagesize=50 While logged in, the desired ...

is it considered an exact duplicate if the parameter of the problem is the same but not the object?

I'm talking about the questions tab but the other post is talking about hot network questions page

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric Except that there's no universal human right's bill that every person agrees with. So we're now veering into a territory where humans are going to make decisions about which human right's bill, and how to interpret that (things like, does artistic freedom override each person's right to be accepted as they are).

user1306322

3:08 PM

it doesn't seem like "exact duplicate" in a straightforward meaning of the phrase to me

CptEric

there's one though that the majority of the world agrees and there's a fancy pdf that keeps updated by the UN when there's a change published

user1306322

I could agree that it would be duplicate enough if the pages were on the same tab list but this is a pretty different page

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

There is also a very important distinction between "offending" and "taking offence" - one that is often interpreted with bias.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@user1306322 not exact, but fixing one should give trivial fix to the other.

user1306322

@CptEric can I read that pdf?

Tinkeringbell

3:09 PM

@CptEric Okay, but that doesn't handle the second part yet... the one that judges and courts around the world are struggling with too

CptEric

un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights

download the pdf is halfway

user1306322

@ShadowThePrincessWizard except maybe not because they are different enough pages

Shadow The Princess Wizard

The issue is that the system counts on the page size to be stored in a cookie, not just passed on URL, so when there's no cookie, it reverts to the default.

user1306322

hmm

idk if devs would agree with that

Shadow The Princess Wizard

If they'll change it so page size always go on URL, they should apply this change on all places.

JAD

3:10 PM

@Tinkeringbell The UN would be a decent place to start. But freedom of speech isn't in there

those are much more basic

CptEric

anything that is beyond the reaches of the rights we all agree to live by when we become citiziens of our countries, voluntarily or not, should in my opinion not be treated.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

If they don't, and the other one is fixed while "yours" isn't, feel free to ping me and I'll reopen. @user1306322

Tinkeringbell

@JAD I used artistic freedom because CptEric used that a few messages earlier...

@CptEric That's another thing the book touches... 'your opinion' on moderation as a platform user/community member...

user1306322

@ShadowThePrincessWizard this is why I'm largely in favor of bug-tracking these as separate issues, but alas the dupe votes have decided otherwise

idk if I care enough to keep track of this issue myself, there are a number of other "insignificant" bugs that never got fixed and I don't remember them either but they're all in my post history

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Yup

All in all... meh. :)

user1306322

3:14 PM

yea yea

Shadow The Princess Wizard

pie pie

user1306322

time for some evening tea and a slice of cake

Shadow The Princess Wizard

!!/tea user13

SmokeDetector

@ShadowThePrincessWizard No such command 'take'.

Tinkeringbell

@JAD Also... article 19?

SmokeDetector

3:14 PM

@ShadowThePrincessWizard brews a cup of jasmine tea for @user13

Shadow The Princess Wizard

take = tea and cake

user1306322

just take me lol

Shadow The Princess Wizard

lol

user1306322

hold me, Smokes

Shadow The Princess Wizard

takes @user13

user1306322

3:15 PM

:)

Tinkeringbell

And the human rights declaration isn't really so much a description of a social contract... it's a list of rights, but it doesn't state the balance between rights and what you give up so that others can be protected... which is social contract theory.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

omg it's CJY!

Chris Jester-Young, Raleigh, NC, USA

4.6k 22 47

bug status-completed discussion feature-request chat support status-bydesign

CptEric

what you give up, is your capacity to stripe someone from those rights

Shadow The Princess Wizard

He is the real @user13! :P

user1306322

I have no idea about this reference or whatever

CptEric

3:16 PM

verbally and effectivily, harm to those is a direct threat to them

Journeyman Geek

Ugh. Is this from the book we talked about tink? 😄 I really need to find time to read it

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Some of it yeah, but somehow we got to human rights... I didn't get to that part of the book yet either ;P

CptEric

in other words, Article 30 is everything we need

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric Do I? Do I give up that right only? I think in some cases, people give up a bit of e.g. Article 9, when there's massive riots and police are just trying to clean up...

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek you should. I'm in chapter 3, it's a well done and well argued writeup

although I don't agree with every point

CptEric

3:18 PM

we don't give the right up, the government is breaking that right.

that doesn't make it correct to do so.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch yeah. Busy week

CptEric

that fact that there's massive riots somewhere is not a valid cause for arbitrary detention.

user1306322

what's the book being discussed?

CptEric

giving up that right gives space to the government deciding what massive and riot mean

Tinkeringbell

@user1306322 Scroll up :)

user1306322

3:21 PM

I did but I couldn't find it

if there's an amazon onebox somewhere it might not be loading for me coz geoblocking probably

CptEric

about moderation on the internet, the story behind it, where it's going, how communities behave, etc

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric You don't give up the entire right, perhaps... but you give up some freedom associated with that right (to never be accidentally swept up by police, to never be mistakenly arrested) so the police can do their work, and don't have to resort to arbitrarily detaining everyone all the time...

CptEric

i don't give it up, nor anybody should.

Tinkeringbell

The human rights bill is interesting, but also so broad... it doesn't deal with particular freedoms or smaller rights...

Or priorities of those.

The real world does.

There's a court case in the Netherlands that's gone on for years, just to find out if a politician can really incite a crowd to chant they want 'less Moroccans' ...

CptEric

which particular freedoms or smaller rights?

Tinkeringbell

3:24 PM

@CptEric Well, for one... the right to post whatever you want where ever you want vs. the right of companies to decide what they want to host...

Cat gifs don't go on pornhub, porn doesn't go on Imgur... that kinda stuff.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I would think in every civilized country people would expect not to be swept up by police

or at least, compensated for losses incurred because of

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Oh sure, it will be unexpected...

Doesn't mean it never happens.

Perhaps we're talking too abstract there, let's get back to the book and how it's about stuff on the internet instead :)

Magisch

I'm personally leaning more towards the zero false positive then zero false negative approach to policing

it's better that a million guilty people go free then that one is unfairly detained and imprisoned

CptEric

back to the internet and speaking about content: that's a not a right i recognize them to have.

not that it matters that i do or not

Magisch

I think social media companies should be regulated as public utility providers

Journeyman Geek

3:27 PM

@Magisch but everyone on the internet is innocent

user1306322

@Magisch and how are those regulated?

Magisch

And abuse of personal data for profit (e.g advertising, behavioral analysis) should be generally illegal. But I'm rather out there on that

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I'd rather be the one that's arrested for something I didn't do if I can rely on the court system, than having the one million always walk free...

@CptEric Yeah, well... that basically ends the conversation then :|

CptEric

for me as long as the content does not directly conflict with those rights, they don't have a say on it

Tinkeringbell

It's also going to make participating on any internet site miserable for you...

Magisch

3:28 PM

@user1306322 with various forms of non discrimination mandates. Can't discriminate based on categories, opinions, all that.

If they're serious about wanting to be a centralized platform, fair enough. Be a monopoly then but don't complain when we regulate you like one

user1306322

public utility providers are generally limiting their services to within their country's borders, but social networks transcend country borders, so idk how you could make Facebook listen to every single country's demands on how to treat their users

CptEric

i maintain my participation low key casual

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric You probably also use each platform 'as intended' to an extend... you don't post cat gifs on SE, I hope!

CptEric

yes but for the same reason i wouldn't dress as a buzzlightyear to pay city tax

every platform serves a purpose. if the purpose is sharing gifs, let there be gifs -> as long as they don't break those fundamental pillars of society, we're all fine.

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric So, to an extend, platforms (or societal norms) have some influence over how you behave... you give up the freedom to dress as buzz lightyear for paying taxes to gain some societal approval/avoid some weird looks?

user1306322

3:31 PM

do non-animated gifs break fundamental pillars of society? >.>

Shadow The Princess Wizard

non animated gif is quite pointless

user1306322

I think there are cases where gifs take up less space than pngs

Shadow The Princess Wizard

sure, because they support only 256 colors.

JAD

but they do transparency, unlike jpeg :P

Tinkeringbell

Then the way platforms are moderated (and they shall be moderated).... by deciding cat gifs don't belong on main sites, users participating here give up the 'right' to post cat gifs on main, in return for seeing valuable information.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

3:33 PM

So bad quality, you can "achieve" the same with jpg where you can set quality level.

Magisch

I don't trust tech companies to be arbiters of public opinion. Whether we like it or not, social media is in essence the public forum for many societal issues. So it needs to generally adhere to the same restrictions on viewpoint discrimination a government would

my 2 cents

CptEric

-----------------^

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I think the book works towards something like that too...

But you're already on chapter 3 so no spoilers...

I only got to the first one yesterday.

CptEric

yes and no, because cat gifs as much as i love them aren't a right

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric Hence the quotes... I get you, your definitions of 'rights' are way more strict than they are sometimes used... let's call it a freedom then ;)

Still fits the social contract theory :P

CptEric

3:35 PM

i know, that's why i said i don't usually discuss it :D

freedom gives you grey tones

user1306322

a 'right' dividend...

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric Those grey tones can use a lot of working out though..

CptEric

but the same way they give you a hand when moderating conflictive topics, they also allow for many other topics to exist that if strictly speaking an abiding those rights wouldn't.

Tinkeringbell

And essentially, if you use a site, the site has some say over how much freedom it gives it's users...

CptEric

freedom of speech is vague and allows 10-year long trials on wether racist messages are ok or not. bill of rights says they don't, period.

Tinkeringbell

3:38 PM

@CptEric And that's where people either start arguing moderation isn't strict enough, or should not exist at all ;) < Again, book :P

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Book book.... what is it all about??

Book!

scroll up!

book indeed.

I didn't find it :p

3:40 PM

custodiansoftheinternet.org < For all those that are really bad at scrolling up.

5

Journeyman Geek

Lol

CptEric

but that problem only arises when moderation is based on the company's or communty's freedom to decide what is okay and what is not.

user1306322

I'm just gonna star it for us scroll-deficient folks

Journeyman Geek

Or pin 🤣

user1306322

I'm also room-owner-deficient so can't even do that!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

3:42 PM

@Tinkeringbell I'm booking the book.

user1306322

@ShadowThePrincessWizard throw the book at it

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell not secure

Tinkeringbell

Okay, so ... community. A company can listen to it and act on that. Works great if small, and basically every user is speaking up.

At some point though, communities grow, become more diverse. At that point, either the company is going to get called out for catering too much to the specific group that's consistently speaking up, the people that are speaking up can get dismissed as a loud minority, and an assumption of a 'silent majority without complaints' sneaks in.

Soooo... not all decisions are always going to be made by communities or the outspoken parts of those...

@ShadowThePrincessWizard It's safe, I promise.

user1306322

huh changing to https:// leads to a parked domain page... with A CAT GIF

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell any virus is on you. ;)

@user1306322 LOL

Tinkeringbell

3:44 PM

(Also.. .didn't get complaints about it on my home PC)

@ShadowThePrincessWizard sneezes

CptEric

i know i'm hardskinned on this, please accept my apologies if i sound (or sounded) harsh

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell me neither, but surely not far in the future modern browsers will block non secure sites.

CptEric

sount?*

i'll never grasp irregulars correctly.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Get your copies while it lasts, then :P

user1306322

soun't

Tinkeringbell

3:45 PM

@CptEric if referring to past messages, sounded. If referring to something you're still typing.. sound :P

rene

sounded about right

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@user1306322 it's free SSL

Tinkeringbell

Also.. if you have to say that before posting something... remember that very first article I linked you, about how delays and thinking twice are proven ways to make the internet nicer :P

CptEric

:D

it's not meant to be a warning for a block of text, no worries

just that i know i'm pretty unflexible on my thought-train

user1306322

well if you consider chat, comments and forum posts (or meta posts) those are 3 different "speeds" or delay durations, and the longer the delay, the less chance you'll see "not nice" content indeed

CptEric

3:49 PM

i'd be a terrible moderator anywhere

user1306322

but that's the "nice per second" ratio, idk about "nice per post"

Shadow The Princess Wizard

I was a super mod on a small sized forum. :D

user1306322

while we're gamifying things :p

CptEric

dream job: the speaker of the house of commons. "Order! Order!"

user1306322

I kinda like the sount of that

Tinkeringbell

3:51 PM

Well, it's time for me to start packing and catch the train... If I come back, it'll be on mobile... which will mean a pretty nice 'delay' due to slow typing :P

user1306322

imagining a godzilla-sized parrot with a backpack catching a train with one of its feet and lifting it up in the air some 150 meters to inspect its contents

2

Tanner Swett

Remind me, are question posts on meta sites supposed to actually be questions or is it totally fine to post a non-question to a meta site?

I just came across the Area 51 proposal about model aircraft and I thought it may be a good idea to post a link to it on Aviation.Meta.SE.

CptEric

i think there's many non questions but i'm frankly not an expert on this

user1306322

@TannerSwett you should ask on their chat, I guess

per-site metas can be less restrictive

if you have a discusion to start about that proposal, that could be a valid way to phrase the post, not just to get through the technical barrier of what's allowed, but to actually start a useful discussion

rene

@TannerSwett I would always try to have it in some form of a question. For example: I came across the Model Aircraft proposal in A51. If that proposal comes to live can we and they benefit from content that applies to both sites?

Tanner Swett

4:00 PM

I went ahead and posted it without asking a question. This meta site is pretty quiet; I don't think anyone will mind.

CptEric

two minutes later

Shadow The Princess Wizard

nuking all dem non-questionz

@TannerSwett this one?

46

Drones and Model Aviation

Proposed Q&A site for experienced flyers, pilots and builders of drones and model aircrafts.

Currently in definition.

Tanner Swett

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Yeah, that's the one.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

You should share with friends and spread on social media sites if you want it to go live, not share on a dead meta site. :)

Tanner Swett

Well, my thinking wasn't "I'd like to see this site go live," it was "oh shoot, the Aviation.SE folks will probably be interested in this."

Shadow The Princess Wizard

4:08 PM

oh

Tanner Swett

For what it's worth, it looks like questions about drones and model aviation are technically already on topic at Aviation.SE (and I once posted one that was well-received), but it's pretty uncommon that someone asks a question about them.

Tinkeringbell

@user1306322 Hah, then shaking stuff into a giant slice of bread like sprinkles! ;)

user1306322

fairy bread, right

CptEric

fairy bread isn't real

user1306322

but there's gonna be a lot of red sprinkles

CptEric

4:15 PM

:D

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowThePrincessWizard I remember the first winterbash swag contest I did there was a drone hat... If that person is still around and not involved yet...

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell hmm? What person?

user1306322

I missed the moment when Firefox removed the built-in RSS reader meta.stackexchange.com/feeds/user/63550

Shadow The Princess Wizard

I vaguely remember such hat, but not a specific person... ?

CptEric

i won stuff on the 10M users thing

Shadow The Princess Wizard

4:20 PM

ohhhhhhhh this one!

CptEric

-8

Q: Probability distributions

suppose the demand for domestic gas has an approximate exponential distribution with mean 100 cylinders per day. (a) Find the probability that the demand will exceed 200 such cylinders on a randomly selected day. (b) What supply capacity should the gas filling station maintain during the day so ...

discussion

user1306322

@CptEric are you really that tall?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@user1306322 who said it's height? ;)

CptEric

i don't get it

user1306322

bruh x_X

djsmiley2k - CoW

4:20 PM

Does a flag downvote?

CptEric

oh

M as meters.

lol.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@djsmiley2k-CoW only red flag

djsmiley2k - CoW

@ShadowThePrincessWizard o_O

user1306322

an unred flag is in a state of supervotition

rene

@djsmiley2k-CoW only spam and rude/abusive flags

user1306322

4:22 PM

I wonder if I make enough dad jokes I'm going to spontaneously gain children

@rene do these downvotes help get posts deleted?

user400654

they do what any other downvote does

Shadow The Princess Wizard

24

Q: Do closed questions automatically get downvoted or not?

In April 2011, closing a question for some reasons (then off-topic and not a real question) caused the Community user to downvote the question. Officially, this feature was removed in August 2013. Yet I still observe that closing a question as off-topic, too broad or unclear instantly decreases ...

bug status-completed down-votes closed-questions

@user1306322 not directly but it's a way to gain the means to have children

user1306322

seizing the means of procreation?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Sure.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@djsmiley2k-CoW "very low quality" flags by humans on answers result in automatic downvotes if marked helpful.

In the past, this applied to both questions and answers, and to both human VLQ flags and the system's "low quality" automatic flag. It was removed for the former former in June 2018, and the latter latter in August 2019.

CptEric

4:26 PM

@user1306322 beware, dad jokes can quickly become uncle jokes.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@user1306322 yes, when an answer has -1, or a closed question has -3, high rep users (20k) can vote to delete it.

So it helps to delete, in a way.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

17

A: Does piling up downvotes help the site in any useful way?

I am new here, but I’ve noticed that downvoting on this site tends to be quite virulent with respect to off-topic questions or questions which probably are poorly formulated. Off-topic questions are downvoted to a.) decrease their visibility on the front page (-8 is needed for that), and b.)...

djsmiley2k - CoW

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog ah ok

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog just I see -8 on that question, and I'm like it doesn't need a DV, it needs flagging

I see this regularly on SU. People DV instead of flagging stuff that's literally in the wrong place.

user400654

i see more of commenting instead of voting at all than downvoting instead of close voting

Journeyman Geek

actually a little too much commenting ._.

djsmiley2k - CoW

4:35 PM

Ah, but comments have a 'human touch' to them

user400654

that's why their bad

djsmiley2k - CoW

A downvote feels like someones punched you, abet lightly

a comment, telling you why they punched you, helps you understand

But people expect everything to be 'Human'

this is why society is having such problems with algorithms. We expect them to act like humans, with compassion and care.

THE COMPUTER DOES NOT CARE EARTHLING.

CptEric

the computer has feelings too, lad.

djsmiley2k - CoW

Hah

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog That needs a small edit to point out that I now still believe downvotes are never cast to be mean, but are currently the easiest way of moderating content... So while they may feel mean, they're not meant to be ... Is a bit more nuanced than saying they never are mean. Hmmm....

Shadow The Princess Wizard

4:39 PM

lol

djsmiley2k - CoW

that image just proves my point.

Is taking away rep, "mean" ?>

Tinkeringbell

@CptEric Meanie! Look what you did to the poor thing!

@djsmiley2k-CoW For some sense of mean, probably yeah. It's meant to be an encouragement to improve to get it back, but that's like getting scolded by a parent as part of growing up... Never really is appreciated in the moment.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

status-tried

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Could've done that myself XD I was still wondering if it was worth bumping the old post

Looks good though, thanks!

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@Tinkeringbell Do you not want the extra upvotes? :)

Tinkeringbell

4:43 PM

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog I'm betting on down ones.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Well, in any case...

The December 2019 Travel photo competition is now open! travel.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6405/…

4

Q: December 2019 photo competition: "Winter or near winter public holidays"

The theme for the December photo competition is "Winter or near winter public holidays". I'm looking for photos that depict a public celebration of a holiday that is celebrated either during the winter season proper, or in the 6-8 weeks leading up to the winter season. Examples would be a large...

discussion featured fun photo-competition

Tinkeringbell

I submit this one:

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Gray pixels?

Tinkeringbell

djsmiley2k - CoW

hmmm. I may have to take some Photos when I'm in DLP to submit ;)

Tinkeringbell

4:46 PM

Had to make the batter first :P

rene

Oliebollen \0/

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@Tinkeringbell Are those pakodas? They sure do look a lot like them

djsmiley2k - CoW

Whatever they are, they look yum

Tinkeringbell

@rene I only like them freshly baked by mom... The rest all suck.

rene

@Tinkeringbell totally agree.

Tinkeringbell

4:47 PM

So I eat three while she's baking them, then I'm good for the year

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@Tinkeringbell So yours suck too...?

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog TBH, never tried and probably never will...

rene

Can I put in a pre-order?

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Dough/batter with raisins and.. let Google translate 'krent', I'm on mobile so...

@rene I'll ask mom ;)

djsmiley2k - CoW

Me freezing in dlp ;D

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

4:49 PM

@Tinkeringbell So then, definitely not.

@djsmiley2k-CoW Disneyland Paris?

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW Oooh! Looks cold but fun. I've never been at a time when stuff was all Christmas decorated.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

I recognized the Tower of Terror on the top left, but then the rest of the picture didn't seem to match with my local Disneyland (Anaheim, CA)

Tinkeringbell

Yep, Paris, from the looks of it

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Tinkeringbell oh it's amazing

yeah paris

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@djsmiley2k-CoW Provided the park was celebrating any sort of holiday at the time, that qualifies as an answer

djsmiley2k - CoW

4:51 PM

It's always holiday in DLP. But yes they'll be celebrating christmas.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Why fly all the way to Paris when I can just drive two hours to Anaheim?

djsmiley2k - CoW

That reminds me, need to sort out Euros.

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW sort out?

djsmiley2k - CoW

Because french? XD

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@djsmiley2k-CoW Okay, you can submit, and let the voters decide.

djsmiley2k - CoW

4:52 PM

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Not gone yet. this year.

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog So you can wave your stack of Euro bills at Dutch people like a proper American stereotype? :P

After calling the Dutch people Germans

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Well, I guess if you want to avoid spending time in the supposedly crappy CDG airport on a long layover, you can go there, as it's just 10 minutes away by train?

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog The entry fee is also over a 100 euros, I wouldn't of I didn't get the whole day there, including evenings.

rene

@djsmiley2k-CoW I don't know these Disney characters ...

Tinkeringbell

@rene Clearly from Frozen 2 ;)

Haven't seen that movie yet either, but the theme is there ;)

rene

4:58 PM

lol

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@Tinkeringbell From what I can tell, Disneyland Paris is much cheaper than either of the U.S. Disney parks. Especially considering we paid US $160 to visit Disney World Orlando on a very peak day, July 4 (American Independence Day).

Last I checked, the entry fee was 60-something euros...has it gone up since?

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog 0.o... Well, it's whatever the fool wants to pay for it, I guess...

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

Friendly request of meta moderators: if answers and comments on this question require moderation, please moderate the answers and comments, not the question.

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog booktickets.disneylandparis.com/tnsa64/live/shop/9/MAINUSCD/…

Seems the high days are over a 100?

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica Oh, the question needs moderating alright.

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

@Tinkeringbell ok

Journeyman Geek

5:04 PM

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica - eh, if folks constantly tell us what to do, and undermine it, well, moderation gets harder

People need to rebel smarter, not harder.

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

@JourneymanGeek are you saying I shouldn't have made the friendly request?

Journeyman Geek

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica oh in general

I closed the question cause... literally there wasn't much of a question

Its... worse now IMO

And when it gets reopened, it will get closed again - possibly by the community

and I doubt it will have any real impact on TPTB

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

Well, in general (not about this question), I'll keep making suggestions and voicing my opinion about what is or isn't helpful. I hope you don't take it personally :)

Journeyman Geek

None taken

and my statements too are more general

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

Glad to hear it!

Journeyman Geek

5:08 PM

problem is of course

moderating MSE has gone from herding cats

to herding pumas on fire.

Stop Harming Monica

The "clarification" didn't clarify anything, other than the asker believes it doesn't exist, whatever it is

Tinkeringbell

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica If you don't want to end up feeling like those suggestions and opinions are like shouting at lamp posts, probably take Geeks advice about rebelling smarter not harder to heart.

user400654

seems like a pretty useless question to me

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

148

Q: Can we get a comments only lock?

Currently moderators have the ability to lock posts, for any of the following reasons: Content dispute (~ edit wars), Historical significance (to prevent great but off topic questions from being deleted), and Offtopic comments Wiki Answer The locks can be applied for an hour, a day, a week, o...

feature-request comments locked-questions

Kinda hard to curtail a bunch of off-topic comments coming in all at once without locking

user400654

At best it starts up a conversation in the comments that is borderline offensive. it will never result in a real answer from SE or resolve any problems the OP might have with SE's approach.

Journeyman Geek

5:12 PM

Old master once say - if you pour gas on a fire, you can't say you didn't burn things.

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

While I respect JourneymanGeek, we disagree about some fundamental things. So, my "rebel smarter" won't look like his "rebel smarter". But I haven't tried to set anything on fire for a while now.

Journeyman Geek

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica which is understandable

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

I lit a matchstick to find light, only to accidentally set things on fire. Multiple times.

Tinkeringbell

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica Just a note: saying you respect people doesn't excuse actively undermining stuff. It's basically empty of there's no behavior to match it.

4

I note you have a habit of doing exactly that.

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

@Tinkeringbell is there something I'm doing that you feel is undermining?

The statement was just that. I do respect him. I also am not using that statement to excuse anything I'm doing.

I think both stand on their own. Respect and disagree.

Tinkeringbell

5:25 PM

Just think about it. If this needs pre-chewing, it's probably already a lost cause.

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

?

I don't like being told I'm a lost cause. I am surprisingly good at taking constructive criticism, though. If there's something that I'm doing that you don't like, give it a shot and tell me.

Journeyman Geek

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica so - pretty much, the unfocused chaos on meta probably feeds the folks who feel meta isn't useful

4

M.A.R.

Hallo

Tinkeringbell

@M.A.R. Goedenavond!

M.A.R.

I wanna be a lost cause but I keep getting found

Journeyman Geek

5:28 PM

there's a certain degree of important issues that need to be addressed, but this makes it harder, not easier for the folks to focus on what's important

I want meta to be its best self

user400654

i'd rather it burn

M.A.R.

Uh, where do I need to scroll up to

Tinkeringbell

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica So... Perhaps Google how people undermine moderation then. I'm not going to explain it as that's exactly one of the tactics used.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

2 hours ago, by Tinkeringbell

http://custodiansoftheinternet.org/ < For all those that are really bad at scrolling up.

user400654

it's being actively undermined from all sides

M.A.R.

5:30 PM

Hmm, page not found. Then a picture of a couple staring at a crystal, then another pic, then food that looks like little Pikachulings

I'm wondering if Pikachu would taste like chicken

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

If you ever feel like giving me specific constructive criticism, I'll listen with an open mind. I don't feel like being told "google it" is effective or respectful. I'll log off now. Feel free to message me or ping me.

Journeyman Geek

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica well - despite the diamonds, our ability to act effectively does actually depend on folks trusting us to do the right thing

there's nothing more annoying, or dangerous than folks armchair quarterbacking

M.A.R.

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog well I have a feeling authors like this often can't offer an impartial look on things and usually end up demeaning the moderating side.

But that's just a presumption

I didn't see anything that would catch my eye

I rather throw armchairs

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. actually its a really good read I am told

and recommended by folks I respect

M.A.R.

Well I have a nice little backlog; it'd feel reeeeal cozy there

Tinkeringbell

6:25 PM

@M.A.R. Don't let it get too cozy there. I just read the first chapter, but it's goooooood!