Tavern on the Meta

Bart

16:09

@SmokeDetector that user does marketing at Airswap: twitter.com/jayks17?lang=en

@Tinkeringbell re: "is there that little trust left?", SE Inc's lawyers are duty bound to protect their client's interest, not the community. It's never a good idea to trust someone else's lawyers to protect your interest. Saying "our lawyers signed off on this" is not a response to the concern.

Hitodama

@Tinkeringbell Wait a second... Didn't notice that before... is that a typo? You really mean that a reply to the license issue was posted on another question about the Code of Conduct???

Stop Harming Monica

@terdon the strongest statement was "our counsel is and will continue to be involved and on-board with any steps we take to perform our role as stewards of our sites". The direct question "did your lawyers confirm this was legal before you did it" as never been answered.

Worse than "if SE can get away with this illegal relicense they can get away with any future illegal relicense" is it sets a precedent allowing any company to get away with illegally relicensing content.

Tinkeringbell

@Hitodama Oops! Yeah, major typo: Tim answered the licensing post :) I'll correct it

Kevin B

meh

Stop Harming Monica

16:22

@Hitodama indeed the licence would be invalid. If SE doesn't have the right to grant CC-BY-SA 4.0 to themselves, they certainly don't have the right to grant it to anyone else.

It would be SE that's liable though, not the person who was mislead into thinking a CC-BY-SA 4.0 license was available.

I think that another user could legally use content pre-ToS change under 3.0. Whether and how the original 3.0 license was invalidated by SE's actions is complicated.

Though to be airtight, you couldn't include any content that was added when the ToS said 2.5.

Hitodama

@StopHarmingMonica yep, but that would mean that they would fall in the problem that John pointed out. So, yep, others couldn't use the 4.0 license - but so wouldn't SE. What I meant is that the original claim I linked implied that the switch was made so that SE could use the content while OTHERS could not - that is invalid -> if the license upgrade is really not legal then they too have lost the license on the content.

Stop Harming Monica

And I'm not sure there has ever been a time when all of the legal notices across SE have said the same version.

@Hitodama but the ToS grants additional rights to SE only, that allows them to display and moderate content on their network

If that's valid, then the comment is accurate

Hitodama

@StopHarmingMonica I am not sure that would hold IF the claims that they have lost their current granted license over the existing content are true.

Notice: I said IF.

Stop Harming Monica

@Hitodama no, it would. The rights are granted separately.

But there is another question as to whether it's valid for a ToS to assign those rights in addition to a CC-BY-SA license in the first place.

Erik Reinstate MonicA

16:37

We all know the view counter doesn't really work, though

Meta Andrew T.

@Hitodama I had a pizza just now...

Stevoisiak

Superfund?

user102937

I take it you haven't visited Meta.SE in awhile.

LinkBerest

I'd be happy if they'd just quit throwing banners at me everywhere

Stevoisiak

I have been on Meta SE. I've mostly just seen riots

Tinkeringbell

16:41

@RobertHarvey Or it's an age thingy? Sounds like something from before my time too...

@LinkBerest ban all banners!

Meta Andrew T.

What the heck is Superfund???

user102937

Superfund

The United States federal Superfund law is officially known as the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (CERCLA). The federal Superfund program, administered by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is designed to investigate and clean up sites contaminated with hazardous substances. Sites managed under this program are referred to as "Superfund" sites. There are 40,000 federal Superfund sites across the country, and approximately 1,600 of those sites have been listed on the National Priorities List (NPL). Sites on the NPL are considered the most...

Zoe the transgirl

@Tinkeringbell uBlock all teh thingz for us

user102937

[shrug]

Shadow The Princess Wizard

[waves]

PM 2Ring

16:43

@Zoethetransgirl Ah. Right.

Tinkeringbell

@RobertHarvey Ah, from before my time and American. That explains...

Well, cleaning contaminated sites is often slow... So don't expect miracles...

djsmiley2k - CoW

[wibbles]

LinkBerest

@Tinkeringbell They already have the left top menu (where they usually put that stuff) and I have no interest in their podcasts (which have nothing to do with anything going on and mostly just make me more angry that their answer seems to be ignore until everyone goes away) so...yeah, no banners

Tinkeringbell

Wobbles!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

nibbles @Kenny

Hitodama

16:44

> Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, a veritable butterfly, enjoying itself to the full of its bent, and not knowing it was Chuang Chou. Suddenly I awoke, and came to myself, the veritable Chuang Chou. Now I do not know whether it was then I dreamt I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man.

Tinkeringbell

Ehh.. @rene are you perhaps round a pc? Moving on mobile is hard...

rene

I am

Shadow The Princess Wizard

You are

Rubiksmoose

We is.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

You @M.A.R

PM 2Ring

16:45

@LinkBerest Especially irrelevant ones. Why on Earth would I want to know about some Microsoft Teams thing?

Kevin B

gotta hide all that opposition

Rubiksmoose

@KevinB [eyeroll]

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@PM2Ring because now they're integral part of Stack Overflow

(sorry if missing context)

Stevoisiak

I found it interesting

LinkBerest

I use C#.Net & Powershell alot - I still couldn't care less

Stevoisiak

16:46

But maybe not banner worthy

Zoe the transgirl

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Yo, we updated Teams so you can Microsoft Team while you Team

LinkBerest

I also don't use StackOverflow for Q&A on those because its not the best resource anymore (lot of old posts not being updated....like really old powershell esp)

Shadow The Princess Wizard

I also believe now that it's only matter of time before Microsoft simply buy Stack Exchange as whole.

Hitodama

gotta go for now. See you tomorrow I guess, when I assume I will have lot to read after this new things explodes.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Zoethetransgirl something like that! :D

@Hitodama wait, what new things?

Zoe the transgirl

16:47

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Well, they did start a Q&A product for Microsoft products

Hitodama

... Maybe I should just skip reading.

LinkBerest

I'm curious how the MS Q&A SE clone will work out

PM 2Ring

@ShadowThePrincessWizard And how does that impact me as a SO user who has virtually zero contact with Microsoft stuff?

Hitodama

@ShadowThePrincessWizard see above. Not going to comment on that.

LinkBerest

The top question on the first day was: "why use this instead of SO?"

Zoe the transgirl

16:48

It's technically not a full SE clone. They don't have downvotes

LinkBerest

^ that was the top answer

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@PM2Ring it keeps the lights on, I'm pretty sure SE need that money really bad...

Zoe the transgirl

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Eh, the CEO and some other sources claim SE is profitable

Raedwald

Downvotes made Jaydles sad.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

And if my guess is correct, it's one step in the way to be bought, but essential step.

John Dvorak

16:49

But, downvotes are unkind

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Raedwald huh? He posted something?

I kind of summoned him, no idea if it worked.

Raedwald

(In That Blog Post)

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Raedwald which? The old one from year ago?

It's not really relevant these days anymore.

rene

→ 20 messages moved to Room for rene and Rubiksmoose

terdon

@ShadowThePrincessWizard That might actually be a good thing. At least, if SE is bought by Microsoft, I'll no longer be afraid the network's being run by Evil Corp®, I'll know it.

John Dvorak

16:51

Prediction, if MS buys SE, they turn it into a literal redirect to their own Q&A with content scraped off SE's database.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Might be!

And I got to go too, cya!

weegee

Did they do that for github too?

I guess no

LinkBerest

The funnest part is how many of the Q&A questions on MS's were about Linux (because of the sub-system)

John Dvorak

MS doesn't have a github clone to redirect to

Stevoisiak

Microsoft has been pretty hands off with GitHub from what I've seen

PM 2Ring

16:53

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Sorry, I still don't get it. I mean, I'm happy for SE that they're getting more money from Microsoft, but banners should be about stuff that affects my usage of the site.

Stevoisiak

Where did the rumor about MS buying SE come from?

LinkBerest

@Stevoisiak Visual Studio & some Azure tools now point to Github as the first choice for version control

John Dvorak

Is it possible that Microsoft is actually a good guy?

LinkBerest

weird, right?

Stevoisiak

@LinkBerest MS's own tools have pointed to GitHub, but I haven't seen changes to GitHub itself

It's been more like MS have been changing their own tools to fit GH

LinkBerest

16:54

I meant, I think they accepted that (for now - i.e. unprioritized it)

Stevoisiak

Heck, the Windows source code was migrated to Git a year or two ago

LinkBerest

yep, Linus had some interesting talks about MS's new plan & migration to his tools

Stevoisiak

MS has come a long way since "Linux is a cancer"

Stop Harming Monica

@Stevoisiak that was fun. They had to build a FS extension for it first so it could scale to the size of their repo.

John Dvorak

They've come even longer way from "I think we can fit an OS into 64 kB of memory"

Stevoisiak

17:01

For anyone curious about Windows using Git: Scaling Git (and some back story) & The largest Git repo on the planet

PM 2Ring

@Stevoisiak But not sufficiently far from Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish for my liking... OTOH, I'm old enough to remember when Microsoft were just a bunch of geeks who were beginning to have a little bit of success, and they had the good will of the hacker community.

LinkBerest

That is before my time, I remember fighting licensing issues with upgrading corporate systems from Dos to Win 3.1 (and even worse with Win 95/98)

M.A.R.

@ShadowThePrincessWizard hey, who you calling M.A.R.

Stevoisiak

@PM2Ring I can't find the article, but an MS developer once wrote about the first time they went to a Linux conference. Developers visibly stopped talking when they sat at a table.

LinkBerest

Oh, I hated MS back then (now its benign - annoying at times but not evil)

fyi, adding subsystem made some many of my tasks easier (like using SSH which was still a pain with .Net if you were stuck on an old version)

Stop Harming Monica

17:10

@LinkBerest actually, native OpenSSH (client and server) was added separately, you don't need WSL for that.

LinkBerest

I didn't say it wasn't possible: I said a pain :)

Stevoisiak

Interesting article on WSL: When We Brought Linux to Windows

I should try setting up WSL sometime

There's a Python core library I want to work on, but I need to test the code on Windows & Linux

Is that something that could be done with WSL?

LinkBerest

yes & no

yes if you don't need Linux GUI

yes if you need Linux GUI and want to jump through hoops (but VM is still easier at this point)

rene

@Stevoisiak absolutely worth it. I had an ASP.NET core thingy running on both the windows box and WSL (Ubuntu).

→ 12 messages moved to Room for a future discussion ;)

Emilie

→ 3 messages moved to Chimney

Tinkeringbell

17:19

^ there's a room for that, please use it :)

Meta Andrew T.

Looks like I was brought into the future just now O_O

rene

If you want to discuss deleted posts that are about the future please go to the future!

8

Emilie

→ 2 messages moved to Room for a future discussion ;)

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16556431/steve-jones

Meta Andrew T.

I'm already at the future, now

John Dvorak

17:22

Just hypothetically, what would happen to somebody that answered a programming questions on MSE?

M.A.R.

Death by kittens

rene

@JohnDvorak they get an upvote

M.A.R.

Same diff

Rubiksmoose

@rene [TARDIS noises]

John Dvorak

fitting, given that I'd never get a pet cat

Emilie

17:24

Spaceballs - When Will Then Be Now?

►

Meta Andrew T.

@Emilie lol, good one :D

Zoe the transgirl

@Rubiksmoose Vortex manipulator > TARDIS :P

Rubiksmoose

@Zoethetransgirl Pffff. That nasty little thing?

Zoe the transgirl

@Rubiksmoose You should try it some time! Charges in a couple moments, makes it easy to just pop away whenever you're almost about to be killed by daleks...

Rubiksmoose

Yeah but who wants to be exposed to all that vortex crap. Give me my luxury sedan TARDIS any day.

Zoe the transgirl

17:40

Who wouldn't?! It's beautiful

Rubiksmoose

@Zoethetransgirl But it messes up my hair!

Zoe the transgirl

In that case, you should get my brand new line of hair products, known as The Vortex Hair Effect Blocker Hair Product Series:tm:! :P

Rubiksmoose

@Zoethetransgirl [gets out space wallet]

user58

Everyone knows that there's no ~~underwear~~ money in space.

Zoe the transgirl

Good thing we accept SpaceCoins

@user58 Of course there is, our exclusive crypto currency is everywhere, floating in the void and vacuum

Rubiksmoose

17:56

XD

David A

18:07

@Zoethetransgirl Zero-point Coins

Columbia says Reinstate Monica

Is someone cleaning up careers questions? There are a few in the CV queue.

rene

@ColumbiasaysReinstateMonica hmm, not me and the close vote reason didn't make sense either

Bart

18:24

@ColumbiasaysReinstateMonica looks like it

Stevoisiak

On the moderator resignations post, would it be helpful to move crossed-out mods to a separate section for reinstated mods?

I think it'd make the post more readable, but I'm afraid it could come across as singling people out

Zoe the transgirl

18:43

@DavidA SSSH! Stop sharing our patented crypto secret!!!

Bart

@Zoethetransgirl don't worry, in the void nobody can hear your secrets

Zoe the transgirl

Sooo echo get_input("Tavern_on_the_Meta") > /dev/null?

Shadow The Princess Wizard

19:15

@Stevoisiak not sure. Crossed out means a mod that wasn't sure at first, then changed their mind, right? If so, it's better to see it this way, IMO.

Stevoisiak

@ShadowThePrincessWizard For some, yes. It also is being used for mods that took a break, then came back

Tinkeringbell

→ 15 messages moved to Room for a future discussion ;)

Go edit in the other room ;)

Meta Andrew T.

19:45

great, now I have 3 favorite rooms... The Tavern, The Lounge, and The Future

5

Bart

That seems to be quite the disappointing sequel to The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe ...

user58

20:01

No, that was The Horse and His Boy.

M.A.R.

A movie about the consequences of taking hallucinogens

djsmiley2k - CoW