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mag
3:07 PM
shog is eternal
 
3:17 PM
2 messages moved to Chimney
 
36 messages moved to Chimney
 
waiting for someone else to escalate this to moving 172 messages to Chimney
also o/
 
mag
3:25 PM
caution: attempting to move shogs may result in suspension
 
lol
Don't wake the sleeping Shogs
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard oh wow, now that takes me back!
I used to love that game and I can't even remember its name now!
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard :O
 
@terdon Alley Cat
DOS game
Another one...
(that's to finish the level)
 
3:33 PM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Alley Cat!!! oh the memories
 
:D
For me it was part of a package, along with Xonix, Round 42, and some more.
Oh, digger!
For some reason no pacman for the kid-me.
lol
 
Here's one of my all-time favs :)
 
And when I wanted to play for real, I went for quests, or D&D games.
@Emilie looking nice, but not familiar with it
And when friends arrived, we played Golden Axe or Super Fighter.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Hero's Quest 1, it was a Sierra release
post alley cat though :)
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard YESH! Thanks! I can almost remember the music now! :)
 
3:39 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I know right!
 
@Emilie Persian Prince! Just like @M.A.R! :D
 
I went back a page in the transcript and saw nothing so figured we were good :P
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Is he a prince?!
 
@Emilie same way that I'm a Princess, yep. :D
I played that for hours, but eventually realized I don't like to keep dying in the same spot hundreds of times. LOL
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Who's your nemesis? Light the Prince...what's the opposite of a Wizard? Warrior? Frog?
 
3:42 PM
this reminds me of the time I actually considered the idea of posting a question on Arqade about Super Frog.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Yea I remember it was damned repetitive
 
@Emilie no real opposite, it's just an occupation. ;)
Guess Wizards should fight Dragons, though.
@Emilie and sometimes just hard.... :(
@Hitodama think old games don't really get much attention there
It's more for modern games, afaik.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Was another of those "If I can't find an answer, no one will and I don't care about giving free rep to people who like to post random guessing" moments.
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Don't really need to ask for "How to kill boss" question on stack when GameFAQS exist (to be fair, it is not like I use walkthroughs in the first place).
If I have to come here, is for info that I can't find anywhere else and/or has been lost in the years
 
@Hitodama well, you won't find it in SE either.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard exactly.
 
3:48 PM
Not without big amount of luck, e.g. the game developer happens to be around.
 
@Hitodama On many sites, that kind of thing would be useful as a self-answer.
 
@Rubiksmoose had I that info, I wouldn't be asking in the first place. Also, my latest "self answer" was greeted by another user posting another answer that started with "I know this isn't relevant for this question, but I am posting just in case". Not really encouraging me to post more....
 
That was so weird. I don't think I've seen that game in what, 20 years? 25? And yet I still remembered pretty much everything as soon as I ran the emulator.
 
3:51 PM
@terdon noooooooooo
 
@Emilie buhahahaha! Terdon, destroyer of productive Mondays, strikes again!
 
While there, also played thousands of hours in Bubble Bobble
That one failed to run smoothly in DOS Box... :/
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I prefer Parasol Star.
 
@terdon my case is more weird: I have nearly zero memories from my personal life as a kid (e.g. what I did in school, friends, etc) but I remember a lot of the games I played, what they were, etc.
It's like my brain kept only the best moments, but that's also not true, as I'm sure I had good moments outside of the games... :/
 
@Hitodama Fair 'nuff.
 
3:57 PM
@Hitodama never tried sequels of old games, except D&D games like Dragonlance. :)
 
mag
time to sign a new lease after work
because I just love reading a contract instead of unwinding
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I remember very little of my childhood except some weird moments.
Thing about games is, you can refresh the memories by playing again
you can't refresh memories of people you don't remember
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I can think of so many games that I seem to recall had "awesome graphics" and when I run them again, I'm sorely disappointed!
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW what moments, if I may ask?
Also, I'm pretty sure reason for my lack of memory is trauma of losing father at young age, even though I'm sure I was not really sad since I barely knew him. But... go figure, that's what the psychologist said. :/
@djsmiley2k-CoW well I'm still in touch with friends from back then... so that's not the case.
My first "real" memories are from army, maybe bit before.
hmm.... I might be a clone!
:P
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard You didn't know?
 
5:02 PM
You're nothing but a shadow of the original.
 
Lori Colston on November 04, 2019

Collaboration and information discovery should be easy, no matter what software platform you’re using at the moment. Today we’re excited to announce a new integration that will allow you to access the power of Stack Overflow for Teams inside of Microsoft Teams!

Internally we’ve taken to calling it Teams Teams, or just Teams². Whatever you choose to call it, this integration allows the users to take the ideas they exchange every day in chat and transform those exchanges into a rich knowledge base that empowers everyone at their organization to be more productive. …

Jisoo Shin on November 04, 2019

with Ben Kelly and Dean Ward

These days, everything in your life is connected. Your email connects to your phone, which connects to your garage door, which talks to your security system. It’s no different with the apps you use to get work done; everything needs to integrate smoothly, allowing you to quickly access relevant data from whatever tool you’re using at the moment. We have limited attention; anything not easily accessible in our workflow isn’t going to keep your attention for very long.    …

 
> Microsoft is one of the world’s largest and most well respected technology companies.
Citation needed.
/end Linux geek rant.
 
Must create a userscript to remove those blog/podcast links and notifications.
aww, my comment on this answer about, "An open dialogue? We can dream, can't we?" was deleted.
 
5:18 PM
@canon I would also like that
@canon I'm a fan of the GitLab CEO suggestion.
4
 
Neither one will ever happen.
 
It's way more of a possibility than the current top answer
It feels more like a genuine good-faith suggestion
 
It is but they'd never sit themselves next to that person for that conversation. I think they'd steer clear of that subject if they were invited at all. From their position, why would you want to invite that comparison?
 
I really don't like the snark added to that question via edits
 
It's also an unfair comparison. Gitlab is beholden to its user-base; SE is... less so. Gitlab has to be responsive; it has commercial users and those users have other options. What's SE's main competitor in the public Q&A space? Is anything left? Arguably, SE doesn't have to care about public Q&A anymore. It's already reached critical mass for launching their commercial products.
@Stevoisiak I don't know. The last edit seemed to add useful context. Sara didn't ask on SO/SE. She asked on Twitter.
3
 
5:34 PM
@Steviosiak If you're referring to my question, I tried to make it as unsnarky and sincere as possible. Any suggestions? Tell me what reads as snarky and I'll look at it. I added the clarifying bit in response to a comment asking if the post was an official request for nominations.
Both the question and the edits came from a sincere desire to share and encourage discussion.
 
@canon Which kinda makes sense even: she's likely to have a network there, people who know people... I doubt anyone on MSO has the necessary credits to contact the Gitlab CEO and sell him an appearance on the podcast.. Twitter is for social networking, MSO is still in a question and answer format ;)
 
@Stevoisiak ping (my last @ misspelled your username)
 
@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica How would this look? gist.github.com/Stevoisiak/7f30bffe79d625a38a0aef6549f4b94d
 
@Stevoisiak looks good. I endorse the edit, if you would like to make it.
 
It's interesting how some of the employees responsible for community engagement seem to be so afraid of that community.
4
 
5:42 PM
@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica Thanks
 
/me looks in
 
@DavidA To be fair, with the current state of meta, I think I'd be afraid of meta too
 
o_O
it's.... just a forum
I'd be more afraid of moderating it
 
It's more so... Imagine if the Q&A director had posted asking for guest suggestions on MSE
 
the director being Sara, or random person?
Someone would suggest Monica, of course.
 
5:50 PM
Was trying to naming anyone, but yes, Sarah
 
@Stevoisiak Two top answers would be 'Monica' and 'dont you have better stuff to do', probably...
Which isn't useful...
 
well that bridge was burnt, crushed by a bulldozer, had godzilla set upon it....
 
@DavidA More than interesting, it's both a symptom and a cause of the broader disconnect between the company and the user base. Users are pissed because we feel the company is ignoring us, so when employees do come and say something, we tend to bite their heads off which makes them less likely to come to us, which makes us even more angry over being ignored...
Vicious cycle.
 
they might want to maybe work with the community, before thinking that podcast invitations are important.
 
@Tinkeringbell That top answer is exactly what happened when another user asked
@djsmiley2k-CoW I'm sure they are having those discussions. But if a legal team or higher up has told you not to comment, there's only so much you can do
If you aren't the one making that decision, then you still have a job to do
 
5:52 PM
@terdon Probably made even worse when we nitpick on everything they do outside of the network as well (not saying there's never been mistakes there, but... This latest one seems a bit too much for me personally)
 
@Stevoisiak have they said the legal team has requested them not to comment?
 
@Stevoisiak I know ;) at least the other one is now avoided :P. I like Makoto's answer there :)
 
I honestly on't think they're having any such dscussions.
 
At this point, I am 100% sure certain legal teams have told them not to comment
 
wow this keyboard is mashed.
 
5:53 PM
@Tinkeringbell I think this is just another manifestation of the general feeling that SE is completely ignoring the Monica Meltdown and yet still has time for things like podcasts to show off how cool they are. Unfair? Absolutely, but it is understandable.
 
I'm not saying people shouldn't be angry, or that the podcasts are a good look
 
@terdon I get it ;) just hoping some other people start seeing this too soon... I'm getting the impression that there's not much Sara personally can do to fix the whole thing, so her business as usual will likely continue besides what she can do wrt Monica.
 
I'm saying, being afraid of making comments on Meta right now doesn't seem far fetched
 
hmmM
It does, if you're not Sara, and you're not trying to defend or discuss that.
Mods are very good (some argue too good) at removing anything off topic.
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW If the specific CM already has a good reputation with the community and is careful with their wording? Possibly
 
5:56 PM
yah
 
But a single mistake is enough to set people off right now
 
also, we've gone right back to the original point of this whole thing
people weren't nice
and nothing was done
So even if tensions are high, and everything else.
If someone - anyone - posts something, and people aren't nice. Do the thing.
To be honest right now, Sara or SE posting something, and there being no response at all, would send the largest message.
 
This whole mess started because people acted too quickly. Now in response, every response is guarded
 
@Tinkeringbell : Which is precisely the problem. You can't have business as usual when the situation is not usual. shrugs
3
 
This is just speculation, but I imagine those who started this situation are currently under scrutiny by higher-ups
Essentially, they are following the protocols they believe would have prevented this mess from happening to begin with
The issue is, none of those protocols help undo the damage after it has been done
 
6:03 PM
@Stevoisiak no. Monica was removed as a over reaction, to an accusation that the network was harbouring bigots.
 
@Tinkeringbell it's really disappointing that something as simple as talking about who would be a good guest on the podcast somehow looks like stirring up controversy, or even nitpicking.
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW Monica's removal and slandering is the damage I refer to
 
Same way the network over-reacted to the accusation the network was 'not friendly'
Which is amusing, concidering the very same person who's responsible for this, even has a blog post explaining how they themselves over reacted to thinking people weren't nice.
 
If a policy of "no comment" had been in place beforehand? Things wouldn't have gone the way they did
 
Or a policy of "Don't react to twitter"
 
6:07 PM
Monica herself has said the removal wasn't her biggest issue, it's the comments afterwards
2
> The email that I got indicated that I was being removed because they didn't think I would obey the forthcoming Code of Conduct. [...] If they had stopped there, you wouldn't be reading this page on GoFundMe.
 
well yeah
so "Don't talk to the press"
seems pretty obvious. it's a stardard part of most peoples employment contracts too
 
The press was the most egregious case, but the posts on SE haven't helped either
 
Maybe someoem should of got some traning.
training.
but, from what she posts elsewhere, I feel she just ignores anything that goes against her mindset,
lets..... iscuss somethingn else.
like how bad a keyboard sitting on another keyboard can make you type...
 
it shows ...
 
Rob
6:23 PM
Table Flip (2019) - Terminator Style:
 
6:42 PM
 
mag
no rent increase \o/
 
grats
man, the Lua and FoxPro tags get no love
 
FoxPro ... that has been a while ...
 
it's a niche skillset I picked up when I first started with this company
before they migrated away from it
we actually still use Lua in a few places
 
Last time I saw FP was to do a 2.6 to 3.0 conversion/migration ...
 
6:55 PM
the only reason we moved away from it was because of its limit
it couldn't access anything bigger than two gigs
so, as the data grew, we had to figure something else out
even with aggressive archiving
There were things I liked about FoxPro, though. That all-inclusive IDE was neat.
 
yep.
 
setting up table relationships for a god-view in the IDE was nice too
you use .NET predominantly, right?
 
yes
and some javascript when the need is there
 
<3 JS
 
I have a love/hate relationship with it
 
7:04 PM
@Tinkeringbell I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make much sense to volunteer unsolicited opinions... when other channels were very obviously used in lieu of SO/SE.
 
@rene like A/B test?
 
yes
 
@rene lol
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW this is you?
In my previous forum (aspfree) I created a thread "Show your face" or something along those lines. ;)
Was nice to see the faces behind the nicknames.
 
mag
world is really messed up if you think about it
so much is about connections rather then skill or merit
 
7:18 PM
It was always like that.
It's just that these days we're more aware of it.
Any context though? @mag
Or just a random thought?
 
mag
@ShadowThePrincessWizard the lease I just signed is about 30% under market value
I'm already living here it's just a renewal but damn, this apartment would never be on the open market or be at least a third more, and probably still get dozens of applications
 
weeee capped on comment deletion
 
mag
on paper, i'm not a very attractive prospect to rent this. But my dad knows the landlord so I managed to get this, without any real problems or proof of income at first
I could be dropping 200€ more a month on a similar place if I even found it at all
 
@mag What's that weird symbol? Spacebucks?
 
mag
got me thinking just how different my life would be without the connections of my parents and family
euro
I got my current job because of an internship I did once that I got because my dad knew one of the managers
it's literally nepotism
my whole life isn't even fair
 
7:24 PM
meh
 
Magisch checks his privilege
 
@mag wait, so you complain that you pay less? :)
 
mag
it's that nagging feeling
 
just depends on how much credit you want to give to those around you. like, i got my first job working in retail where my mom worked. i continued to work there for 6 years before i finished college and came here... if i wasn't a quality worker, they wouldn't have kept me on for 6 years. If i wasn't responsible i wouldn't have saved that money and then used it to pay for college. etc, i'm sure there's bits of your story that are similar.
 
mag
am I where I am because I earned it
or just because my dad knows people
 
7:26 PM
Because things were handed to you doesn't mean you didn't contribute to it and earn it
 
mag
what if I hadn't had these advantages? Would I be anywhere near where I'm at
 
we've all had stuff handed to us. I got a used TI99/4A at Goodwill for $10 - if that hadn't been there, I probably wouldn't have been a programmer.
 
@mag all you can really do is make sure you're demonstrating your own value now and going forward. Opportunities get you so far... and then you have to deliver on your own.
 
Heh. My programming started with a GWBasic guide. I copied code from the book to IDE and created a snake game. Then started to wonder how it works.
 
What if no one had discovered multithreading.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Sure, you can end up getting ins for certain places, but the truth is, we are all centuries deep on top of existing benefits from previous generations.
 
mag
7:30 PM
yes but
 
@TravisJ then an entire generation of programmers wouldn't have broken things trying to port their code to a paradigm they didn't fully understand.
 
@TravisJ so true...
 
mag
what about the kids in my class with poor parents
some of them never had the chances
 
if it really bothers you, you could sublet to the less privileged, at cost, and find another place more appropriately expensive
 
Being poor just makes you learn to work harder. In the end, those who struggle tend to be the ones who excel in life.
 
7:32 PM
BTW @Trav you still in touch with Jay?
 
No, is he well? I hope so
 
@mag your dad might know people but your dad can't do your work and if you screw up, you get fired, not your dad. It is no problem to use your personal network.
 
Life is political. Network like it matters.
 
I remember your conversation with him when he left, it was really heartening.
@TravisJ yeah, think I saw him twitting.
 
@mag I'm sure you can find ways to pay your well being forward. Make a donation, volunteer. That is appreciated.
 
Thanks @Shadow. Jay is an inspiring guy.
 
All I know of Jay Hanlon came from The Welcome Wagon™.
 
And? What you think of it?
 
Jay worked here for 6 years, and was a user for years before that. He did a lot of things
 
7:38 PM
Even coffee? ;)
!!/coffee Jay
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard brews a cup of Cappuccino for @Jay
 
This message is horrible. It will self destruct in 100000, 99999
 
@M.A.R. I expect to see this deleted in 27.777778 hours
 
@Shog9 I'm sure he did. I'm just saying I was only exposed to him through the narrow lens of the the WW debacle.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard yes
 
7:48 PM
Canon lens
 
@mag at some point in your life, you'll get the chance to help some randomo who's got no connections.
 
@M.A.R. womp
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW That angle looks like my former history teacher.
 
@M.A.R. lol ok :D
 
. . . Oh holy crap
 
7:49 PM
@djsmiley2k-CoW wouldn't mag be the connection?
 
No, I'm not your teacher.
@canon lol yeah maybe, but maybe not
 
@canon He always complains about his connection
 
I've.... recommended people for stuff, and they've hardly known who I was.
As God tells Bender, if you do it right, people don't know you've done anything at all.
 
@Shog9 think there's any chance of shuttering meta anytime in the near future?
 
sure
 
7:51 PM
Aaand there we go with canon puns every two minutes
 
I can't tell if that's deadpan snark or genuine, matter-of-fact delivery.
 
It's Shog. So something in between.
 
hah
 
it'll be a blast at least.
go out with a bang?
 
You only asked if there was a chance, not if it was likely.
 
7:53 PM
After all, it's a powder keg right now.
Shall i stop?
 
it would certainly solve a lot of problems
 
Like
 
This whole upset community that hangs out there would no longer have a place to vent
 
🧨🛢️
Whoops, dropped my powderkeg
 
@KevinB You forget one important location.
 
7:55 PM
twitter? eh, i doubt many would be willing to go that route
i wouldn't
 
Enough people with a lot of followers I guess. I wish I was being snarky but I'm not
Water finds a way. — Shog
 
@Shog9 Do you think that's a likely eventuality? I should have been more specific.
 
maybe it would result in people actually doing something about it rather than just complaining in a place that seems to be ignored anyway.
 
I have no idea
 
@KevinB as opposed to talking endlessly to like-minded people in a tidy little echo chamber?
 
7:58 PM
I know why meta sites were created. I don't know how many other people do.
 
@Shog9 Now I'm curious. Why were they created, if not for the obvious reason?
 
@Shog9 I doubt I know the real reason... but I suspect it was something along the lines of raising/resolving concrete issues with the software early on.
 
@Rubiksmoose what's the obvious reason?
 
All the murder
 
lol
 
8:02 PM
Meta was sposed to remove all teh needless comments on posts about the platform itself.
 
@Shog9 Er, dealing with site conflict and development?
 
In an extreme move of irony, meta then began to suggest users take their comments about the platforms and cookie cut comments for posts on main.
 
@Rubiksmoose That's not a reason that's a purpose
 
UserVoice was too expensive
 
lol
 
8:04 PM
Fair. So, rephrased, they were created because there were conflicts and developmental needs that mainsite was not equipped to handle?
 
yeah, but they were handling those on an offsite resource. Why was functionality migrated to Q&A?
 
It was equipped to handle it, but talking about the platform instead of the current problem you are solving is a time killer (ref: meta is murder)
 
@canon I don't know lol. I'd love to hear why.
 
I have a 12lb hammer. I use it for splitting wood, breaking lose rusted brake drums, driving stakes, etc. That is its purpose. But I have it because I needed to split wood and my 4lb hammer was no good for that. That is the reason.
 
What? So no one hammers nails anymore? Geez...
 
8:07 PM
> breaking lose rusted brake drums
oh boy I can seriously relate to that.
 
We have meta because otherwise y'all would have Twitter accounts. Or Reddit, HN, Discord, etc. Think about that.
 
Well, now you're going to get those too. :)
 
Reddit feedback shudders
 
Now behold the awful proliferation of redditcancer.
More like metastatic... amirite?!?!
 
@Shog9 Imagine if they had moved to an actual bug tracking system ;) shudders
Also whew was that a long time ago
 
mag
8:10 PM
closing meta doesnt cease meta talk
it just moves it to a venue SE doesnt control
 
Now... That was a good rationale in 2009. Is it still a good rationale today? Maybe the devs now enjoy fielding bug reports on Twitter. Maybe we care about what is said on the underbelly of Reddit. If so, then perhaps meta is no longer useful.
 
mag
only the devs can answer that one
but consider that even with everything going on MSE is still a marked improvement over a moderately heated twitter thread or any programming related subreddit
 
To me, sure. Some people actually enjoy Twitter.
 
@Shog9 Do you find that you're more, less, or about as engaged with the *meta community as you were 4 years ago?
 
mag
twitter is really tantalizing cause it paints a picture of a simple world without nuance, because nuance never fits into 140 char tweets
 
8:16 PM
@mag The limit was raised to 280 characters in 2017
 
mag
huh
doesn't feel more nuanced when I visit it though :/
 
It does not
 
It's precisely 2x the former nuance
 
I wish it was that much
 
The 140-character limit stems from the fact that Twitter wanted to make itself compatible with traditional SMS messaging, and that has a 160-character limit. 20 characters had to be reserved for the user ID and other stuff, leaving the remaining 140 for use.
 
8:29 PM
I wonder if ICQ is still around
hmm, it is
who is using that? :/
 
@canon it is still heavily used
 
Twitter has two uses. One, is the bane of rational though; the other can save lives. twitter rewards people who cannot actually produce rational thought. It is good for quips, for link sharing, for memes. All these things are the one use which is essentially what happens on standby. Standby twitter is junk. Immediate twitter on the other hand, such as allowing emergency personnel to share critical information to a large audience at the same minute they are experiencing issues, has saved lives.
 
mag
@Shog9 2x-10 = -20?
 
@Ro-ReinstateMonic-Alsop o.O
 
@mag 0.001
 
8:32 PM
lol
 
@canon I always disliked it, but I dislike Slack more. Discord much more. Twitter is a terrible pile of ****. WhatsApp ... has issues, as does Signal. Telegram is pretty sucky. Hangouts was always crud. Wire sucks battery life. Keybase does at least have proper encryption, so that's a thing.
Sad though it may seem, Stack Exchange chat is my favourite...
 
what, no IRC?
 
Y'know what was good?
 
bulletin boards?
 
reminiscing?
 
8:34 PM
Wave.
 
IRC - sucky
Trillian :-)
 
Trillian was good
I paid for it for years
 
I used that extensively for a bit - so as to not have to deal with all the other message apps
 
Even after that Winamp-style UI rewrite
 
it just worked (tm)
ahhh - winamp. Kids these days will never know the joys of a custom winamp reskinning
 
8:36 PM
Wave was rad.
 
...what was with every app in the early 2000s having to build their own theming lib?
And then doing a full on second system syndrome rewrite that made the theming engine suck?
 
@Shog9 I used Trillian too. Wrangling all of those chat providers (plus IRC) just massaged something deep in my pleasure center.
 
The "pain avoidance" center
 
or that
it was great to assign people meaningful aliases
instead of icepick44, bluesniper66, etc
 
Not gonna lie, my fav thing was carrying on a conversation where I cycled through all of a contact's services
2
Drove folks nuts
 
8:39 PM
hahah
msn, aim, gtalk
I'd do that to one particular person too
 

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