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19:00
@mag Caught between two factions that seemingly don't understand each other.
Or, unfortunately, seem to care about the other.
mag
mag
feels ... familiar
not in a good way
(that's not true in any form; but it can feel true if you're on either side of the problem)
like goverments and the people they rule over?
In this case, I guess the mods are the police, or militia....
5 hours ago, by Trasiva
I'd never attack Magisch, who attacks a cactus.
mag
mag
in this case though, it doesn't seem like SE has to give
19:01
@djsmiley2k-CoW I'm just a pretty red bird...
street cleaners
plumeau :D
but paid less
I used to have some cacti beside my alarm clock...
mag
mag
they'll go on, the mods who resigned will be replaced in the next election cycle, and the outrage fatigue will make this die down
for now
19:02
@GeorgeStocker This whole thing is a mess, and the frustrating thing is that SE Inc doesn't seem to have any intention of actually mending the existing bridge and are trying to build something new over the lake of fire. Yet are baffled why it's not working.
3
mag
mag
mending starts with a will
@mag eventually another site will spawn, some community wll move.
We'll all grow old. and reminis....
@Trasiva That's the surprising part for me. I know the people in charge and they are generally very empathetic and understanding of other people.
mag
mag
if you're convinced you're doing the right thing and the only people opposing you are undesirables, but you can't say that obviously, how would you act?
perhaps a tad too cynical from me
@Trasiva It's kinda hard mending the bridges if other people keep destroying stuff. So if everyone could leave the bridge alone and perhaps donate some building materials...
Right now, there's a bit of an surplus of heave duty demolition tools.
mag
mag
19:03
@Tinkeringbell The problem with that line is that the community isn't a bloc and not organized
to be honest I've not read a new meta post in about a week
@mag True :)
I've no idea if SE have made any more 'moves'
But there's a few of you all in here ;)
mag
mag
what, like 20?
tops
19:04
@Tinkeringbell The first trick would be, you know. Put out the existing bonfire seen from space.
@Trasiva I'm guessing that's being worked on pretty hard :)
@Tinkeringbell I'm not seeing much evidence unfortunately.
mag
mag
@Tinkeringbell I'm not convinced there's anyone who knows what would be needed right now
or rather, anyone in charge of approving courses of action
In fact, it seems more like gasoline is being thrown on by the truckload.
that's how you know it's working
19:06
@Trasiva does gasoline come in truckloads?
@Trasiva Meh, the reinstatement things arriving on time seems like a pretty beginning. The fact that moderators got input on that was nice too :)
@Bart You ever seen tankers?
@mag genuine heart felt words. Replies in less than 15 days?
@Tinkeringbell You mean the reinstatement process that doesn't take the community into account?
19:07
@Tinkeringbell hmmmm
mag
mag
@djsmiley2k-CoW refer to the qualifier
we're all viewing this from our perspective
David hasn't posted or commented once since his last post
That's coming up on two weeks.
@Trasiva 15 days...
if that was the 'sorry' post.
I just checked.
@Tinkeringbell Moderators were able to provide input. There's no indication any of that input was used.
@mag Running around like a headless chicken and acting on gut feeling worked for me once XD But there's stuff happening. While maybe no one knows how to make fire-fighting chemicals in this case, they at least seem to know how to fight a fire using sand/water...
19:08
And I never received any feedback on my input.
where's the reinstatment process btw?
The best way to kill a fire is to starve it of fuel.
@GeorgeStocker There was a lot of input. What kind of reply would you have wanted? "Sorry, no sorry?"
@Tinkeringbell Why ask for feedback if you aren't going to respond to it?
Goes back to "Don't ask questions you don't want answers to"
@GeorgeStocker Meh. I gave feedback on stuff a few times and it was used, I gave feedback a few times and it wasn't. Not everything can get a response, especially if you're busy.
19:10
It strikes me amusing that both things were posted on a Q&A site, rather than the blog
both were announcements really.
and both have seemingly (to unknowning me) ignored all the responses.
The blog seems to have moved in... other directions.
@GeorgeStocker To make you think your feedback is wanted? :/
@djsmiley2k-CoW Hint: blog doesn't allow people to give feedback or voice their opinion as much.
the Q&A site doesn't get broadcast the same way posting on the blog does.
mag
mag
the blog is 2 witty posts away from landing in my adblock filter
19:11
@Tinkeringbell you think people Wouldn't of made questions tho?
@Emilie Yes; and it works if you don't spend more than two seconds thinking about it
aka it doesn't get pushed out publicly to all who are following
Don't forget, it wasn't RFC - We are thinking of this new CoC.
@GeorgeStocker they did actually explicitly address your input with something like "useful suggestions from George, we're thinking about how to include them"
So at least not ignored outright?
@terdon That feedback hadn't gotten back to me before my access was cut.
19:12
@GeorgeStocker Might work with a lot of folks, stretch anything long enough and people will get fed up
So check the timestamps?
@djsmiley2k-CoW Maybe, maybe not... I'm not a CM, can't see what's going on there... But I guess 'answers' are a bit easier to gather if you provide the 'question' yourself. It does remove a certain barrier.
@GeorgeStocker I guessed as much
@Tinkeringbell hmmmm
we'll agree to disagree.
mag
mag
one side effect of this is if some of the resigned mods want their bit back now the current mods have an absolute veto on all returners
19:13
I'd go so far to bet, if they could post without it allowing answers, in the first instance they would of.
mag
mag
not sure if that's intended or a side effect
If they wanted that, they'd have used the blog.
@mag it's an amusing flaw.
They can disallow comments there.
i don't think they would have used the blog for something that points a spotlight on this situation
mag
mag
19:14
the blog is also targeted towards customers and investors
No, that they used meta is a good thing. After all, we've all been whining that they don't use it enough.
mag
mag
no company tells you why you shouldnt buy from them, which this would have been tantamount to
also that
.... *sigh* What happened to not discussing suspensions in public?
The question should be deleted. That's not something that should be being discussed in public.
I was going to write an answer
I think people took discussing demodding as an analogy.
19:16
But I'm flagging for deletion
I hold a minority view on this one. Only because it's on Meta.SE and it was likely a member of the SE Staff.
And with the current climate, sunshine is the best disinfectant.
So I'd rather SE handle it than us.
I doubt it was by staff.
I spoke with robert, he got a stock message and no explanation, so
6
We still don't discuss suspensions though
At least, not ask why like that
response incoming
3
19:18
It's that little smidgen of hope that keeps driving people forward @user58, and they keep looking and looking for reasons to prove or disprove their speculations on whether this is all worth it. We haven't yet internalized that it's something else that keeps people going, if they do.
Credit to anyone brave enough to put their name on a close vote
mag
mag
tactical shog deployed. landing in 3, 2, 1 ...
I did, I'm not scurd
I can answer that...
@M.A.R. no idea what this is replying to
19:19
@Tinkeringbell Better than I could. Thank you.
Oh god, the rapid vote storm
@user58 I'm explaining why people are doing this and bending long-established rules.
Here come the downvote fairies
now lock the post?
That was the weirdest +80 in my inbox ever...
mag
mag
19:20
every shadow is a ghost...
Because any other answer is going to be stupido.
that..... killed the chat eh
Everyone is busy refreshing the comment section
@M.A.R. ^
Poor comment section! Better chat here, better on the inbox :D
@Stevoisiak ^
19:26
@M.A.R. ^.^
@Tinkeringbell Now I'm gonna give constructive comments on every comment on your answer.
@all ^
you ruined my joke!
@Trasiva sigh... well. It's about bedtime anyway. I can just hit purge tomorrow morning.
@rene HAHAHAHA
@Tinkeringbell Hey, everyone's gotta feel like a Shog every once in a while
You'd be Shog26.
26 is a stupid number. And I thought the number was some sort of supply count, so the next one would be 8? To count down how many are left?
mag
mag
19:29
everyone knows shog is infinite
the numbers are to mask this fact
DROP TABLE comments; -- done with it
mag
mag
TRUNCATE TABLE comments; -- note to operator: run every half hour
my statement is a permanent solution
and repairs a design flaw
@rene Yours will break stuff. I don't know how 'permanent' you want your 'solution' to be...
@Tinkeringbell until the next mod election
19:31
> "next"
we'll become a true Q/A site, not a Q/A/C site
On MSE? Mods are appointed, not elected. I wonder if that'll ever change...
For general sites... might help. Though I'd recommend keeping them off even during elections.
@Tinkeringbell just apply fixes until all unit tests are green again
I doubt ._.
They do have unittests, right?
19:33
No clue.
(My current project shudders hasn't)
@rene Nah, go with a functional test. Gotta make sure comment clearing actually works :P
true that
@rene That would be a shame. I'm reminded of the Talmud which is literally just a curated Q/A with commentaries that's been going on for centuries. To even get your commentary printed there is considered quite an honor.
The whole thing is itself a commentary.
So you've got meta-commentaries. And then you've got the meta-meta-commentaries.
and yet it's still valuable
19:40
Then again, you're defining commentary in two different ways here.
I guess my point is that commentary can be just as valuable as the question and answer
if not more so in some cases
One is the SE sense, as in... internet comments; whereas the example you chose is more of an elucidation and going deeper into topics. Which is technically within the purview of SE comments but in practice... that's not what's happening.
mag
mag
error: recursive meta loop detected.
(Side note: It's hard to figure out how to pronounce stuff in Aramaic.)
it gets worse when the people teaching have a Brooklyn accent
19:46
at least you have a teacher?
I don't actually, I had tutors for when I did the whole Bar/Bat Mitzvah thing, and they only teach you the prayers not how to really read it or pronounce it.
Ah, I see. Most of those are in Hebrew, though, not Aramaic, no?
There are a couple in Aramaic, but... vast majority of the prayers aren't.
The vast majority of the daily prayers? They're Aramaic last I checked.
The kaddishes definitely are
pretty sure most of the other daily prayers are too
Nope.
The kaddishes, yes, but almost nothing else.
Sorry to drop in like that, but could anyone with the "see deleted answer" privilege can tell me why "Pizza lord" is thanking me here? It has bugging me all day and I absolutely can't remember what was their answer and what was my comment ^^'
19:53
There's a part in Aramaic said whenever they read the Torah before taking it out of the Ark.
But offhand I can't remember any other Aramaic in the daily prayers, and... I say them daily. ;)
I rarely pray
If you're not that familiar with either Aramaic or Hebrew it can be hard to tell the difference at a glance.
@BelovedFool It was asking why the duck picture may be offensive, your answer is meta.stackexchange.com/questions/334900/… there
@Tinkeringbell So, "Pizza lord" wrotted a meta question about this specific answer? Or are we missunderstanding each other?
@BelovedFool A now deleted comment that you seem to have responded to without pinging them ;)
I'm not sure who is leaving half threads of comments behind.
Maybe it was community flagging :)
19:59
@Tinkeringbell Well, this just proves that my memory is terrible. I was certain I was responding to the answerer x)
boop
hello how are you
people
we're fine.
@BelovedFool Smoke detector might be a bit overloaded
mag
mag
okayish
Good :)
And you?
mag
mag
20:04
doh! a blue parrot
@BelovedFool a new answer got added, it then scans all answers on the question again.
@mag ... Someone is pulling my tail :(
mag
mag
parrots don't have tails
@rene sounds inefficient
@rene Does that mean that this specific answer was reported twice?
mag
mag
20:05
smke detector is a cobbled together daisy-chain of regexes
@mag Oh?
That's a new bit of information I haven't heard before...
@BelovedFool An edit is made to the post, a new answer is posted etc. that pushes the post to the front of SE's realtime tab at SE.com, and Smokey scans it whole, and reports any problems no matter how old. In this case, there has been a new answer 10 minutes ago.
Posts have been reported for human eyes that have been years old.
@mag I think Smokey takes offense, you sack of chemicals.
@M.A.R. Hum, that sounds a bit inefficient, but ok
@BelovedFool Nah, it mostly doesn't break unless it breaks.
@M.A.R. Like any chatbot then :p
20:08
And some of those old posts have been spam
@user58 Kaddish is Aramaic and said several times per service.
Oh, lag between transcript load and live-chat load. Never mind; already covered.
@M.A.R. it sounds like it could be structured much more efficiently. i'm not sure how but maybe we should start thinking about revamping Sm
@BelovedFool I believe chat's code has mutated so much that if we leave it be, it'd form the first silicon-based lifeform on Earth.
hello
Hi
@Gwideon I don't think it needs to be any more efficient, if that's the word
Leave hell enough alone
20:10
@Gwideon Hello :)
readies to dive into hell
🚽
@KevinB Exactly precisely.
@Gwideon I think I might dive into bed soon.
With an extra blanket, it should just be as warm :)
@Gwideon its code is on Github: github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector and the team does take Pull Requets.
20:12
if performance can be improved by optimizing SM then I say we do it. sorry just my thoughts.
@Tinkeringbell tempting, tempting
But I have to study
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
okay I'll do that and see if anything can be done
@Gwideon Sure, I'm no coder. You should talk to Charcoal
@M.A.R. Oh, I'm so glad those days are over... I can now get away with 6-8 days of 'training' each year and call it done! :D
@Tinkeringbell (╯T_T)╯︵ ┻━┻
20:14
@Gwideon it does take a lot of CPU if it is on an under powered box so I suspect there is a bottleneck somewhere. But I'm not a Python dev so no clue where to start.
But if it's actually enjoyable, I don't mind it
Even bedtime stories like human anatomy can be really interesting
hmm maybe.
I wanna use some jargon too.
@M.A.R. please do
@M.A.R. I love how the facial expression of your smiley have shift-off xD
20:16
@rene If the gauche conformation is the best position for ring inversion to happen, then SN2 substitution in these particular cases is worth studying. But I'm not a chemist so no clue.
sounds plausible
Do you concur
yes
so sometime today the better apology post tipped over into the negatives
Good. Grabs a chainsaw
20:17
@AndrasDeak double negative is a plus
-.-
GUYS WE'RE ALMOST FORGETTING ABOUT INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY!
I'm not certain Curiosity landing on Mars got all these updates
okay... night :P
The day when . . .
Stephen Hawking's caps lock key broke?
I dunno, it just feels weird.
Do we have an International Weird Feelings day
Or is that Valentine's
20:20
Time to take a crash course in python
@Tinkeringbell I am celebrating caps lock day. I've just been holding shift whenever I need to type lowercase
@Gwideon Bracing for impact
@Stevoisiak cOOL
hahaha
@Tinkeringbell I actually had a feature request today to UPPERCASE all content in a input field
(IBAN input field)
@Shog9 By you or someone else?
20:39
bleh, purging people from the git org never feels good
you get to find out who's no longer a co-worker
@GeorgeStocker well, clearly not me
um sorry if this is dumb but um how do people feel about block programming such a scratch.
@Gwideon Nice to learn. Does not really scale up even to medium scale programs.
@Tinkeringbell great the COBOL folks invaded
mag
mag
scratch is very nice for learners
it can instill a sense and feeling for the logic of programs and the right mindset
20:52
true. I like using it when I want to code but I don't want to deal with annoying things like syntax and that sort of thing
it's nice to just make something and not have to deal with serious debugging
sorry I'll shut up
@ArtOfCode Thanks
Oh, @ArtOfCode. I was corrected by my team member. He's from near Cambridge.
There's a good neutral accent for you
Don't worry, he's still got that dry humour down to the last tea leaf.
21:06
Did I imagine it or did someone from SE leave a comment that they were writing up a draft to address this question? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/…
Errr
concidering one mod, could technically ban another mod for 'very long time'
I don't remember seeing anything there
what's the point of removing them xD
I don't think one mod can ban another by themselves
That would result in rogue mods having entirely too much power.
I will say this, I definitely don't envy Shog's role right now.
We need some cleanup on meta.stackexchange.com/a/336075/311080, possibly have the dude put in time out
I'm running out of flags
21:41
aaaand breathe
breathing is overrated
🍪🥛 time
@djsmiley2k-CoW actually don't think we can
Or no one tested it for science yet
22:01
@KevinB You seem biased, ax
I am 100% biased
user384163
@KevinB screenshotted to use against you any time I ever disagree with you.
user384163
Ever.
Rob
Rob
Asked and answered already. They can unsuspend themselves, so a CM would need to remove the diamond for it to be effective. Also there's a duration limit, whether that constitutes "a long time" is a matter of opinion (and irrelevant).
user384163
/s
22:10
@Trasiva I know that a mod can unilaterally suspend himself and also remove the suspension while being suspended since I've seen it happen. No idea about suspending other mods. Saw it on July 2017.
@JoseAntonioDuraOlmos A mod can simply suspend any other mod. That doesn't do anything really, as the diamond overrides almost any permissions check.
22:30
So my statement still stands. A mod cannot directly cut the legs out from another mod. There's still protections in place.
22:50
unless of course the mod deserves it
 
1 hour later…
23:52
What is the content, briefly, of this answer? I don’t have 10K
It was linked in an answer to the question about Robert Harvey
I'm not sure if it is worth to dig that even further. (And I don't have 10k either.)
There is an ill-advised answer there that appears to attempt to paraphrase the content of that answer.
No idea if the paraphrasing is actually accurate, of course.
I wish I had 10K on a site other than Politics, The Least Interesting Site to Have 10K On™
(Mainly because most of the deleted stuff is just political rants)
I have 10k and no, it's not worth digging further
I fear I'll have 10k too before this is over.
First time I haven't been pleased to approach 10k :(
I've seen it because I'm a wizard, but it's not worth digging into

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