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12:00 AM
I was gonna make soup today and the wife talked me out of it.
I shoulda went with soup
 
Oh, this was out of a can, but good enough
 
ya know what else? A nice cuppa at the end of a long cold day
 
There's many fine things in the world ;p
 
Did that today - was in work from 0830, outside in the cold all day, got to about 1730 and I went and got a cuppa for the last half hour
 
 
1 hour later…
1:31 AM
@NullUserExceptionอ_อ Y'know, honestly I don't understand why people are thinking that SE is asking them to do something difficult and they're going to get banned if they make a mistake.
The FAQ says, "Only in extreme cases of repeated requests to change, will it lead to a mod message or suspension."
I don't see how you get a climbing wall out of that.
Unless you're assuming that when the FAQ says that "only in extreme cases" will people be suspended, what it actually means is that suspensions will be handed out like popcorn.
 
@TannerSwett I get why people are thinking that though. It is a knee-jerk reaction to the way Monica was removed. No one knows what happened but there is a lot of assumption that she made one tiny mistake and was ban hammered immediately.
 
and if a trusted mod is banned and smeared in the press that fast, then what hope do us mere mortals have?
5
 
In which case... why are you complaining about what the FAQ says, if the thing that you're complaining about is not something the FAQ says?
 
She wasn't suspended.
 
Right.
 
1:36 AM
She was demodded. An act I am not going to defend but I will say does not imply any expectation on how you will be treated.
 
Man, looking back, it would have been wise for SE to wait a couple months before announcing the COC chance.
Let people's anger calm down before re-angering them.
 
Honestly, I think a company should be able to choose who volunteers for them and to cut ties with someone if they feel that values are out of alignment. I also feel like if that person is prominent and they do it in a less than tactful manner then they have every reason to expect the community to turn on them.
Do NOT take that to mean I think that they should have.
@TannerSwett Yeah I have been wondering about that.
I don't think it would have been better. Once news got out that Monica was fired over possible changes everyone was making up their own CoC.
It was worse.
The CoC itself is way softer than the things people were making up.
 
I guess the reason I'm not angry about Monica's situation is that SE is a private company and they have the right to do what the heck ever.
I think it's interesting how the Pronominal Proposal was much more positively received even though it says almost exactly the same thing.
The reason I'm not angry about the pronoun FAQ is that I think it's not a bad idea. :D
 
@TannerSwett But the community got to have a voice on it. That was part of the problem too. People want to feel heard.
 
I probably wouldn't enact a similar policy if it were up to me... but I'd think about it. Maybe I would.
 
1:44 AM
I have an obvious side in this issue
 
2:30 AM
@TannerSwett Its not what you say - its how and when you say it
I don't think lots of people are against the pronoun proposals in general.
Its just... messy on the whole
 
im really confused about chat
do all SE sites have a chat?
 
@Nacht in theory?
Yup
there's 3 chat servers, and most sites should have a main chatroom
 
i can never find links to them
 
ah
How did you find this? ;p
 
typed chat.meta.stackexchange.com in the browser
:P
so i can find the chat.stackoverflow.com works
 
2:40 AM
and then chat.stackexchange.com
 
Everywhere but MSE and SO are on chat.stackexchange.com
 
that only shows for the one im on
oh ok
on for the love of... chat.stackexchange.com is blocked for corporate proxy! lol
 
rofl
Can't help ya there
 
but not this one??
but why isnt there a chat link on the main home pages of each SE site
 
lol IDK. Maybe your network admin dosen't know about here
There used to be
Ages ago
 
2:42 AM
oh. i suppose something went wrong with it then
 
there is...
 
Was removed in a redesign. Its one of those things folks didn't quite get I guess.
there have been a few talks of killing off chat, even by board members. I hope it dosen't happen :/
 
aww
 
2:44 AM
aha, i see! thanks @AGirlHasNoName
 
NOOOO dont kill chat
 
i would love to use it more often but unfortauntely i tend to get sucked in to chatrooms and get very distracted from my work
which you know what i am just realising i really should be at a meeting right now... bye and thanks
 
@AGirlHasNoName Its a hill I'm pretty happy to die on, so to speak.
Killing chat essentially would rip out the heart of the community IMO
 
I agree
I have probably spent more time in chat than on the main sites
 
It would hurt the most engaged users
 
Nat
3:33 AM
Chat's pretty nice in seeing folks more relaxed.
Well, @SmokeDetector being the exception. What's with you and your smoke-detection-warnings, eh, @SmokeDetector?!
 
@Nat how else would we get free flags? ;p
 
How dare you say I'm relaxed /s
 
Nat
@JourneymanGeek Hah, touche! Gotta go for the gold, right?
Heh StackExchange is my relaxation. Save for the recent Meta drama, this place is pretty fun.
 
@Nat I fully agree with you there
I've been coming here for years for a reason.
 
@Nat that's true lol
 
Nat
3:40 AM
I think I got sucked into some of the sites by noticing that someone was wrong on teh interwebs. Like, my first SE.Physics answer was in response to noticing someone got like +60 votes for giving a fake explanation of how pizza warmed up in a microwave... which was an injustice that HAD to be corrected. And then I guess I kinda just stuck around.
 
I came here as a self-learner. I'm not very well educated, so I have been spending my life trying to make up for that.
 
Nat
Didn't really get that one worked out, though. I mean, they never fixed their explanation, even though it was pretty trivial to prove that it was wrong. I guess the lure of like +500 rep must've been enough for them to not want to delete, heh.
@AGirlHasNoName Self-learning's really the best way to go!
School's great 'cause it gives you a baseline to work off of, plus credentials. But a lot of things are best self-learned, school or no.
 
@Nat free internet points will do that.
 
Most people don't really go back over their posts unless they're really engaged
 
Nat
Silly part is that I allowed myself to get involved here after I ran away from being a mod on another corner of the web because I needed to make more time for work. Ah, the interwebs.. you're an amazing distraction....
 
3:46 AM
It is ;p
 
Nat
...and my jealous kittens, one of whom is actively licking my face in a bid to get me to pay less attention to the magic light box and more to her.
She has short little legs, a calico pattern, and is so freakin' adorable that I can't even be anything less than warmed by her cuteness.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:50 AM
43 messages moved to Chimney
 
6:08 AM
morning
 
\o
 
7:04 AM
So early in the morning and already a Godwin point. People might want to keep on eyes on this question. It's nice and (mostly) quiet for now, but it might not stay like that
 
@BelovedFool the answer and both questions are by mods so...
I think it has eyes aplenty
 
eye spy a post
 
@Shog9 "right on the edge" > I don't know where you think the edges are...
Morning :)
 
@Tinkeringbell well you were indignant when I called you a blue parrot
 
@Magisch True. But then that's over the edge, not right on the edge? :P
 
7:52 AM
Every time I see the word "Stackers" I associate it with the Dutch word stakkers ...
 
@rene Ever heard of a stackers box?
(I have one, is awesome)
 
8:08 AM
@rene I have literally never heard that one before
 
8:23 AM
I might have heard of it, but by a different name.
 
speaking of making mountains out of molehills: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/390632/…
 
@Magisch 10/10 good troll.
"Crispy Bacon" as username... I mean. Duh.
 
I mean the comment was unfriendly
not a reason to make a grand stand, call everyone who upvoted it a bigot and demand the removal of martijn though
 
Yea, but 25/2? I'm not buying it.
 
People on SO can be pretty condescending though.
 
8:30 AM
And people in general get offender way too friggin easily.
 
Yes, that was somewhat overly sensitive. But then again, if I was chastised for not knowing the square root of 348, then I'd feel somewhat put down as well.
 
like I said, it is a bit unfriendly, but not something to make a case out of
 
@Snow I don't think the square root can be compared to dividing something by 2.
18.6547581062, by the way
Like, duh :D
 
I would need a paper, a pen and more then 3 minutes to find that out without a calculator
having all these tools made me bad at manual math
 
I've never even learned doing that manually..
 
8:43 AM
there's an approximation method where each iteration produces another decimal point of the actual result. I don't remember exactly how to do it anymore though
 
user194636
@Cerbrus Half right ;)
 
@194636 wut?
 
user194636
@Cerbrus The other root is -18.6547581062
 
...
Yea, true
 
8:47 AM
Well, I didn't really mean that as being a realistic question, but I could ask a programming question and get the question itself wildly wrong and be chastised for that.
 
afaik SO is working on reducing that
 
That's not what that question was about though
 
@Snow Depends on how hard it is to google the problem. Nobody should be put down for asking a crap question, but we also expect askers to try finding the answer before offloading the work to free consultants.
 
OP was demanding that moderator got de-modded over it.
 
it's kind of a function of default human behavior. If you review close votes on SO for instance, you might see 30+ questions getting it wildly wrong every day. Your tolerance for that kind of diminishes as a consequence
 
8:51 AM
He's just stirring up s**t
 
@Cerbrus I don't think blatant trolling deserves our attention at this point
 
Exactly
 
@Cerbrus tbh, and this might be FUD over reality, I could actually see them doing that if this gets a big enough resonance. Or at least issue a warning
 
That guy has 50k rep and cant divide 25 by two? Gimme a break.
 
9:29 AM
@Cerbrus Seriously? Come on, some people can't do math.
I mean sure, the meta post might seem like an overeaction, but if you have some sort of learning disability that makes it very hard for you to do this sort of thing, I can certainly see why that could have been hurtful.
 
They're gonna have trouble sharing their apples with a friend then.
 
Yes. I'm sure they will.
 
But no, I'm not buying it.
 
@Cerbrus More practially: It means that sometimes, and 18 year old will let an 11/12 year old handle buying candy because they can't figure out if they have enough money or get the correct change back.
 
It's not really useful to harp on the believability of someone's disability. The whole thing is a red herring
 
9:35 AM
Calling it a disability is not okay, in the first place.
 
it might be discalculia, you dont know that
 
user194636
arithmetically challenged?
 
@Cerbrus I've known a professional scientist, actually the PhD adviser of a friend of mine, who used a calculator to divide by ten. This person apparently didn't know how to move a decimal! And they're a university professor in a STEM field.
 
Dyscalculia is difficulty in learning or comprehending arithmetic, such as difficulty in understanding numbers, learning how to manipulate numbers, performing mathematical calculations and learning facts in mathematics. It is sometimes informally known as "math dyslexia", though this can be misleading as it is a different condition.Dyscalculia can occur in people from across the whole IQ range, along with difficulties with time, measurement, and spatial reasoning. Estimates of the prevalence of dyscalculia range between 3 and 6% of the population. In 2015, it was established that 11% of children...
 
Anyhow... Now we're the ones making mountains out of molehills :P
 
9:37 AM
Like I said the whole thing is a red herring
this is a case of apologize lightly and move on
 
I prefer my herrings edible
 
@terdon Fire them immediately o.O
Dang
 
at least it's not surströmming
 
salted, or pickled :D
No unions though.
 
@Cerbrus I wish. This person was a huge asshole, and an idiot in more ways than one. But if the math issue were the only problem, that would have been fine. I'm also crap at math and I have a PhD in a STEM field. When I need to do math, I collaborate with the mathematicians down the hall.
 
9:38 AM
@Tinkeringbell Oh yes!
 
@terdon you don't need to be able to do arithmetic to be a research mathematician either
 
Yep
 
I'm not great in math, and I work as a programmer. I frequently have to break out paper and a calc app to find efficiencies and calculate small things
 
@Cerbrus We.. had a guy in 5VWO who apparently never had a herring before. So we went to eat fish, and when he asked us how to eat it... we told him to start at the tail end. Imagine someone holding a herring in two hands, almost biting the tail :P
 
... how on earth
Was he born in the NL?
 
9:40 AM
Hmm. I don't know that I've ever had a herring either, actually.
 
@terdon Come to the Netherlands, and have one. (A fresh one...)
It's the best.
 
@Tinkeringbell 5VWO?
 
I don't generally like fish
 
I'll probably have to :) I know Mediterranean fish, mostly, and we don't have herring.
 
@OrangeDog 5th year of the educational track towards University.
 
9:41 AM
@OrangeDog "5" is the year, "VWO" is a type of education
 
Ah, I was getting hits for gene sequences
> Ornithine aminotransferase inactivated by (1R,3S,4S)-3-amino-4-fluorocyclopentane-1-carboxylic acid (FCP)
 
Voorbereidend wetenschappelijk onderwijs (VWO, meaning "preparatory scientific education" in Dutch) is the highest variant in the secondary educational system of the Netherlands, attended by approximately a fifth of all Dutch high school students. After leaving primary or elementary school students are enrolled in different types of secondary schools, according to their academic ability. The course is a six-year course and successful completion allows the candidate admission to Dutch universities. The VWO is therefore a matriculation exam. The VWO includes the so-called Gymnasium variant, which...
 
@Cerbrus Yep. Just a bit of a 'kluns'.
 
A little bit "Wereldvreemd"...
But did he like it?
 
That too :) I kinda wonder what became of him, last I heard he was doing not so great :|
@Cerbrus Yep :)
 
9:44 AM
@Tinkeringbell Another one converted :P
 
Oh noes! A spam
That's been a while...
 
Charcoal already triggered on that :P
 
Oh, of course it did. Nothing is faster than Charcoal ;)
I do wonder when they'll switch to renewable energy sources though.
 
I mean, charcoal grows on trees
 
it is the quintessential renewable energy source
 
Let's start WindMill instead?
 
Yea, but then my "FIRE" userscript there needs to be renamed...
 
be honest, you came up with the acronym first and then sought words to actualize it on that one
 
@Cerbrus Yeah, fire and windmills still makes me shudder :(
 
9:55 AM
@Magisch Yea, well, no... Yea I did xD
 
 
2 hours later…
11:28 AM
This service provider has some nerve
their system fails and has downtime and now they want to charge us 75€/15 min for a technician to look at it
it's their system
we pay them every month to provide this service
 
is there a userscript to filter out or dim (50% transparency) unwanted notifications in the inbox?
or anything that can be adapted into such a userscript
I'm not a userscriptician and what I'll make might look horrendous to an experienced javascripter, but I might try and someone might be mildly disturbed by my attempts :s
 
iirc the notifications are marked as read whenever you load them, so a userscript would face a sort of uphill battle
 
How would the script know what notifications to dim out?
 
I suppose the userscript would have to keep tabs on the last notification read (or all of them in case one is gone and then it's impossible to figure out which other ones were ...)
you know what, this is starting to sound a lot like my work
a lot of cases to consider
...and for those reasons, I'm out!
 
Yea, it's not simple :P
 
11:40 AM
@Cerbrus this part is relatively easy - you click on the checkbox that says "notify me about replies to this post" to untick it, like on Reddit
 
@user1306322 So the userscript would have to store that somewhere.
 
but then you'd have to keep all the ignored post IDs in a place they won't be lost, so I suppose a simple userscript is not gonna cut it, gonna have to use a full-fledged extension
 
Oh I don't really know reddit notifications
 
I think I heard userscripts have like 40 kilobytes of storage or something? idk could be bogus info
 
A userscript could store them in localstorage, but that'd be per-site...
 
11:41 AM
@Cerbrus me neither but I've seen the gui options
 
So you'd still get SE notifications on Stack Overflow
So yes, an extension would be necessary... Or an external service where you can save the settings.
 
I don't have an account but I use RES for extensibility and to hide crap subreddits from my sight, and it is an extension, and I had a problem where my pc was getting too slow to handle all the 2700 filtered subreddits for a while...
 
2700? Geez
 
I just browse the /popular or /all but filter anything I don't want to see, so I never miss out on new subreddits, but the ones I dislike are forever hidden
so yea, that's a lot of sports, politics and city-related subs
and cats and memes and cars...
 
I've only ever used reddit to check some games out...
 
11:44 AM
the list is extensive :p
 
Factorio, Terraria, stuff like that.
 
have you seen Mindustry?
 
I've seen a YouTuber play it, but i was like 75% asleep by then
 
I suppose it's like a primitive factorio
 
I'm having way too much fun with actual factorio at the moment
 
11:45 AM
I couldn't get into Factorio coz of that art style
 
Haven't played in a year or so...
So now there's all kinds of new stuff :D
 
and to be honest neither of these games feel like fun to me, it's like an obsessive chore I have to complete, and when I'm done the feeling is weird and not something I can recommend
 
They updated a lot of graphics in the last few updates. When did you last see it, @user1306322?
 
I'm looking at the steam store page right now
not loving the realisticy but still kinda poorly lit 3d rendered sprite graphics
I feel like with a different art style it could be more attractive
have you seen They Are Billions?
 
I think the art is part of the charm.
I have yes
 
11:50 AM
I can undestand the appeal of the aesthetic but it's just neither here nor there for me, especially in combination with the genre
 
But that isn't as involved as factorio is
 
it's not quite starcraft and it's far from minimalistic color palette art styles
yea different elements come together to form a game I'm not currently in the mood to enjoy :p
at another point in life maybe
 
Hmm, I've got too much of a backlog of games any way xD
Just don't seem to have the time any more
 
12:18 PM
πάντα's question was deleted. I think I remember it with a positive score, so I guess it was deleted by a mod / cm? was there a problem?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier If you mean the question I think you mean, at best is was a duplicate of several others. At worst it was a troll stirring up controversy. It said dictate, which is arguably rude/abusive.
 
"dictate": lay down authoritatively; prescribe.
 
"say or read aloud (words to be typed, written down, or recorded on tape)."
 
Words describe actions. That's the way it's felt by people. But I guess since they're not transgender the way they feel is subject to second guessing?
2
Without the snark: it's a gigantic stretch that dictate is rude.
 
In the the context, dictate does not have the neutral meaning of "dictating a letter". It has the connotations of dictators and being authoritarian, unreasonable, and oppressive. Given the history of the 20th century, those are certainly not nice connotations.
 
12:30 PM
Most posts about folks who disagree with the CoC (I mean those that really do not want to use gender neutral terms) are certainly not nice.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier i.stack.imgur.com/7D9oI.png i.stack.imgur.com/yzn7Y.png <-- screenshots for <10k. My guess is it started attracting flags and wasn't deemed worth keeping
 
@Raedwald Let's say hypothetically, that SE was actually starting to act in a authoritative manner, that would near that of dictators, and then they started to delete posts that said so, because they were not being nice enough. How would one point out, then, that SE was being so?
Differently put, if what is defended here is the right to say "you're allowed to disagree within these strict confines" from SE, it's... generally a sad approach.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier It's always been like that. You're allowed to disagree, but you have to be nice.
(always being a little over 2 years, I wasn't here before)
 
:) Yeah, I don't think I want to say, or defend, a place where we can just say anything we want under the cover of "but I'm voicing my disagreement, let me speak!!!11111"
 
12:39 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Okay, that sounds much better :D
 
that's not my goal, or desire. But seeing the general activities of the last few weeks, and the general lack of clarity upon whose feelings should be upheld as the Truth™, and whose feelings are allowed to simply be discarded as trolling, I start to wonder.
 
To me you're all trolls
 
As long as I get to have neon-pink hair, I'm good :)
 
Fine with me
 
12:40 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Feelings are... harder to discard than behavior though. You can still manifest your feelings on some matter without doing so using behaviors that are classic for trolls ;)
 
now, for my truly offensive comment of the day: I just created a pizza that lives fully inside a pineapple. What you gonna do now @user58?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier is it under the sea?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Spongebob isn't pizza, please don't eat him.
 
@Bart I should just try... It'd probably give grandma a heart attack and hurry up that inheritance :P
 
:D
 
12:42 PM
only upsides
 
@JourneymanGeek Along the other sea animals, in the octopuses garden? :)
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW Now I'm imagining a pizza topped with sponges... the ones you use for cleaning :P
 
I see Bob is now Alex
 
@Tinkeringbell nom..
 
I sighed heavily
 
12:43 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier In concrete
 
ohhhh, that took me a while
@Tinkeringbell They're also notably a complicated thing.. and words generally fall short of their sophistication, when trying to materialize them in words
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'll be honest and say it can be a struggle but you're better off doing your best to reserve your energy for things that matter. Also the linked article is worth a read... but slightly NSFW language.
 
@Mgetz That's such a wonderful book :)
 
omg that cat
 
@Tinkeringbell never actually read the whole thing... I really should. But whenever I'm having a bad day I read that article to remind myself to shift my perspective
 
12:51 PM
Yep! It's a good read for when you're feeling bad ;)
 
@Mgetz I'm Tim, and I can confirm I don't give a ...
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW it's important to give the correct ____ rather than none
 
^ That. Not giving any at all is just as bad.
 
hence, subtle :P
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Indeed And it's extra tricky on MSE at the moment with so many people sensitized by recent events. Trying to discuss the pronoun thing without accidentally upsetting or offending someone is possible, but very difficult. Like tap-dancing in a nitroglycerin factory. ;)
 
12:56 PM
This discussion just reminded me of a nice bit by a Dutch comedian... Sorry English fold, no subtitles
 
@PM2Ring that is probably safe insofar as you don't do it on the stock
 
YouTube's Automated captions are hilarious though
 
we lost the TOO_LOCALIZED flag right?
 
@Cerbrus That's always a great song! :D
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier years ago
 
12:57 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Years ago.
 
I think that was lost years ago. I've never seen it.
 
:snap:
 
@PM2Ring Bonus points for the capital Y and period at the end though ;)
 
Yeah. I was trying to funny. Like, too localize the hell out of Cerbrus's comment.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier With the amount of Dutch people in this room? Fat chance...
 
12:59 PM
Which reminds me, wait there are Dutch comedians?
 
Pretty good ones, actually.
 

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