Tavern on the Meta

Oded

11:00

Jeff & Joel are gone. There are a few people around from back then, but... no one in the positions of power is listening.

And I am talking about the company here, not the community.

Andras Deak

Frankly it sucks seeing former employees react to this and the animated ads and stuff. Feels like it really is a brave new era.

Oded

Promises were made

... to be broken.

Shadow

Brave?? Won't call it like that.

Journeyman Geek

And honestly I can't blame the current batch for all the problems

I'd love to 😁😁😁😁

Oded

Brave new world, eh?

Need to go read that book again.

Journeyman Geek

11:01

@Oded uhm

What can be done about that?

Andras Deak

@Shadow see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

Shadow

oh

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek by us? Probably nothing

Oded

@JourneymanGeek apart from what you have been doing? Not much. And I don't believe that a mass mod exodus will change anything - things are fundementaly broken.

Andras Deak

:/

Oded

11:03

The people in charge are no longer people who believe in the mission that Jeff had. Or the background Joel has - and his understanding of the developer community at large.

6

Journeyman Geek

@Oded no

But there's literally nothing else we can do

Oded

I do think it will take time for things to change if that does happen.

Journeyman Geek

A significant part of the issue is people feel powerless

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek because they are

Oded

Both in the community and the company.

Shadow

11:05

I'm afraid premium membership is closer than ever. That's the only thing that can save SE, financially, and now that they have no obligations to ancient rules made by long gone managers, they have nothing to stop them.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded I don't know how that can be fixed

Andras Deak

@Shadow nah, that's what the ruined front page is for

Oded

@Shadow It's called teams :P

Shadow

@AndrasDeak Not enough

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak the front page dosen't matter

Shadow

11:06

@Oded if Teams was a success they wouldn't be allowing the evil ads. I think.

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek sometimes things are just broken and stay that way. Relationships come to mind.

Journeyman Geek

The cc 4.0 dosen't matter

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek shows intent

Oded

@JourneymanGeek nor do I. If mods go, trash will accumulate. In time, they will see that it is not sustainable. But only if most mods stop modding.

Journeyman Geek

Trust matters

Oded

11:06

@Shadow you underestimate VC greed.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded yeah

Shadow

hmm

Oded

@JourneymanGeek and it will take time. Months.

Shadow

Still, I have a feeling Teams isn't giving them the money they need.

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek and that shows how out of touch they are with the community

Oded

11:07

I have no insight into the company financials.

Andras Deak

@Shadow they changed the pricing model recently...

Shadow

@AndrasDeak yeah saw something too.

Andras Deak

Could be both a good and a bad sign

Oded

If there was a way to estimate the number of teams, you'd have an idea.

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak yup

Andras Deak

11:08

It's free for small teams...so probably a bad sign

user194636

Teams generates easy ongoing cash, with a lock-in, and no moderation overhead.
To sell the most Teams to the most people, SO needs to be seen to be a place for everyone.
All else is detail.

Oded

Anyhow - I need to go get lunch. Laters

Journeyman Geek

And that's where we need to start

Andras Deak

@Oded have a good one :)

Shadow

@JourneymanGeek in lunch?

;)

Journeyman Geek

11:11

@Shadow by getting in touch with the community

Shadow

@Paul and that's the core mistake. Same way nothing can be 100% perfect, it's impossible to have a place that treats everyone equally. If you treat one section better, other section will be mistreated.

Journeyman Geek

I think folks in the CM team know what I feel lol

Shadow

Some must compromise. and that's what they failed to see.

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow uhm

I disagree

So I had a talk about this with folks in my community

And well we are not the most PC bunch

Andras Deak

@Shadow fallacy. It could treat everyone equally badly

You can treat everyone fairly

user194636

11:13

@Shadow Maybe, maybe not. Depends whether you see it as a zero-sum or not. It is possible SO see the traditional Q & A model as saturated - little prospect for growth. To grow, they need different groups to participate more than they have in the past. These groups might include coding beginners, for example.

Journeyman Geek

@PaulWhite and yet the experience folks have is shaped by who we have now

I gained a lot from the kindness and patience of more experienced users

user194636

@JourneymanGeek To a large extent, yes. But "who we have now" can change, and change at different rates.

Journeyman Geek

That's true

user194636

Ultimately, if all one is interested in is volume, it makes little sense to pay much attention to a tiny group on meta, or volunteer mods.

user194636

I have no idea whether any of that is true. It is plausible to me. They will never state such strategy publicly of course.

user194636

11:19

My perception is that Teams rescued a business model that was teetering on the brink of collapse.

user194636

And there's a reason Teams is only integrated with SO. That's where everyone is.

Journeyman Geek

@PaulWhite sigh

That's kinda what the old marketing team felt as well I suspect

user194636

I don't mean to sound cynical, if I do. I am attempting to be realistic.

Journeyman Geek

And got us into this mess

@PaulWhite honestly if I cannot believe smaller sites and meta matters... I'm done

Shadow

@PaulWhite reality is cynical. ;)

Journeyman Geek

11:23

There is nothing left for me here

user194636

Oh I'm sure SO prefer to have the wider network, just so long as it doesn't cost too much, or cause too much trouble.

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek matters to us. Meta explicitly doesn't matter to them

Something something chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/196949?m=46856145#46856145

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak meta is pointless if all we do is tilt at windmills

user194636

TPTB regard meta as unrepresentative and unconstructive. They may be right.

Andras Deak

Ugh

Journeyman Geek

11:25

@AndrasDeak I am aware of that. But changing viewpoints is hard and needs patience

user194636

If a company engages data scientists and private research programmes, why would they listen to meta over those inputs?

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek it also needs openness, an intent of wanting to change

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak assume good intent?

Andras Deak

If hypothetically they are dead set on their views nothing matters

user194636

Tim has stated as much.

Journeyman Geek

11:26

I don't think Sara wants this place to burn to the ground

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek good intent doesn't include humility

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak it does not

Shadow

@JourneymanGeek really?

Journeyman Geek

Yes

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek and I heard they wanted to shut meta down and only CMs' please prevented that

Journeyman Geek

11:28

@Shadow everyone here is acting as they feel is best.

user194636

Why would a Director of Public Q & A want to see Public Q & A burn to the ground?

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow folks are overwhelmed

user194636

Sunsetting meta would not surprise me in the least.
The company would simply provide something "better".

Andras Deak

They have good intent. Toward the "oppressed". If your premise is "meta is toxic, just like April said" then good intent doesn't cover catering to the wants of the sealions

JNat

:7940432 Sorry, that was a misclick :\

Andras Deak

11:29

@PaulWhite not Q&A. Meta.

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak uhm

Andras Deak

Yes?

user194636

@AndrasDeak Oh right then see my "sunsetting" comment.

Journeyman Geek

Even April is doing what she feels is right

Which is why attacking her is dumb

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek my point exactly. Good intent.

Shadow

11:30

@JNat ouch it stings ;)

Journeyman Geek

And here in hurting others we hurt ourselves

Andras Deak

Nah, I'm good

user194636

One can still mess things up rather badly with good intentions.

Shadow

Well, I can totally see a "Sorry to see you go" blog post after they shut down MSE and all meta sites.

Journeyman Geek

It is

Andras Deak

11:31

To be clear it's not about April, nor Sara. It's about a mindset on which they seem to be.

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow and that's something that we need to work to prevent

Shadow

@PaulWhite not the Q&A sites, just the meta sites where people can complain or disagree with the company decisions.

2

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak and yet...

Andras Deak

And yet it's easier to explain the mindset this way.

Journeyman Geek

By taking this line encourage both the intolerant and those who hate us

Andras Deak

11:33

I don't tolerate intolerance, and those who hate us can't be pushed further away. We're deep in alea iacta est territory

Journeyman Geek

Imagine if someone said how toxic we were

Shadow

Toxic is so 2018

Journeyman Geek

And all the voices replying disagreed 😁

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek *when

user194636

@Shadow Certainly, which is why I said SO would likely sell the death of meta as a positive. A better feedback mechanism open to everyone, and refreshingly private.

Journeyman Geek

11:35

That moment has not come

@PaulWhite I would have no say there

Andras Deak

@PaulWhite *"the murder of meta" (how meta)

user194636

@JourneymanGeek You'd have exactly as much say as everyone else 😀

Shadow

@PaulWhite they'll keep the contact us open, so people can still report bugs or ask for urgent things to be done.

user194636

I would expect an exciting programme of outreach using multiple media formats. Or somesuch.

John Dvorak

The best irony would be if Contact Us got overrun with homework dumps as a result of meta closing down.

Shadow

11:37

You know what... after some thought... in the current state of things.... I would not be surprised a bit if they shut down all meta sites including MSE.

user194636

For sure.

Shadow

@JohnDvorak surely many people will do it on purpose as revenge, but it's just childish.

Those who read the emails and have to handle them are not the problem.

user194636

There will be no shortage of internal people and external consultancies telling SO how they can gather genuinely useful feedback much more effectively than meta.

3

Journeyman Geek

@PaulWhite and nowhere to say it 😆

user194636

@JourneymanGeek Jeff Atwood has a solution for that, I hear

Journeyman Geek

11:43

@PaulWhite uservoice? 😁😁😁😁

user194636

ha!

Shadow

Twitter, duh

Journeyman Geek

Controversial option. People have a rose tinted view of the Atwood era

user194636

I don't think that's terribly controversial. Can't argue with the success though.

user194636

Name SO's main competitors.

Andras Deak

11:45

@JourneymanGeek Probably. And boundary conditions were different.

John Dvorak

@PaulWhite quora

user194636

@JohnDvorak LMAO

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek and yet...

user194636

Seriously I can't breathe

Shadow

@PaulWhite freelance programmers for hire

John Dvorak

11:46

Yahoo Answers

user194636

dies

John Dvorak

the hyphen site, maybe?

user194636

I understood that referecne

Shadow

thumbs up

user58

→ 8 messages moved to Chimney

Andras Deak

11:57

you tried ;)

user58

There's a bit of a spam wave at the moment, so there might be bit of smoke in here.

Andras Deak

I didn't notice

John Dvorak

Smokey is delayed by 30 minutes due to chat rate limit

JNat

I'm trying to see what can be done, FYI

John Dvorak

Not sure how the 15-minute intentional delay into this room interacts with the unintentional one

JNat

12:00

about this spam flood, that is

John Dvorak

@JNat thanks

Andras Deak

@JNat and here I thought you were going to fix the other issue ;)

JNat

singlehandedly, yes ;)

Andras Deak

the best way!

user58

@JNat We believe in you...

Journeyman Geek

12:21

Oo

rene

→ 2 messages moved to Chimney

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

→ 1 message moved to Chimney

really need to practice more with the manual move list, sorry

Machavity

@rene Need to get Makyen to write you a userscript ;)

Oded

@PaulWhite becuase data driven is quantitative, not qualitative.

It can tell you something will drive more traffic, but not tell if the user experience will be nicer.

Andras Deak

it can tell you if something is 1.2 welcoming

Magisch

Imo the tech industry is in a bit of a data driven craze right now

Oded

12:31

@AndrasDeak No. It can tell you that 20% more traffic/people are coming, but it doesn't tell you how welcome they feel when they are on the site.

user194636

smokey in here

user194636

(yes I know, spam wave)

Oded

One lesson I did learn from my years at SO is - popular != good

user194636

popular as in meta reception? or?

Andras Deak

not necessarily

the company has been working based on "popular for external viewers", in any case

rene

12:34

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

user194636

many things have changed quite fundamentally in a short period of time

user194636

plus ça change

rene

given the fact that there always is resistance to change ...

Mgetz

@PaulWhite not really, we're just acknowledging them now

user194636

I'm just stating my perception

Mgetz

12:42

My perception is one long rooted in seeing an attitude towards the userbase that's existed for a long time. This is just the first time it's hit a wider section of the network

Andras Deak

@rene most people would've supported the change for being nicer, if it hadn't kicked off with that blog post

(and then followed down exactly along it)

and the remaining people who wouldn't have supported it; well, they were the problem

Mgetz

@Shadow I've said this for awhile, they could effectively have something just as effective with a FAQ curated by the CMs/Mods

@AndrasDeak They were the existing users, the high rep experts that the site depended on in many cases.

Bart

12:58

Wait ... there is an @Oded in here? What year is this?

rene

@AndrasDeak maybe the strategy is to shake-off some participants?

Anne Daunted

@Oded That's so true! I've read arguments that it's wiser to stay silent and I agree - but that's just one point of view. But it would be the right thing to do (a real reply, not just some canned messages like the ones a staff member copy-pasted) and show that at least somewhat care about the people making SE worth visiting, even if it got downvoted into oblivion. And because it is the right thing to do, I doubt they will respond, opting to sit it out instead.

Andras Deak

@rene but their aim is way off...

Mgetz

@rene As best I can tell that seems to be entirely the intention. Or at least to get them to change behavior away from what the site taught them to do originally.

Andras Deak

@Mgetz you're probably misreading me

Mgetz

13:00

@AndrasDeak no I'm providing a viewpoint that isn't necessarily obvious if you haven't had a longer term look at the problem

Andras Deak

Okay

Anne Daunted

@rene No, not even that. I doubt they consider any volunteer important enough to actively want to get rid off them. We are interchangeable. One leaves, others come here. Doesn't matter. The only exception would be Jon Skeet...

john

@rene thought about that a couple days ago, but didn't dare to write. :/

rene

well, I formulated it as a question on purpose as I can only guess as much as anyone else can.

Journeyman Geek

@AnneDaunted honestly staying silent is just as bad

There is no 'easy' solution

Mgetz

13:06

@john ditto, trying to ask that as a meta question will just come off as trying to be a troll. So I haven't bothered.

user351483

I think there's enough Meta questions now.

Andras Deak

No way they'd answer that. Nobody would and should.

Shadow

@Mgetz FAQ can't accept bug reports, which is crucial part of the meta sites.

Mgetz

@Shadow create a separate JIRA/Bugzilla etc. Or just have a submit bug button.

john

@Mgetz I don't mind being considered a troll, but I don't want to bring more gasoline to the fire.

rene

13:07

@AnneDaunted could be. It can be economical to optimize for short and high throughput instead of long and slow refresh rates.

john

(But that doesn't mean I don't have a bit of fun in watching this mess).

Oded

@AnneDaunted staying quite invites speculation. And that's not good for anyone.

@Bart 👋🏼

Anne Daunted

@Oded I still guess that's their strategy. They just wait until we forget about it or the upset people left.

Oded

For a company that claims to care about people (improve the lives of developers), that's not a great attitude.

user194636

@rene I think it's more likely acceptable collateral damage

Oded

13:16

@john 🍿

Andras Deak

well specifically this shitstorm reeks of "if you dare defy us you'll be shown the door"

Anne Daunted

I guess their vision for SO is to become some kind of debugging help until it becomes so useless that no one cares about it. In the future, when an SO question shows up in your search results, you will have learned by then that it doesn't contain useful advice, but is just another guy having forgotten a curly brace.

Shadow

@AndrasDeak correction: "you'll be forced out"

user194636

yesterday, by ArtOfCode

Simplified: "I think us doing something, in a way that was going to cause backlash, has violated people's expectations. We did it anyway, and that's significant. We're sticking by our actions, and that's also significant. When people take significant actions [like the one Aza took] we want them to be able to see that we've responded in the best way possible."

rene

it is a power game and a community has a lot of power but not the ultimate power. That is for the company. Now you're not supposed to use that power but once you do there is no way back. Do note that you can never exercise that power again. That is what brought us here.

Andras Deak

13:22

@Shadow "shown the door" is just euphemism for "forced out", yes?

Anne Daunted

@rene It needn't and shouldn't be a power game. They haven't understood that such a community is an asset not an obstacle.

Andras Deak

No, they love the community. They just don't think any of the community channels represent the community.

user194636

by the same token, parts of the community that don't act like an asset (over a period time) aren't really an asset at all

Andras Deak

and they don't obey the community in any way, including feature requests, but that's nothing new

rene

@AnneDaunted I beg to differ. They haven't understood ... SE is an Anglo-American business. I yet have to see a business / management that don't assume they have the ultimate power in the end.

Shadow

13:27

@AndrasDeak oh. Well, I'd imagine it more as "pushed out gently". ;)

rene

@AndrasDeak yeah, I think that is a fair analysis and that is something we can only blame ourselves for.

Anne Daunted

@rene I'm not disputing that they have the power (or don't assume that).

Andras Deak

@rene meh

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak language!

Also uhm

So there's different ways to deal with conflict

I often find folks are often a lot more confrontational in some cultures than others

And our concepts of what sort of power matters varies

Mgetz

@AnneDaunted I think they are frustrated the community has become an obstacle instead of changing to meet their needs and desires. To me this is because they haven't been clear on what they really want from a high level vision perspective. This is something we've been asking for now for years.

3

Anne Daunted

13:38

@Mgetz I agree. And I guess they aren't clear because they themselves have no clue which way to go. But I'm not sure the community is that much of an obstacle. Furthermore, they play(ed) their part by treating the community they did and do.

Let's take the relicensing, for example. They suddenly announce that change. Instead, they could have informed the community beforehand and even gotten feedback. For sure, they could ignore it and make the change anyway, but they could also profit from feedback. The way they did it didn't really make the community shut up about it, did it? It was rather the opposite...

Oded

blog.codinghorror.com/…

2

Dated 03 Feb 2012

Catija

Hi @Oded :)

Oded

👋🏼

user351483

Asking for feedback implies that the community has an input into the change. But asking if there's any questions up-front doesn't neccessarly imply the same thing. As in "Here's an upcoming change, do you folks have questions about it before we put it in place?"

john

there's someone in Spanish.SE vandalizing their own answers :/

user351483

13:45

@Oded The irony of the next blog post: "Farewell Stack Exchange"

john

21

A: Would you use "llamarse" for an animal's name?

Self deleting a bad answer. Of course you can

Bart

@AnneDaunted can you show me any change announced in any sort of way, which made the community go "Ah, well, we have nothing to say on that" ... ;)

Catija

@Snow It's a subtle distinction... yes... but sometimes asking the right questions helps the authors come to a realization that there's some confusion about the change that they need to clear up before the change is made. In that sense, asking if there are questions can lead to substantial change in what is released.

Bart

@john moderators are already aware of it. And it's pointless anyway. Rollbacks are their future :D

user351483

@Catija Yes, and prepares people for that change, and helps them understand it.

john

13:48

@Bart I proposed it (rollback) before pasting here :D

Mgetz

@AnneDaunted ironically I think this is a bad example, they incurred this issue by making a mistake on the site and linking to the wrong license. The change was IMHO dictated by lawyers rather than anything intentional.

john

Ah, is this person pissed off by this stuff.

Shadow

@john the one who reported deleted answer?

Anne Daunted

@Oded Must've been a completely different site back then with Jeff. They made huge steps backward since then.

john

@Shadow Aye, I read the nickname matching.

Shadow

13:52

Rage quit in 3... 2... 1...

Well the answer did contain abusive language, but wasn't undeleted even after it was edited out, so dunno.

Guess it's now too late anyway. /cc @JNat

Oded

@AnneDaunted to an extent. I never worked with him, but hearng about him - he wasn't pleasant to work with...

Shadow

I assume he at least responded to feedback, even if by shouting and yelling at you. ;)

Steven M. Vascellaro

My favorite response has been "This is why you don't deploy changes on a Friday"

Shadow

"This change sucks! How dare you suggest it!1!!!!" goes to make the change

Anne Daunted

@Shadow It seems that the new staff also responds to feedback - by firing volunteers.

Shadow

13:56

hehe it's not common to see you being so sarcastic, @Anne

Oded

And sulking.

john

@Shadow I didn't read it carefully but smelled quite a bit like a passive agressive blatant request for moderation.

Shadow

The shitstorm appears to reach far and high.

@john there was "screw yourself" in the answer, that's enough for a red flag, on any site.

Issue is: 1) It was added later by other user, and 2) It was edited out and yet answer was not undeleted.

john

Was too large to read it completely, but I found a few things to fix. That's the thing in posts that large. :)

Steven M. Vascellaro

I feel bad for any SE employees who came back from vacation this week.

Shadow

13:58

That's what I read, at least.

JNat

@Shadow the Spanish mods had pinged me a few minutes back. But thanks

Shadow

@JNat cheers, counting on your decisions.

Catija

@Snow Change is a complicated ball of yarn to unroll. For some people, they'll poke at it and only make it into a snarled mess. For others, they can unroll it into a beautiful sweater by intentionally knotting it in special ways. Most of us are somewhere in the middle.

410

Knitting does look like a good solution to the problem.

More of SE users should take it up.

Bart

Where is @Tinkeringbell when you need her to knit or crochet?

Shadow

14:04

Being a rather small parrot, I hope she wasn't sucked into the shitstorm and stuck inside... :(

She has lots of inner power though, so I don't worry. :D

Anne Daunted

@410 Either that or just sit back and keep watching as SE turns more and more into Yahoo Answers with a cooler name.

Bart

@Shadow "Look, that individual has been tarred and feathered ... wait a minute ... that's not tar ..."

Shadow

tar is black

@Tink with glowing power ^

Machavity

@Shadow Ah, a neon genesis for Tink

Shadow

:)

410

14:07

@AnneDaunted That's boring. There surely are better ways to use the newly available free time Me, I'm way more up to date on motor sports than I was a year ago.

Shadow

@AnneDaunted it won't be Yahoo Answers! until it will have 6000-8000 questions with same title and same answers.

410

And the reading list is moving along faster.

john

click if you like roleplaying, read comments

Shadow

14:38

Smokey, are you also going to take a break from reporting spam, to make a point?

Mgetz

@Shadow I'd be interested to see if someone can put together a duped question query that collapses all the dupes down by parent (potentially recursively) to see what questions on SO are duped the most. My guess is this is probably it

Shadow

That would add spam right into the shitstorm, making it even more yucky.

Mgetz

Ok only ~2700 direct dupes

Shadow

@Mgetz still, the volume of dupes on Yahoo! Answers is terrible. Small example from their non programming section: once visited their Health section. 90% of the questions were the same, though with somewhat different title. That made me realize I have nothing to do there.

Mgetz

@Shadow Oh I believe it, I suspect the dupe count is probably higher on another question but it's hard to know guess as I'm not good at SEDE. Also those are probably only questions closed as exact dupe not near dupe

Machavity

14:43

@Mgetz C++: Boy, we have a lot of undefined reference dupes. Java: Hold my beer

Shadow

@Mgetz but note they're closed. On Yahoo, they're all open, and all getting whole new, similar, answers.

That's order vs. chaos

Mgetz

@Shadow better question: is closing a question for a new user as duplicate hostile?

Shadow

(quality aside)

john

@Mgetz "parse error" sounds like as common as "undefined reference"

Shadow

@Mgetz not at all

It's basic moderation act.

Mgetz

14:44

@Shadow Check the hacker news thread, a LOT of complaints about it.

Shadow

@Mgetz too bad. That's really basic. That's like house cleaning. If people want to reach a dirty place that's their problem.

Issue is whether all the dupe closures are correct or not. That I can't know.

Mgetz

@Shadow so this gets back to the core issue of "What type of site does SE (and thus SO) want to be?"

Bart

@Shadow You disappoint me. I thought you knew all

Mgetz

@Shadow anecdotally they're all wrong

Shadow

Maybe a better Reopen review is in order, to make those who oppose dupe closure feel better.

@Mgetz these days? Site that makes money first, and nothing else matters.

In the olden days? Site for serious Q&A.

user351483

14:48

Stack humour award for the day

Mgetz

@Shadow Yet another reason I think SE should largely (but not completely) transition to a foundation model

john

@Snow more nonsense

user351483

Sometimes humour helps.

user351483

At least to dispel some tension.

Mgetz

@john The reporters name is wrong it should be "Tom Cruise"

john

14:54

@Mgetz I don't get that :/

Mgetz

The Minority Report

"The Minority Report" is a 1956 science fiction short story by American writer Philip K. Dick, first published in Fantastic Universe. In a future society, three mutants foresee all crime before it occurs. Plugged into a great machine, these "precogs" allow a division of the police called Precrime to arrest suspects before they can commit any actual crimes. When the head of Precrime, John Anderton, is himself predicted to murder a man whom he has never met, Anderton is convinced a great conspiracy is afoot. The story reflects many of Philip K. Dick's personal Cold War anxieties, particularl...

john

ah ya, ya. :D

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz hmm depends on what they want

Do they want to ask a question or get an answer?

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek in my experience they want debugging help, not to know that there is a generic solution

balpha

Hey there, it's been a while! Anything interesting happening in the world of SE? 😬

2

Journeyman Geek

15:04

@balpha nope

user351483

Business as usual.

Machavity

@balpha Nothing at all. it's totally quiet. No community-wide disasters ongoing or anything. Why do you ask?

Optimus Prime

balpha isn't blue? since when

balpha

@OptimusPrime six months

Machavity

@OptimusPrime He quit before quitting was cool

3

Optimus Prime

15:18

looks like SE doesn't use dns entry for subdomains, instead redirect [a-z0-9]+.se.com to se.com -> $1

whateverimputtingherereloadsacustomerrorpage.stackexchange.com

rene

probably handled by the ha-proxy

user351483

Huh. So Writing.SE becomes the second site with no active moderators.

Optimus Prime

never heard of it before. But got it

410

Cyn's resignation message is worth reading it's a bit different from most.

3

user351483

15:33

Oh my. That's a big stick to shake.

Kevin B

meh

user351483

Awesome. Comments on TWP are going into melt-down. Usually we shove comments into chatrooms and delete them. No comment->chat operations have happened since we all stepped down. And TWP generates a hell of a lot of comments.

john

-1

Q: An Update to our Community and an Apology

Friends, Last week we made an important decision for our community. We removed a moderator for repeatedly violating our existing Code of Conduct and being unwilling to accept our CM’s repeated requests to change the behavior. We recognize it has caused concern in the community as a whole. We mad...

3

410

15:50

Oh, so we are friends? Since when?

Optimus Prime

I've been logged out automatically. Don't know what happened

Bart

Am I mistaken in thinking the moderator in question did not repeatedly violate the CoC, but instead repeatedly questioned a CoC not yet in effect?

22

^ serious question btw. The post confuses me on what I thought actually happened.

410

I hear there's a transcript of TL.

Machavity

@Bart If you are then I'm in the same boat

410

But if we leave that out, and weigh MC's word vs SC's word, I know which one carries more weight for me.

CalvT

15:57

@410 Shog said that it was very selective, so doesn't tell the whole story. Also don't think we're supposed to mention that it exists...

user351483

Starting that post with "Friends" seems kinda wrong to me.

410

Maybe it's addressed to the family of Joe Friend.

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