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4:20 AM
23 messages moved to Chimney
@410 Posts all the way down?
Well until you hit the maximum length of a title...
 
 
2 hours later…
6:38 AM
7 messages moved to Chimney
 
6:50 AM
The air is so clean...
 
7:12 AM
looks out window
IF ONLY
 
7:28 AM
The heir is so clean
 
For now
MWAHAHAHAHA
 
7:41 AM
The hair is... not so clean. *goes to take a shower*
 
 
3 hours later…
10:24 AM
That can't be. Not a single off topic question in MSE?!
@M.A.R. tell that to the princess
Transformation Completed! Now I feel like a true Coffee. :P
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard wait, I'll ask one ...
 
:D
unleashing the dog and the parrot on flower
 
Yesterday I was super excited to get an rce on firebase, after 10-15 mins, realised it is executing in docker container in G Cloud. 😣
 
10:59 AM
@OptimusPrime I understood most of that
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard it's the weekend 😁
 
@JourneymanGeek spammers spam 24/7
No? ;)
Oh wait
I was talking about OT
lol
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard OT
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard It's John Dvorak's fault.
 
Smokey never sleeps
 
11:03 AM
Yup
 
they are out of OT
 
11:18 AM
OT are out of OT
eating cake
 
11:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek well. I mean I was able to execute arbitrary code as root (in firebase). But later I realised that firebase uses Google Cloud and G Cloud uses docker container. So it's common.
 
@OptimusPrime hence me understanding.mkdy kg that
@OptimusPrime hence me understandin most of that
 
12:18 PM
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard CC @Princess
 
wow, r00...d?
 
@MetaAndrewT. Robots have no feelings
 
@M.A.R. late by few months
@Pri is no more
Long live @Oli! :D
@M.A.R. good one!
 
12:35 PM
only oil
well lube anyway.
creaks
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard Give me <insert time 'til cache update here> <insert time unit here>
 
@Aibobot too oily
 
there's dry lube!
For plastics I think
 
keeping silent
:D
@Oli oh... didn't see! Nice change.
 
Did I ever mention I hate caching?
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard Changed it after you pinged me ^^"
 
12:37 PM
disappointed that @Pri didn't become Coffee Princess
:P
@Olivia oh LOL
Thought @M.A.R. saw that and hence his reply
 
I've got a can of dry lube sitting next to me. I use it for my bike.
 
Bike. Yeah.
:-D
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard That'd have to be Olivia the Coffee Princess, which isn't pingable with @Princess
Maybe next month... :D
 
@Mithrandir well in the army we had the most disgusting stuff I've ever knew/saw/used.... called גריז. I don't get disgusted easily as you probably know but man.... I couldn't touch that awful thing! lol
It's kind of.... semi solid oil.
 
I only use the actual grease for like inside a suspension fork.
...in fact, I use it so rarely that I don't have any of my own.
 
12:40 PM
Lucky
 
oh
COSMOLINE!
 
Well if you'll be anywhere near tanks you'll know the term "לגרז פטמות", and it's really really not as sexy as it might sound. @Mithrandir :-O
 
meh that's fine ^
 
That's what I use for like my chains and stuff.
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard I have a feeling I'll be nowhere near tanks :P
...it's not cheap, this stuff, though. That bottle was 75NIS, and the solid grease is like a couple hundred for a much smaller bottle.
 
12:43 PM
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard the waxy stuff?
 
(And it's a real pain getting oil off your hands after cleaning a chain. I have to spend like ten minutes just scrubbing.)
 
@Aibobot no idea how to call it, maybe "black grease"? Found a pic though.
It sticks to your fingers
@Mithrandir like most oils.... :D
@Olivia did other people leave MSO/SO/SE? Except for Yve?
 
@Mithrandir use kerosene and it'll be a 10 second job
 
Kerosene for... what?
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard OH
Lithium grease
 
12:51 PM
@Mithrandir to remove oil or grease off your hands.
 
I don't tend to keep kerosene around much.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard our mechanics swore by some stuff called magma
had pumace in it
 
We always store kerosene. Hornets are quite regular here and kerosene is really helpful to destory hornets
The govt gave half a litre kerosene each month to every house as a part of ration. It started decades ago when most of the houses are non-electrified but they still continue providing it
*in India
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard Not officially
 
@Aibobot yeah might be
 
12:55 PM
I'm suspecting there's a second mod that has left (or he's at least considerably less visibly active, and has been since July)
 
@Olivia mod activity tends to vary a lot
 
Kerosene can be used to remove oil, tar, paint etc.
 
@Aibobot hehe well I wasn't a mechanic, that black grease was just common. Probably mechanics have much worse stuff. ;)
 
@Aibobot A highly active mod with near constant activity who drops off the map after SE changes the homepage and recommending people not to use SO?
Wouldn't call that a coincidence
 
12:57 PM
@Olivia that's significantly different
 
Yep.
 
None scheduled.
 
If overall users also dropped, no need to, yeah.
 
Well SO has a bit of buffer
 
1:02 PM
No one has been called up, the last election was in March
 
and if its the mod I think it is - its a little sudden
 
@Aibobot Not really
 
SE actions are sudden.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard actually mod-levels are a function of workload rather than absolute users
 
I wake up one morning and something major changed, lol
 
1:03 PM
@Olivia in terms of absolute numbers
 
In absolute numbers, sure.
But that's not really worth calling a buffer when you scale everything else
 
On a site that large, its going to be tricky scaling mods
 
The process speed on flags has dropped.
NAA handling used to be nearly instant, with usually next to nothing in the VLQ review queue. Mod flags took a few hours, and I probably haven't had a pending mod flag last days in a really long time. That has started happening again. It might be a combination of missing motivation, fewer mods, and a higher workload on meta, but it's still noticeable.
 
Mod Golden Age is over? :(
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard well, eh
 
1:07 PM
Probably.
 
there's a bunch of things that need working on
 
Along with that, there's also been an increase in rants on meta (at least the past week - that might continue, but it could also not) and meta conflicts.
 
Which meta?
MSO, I guess?
 
Oh?
 
MSO for me always was "that place where everyone rants", so....
:D
 
1:09 PM
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard yeah
 
But yeah, without knowing details, I'd say that when people are upset, and their rants get no response, they become more and more upset over time.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard on they other hand, when SO catched a cold, we have the flu
 
It's a self feeding fire.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard It has never been as bad as this in recent times.
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard They do get feedback, because they lash out at the community and mods
 
Probably the team got tired of putting off those rant fires.
 
1:10 PM
and/or*
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard They usually get closed when it's clear OP has no intention of discussing
 
@Olivia oh so that's new
 
Then it's deleted, and eventually undeleted and reopened by a mod :]
 
@Olivia honestly?
 
So yeah, we're not doing too well on any fronts. Neither is SE from the looks of things
 
A lot of stuff's just broken right now
 
1:13 PM
Nothing has changed
How can it be more broken?
Well, that's not true
The community's opinion of the way stuff is handled has gotten more heated and frustrated
 
@Olivia flashing ads!
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard I have so many ad blocker systems, it'll take a miracle for an ad to get through
 
@Olivia I'm a mod
I know how much more broken it can get
 
@Aibobot No you're a sock :D
 
1:15 PM
(well my alter ego is anyway!)
 
@Aibobot Diamondless mod?! HAX!! :P
 
@Olivia There's also been some stuff happening that regular users don't always see.
 
True
 
@Olivia lemme put it this way. If I'M gone
its basically either bad enough that even folks who're hardcore into the community lost hope
or I got hit by a truck
 
@Aibobot yeah, I don't think that serves as a valid indicator any more
 
1:17 PM
@Olivia well I still hope things can be fixed
and not just stuff I consider superficial like the CC version and even ads
 
At this point, it's individual. Hope isn't exactly in a large quantity. I'm running out of it myself, mainly because stuff is ignored
 
@Aibobot and flu?
 
Shog replied to the 3 CV experiment post when the results weren't out and someone asked. That's one of the reasons I still have some hope - not everyone ignores stuff.
 
@Olivia erf
so, the state of the community team is one of those things I'm unhappy about
and I voice out privately where appropriate
 
@Aibobot Yeah, me too. Is this new though?
Or is this another thing that has gotten worse?
 
1:22 PM
That's... hard to say.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard I am wise.
 
its kinda getting better
slowly
 
@M.A.R. but not old
 
That's a bonus.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard Eh, depends on how you define "old". ;)
 
1:24 PM
Young Yoda! Is it you? @M.A.R. ;)
 
@Mithrandir Isn't that over 20? :P
 
I can be so grumpy my skull fractures, so yeah
 
@M.A.R. can't be more than @Bart
 
@Mithrandir Suits me
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard @Bart's so grumpy what he's staring at fractures.
 
1:33 PM
@Olivia Its pretty old
Not something I want to complain about too publicly cause well, I do have an eye on the community team
 
that's fine ^^
Finally >.>
<--- @ShadowTheCoffeeWizard
 
@PrincessOlivia I actually think none of our current problems are "new"
 
might be. I haven't really been around for long enough to see the bigger picture
 
they're just old problems in different guises
 
Oh boy
I need to grab something to read before @Journey starts his old cowboy talk :p
 
1:42 PM
:D
 
So - one underlying issue is,well the need to find a profit center. Which lead to both that focus on careers over Q&A. Ads worked before and is easy - but having your own ads team is a lot more difficult than leveraging an external org
 
To be brutally honest, I can see the resemblance between Sam Elliot and Ash
 
Community ops is a bit of a black art
no one 'really' gets it, even sites that are "social"
look at facebook - and their attempts at getting a body to decide on whether content is acceptable, after moving it off to basically a sweatshop for ages
@M.A.R. if my longwindedness bothers you I can stop ;p
 
TBF Facebook is pretending not to be something it was built to be
 
Or get a room I guess
 
1:45 PM
SE's different
 
@M.A.R. well kinda
SE was built not as a social network, but with a very solid team handling the community
 
@Aibobot Everyone enjoys Sam Elliot rants. If they don't, they'd have to go through me. Hmm, that's a really weird thing to picture
 
I still would say they're good folks and I trust them
 
@Mithrandir TL is... weird...
 
On the other hand, early SO wasn't an... erm
 
1:47 PM
@PrincessOlivia cheers! :D
 
@MetaAndrewT. I'm going to hold off talking about those things here
 
@M.A.R. Who's Sam Elliot?
 
I'm tempted to say SO is sort of a cultural institution now
 
I have my own FB rant to make, but wasn't it initially designed to be a pickup platform? That's what I remember from the little sh!t that I gave about it
 
@Aibobot I won't say anything about that, or anything else
 
1:48 PM
@MetaAndrewT. thank you
 
"image not found"
 
@PrincessOlivia Big mustache, you can never really figure out what he's saying, and he's been a cowboy in more movies than I have hair.
I'm not bald, to be clear.
 
never heard of him
 
Because I'm not a university professor yet
 
1:49 PM
yep, no idea who that is
 
@M.A.R. what hair? :D
 
Isn't he on the John Oliver show?
 
Heir.
 
@M.A.R. honestly, people have trouble getting what I say in real life too...
 
Hair? Heir? Hair heir?
 
1:50 PM
Hare!
 
Heir air hair
 
Hair heir, air is in trouble
 
@MetaAndrewT. Hear!
 
"What's that boy? Little johnny is in the well" "No you forgot your wallet and are walking home"
 
28 mins ago, by M.A.R.
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard I am wise.
 
1:51 PM
anyway
all these are old problems
 
Well, when you got tongue at the tip of a word...
 
made worse by scale
 
I guess.
 
and stuff working well in a smaller org don't work well now
And some of the solutions involve specialisation - but that makes information sharing a lot harder
 
and probably SO looks worse because it's on the spotlight of the world. Nobody (really) cares if other SE sites have a moderation problem...
 
1:53 PM
@MetaAndrewT. oh not entirely true
and its not really moderation problems
most sites probably work pretty well on their own
If you think about it - we have had very few "problem" mods
and some of those actually, well
they had good intent and terrible execution
in a sense as far as individual sites go - our mod selection system seems sucessful?
Scaling? eh
SO has unique issues.
they're so much bigger and well, we donno how far horizontal scaling will work
 
@Aibobot Scaling is where it starts falling apart
 
@PrincessOlivia well that's kinda the interesting part
 
The system has probably worked at some point, but it hasn't been updated to handle scale it's used at
 
@PrincessOlivia well - I guess the question would be how
A moderator is a human exception handler
and well
 
Yeah, the how is the hard part
 
1:59 PM
not everyone's got the same moderation style (and diversity there is good) or preferences
on SU - I rely a lot on users feeding back through a lot of different ways to get things done
flags primarily but I also get feedback through some chatrooms
but a heavy part of my effectiveness is just presense
and that won't work as well on SO due to sheer size
SO has a few mechanisms that are designed to shift the load over to high rep users...
like the triage queue
 
Looks like someone is right that they need 30000 mods on SO...
 
but if even that gets overwhelming, things get fun
and the social aspect...
 
@MetaAndrewT. we definitely need more mods
30k is a bit overkill, but maybe 2-3 times as many as we currently have
At least
 
@PrincessOlivia you'd need to find and elect suitable people, teach them to be mods...
and there's inevitable conflicts of personality
 
2:09 PM
looks like that MSO post was rightfully deleted... couldn't find it anymore ¯(°_o)/¯
 
Which one?
 
forgot the title, but the one that OP claimed that it should be easy to find 1,000,000 new mods from all users of SO
 
410
^ closed questions on SO, by week
Back to normal after the experiment.
Lower the threshold to 2-3, and you get an equivalent of additional hundreds of mods, as far as closing is concerned.
 
@410 well, technicaly
mods shouldn't be relied on at all as the primary means for closing
 
#bring-back-the-three
 
410
2:18 PM
Imagine it being a dynamic threshold, where the "price" of question closing/reopening is determined by the current supply of questions and reviewers.
 
@MetaAndrewT. Do you remember when ti was?
 
@410 with would be nice but ... the code would be interesting
 
@410 too much chaos, and therefore too many support questions
 
@JohnDvorak well yes and no
no one is going to notice
 
in before "my question got closed with just two votes, but this broken window has five and it's still open"
 
410
2:20 PM
MetaSO didn't have a lot of questions "why is my post closed by 3 users" during the experiment.
 
no one's really going to check that hard
 
That is curious
 
410
In any case, SO appears to be considering not showing closer names at all.
 
410
Like it's done for reopens now.
 
2:21 PM
What now?
 
@410 I'm not sure about that personally
 
I'd go with showing only for users with more than X rep
 
410
@PrincessOlivia We don't get a notice "reopened by X, Y, Z" under a reopened question.
 
@410 And in the timeline?
 
No repro
 
410
2:22 PM
Of course, the revision history has all the info as it should.
 
@410 There has never been anything like that
 
@410 FR. Some of us curators want to have to shout at, too
 
@PrincessOlivia I believe 410 was referring to the not-so-recent blog about "post notice renewal"
 
410
Yes, my point exactly. Never had reopeners listed under a question, and it worked just fine.
 
@410 that's kinda noisy though
 
2:23 PM
Anyway if that's the direction they go, sooner or later the question score won't be visible as well.
 
@ShadowTheCoffeeWizard eww
Even quora has that
 
The rightvote?
Anyway, the recent users' self-deletion on MSO was quite staggering
 
410
? I remember only Tiny
Feature-request: a "self-immolation" button.
 
3:02 PM
@MetaAndrewT. ?
 
@MetaAndrewT. ?
 
!
Seriously, what staggering un-stagnation?
 
 
2 hours later…
410
5:15 PM
Just before experiment was over CV queue was under 4K, sometimes even under 3K. Reopen queue was not overwhelmed. Now two week after experiment ended CV queue is back on 7K or more. I don't need any other numbers to say experiment was successful. 3 close votes are better than 5. — Dalija Prasnikar 3 mins ago
Indeed, what other statistics could be used to decide whether the experiment was a success.
Were there any raging close-reopen wars?
 
5:28 PM
a couple, but nothing terribly shocking
That's what I'm looking at
 
Percentages of what?
Close or reopen votes?
 
Untouched cookies
 
Seems that's a good graph then :)
There's more pending :D
But only after the experiment ended so... bad experiment?
 
ah, that's close. I have reopen and edit aas well
@Tinkeringbell there's always more pending as you approach the current date
 
I guess the rest is either handled or aged away?
 
5:32 PM
most questions that will be closed get closed soon after the first vote. Those that don't... mostly sit around while the votes age away.
(the graph shows the "effectiveness" of the first vote or flag - whether or not it gets closed or reviewed as "Leave Open")
In the two weeks prior to the experiment, 37% of first close votes/flags were handled. In the 2nd and 3rd weeks of the experiment, 53% of first close votes/flags were handled.
 
Seems like an improvement.
Unless a large percentage of those were supposed to have remained open.
 
FWIW, there outrages weren't louder than usual.
3, 5, 15. It'd probably be the same for the majority of the people that complain.
Makes sense too, they're concerned, almost always, about a single isolated incident.
The number of those incidents wouldn't rise much more than what it already is.
 
5:48 PM
Close wars on SO. Experiment resulted in slight increase, but... Even so, still so rare as to be irrelevant.
 
The experiment is a resounding success confirmed, then
When do we get 3cvs back?
 
@Shog9 How would the data look like if close reviews only required two "Leave Open" reviews to dismiss from the queue, instead of three? (Assume a question wouldn't have been closed if the review task received the Close review corresponding to the final close vote after it had already received two Leave Open-s.)
 
I don't really care about that right now
Lowering the threshold for Leave Open is a good idea if we lower it for Close. But it's not gonna significantly change the overall efficacy
 
And if a site goes HR and implements binding close votes for all, I think it should be dropped down to just one review.
 
6:23 PM
My suggestion. 2 close votes from gold tag badge holders to close a question
 
410
In the past, weighted close votes (based on tag score/badges) were shot down because it'd be confusing to see questions closed by n users with variable n. But during the experiment, there were 3-, 4-, 5- user closures all the time, and nothing exploded.
 
The CVRQ did explode - after the experiment ended
 
410
It returned to the pre-experiment level, didn't it.
 
410
6:39 PM
Is "crème brûlée" a reasonably common spelling, or just an diacritics-stuffing trick?
 
I prefer the diacritic free "burnt custard"
 
as long as you don't stack em
 
čřěmě břůľěě
all on my keyboard
 
@410 I would say it is common where I live. But we have had the French "influences" due to them occupying the country in the 18th century
 
@Shog9 in that case "burnt cuſtard"
 
6:52 PM
@rene Ah yes, those were good times :)
 
@Loong just ad some umaluts and make it more metal
 
@JourneymanGeek This week I saw an animated hotel ad on travel.se "time to visit Germany" or so. And on the next picture: "Frankfürt".
 
And then another picture "Wien".
Vienna? Germany?
 
so Wien?
 
6:58 PM
"add" mistyped as "ad" by an MSE moderator. In time where ads are becoming more aggressive than we were promised they would ever be. Mere coincidence? I think not!
 
@JohnDvorak its 3 am and I've not had enough sleep
 
7:11 PM
kinda stuck at services section of my website. Anyone have any suggestion / recommendation on the design?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:42 PM
@JohnDvorak Hungry doggies eat many things; including, but not limited to apostrophes and d's.
 
9:08 PM
@M.A.R. and spammers
 

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