Tavern on the Meta - 2019-07-16

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Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

1:53 AM

@AnneDaunted Could you please reconsider your decision to delete this answer of yours? I think it's helpful and adds to the discussion, plus adds on new arguments not present in the question.

Especially considering that there's been no further update during the "first half of 2019" (as quoted in the official response), I think your answer would help the team know that the request is important.

SE Time is like Valve Time now...

(or "has been like ... since then")

and it seems recent dates pointed to Half-Life 3's release date...

4 hours later…

6:14 AM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog please stop nagging people more than once about things. I understand your point, but what you do might annoy those people. You already asked them here and got a response. I really doubt that asking again would bring any different result.

(Sorry if it's bit harsh, but such actions led you to be banned in the past, I want to prevent such a thing, that's all.)

1 hour later…

7:16 AM

@Mithrandir That's what I've been telling you This. Whole. Time.

Big time.

So that user was female... while this explains the "victim attitude" at some level, it's no excuse for the unfriendly comments and chat messages. </passing-thoughts>

@ShaWiz Who, Mith?

No way.

@ShaWiz this one? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/330913/…

@Marshmallow umm..... no? lol

@Marshmallow no way he's female? I know, he posted pictures of himself.

I think. With bikes.

@ShaWiz He does have an attitude but not sure it's victim

@Marshmallow "victim" is among the last words I'd use to describe our good (not old) friend @Mithrandir. ;)

7:32 AM

@ShaWiz stop killing me with anticipation. Is there some good drama that I missed?

Or am missing

@Marshmallow nope. Someone who is now suspended for a year, so guess we better not discuss this a lot further, I just posted something I thought about.

Gah.

Suspension is such a party pooper.

@Marshmallow nah.... that user was unfriendly towards me personally for some reason from the very beginning when they just joined the site and the chat, few months back.

So not much drama.

@ShaWiz To be fair, people being rude to you or vice versa is always a scene to watch

BRB buying cheese

@Marshmallow poop doesn't deserve such treatment, it's now offended. :P

Why pooper can't be a positive thing?? :D

7:35 AM

It's a positive thing if you're a plant.

@Marshmallow you only think they love poop, but they can't speak.

@ShaWiz "evil young friend"

@Mithrandir snicker right

@Mithrandir evil is even lower in that list. :D

He will rule Earth with threatening to do bike tricks on hostile territory

7:42 AM

At first I read that as "bite tricks". Got me interested.

He's too low-level to perform a vampire spell.

Nah, no life drain. Just the age-old neurotoxin + digestive enzyme mix. Not nearly as fast, but it makes better use of the vic... food item.

Fangs are so 1890.

. . . suits him

And if you aren't hungry, you skip the digestion bits, and instead you just paralyze them and then tie them up in your basement.

@Mithrandir you're more like neutral

7:47 AM

user image

Aww!

My apologies, I accidentally stepped on it.

@Tinkeringbell you monster

@Magisch Just be glad I didn't burn the whole room down with a not-a-flamethrower!

@JohnDvorak They always look like they're blowing raspberries.

@JohnDvorak yeah, the Secret Bite is something many want to know.

@Tinkeringbell but it's bigger than you, so you just ride it.

7:51 AM

Spiders usually stand still when they know you're looking at them.

@Magisch True Neutral?

Reminds me of Jurassic Park.

"Stay absolutely still. Its vision is based on movement."

@Marshmallow spider sense is awesome, Marvel used it in their new movie.

Looked up "spider mount". Wasn't disappointed.

rofl

7:53 AM

@ShaWiz OMG SPOILER

I find spiders the least detestable insects apart from bees and bumblebees

They work great as nature's cleanup crew

Meh, they're all right.

They aren't even insects

Fully agreed though

@Marshmallow nah

Found it! Spider Parrot!

user image

I'll give it two exceptions though: fiddlebacks and Sydney funnel-weavers. Those two in particular can die in a fire.

7:57 AM

@JohnDvorak where I live there are no really big or venomous spiders

which surely contributes to my stance. Everything spider I see here is guaranteed to be harmless and relatively small

Although having huntsmans here wouldn't hurt either. Let one live in your basement and never worry about bugs again

I've heard of a very recent fiddleback bite in the UK.

Huntsmen are a great choice

The UK? They only have Kingsmen.

@ShaWiz Poor thing!

8:14 AM

Slim Newton - Redback on the Toilet Seat

8:53 AM

lol

Google Translate translated the Russian "edit" as "to rule" and "flag" as "anxiety"

You had better be anxious when you're flagging something in Putin's language

1 hour later…

9:57 AM

59

A: Are animated ads on SO questions accepted?

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I work on the advertising team here at Stack Overflow. We have paused the animated placement on Stack Overflow for this campaign. We have also notified the advertiser that they need to update their creative to a static image before we resume this placeme...

@rene Deja vu

That word is badass. It must be Dutch or something.

ba dass?

Looks more German-y to me

@Marshmallow hehe. Coming soon: "Are porn ads on SO questions accepted?"

German is just written Dutch with more paperwork

@Marshmallow deja sounds French to me.

They stole it.

10:03 AM

...and I'm correct. (had no idea, really! ;))

I actually did know it's French

Because it has /ʒ/

But again, they stole it.

@JohnDvorak I call it anchovies.

@Marshmallow It doesn't really have a Dutch synonym (only a literal translation: Eerder gezien). The German word is awesome too though: Bekanntheitstäuschung

The more scientific Dutch word for it is paramnesie

Bekannstein-what

No, not stein... heits :P

Paramnesie sounds like an island in The Pacific

Oh that's Polynesia

Maybe a type of French bread then

10:12 AM

and that's not an island

Desserted island?

Dessert island seems yummy

user image

@ArtOfCode It's an island in spirit

@MetaAndrewT. It has a soily aftertaste

10:25 AM

@Marshmallow Crunchy, all that sand between your teeth :P

Journeyman Geek

→ 31 messages moved to Chimney

@Tinkeringbell giphy.com/gifs/cartoon-teeth-tom-and-jerry-dzZSHzPFh3Opi

@Marshmallow Poor Tom... the amount of dentist bills he had must've been staggering!

some people actually seem to think they can storm area 51

how to get ear damage from being exposed to a non lethal crowd control sound device 101

10:40 AM

@Magisch Slowpoke! :P

@Tinkeringbell I was under the impression it was just a meme

Area 51 is open to anyone though... at least if they have backing support

@Magisch It probably is, just like the 'eikenprocessierupswandelingen' events that are popping up on Dutch Facebook everywhere ;)

I can't possibly imagine anyone going to full frontal assault a heavily defended millitary research base where even if you breach the fence (lol, good luck), you'd be trecking across 18 miles of nevada desert in the blazing sun in september

@Magisch sounds fun actually

If you have a pair of good earphones and a nice playlist

And four gallons of water

10:48 AM

@Marshmallow Found the desert-dweller! :P That's no fun at all, waaaay too hot.

@Marshmallow déjà vu

I don't reckon they'd have to fire a single shot nobody is trekking across 18 miles of nevada desert in the late summer where it can get 45° easily

@rene `'⹂〝〞

They're waiting for the water cannon ...

Did you know that water can cut through frigging steel.

10:53 AM

Yeah if you make it a thin stream and pressurize it enough

Do NOT piss water off.

needs a specification for the steel for that to be particularly impressive :P

Heh.

@ArtOfCode Man of Steel

you can rip steel with your bare hands, as long as you don't specify what kind of steel

Yep, that's Man of Steel.

But he died fighting with Ethan Hunt.

Or Batman, dunno.

11:20 AM

@Magisch these days it's totally not needed. Just plant a malware in one of the senior staff phones, and you win the jackpot. Or even not senior, anyone who is inside that "heavily defended" base. ;)

do you think anyone in a top secret millitary base is allowed to
a) keep their phone on base or
b) has internet reception or
c) has internet at their workstation?

They have more strict security requirements then that in the central bank IT building where I briefly worked, and that isn't even the building where something actually sensitive happens

a) no but everyone do it anyway
b) of course, how else would they spend their time??
c) see b)

you underestimate security practices

I really hope so, but afraid I'm not.

even the one datacenter we went through made us go through a strong as hell magnet that would brick any phones on the way in

11:22 AM

The urge to play candy crush overrides any security concern.

:D

if you had metal in you for medical reasons you had to submit to invidiual deep inspection

@Magisch I'm 100% sure senior staff got a pass from all those checks.

(or magnets.)

I'm 100% sure thats not the case

This applies only for low level employees.

UR FACE IS SECURE

End of discussion.

Plot Twist: @Sha's current job involves bricking phones of people who wanted to bypass security.

Nice bait.

11:28 AM

Worse than brick them: install Mine Sweeper and force them to play.

user image

@Marshmallow I'd love it if it was...

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch the strictest security I have worked with was a casino

Uhh, is your data center a casino?

Journeyman Geek

12:14 PM

Nope

@JourneymanGeek is your casino a data center?

no

I guess Journeyman is still in the casino while his robot dog in the data center...

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog No need to worry :) I'm sure that everyone who needs to (and many more) can still see the answer.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@AnneDaunted Okay, I understand. (It's just that deleting it comes across as retracting your viewpoint, and could be perceived as such by staff. If I were deleting an answer for the same reason you initially pointed out, I'd edit it to make it clear that it was for cleanup reasons and not a retraction of my viewpoint.)

(For context to others: the user stated that the reason they deleted their answer was solely for cleanup reasons)

12:31 PM

another good option would be letting people do as they please without bugging them

^^^^^^^^

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog you really need to learn to trust people to do the right thing

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

I honestly don't see how that's bugging. I took care to phrase it without saying "you should" or to that effect.

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Literally that's the problem

Its really healthy to actually let folks do what they want unless it harms the community as a whole

and if it does, well, trust folks like mods to handle it.

I distinctly remember you have asked her about this post before

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Aibobot Yes, and my initial message was a reply to their response to that first question

and more broadly the response to "Please don't do that" shouldn't be "I'm not" and a load of justification

So, simply - I'm asking you to trust and respect anne's reasoning for deletion

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:35 PM

@Aibobot Alright, I agree that that was a misphrasing. I meant "that wasn't my intent".

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog but that's how its seen

and that's just as important

perception is just as important as intent

if not more

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Aibobot I'll respect the deletion

I just wanted to say that, since Anne stated that the reason for deleting it was because they thought it wouldn't be of much value to the OP, I'm simply clarifying to them that I (the OP) do consider it valuable.

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog it isn't just about that one instance though

its a broader pattern of behavior.

and... you're literally saying "I'll stop digging" and then picking up the shovel and digging in deeper

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Can you please stop saying 'the user'.... Their name is Anne or AnneDaunted.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

12:39 PM

@Tinkeringbell Edited

Thank you.

silent is gulden

Gilden

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog My viewpoint is of no importance. If they can read it, they can not only form their own opinion, they can also see its score and thereby what the community thinks.

@AnneDaunted your viewpoint matters. Whether you want to express it is your choice though ;)

12:52 PM

My viewpoint: there's no viewpoint.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Aibobot Out of curiosity, and I'm not currently planning to do this, but is it against policy if I were to post an answer saying, "Anne Daunted answered this question with an excellent explanation on why users should be notified of mod-only tag edits, but deleted their answer for cleanup reasons; here's what they said: [quote of answer in quote markup]"?

Sounds too creepy.

aka if you ask me, don't do that.

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Some things don't need policy, but courtesy.

Maybe not against any policy just something we don't do.

eh, what @Tink said. :)

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog I dunno about policy, but that's annoying, snarky, and disrespectful.

12:53 PM

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog or just post your own answer building from that.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

Which, after some consideration, adds to my reasons why I'm not planning to do that.

But you quite literally call out someone for deleting a post

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Glad you sensed it's wrong. :)

Perhaps stop asking us about things you're not planning to do too... it's getting annoying to 'correct' or 'explain' things that are hypothetical anyways.

Here's an alternative plan: do nothing and forget about it. You don't always have to try to "win".

12:54 PM

drop the opinionated words like "excellent"... some users will disagree with your opinion...

And quite often it only makes the room more argumentative, instead of a nice place for users to hang out.

@Tinkeringbell I don't mind being asked those things, at least by @Sonic. What appears trivial for us isn't trivial for him in those matters.

If you think a core of an answer is good, just talk about it. No need to metion Anne or anyone

That said, it can be done in other rooms, yes. (e.g. Den to ask me)

Hell, you can even post about terrible stuff worth discussing

12:56 PM

@Aibobot FR: show ads on SE chat instead

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

(sound of me bolting out in such case)

FR Deined. With extreme prejudice

@ShaWiz I said hypothetical, not trivial... this is the second time in a few days that people spend time explaining something, only to be 'dismissed' with 'I wasn't going to do this'. :P

denied even

@Aibobot I dein the FR to be a non starter :p

12:57 PM

@Magisch technically blogbot....

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Tinkeringbell In this case, however, I clearly clarified at first that I wasn't going to do it. Does that still count?

In real terms, it wouldn't matter much. Aint no static ad that is immune to the power of ublock origin or umatrix

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog Yeah... if you're already not planning on doing it, what's the point of putting it in here and annoying other people with it?

Attention? ;p

If you like negative attention, sure... Better chances just posting a nice picture you made or something....

1:01 PM

better chances for negative attention too. Just start extolling the virtues of green parrots in chat...

or dog photos

@Magisch Someone wants to be kicked from the room in the near future! :P

@Tinkeringbell sorry but I can't see why we can't ask about things before we do them and check if it's OK to do them or not?

@Tinkeringbell kicking a cactus hurts the foot

Even if the answer is a plain NO, still... it's fine to ask. No?

1:03 PM

@ShaWiz It's the fact that it's already determined these things won't be done that makes it annoying... If you want to check whether something is OK or not because you're planning to do them, that's entirely different (though sometimes still annoying).

But there's no use in rules lawyering if you already know you're not going to...

For all those who are curious, but have not the rep to see the answer or simply better things to do to look it up: The answer this is about had a score of 4. That's not exactly high (it'd need a score of 10 to earn me a "nice answer" badge) and it had been visible for months, before I deleted it.

it comes across as exactly that: rules lawyering for the sake of rules lawyering.

4 is higher than 0, but we respect your decision...

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Tinkeringbell At least by saying in advance that I'm not planning, it gives people the choice to not spend time answering, and thus reduces the annoyance. But if you consider it annoying, I'll reconsider before posting such things.

Whenever you're trying to explore the frayed edges of what you can and can't do on here, chances are you're already into "annoying an authority figure" territory and are trying to chart it. While on some sites policy forbids the authority figures from reacting negatively to that, it still has a high probability of annoying them somewhat severely.

1:05 PM

more or less that

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Magisch Ah, good point. That relates back to when I used to persistently ping Shog: his job policy meant that he'd have to respond nicely to my questions, but he wouldn't actually feel positive about it in the end

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog this is true of people in general

Empathy is essential for getting people to do things your way

@SonictheAnonymousWizHog By the time someone tells you you're annoying them, it's already been going on for a long time

People don't like having negative interactions with others. Especially when they're already annoyed by them. The threshold for telling someone that is not "They're annoying me", it's "They're annoying me so much that it's becoming seriously obnoxious and I'm unwilling to leave instead"

It's something I had to learn too: silence does not mean consent in most cases

Aug 15 '14 at 4:45, by bjb568

user image

1:21 PM

Well probably not that bad.. The transcript there really looks annoying :P

1:34 PM

Who's Jan?

Is he Feb's brother?

oh, and @Mar is another brother. :D

2:19 PM

Google got Looker. Salesforce bought Tableau. But open source tools are rising in popularity across the world of business intelligence and data analysis.

Alessio Civitillo on July 16, 2019

import seaborn as sns

sns.set(style=‘white’)

plt.figure(figsize=(12, 8))

plt.title(‘Cohorts: User Retention’)

sns.heatmap(user_retention.T, mask=user_retention.T.isnull(), annot=True, fmt=‘.0%’);

2:31 PM

@Feeds list summary is the best summary.

wait, that is a code. why it's oneboxed?!

1 hour later…

3:34 PM

[Thor.SE]

4:03 PM

Apparently Comics.SE failed, but there's still Movies.SE.

failed and will fail

> Unfortunately, a "comic book" site at this stage would fail on both accounts. -- Robert Cartaino's answer to "Would a Comic Books SE overlap too much with SCFI?"

4:29 PM

That's a good link/reply.

5:06 PM

@MetaAndrewT. it fits in the grand scheme of things where no useful summary of the blog was posted to any room since they migrated to WordPress.

→ 16 messages moved to Chimney

Hey @Tinkeringbell did you happen to have used the snelbus between 't Harde and Zwolle and if you did was that doable? I need to reach Groningen tomorrow and wonder if the NS reisplanner is accurate or if I have to allow for more slack.

@rene Very doable....

Unless there's traffic :P

But this time around, they're pretty organized, you get on the bus, bus leaves and goes to Zwolle, and drops you pretty much at the rear entrance of the station.

Okay. I give that a go then. Thanks

You're welcome!

I have not personally used the snelbus btw, only the stopbus but in both directions things have gone fine so far ;)

Well, I don't want to be late but I don't want to leave early and then have to be bored for an hour or so waiting for the meeting to start

What time will you be taking a bus at 't Harde?

5:18 PM

let me check

@Tinkeringbell 8:04

they expect 8:20 at Zwolle but I have a 16 minute gap there

That's about an hour later than I usually travel, can't tell if there'll be much traffic. I think you'll be fine, I've had driving classes around those times and usually there's not much ;)

Oh, that should be more than enough I think, unless there's some serious kind of accident/traffic

yeah, accidents can happen anywhere

I'd take that one, and not go an hour early ;)

Great. I'll keep you posted on my progress ;)

Hahaha you can try, but I'll be having a driving class from 8 to 9 so I won't be watching any chats during that time ;)

5:23 PM

Better not, no.

Just lemme know if the whole thing turned out right at the end ;)

Don't worry, I'll post some curse words here so you know how it went

Someone reposted from Magento.SE: meta.stackexchange.com/q/330965/158100

I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised, they really are quite well organised this year.

@rene Meh. Gone...

@Tinkeringbell yeah, I assume if they done their homework they know how much capacity they need

@rene Well... last year they technically had enough 'capacity' in the form of busses... just not enough people to drive them :/

5:28 PM

lol

Granted though, right now they're only replacing two or three directions with busses, last year it was everything

the drivers were on holiday as well

Something like that :P A lot of them probably were driving around tourists somewhere ;)

Oh, you boarded the snelbus and the driver took the route to lloret-de-mar ....

Glad they did not! Not my kind of fun :P

5:33 PM

shouldn't you go to Zwolle? Nah, we get there in 2 weeks

@rene There are people that always know 'better/quicker routes'. Fun fact: They're never better or quicker.

yeah, I do. The best part is when my quick route form 10 years back turned into a vinex wijk

Hahaha.... Here it's mostly that the busses take a certain route because it means they can mostly go with the flow of traffic (no lane switching, or left hand turns)... Which means they can drive a bit safer, better... even though it may be a whole minute longer ;)

(those are the stop busses again)

yeah, you don't win much given the short distance

5:56 PM

Dog leg bus route:

user image

6:30 PM

@AnneDaunted Wait a sec. It's your own answer? This whole discussion is pointless.

@ShaWiz Oh bother

1 hour later…

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

7:46 PM

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/4835553/katelord

Is every Smokey report shown here?

No, only the ones that weren't deleted 5? minutes after Smokey posted them in Charcoal HQ

Oh ok

I’m writing a question and I’m curious to see if it’s set off (uses a few words that seem like they could trigger it)

@Stormblessed If it does, it should show up in Charcoal HQ pretty quickly. (Note: that's a serious room that likes to stick to their topic, SmokeDetector. You've been warned now not to be too chatty or off-topic in there :P)

@Tinkeringbell yeah, and not for Stack Overflow

7:57 PM

@Tinkeringbell yup, I’ve been there a little

@rene Of course SO has to be different... And they say I moderate the strange site..

sure

@Stormblessed if you've got more than 1 rep, you're probably okay. Past 100, you're basically immune.

@ArtOfCode oh I didn’t know that

Frickin mobile :P

By “basically immune” do you mean I’d get caught if I had my 4000 reputation (on SFF) and spammed f*** into a post a thousand times?

You'd get flagged, and suspended

8:11 PM

But would Smokey automatically catch that?

The point of smokey isn't to catch rogue users

its to catch spammers.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

@Tinkeringbell @Stormblessed And provided that they're not marked as a false positive in the first 5 minutes

@Stormblessed lets say I had a total mental break and started posting swears on my answers. Say the f word 40K times

first thing that would happen is my main account would be temporarily de-modded and suspended

I'd get a mod message.

maybe an email

But no, smokey would likely not care

8:30 PM

@Stormblessed I said "basically immune" because I know there are some checks that reputation doesn't exempt you from, but I can't remember which ones they are

Pretty sure Jon Skeet is the only one truly exempt from all checks, seeing as he's the only one who's passed 1M rep.

in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jan 19 '18 at 10:24, by iBug

I suddenly realized that Jon Skeet is now exempt from ALL our tests.

@Tinkeringbell And that are non-SO reports.

Sonic the Anonymous WizHog

8:54 PM

delv-pls one-more-delete-vote-needed 2k+ meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/65893 and meta.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/65894

1 hour later…

9:57 PM

@Marshmallow oh boy

10:27 PM

huh, we don't actually appear to care about rep on any checks any more

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