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00:18
hm
I absolutely think putting a question on having a paywall/paid SE tier is essential. So we can crush it like a cockroach.
But doing so in a manner that dose't get me a shedload of downloads will be a challenge
Rob
Rob
@JourneymanGeek Say: "Is doing that a bad idea"? - 🍄💣👍
@Rob yes, precisely
but without dismissing it totally in the question.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be worth doing ;)
Rob
Rob
Without dismissing: List the advantages, #1 Destroy the integrity of the voting and reputation system. #2 Violate the spirit of cc by-sa 3.0 with pay to play symbiosis. #3 Cause one arm to grow longer than the other. ...
😃
01:05
Also, I kinda want to quote a few people but erf.
lol. Immediate downvote
@Rob Its kinda the.... crazy uncle yelling in the basement situation
There done
going to ask another mod to review if we should CW it
dosen't feel right to make that decision
01:38
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog yanno? Everyone loves a trainwreck. Write a great answer on how those sites failed
@JourneymanGeek The salient points of my would-be answer are pretty much addressed in Cris Luengo's answer.
(which, to be fair, didn't exist at the time I made that comment)
02:29
alas... morning
Rob
Rob
02:47
@JourneymanGeek You did the exact opposite of what was suggested and were the master of your own demise. Even Rene won't be able to help.
02:59
@Rob ah, but maybe I'm ok with the downvotes.
Sometimes my plans are like onions. There's layers and sometimes there's crying involved.
Rob
Rob
Chug, chug, chug!
@JourneymanGeek I thought the site you're referring to is...
3
Q: This site will be closing on July 30, 2019

Jon EricsonCreating a successful new web site is hard. Even with a dedicated network of users to draw from, it takes a considerable level of commitment and buy-in from an active community to get the site off the ground. Unfortunately, Augur—Stack Exchange isn't going to make it. In just about 2 years of e...

@MetaAndrewT. no
@Rob so, I'm asking if we should CW it to protect answers. Since I'm actually getting lots of downvotes - I can make an example of something unpopular, asked by a popular user, worth asking.
and yanno what?
I can take the downvotes without too much emotional distress or hurt to my reputation levels ;p
Perhaps I really have to try posting an unpopular answer to feel da downvotes...
Though, I did feel different when getting downvoted on my question instead of my answer.
03:20
@MetaAndrewT. well, I expected the downvotes.
Rob
Rob
@JourneymanGeek Not to give out TMI, but as you know there will be a limit to the downvotes. And, you can say:
The puny rep hit (as you call it) is really small compared to others of recent memory. IIWY I'd leave it.
I leave mine, here at main Meta.
03:36
@Rob Noticed that you voted to reject this edit. While I don't necessarily agree with the premise behind the edit, I feel that the edit itself is valid, and voted to approve. Also, if you'd followed the link the editor was citing, it clearly mentions that a bounty is not a good way to get an official response to a request.
It provides more clarity to the title.
There's a reason why the system lets title-only edits past the 6-character body edit restriction.
@Rob On the whole, its small. Its more for (potential) answers.
Rob
Rob
As I stated in my objection, I couldn't fairly choose the other reasons. It's a cheap bump. I didn't want to list all their alternative courses of action, so as to not encourage them further.
3 mins ago, by Sonic the Bracketed Hedgehog
It provides more clarity to the title.
What's an "anchor name"?
Not everyone knows.
Rob
Rob
JM, it could be for answers but I think the answer is self evident - and if a truly great answer should be forthcoming it ought to be upvoted, not attacked because of the question.
... and if one does not know what does one do ...
@JourneymanGeek What do you think of the edit? IMO it's a valid edit, but the stated objective in the edit summary is to bump it.
Rob
Rob
03:43
We take people at their word first, unless it's an evil twin story. Why question the premise.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog first and foremost
@Rob is free to vote as he sees fit
You really should not be bugging people over how they choose to vote unless they're clearly asleep at the wheel
Rob
Rob
It's not like I ping him about his ideas.
@JourneymanGeek There's a reason I used the reply button instead of a ping
> Comment: editing to draw attention to popular feature request (as suggested by meta.stackexchange.com/a/306398/553187)
a reply button is a ping
Rob
Rob
✔️
03:45
So lets consider
@JourneymanGeek There are two Rob's, so a general ping will ping both
maybe your advice is bad
A reply will only ping the right one
@JourneymanGeek That might be the most heartwarming thing I've heard all day.
So literally its a cheap bump cause a popular meta post suggests cheap bumps as a way to get attention
Rob
Rob
03:46
2️⃣🐇
@HDE226868 oh let me see if I can get full effect
alas no
Its almost a quote from a horrible 20s soap on singapore TV that I never watched but was advertised a lot
@JourneymanGeek So would you suggest a "symbolic reject"? Rejecting their edit but then applying it; this will indicate that the edit is good but discourage that type of edit ("cheap bump").
one of the charecters kept threatening to crush people like a cockroach under their feet
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog It would still bump
the right thing is to make sure people don't get bad advice
@JourneymanGeek I feel that like that would be a cultural reference that would zing right over my head.
@HDE226868 literally if you were not an 80s/90s singaporean...
it would
03:49
I don't see a serious issue in bumping a post, and as I'm trusted to make binding edits, I'm free to edit however I want.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog but but
we don't really need to bump that post
and that edit is based off bad advice
We literally SHOULD NOT be encouraging people to bump posts for attention.
So, on its own? no
as a pattern? It could be seen as harmful
Rejecting the edit will discourage the pattern.
"This edit is good, but please don't perform this type of edit in the future."
its just as bad if people with enough rep to edit do it too.
That's the message a "symbolic reject" sends.
The fundamental problem is trivial edits in faith it will be looked at
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog dude. You literally just made it up
It dosen't mean anything at all other than "I just went around 2 other reviewers cause it agrees with something I wrote"
03:52
Now who's doing the bugging?
15 mins ago, by Sonic the Bracketed Hedgehog
It provides more clarity to the title.
I have another reason for editing the post, other than to merely bump it.
Rob
Rob
The person could have answered, made a much better edit or forked over a bounty; but instead it was a minimal effort to skirt anyone objecting (and rejecting) for any of the other reasons - so I used other and made a valid objection (based on the Editor's stated purpose).
The existing title is not clear to those who haven't done a lot of Web programming and don't know what an "anchor name" is.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog which hasn't come up so far
you're talking about things like "symbolic rejects" and the editor's intent is obvious.
And once again
based off bad information
You should fix it, its your post.
@JourneymanGeek How can I improve the third paragraph on the answer?
It doesn't encourage minor edits like this one. In fact, the examples I link to there are all more comprehensive edits.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog and yet it did
so... maybe consider why. Its your post.
That said, I do not expect to see any more "why did you go that way in the queue" questions here.
03:57
@JourneymanGeek Sometimes I genuinely want feedback as to why others reviewed a certain thing a different way than me, because maybe I missed something or am unfamiliar with some implicit guideline.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog Its somewhat excessively agressive, or passive agressive
just handle things as you see fit and move on
Rob
Rob
Especially when there's a lot of back and forth, the answer you asked for is further argued against.
The CMs say that it's OK for mods to give review bans for single bad reviews. I want to improve my review skills to avoid such bans. And that includes learning from others, why they reviewed some things a certain way.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog If you mess up, someone will let you know
And not just for the things you specifically want feedback for.
I don't want to mess up in the first place
04:00
Everyone messes up
that's how you learn
The trick is actually taking that feedback
Rob
Rob
✔️
Don't forget
We are not out to get people
The more folks understand and work with our expectations, the less work moderation is.
SO its in our best interests to feed back to people gently (or otherwise) when they could get in trouble
That said, I reread that section of my answer multiple times, and quite frankly, I cannot understand how it promotes making minor edits to posts just to get official attention for them.
Maybe it's the "grammar edits" part (but this wasn't one). Maybe it's the last sentence of that paragraph.
Well amongst other things
there's no sure way to get attention to a post from folks with people with the ability to actually make that change
Not for me (as a user of reasonably good contacts in the company)
or maybe even CMs.
I wouldn't have put the recommendation to contact SE if the CMs themselves hadn't recommended it.
04:07
The few times I fast tracked something, it was a breaking bug, and I managed to go completely around the usual way to do things cause it was actually time sensitive.
(and it might have been caught/fixed already)
Also, as far as the title edit, that post had already been bumped by an answer an hour earlier, so there wasn't much of a concern bumping it with an edit. So I went ahead and applied it.
stroopwafels
"Don't do that"
"Does it anyway"
And you're worried about messing up
Self-reverted
Sorry
Funny thing is
if you hadn't asked
no one would have cared.
Act on what you think is right and useful
Not about how folks will percieve you
05:01
!!/watch codeninja\.pk
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog That pattern looks like it's already caught by Potentially bad keyword in body and Potentially bad keyword in answer; append -force if you really want to do that.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog gone. Though considering it was still up, I don't think the ping was particularly necessary. I'd have caught it, as I did, after lunch.
@JourneymanGeek They were posting spam in quick succession
The second one was within minutes of the first, so I assumed they were going to keep spamming like that, so I thought it would be best to stop it as quickly as possible.
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog but but, if I was here, I'd have one eye on chat.
+ smokey
I do need to talk to go dig up the RSS feed for MSE spam though
05:12
@JourneymanGeek Smokey only posts after a 5-minute waiting period
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog naw, I have a feed of deleted posts
So posts in quick succession, as well as those nuked within five minutes, won't be posted here.
so I can go back and leave warm presents on their accounts
Its a feature I actually indirectly asked for and was implimented better than I expected
@SonictheBracketedHedgehog doing so is now redundant ;p
 
1 hour later…
I HAVE SUNK YOUR ROWBOAT!
@JourneymanGeek hairboat??
no, rowboat
One doesn't sink Hairboat. I think.
Only battleships.
but I couldn't think of anything clever linking rows and battleships
@ShadowTheCurlyBracedWizard You've earned the "Hairboat" badge!
06:52
@MetaAndrewT. yay!
07:03
Hmm... perhaps this is the first time I'm seeing... Google AdMob ads on GameDev.SE...
It is... well... relevant(?)...
that's kinda the idea no?
(who don't want to add ads in your games!?)
Well that's one way to make money off your q&a site games.
the best ones are the ones where the ads fail
or spotify where the music plays fine, but the ads buffer badly ._.
Spotify, lol
lol
Sometimes work gets boring ;p
and I need background noise at 4am in the morning
07:12
I kind of like Spotify to find weird songs audio
Spotify has no idea what to make of me.
I listen to such an eclectic mix that it has no idea what it should give me.
Hello there ^_^ If I found, that one of the SE employees violate rules, whom should I write about it?
Don't suggest contact form, it doesn't work.
@Mithrandir this employee has access to this email. And has access to reports from contact form.
May I ask what you think the issue is here?
07:16
@Mithrandir not sure, it's a really long story =/
@Suvitruf erf. Unless you know someone's personal email, its tough.
@JourneymanGeek is it ok to message Shog about it?
And you'd probably still need to go through a CM of some sort
@JourneymanGeek there is a problem...
@Suvitruf Personally no, and there's no good side channels.
(I mean, I have em, but I'm in a strange situation)
07:18
@JourneymanGeek ok, I'll try [email protected], at least. Thanks!
The answer kinda changes depending on how exactly they're violating the rules.
@Suvitruf that mostly gets through the community growth folks
Its... er...
Animuson and someone else?
I think Grace now? The roles kinda got changed
ya, that sounds about right
@Suvitruf so chances are unless its one of those two, at least you'd have the mail seen by one of those employees
I'm also under the impression that goes into the ticketing system
(same as the contact form)
(Also, if this is about Nicolas, I think that's a bit of a special case that I don't know all the details about.)
07:24
@Mithrandir as I said before, it's a long long story =/
Well, they inherited him with the site, in a sense.
I would be happy, if there are no need to start this conversation, but...
@Suvitruf pretty sure though, if its a legit complant, someone will take it seriously
and someone else will take a look.
Most of the CMs I know are good folks ;)
@JourneymanGeek the problem here is, that last year I've already message them using contact form. Without results...
@Suvitruf ah
07:28
@JourneymanGeek I'm pretty sure, that's the person is not evil. Probably, made mistakes, that he couldn't see/handle by himself. And he need help from other teammates.
@Suvitruf well that's about as far as I've gone. I've once poked a CM about a specific issue. I have no idea where it goes from there
I donno if there's something past an email and contact form
Well, there's presumably the ticketing system.
And then there are the CM / staff chatrooms.
07:59
I wonder why chat is so active today... TGIF!
@MetaAndrewT. friday.
@MetaAndrewT. might be related to the fact that SE now shoves Google ads at us
@JohnDvorak and the yellow sidebar
painted the HNQ in yellow
08:22
I see a question and I want to paint it blaaaaaacckkkkkkkk
-4
Q: Are there any great reasons for or against having a paid for tier for the main SE sites, and what could that entail?

Journeyman GeekThere's been a few suggestions from fellow users that we should consider having a paid tier on SE. Now, SE's fundamentally against being behind a paywall of any sort. I also remember someone suggesting it be a way to get around early user restrictions or even buying reputation. I personally don'...

Don't get the downvotes on this. Except maybe MariLouA's
If they thought it did not merit discussion, why did they upvote the answers?
@Marshmallow I'd put your little commentary at the top. I bet skim readers see it as you suggesting a payment model and kneejerk the down vote
@Marshmallow I ask myself each time I go to Meta SO.
@Marshmallow well, you should have known about the voting behavior on meta...
@RoryAlsop My? I'm as innocent as a kitten.
Which is not innocent at all.
08:30
@Marshmallow (¬‿¬ )
@Marshmallow funny thing is
Come on, how does @Journey resemble me? I'm obviously more handsome and charismatic.
And I don't chase my tail.
I'm baffled by the upvotes
I upvoted it 'cause it merits discussion
@RoryAlsop oh, the meta commentary is intentionally at the bottom
08:31
You don't seem to be suggesting something, you're just discussing it
I'd probably left it out if I wasn't a mod
*have
@MetaAndrewT. *must
@Marshmallow *the most
*maybe
@Marshmallow *ought to
hands @Marshmallow the *red pen
@Suvitruf TBF I think meta.SO tends to make more sense on sensitive and emotional stuff
08:33
@JourneymanGeek One of them is mine, I did write a comment suggesting a dedicated post to discuss it yesterday, after all...
Anyway, let's use our reps as the currency for the paid-tire
@Tinkeringbell I totally get why people would downvote it though. Which is why I did it. XD
I thought SE was already freemium. Earn 10 grand and you can see exclusive content.
@Marshmallow using reply on mobile device...sorry
Yeah, please mine the Unicoin first
08:35
@JourneymanGeek Downvotes don't make sense unless you take them as a dislike button
@Marshmallow which is what I assumed it was in this case XD
@Marshmallow which is the fact... until "Meta is not Murder" is applied succesfully
@JourneymanGeek 👎
@MetaAndrewT. or in my case, go in knowing its going to happen
The announcement is neatly +58/-116
Now the downvotes are way more understandable on that one
08:37
@JourneymanGeek I should have more active in posting unpopular opinions...
@Marshmallow Are they?
@Tinkeringbell It's possible to disagree with the premise of an announcement or just think it's not 'useful'
@Tinkeringbell because they want the new Lifeboat badge...
@Marshmallow Meh. Perhaps... Though in this case people seem to be missing the word 'experiment' a bit? A lot of the answers are acting like the post is saying 'this is what you'll be getting in the way of advertisements and we're not going to change that'.
@Tinkeringbell Well, sure, I guess half the downvotes are just "I HATE U N UR ADZ"
08:44
Which is bad IMO
Because the first thing there is 'I hate you', not 'I hate ads'
@Marshmallow that's a bit of a strange and interesting problem
It's not ads as much as the difficulty in seeing SO Corp as an entity needing to make money
Ya. Some of the ads are off. But we are totally welcome to point out the unwelcome ones
09:03
Hmm...
09:30
@JourneymanGeek thing is, they don't review the ads before showing them anymore, like it used to be. Sorry but having a bad ad removed only after reported (and 6-8 days until the report is handled) is pointless and meaningless.
@ShadowTheCurlyBracedWizard on the other hand, if there's enough of a fuss, they might review the fact that they're not reviewed, or even drop the ad provider.
Hehe yeah.
No it won't happen.
@ShadowTheCurlyBracedWizard compare "Y'all are terrible and won't listen to us" vs "Um, guys, your ad providers are kinda ruining your name"
(I'm not actually sure why I'm having this conversation as opposed to someone who actually knows whats going on but lets just roll with it...)
 
1 hour later…
10:49
...did this tab just spontaneously reload for anyone else?
11:01
Twice.
@Mithrandir Nope
@Mithrandir Nope
 
1 hour later…
12:16
@Mithrandir Happens randomly to clear caches
@Mithrandir solar flares
 
1 hour later…
13:39
Is it me or does stackoverflow.blog/2019/06/20/… read like an ad? I don't understand why that is on the SO blog, who's the target audience here?
13:53
@Stijn I have no idea what that company even is, or what they do
@JourneymanGeek Did you intentionally write in a way to invite DVs?
@AnneDaunted not exactly
@JourneymanGeek It's very important to choose the right title on meta (also site metas)
Its a post though that 1) talks about an unpopular viewpoint 2) kinda tries to (to the best of my ability) share that point of view...
It's probably a topic that will invite downvote though, nevertheless.
13:58
yup
Its less inviting downvotes than "This happened differently from what I expected"
Now that I did a super quick skimming of the latest blog article, that looks like an answer to the meta.stackoverflow.com/q/385542/2821954 -> do an interview with an expert and post it on the company blog.
There's a lot of distrust of SE that's leading people to think of more worse case scenarios than before.
Kind of irony when it's hard to assume good faith on the company anymore...?
It's more or less par for the course, I think.
Like someone from SE mentioned, their community actually trusting them is a very rare thing, and most of the time, they have to let the product speak for itself.
@fbueckert remember the arbitration discussion?
14:08
@fbueckert actually?
Who is intuit? Why should they interest me? (Or a dev?)
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I don't recall who. I think it was Jon? On his blog?
No I mean...
I'm assuming good intent, but that blog has me baffled over what they're trying to do.
Is there an existing FR for adding link to inbox on "inbox" text in inbox menu?
(I mean, I literally have a post complaining about the quality or lackthereof of the blog posts, and I'm unimpressed)
quality of blog posts... quality of ads... now I see the trend...
14:12
@MetaAndrewT. Well, I try to be outspoken about stuff that matters to me
but balance that with not being that guy who just complains about everything.
Which is good, unlike the apathetic me...
@MetaAndrewT. well, I have my reasons ;p
Though, those reasons change
At that point, I was trying to get some 'official' interest outside the whole SO + addons ecosystem.
@Feeds ...
(The next few things we're trying to do are trickier but hey, least I got company tilting at them windmills)
14:38
Just caught up on some Meta stuff I somehow missed over the past weeks. It seems like investors are taking more and more control of the company's direction? Slowly the company turns into what it once set out to displace, but I have a feeling it is a lot harder now, if not impossible, for a new initiative to disrupt the Q&A space and dethrone SO. (Sorry for the doomsday thinking...)
Dethrone SO.. in what ways? Expert answers? Or... the (perceived) welcoming/inclusivity? (doomsday clock just ticked)
@Stijn well, a lot of this was happening in different ways
@MetaAndrewT. expert answers
In that case, yeah, I agree.
 
2 hours later…
16:36
TIL interrobang is a thing ...
What⁉⁉
@rene I mean, you should have realized by now how weird Englishers are at calling things things.
I probably should have paid attention, yes
 
2 hours later…
18:29
Now, we talk about downvotes
@rene is that... extracting information during pillow-talk, i.e.: a honeypot?
But I actually don't get THE FAVORITES on the advertisement either.
@canon yes, it is .... hides
oh, joy... windows update makes search results blinding white even on the dark theme
le sigh
You can easily fix that in the registry ... if you can find the key
19:30
@rene I lost my keys
Ugh, those Updates downvoted my Windows...
20:03
I'm ready for Happy Hour now! :-(
Sorry, you have to wait till it starts. We're about to close down Sad Week and then we reset for Happy Hour. Stay tuned!
🚽
Happy sushi! 🍣🍸
@rene ;-)
20:26
@rene Well, I guess I can begin with happy hour, ahead of Happy Hour? :-)
why does happy hour have to be limited to an hour
21:05
Is this general place of stackexchange? Have I found the promised land?
My question is...
How can I search for threads that have been any of these: 1) [closed], 2) [off-topic], 3) [deleted]? I noticed an odd trend about python and r across the stack exchange and I want to make sure that my theory is not wrong. Because I feel like my conclusions should be data driven not gut feeling driven.
:D
you can't search for deleted questions on the live site
closed and off-topic you can search for
but not one or the other
the data explorer can probably search for closed by a specific reason
^so I did search for this question, but did not find anything. I wanted to ask it here as I pretty sure it would be duplicate. lol (slowly being trained by stackoverflow ^^; )
i don't mess with the data explorer, so i'm not of much help there
21:15
Well I can always try it for myself. :D
@mlane for deleted you can only find the postid. Not the content of the post.
@mlane here is closed and off-topic: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1068581
@rene darn well something is better than nothing :D
Time to go mining :D
@mlane I've update the query with deleted posts as well, that is in the second resultset
21:32
I guess it's a happy time to sleep for me...
eyes sparkles you coded this :O @rene ?
This is awesome eyes sparkle
@MetaAndrewT. have a good night :D
Rob
Rob
21:52
@mlane Glad you were steered towards a helpful answer.
BTW: Data Explorer updates once a week, on Sunday, so the information is almost as out of date as it gets.
@Rob in terms of data exploration 7 week delay is fine. I am just hoping 200 results is a representative sample. :)
 
1 hour later…
23:07
We have happy hour?
Cool, its nice to meet you all ;D
23:36
Nice to meet you @SonictheBracketedHedgehog :D
23:49
Seems no one is in the mood for a "happy hour"?
I am :D
Since that seems to have been the case for a couple months, perhaps Tavern on the Meta should no longer schedule it.
@Namaste How are you? :D
We should do it more ;D
@mlane me too!
@mlane Looking forward to the weekend!
@mlane How about you?
So yeah , I am working on something that @rene helped me with and right now, I decided for kicks to answer the Mary question.
@Namaste ugh no, I work on Saturdays ;-; (I used to teach R, but they have me helping with python)
23:52
@mlane Well, looking forward to Sunday??!! :D
Speaking of which I need to answer my students questions or make sure they are good. There was one that stumped, me but I hope to figure it out soon
Yes Sunday is my day off \o/
ugh also I made two of myself accidently and stackoverflow is costly logging me in and out XD.
already sent a support request

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