Tavern on the Meta

12:03 AM

@Undo It's loading almost immediately in North America, @forest. This heavy page loads instantly, with a ~3/4 second delay to render the top graphic (on my cellphone).

forest

12:15 AM

Weird. It loads far more slowly than any other page I've visited.

And I use Tor so if something is taking longer than normal for me, it's really slow.

Rob

It's always snappy for me, unless it's down (then it doesn't load at all). There's slower pages than that, by far, but I didn't want to punish both ends with the lookups that would have to be generated. -- And, I'm on a slow WiFi ATM.

MilkyWay90

12:56 AM

stackoverflow.blog/2019/05/17/… Sounds familiar

I think it's against the rules to say the person though

But it's on Tavern in the Meta so...

forest

@MilkyWay90 I assume you're talking about the mysterious diamond?

It's not against the rules to say the person. I mean it's public knowledge.

MilkyWay90

I see

Also, I think I've seen you before

Oh nevermind, that was forrest

forest

I've seen forrest only once, in The DMZ.

But usually I'm there, not him. :P

MilkyWay90

Okay

Anyways, gtg

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Catija What I meant was, you'd be all excited about Happy Hour, and because of you others will show up here, and you get the idea

@forest Ignore option will disable the entry animation

forest

1:08 AM

oh huh

I guess so, but I'd prefer to complain that SE is too lazy to use proper CSS and instead has to use bloated JavaScript for animations.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I avoided saying that at the time because...reasons

forest

What would a possible reason for not saying that be?

I mean if it's a public feature and intentionally disables animations...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

But the point is, I did eventually say it

forest

0

Q: How can I stop my kitten from growing?

I acquired my cat 1 month ago. She is now 8 months old and substantially larger than when I rescued her from the shelter. How can I stop her from growing larger? Thanks.

cats

Hey look another crappy HNQ question.

Getting visits due to controversy... Hot question indeed!

oooh I have 666 votes cast. I don't want to vote anymore. :o

nitsua60

At least that one has ~2K views and 5 answers. We keep getting "hot" questions and noticing that they've got, like, 80 views, +2 score, and one +3 answer.

forest

1:23 AM

@nitsua60 Guess those ones didn't have a controversial enough title!

nitsua60

It just convinces me the "velocity" term is waaaay too sensitive. Just because the question was answered in 90 sec. doesn't mean it's HNQ-worthy, SE.

forest

Agreed.

At least those usually stay on HNQ for only a short time.

Catija

@nitsua60 indeed. And my hope is that we'll roll out an 8-hour minimum age sometime soon. Just waiting on review.

forest

8 hour?

nitsua60

@forest I've seen high-school relationships flourish and wither in less time!

=)

forest

1:34 AM

hah

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I was actually thinking 24 hours was a better waiting time

forest

I was thinking like... one hour.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

We already impose a 48-hour waiting period for bounties for this reason

forest

Well I don't feel strongly about it one way or another.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Catija Companion FR: allow proactively removing the question from HNQ, in case the question is not closeable but shouldn't be on HNQ for another reason, so once the time lapses, it won't show up.

Shog9

1:42 AM

everything is closable...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Cars are crashable...

forest

Except Stack Exchange's dev system authentication.

ducks

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

forest

quack

Shog9

that is not secure which can be hosed / but with strange aeons even dev may be closed

forest

1:50 AM

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Rob

2:30 AM

Has anyone seen my 🦆

forest

Your little unicode square showing 0x1F986?

Rob

Upgrade your equipment

forest

My equipment has more cores and RAM than everyone in this chat combined. :^)

(probably. maybe)

Firefox ESR hates unicode I guess.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@forest How much?

forest

54 cores, 128 GiB memory.

Well, 54 threads.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

2:44 AM

@forest If you're running Windows older than Windows 10 Anniversary Update, it won't show for you.

forest

I'm not even running Windows.

Journeyman Geek

@forest I slightly doubt that

For combined at least

forest

@JourneymanGeek Yeah you're right. I counted and I doubt everyone here has 4 cores or less.

Rob

He has a dual core:

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@forest You can install Emoji One, an open-source emoji set, here

forest

2:49 AM

gross

Unicode is dangerous. We need to ban assault unicode!

︻̷┻̿═━一-

Journeyman Geek

I think I'd account for about 20 cores myself

Rob

o͡͡͡╮༼ . •́ _ʖ •̀ . ༽╭o͡͡͡ --- and 8 in my phone

Journeyman Geek

Oh x86 alone

forest

Mobile cores aren't real cores.

Otherwise I'd have to count two for each hard drive, one for each SSD, one/two for each DVD/BD burner, a CPLD or two, monitor and keyboard microcontroller, etc.

Rob

Says the person whom can't load a webpage with more than 50 cores ...

forest

3:01 AM

My NIC has only one core. :^)

Journeyman Geek

He does have a point...

Catija

3:21 AM

... y'all have odd conversations.

2

forest

Well I'm high so.

Catija

You should be talking about how Grumpy Cat dying at the young age of seven makes you feel.

forest

Who?

oh

A meme

Journeyman Geek

@Catija :(

user302202

It just... doesn't.

Catija

3:30 AM

Doesn't what?

user302202

make me feel

user302202

I thought of joining the review strike but since I don't review anyway... I'll stop voting and flagging instead. Consider this issue closed.

Catija

That's okay. I just watched this which is what I thought of.

Rob

4:33 AM

A fairly comprehensive update on the recent security breach.

rene

6:50 AM

awesome. I clean-up later ...

Journeyman Geek

7:05 AM

Can confirm. Though not much of an answer

"How do I load a sofa into my old 70s mini? "Solved, I switched to a pickup truck!"

rene

yeah. true that

Journeyman Geek

7:30 AM

more so if you didn't know caddy was a web server

Journeyman Geek

10:34 AM

→ 10 messages moved to Chimney

Journeyman Geek

11:30 AM

I have cheese.

Bart

Gimme

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I have liquorice ;)

Way better than cheese

Journeyman Geek

actually I have more halaumi than I thought I did, and good cheddar

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Tinkeringbell Wallace would disagree with you

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek halaumi?

Journeyman Geek

11:36 AM

@Tinkeringbell greek grilling cheese

Halloumi

Halloumi or haloumi () is a semi-hard, unripened, brined cheese made from a mixture of goat's and sheep's milk, and sometimes also cow's milk. It has a high melting point and so can easily be fried or grilled. Rennet is used to curdle the milk in halloumi production, although no acid-producing bacteria are used in its preparation.Halloumi is often associated with the island of Cyprus, where it has been produced by a multiethnic population for many centuries. It is also popular throughout the region broadly known as the Levant. It became widely available in Turkey after 2000. Demand in the United...

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Oooh, Halloumi :P (Kidding, never heard of that one before either ;) )

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

As an American I've never heard of it

Journeyman Geek

I'm singaporean

I can get anything but pizza oil apparently

which might be a british thing.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

There's special oil for pizza?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog its a condiment.

Its a neutral oil with like, a big sprig of something, and a chilli and coriander seeds in it

I've not seen the stuff in over a decade though ;p

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

11:41 AM

Ahh, I've seen that done with olive oil here, but only at the fancier Italian restaurants. (Most pizza sold here comes from fast pizza joints)

Journeyman Geek

But camel milk? I literally can tell you a place for that.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Camel...milk?

Journeyman Geek

Yes, camels are mammals, have milk, and apparently its a commercial product

This was a bit of a suprise as well

and no, I didn't buy it for science.

Margarine

You kidding me?

Journeyman Geek

No, that would be goats milk.

Silly rabbit, goats milk is for kids.

(and that my dear readers, is when SE started getting complaints about my terrible puns)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

11:50 AM

@Margarine I see you're not a fan of milk

Margarine

No I'm saying camel milk is the drink for Arabs

It's like, more prominent than ice cream

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

If you were a fan of milk you'd call yourself Butter

Journeyman Geek

@Margarine this isn't arabia though

and sometimes we get confused for china

Margarine

@JourneymanGeek So you're not kidding me. Whatever.

Journeyman Geek

@Margarine singapore has a crazy foodie culture

and yes, I was serious about camel milk not being a common/normal thing here

and that specific supermarket is a little nutty.

Mustafa Centre

Mustafa Centre is one of Singapore's 24-hour shopping malls on Syed Alwi Road in the cultural district of Little India, within the planning area of Kallang. Within a walking distance from Farrer Park station on the North East Line, Mustafa Centre is a retail hub attracting many shoppers with its wide variety of products and services. In 1971, Mustaq Ahmad; his father, Haji Mohamed Mustafa (1916-2001); and his uncle, Samsuddin, founded Mohamed Mustafa and Samsudin Co Pte Ltd (MMSC), and opened a retail store on Campbell Lane in Singapore. It mainly sold ready-made clothing and later expanded to...

they sell. all the things.

Margarine

11:55 AM

@JourneymanGeek what, they sell prosthetic alligator jaw?

Journeyman Geek

@Margarine I've never asked

rene

@Tinkeringbell I did want to offer a link on that Mazda question .... you're too quick ;)

@rene Sorry :)

@rene Sorry :)

@rene SORRY! :)

12:00 PM

To make up, I dropped that link on that post.

They'll still be able to see it ;)

rene

We're nice

Margarine

No you're a bit blunt

Journeyman Geek

12:22 PM

No. He's a bit blur

Margarine

@JourneymanGeek well, the fact that he is bit seems undeniable

Magisch

12:52 PM

Network maintenance saturday is fun

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:03 PM

@Margarine Who is the parrot now?

Margarine

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Tink. She obviously predicted my message and imitated preemptively

Journeyman Geek

@Makyen I don't think that should be closed

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Makyen Out of curiosity, why didn't you vote to close? (There are three votes, one's mine and the other two came from review)

Journeyman Geek

It feels like a question/attempt to clarify the rules - and that's an entirely entirely viable question

And yes, I do realise folks try to shove everything into the FAQ, but that as a reason to close feels kinda... hostile to me

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Closing it as a duplicate of the deletion FAQ would be wrong, as that was unclear (I edited it in response). But closing it as a dupe of the Roomba documentation post is clear IMO since the deletion criterion is shown in the deletion notice (screenshot there) and it's clear that that specific check doesn't check for closed-ness.

Journeyman Geek

1:10 PM

Or just... well, let it be

it could get roombaed or just forgotten

and that's fine

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

My rule is: if you have to edit the FAQ in response to a question, it's not a dupe

(no implications from there)

Journeyman Geek

You don't set the rules.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

The inverse isn't necessarily true.

Journeyman Geek

I don't really set the rules either, outside strongly encouraging certain viewpoints wherever I can ;p

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I do sometimes dupe-close in some cases as a "nicer" alternative to voting to close as some other reason

tl;dr your case was just a few edge cases coming together to bite...but that's exactly what meta and moderators are for. — Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog 21 mins ago

Journeyman Geek

1:15 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog My personal viewpoint is - well unless the closure is directly helpful, we need to lean towards user-friendliness over attempted perfection.

We're helpdesk as well as documentation in a sense

@Magisch Ash pic in the litter box.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I feel like the closure as a dupe of the Roomba documentation post is directly helpful here

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Well, if she hit an edge case...

or a series of edge cases

the post on its own can have value

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

When I close vote as an FAQ I nearly always edit my dupe comment to explain where and how the question is answered. As in "yes, this is the case, see this section of the FAQ: [link]"

Margarine

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm gonna use NicolBolas's "reasonable user" theory to arrive at your opposite conclusion.

Wait, I just did. I mean, that's now ironic.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek If she's generally asking about the situation, sure, but in this case she specifically asked about the deletion criteria, so not.

Journeyman Geek

1:17 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog and in her case, a specific combination of criteria, which wasn't obvious

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Nope, just one criterion

Margarine

If someone reads the docs and you ask them about an edge case and their response is "mmmmaybe" instead of "definitely" then it's useful to have it around.

Journeyman Geek

and Mari does seem to know her way around the network, so...

Precisely

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

She didn't ask about the edge case. She asked about the deletion criteria specifically.

Journeyman Geek

(also, if anyone wants to close as specific to a certain site. Noooope. I think that's wrong)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:18 PM

1 min ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek If she's generally asking about the situation, sure, but in this case she specifically asked about the deletion criteria, so not.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog but it ended up being that no?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Agree

@JourneymanGeek I favor Makyen's theory of curating the question as it is written

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I disagree

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

(which means that I do sometimes edit questions so they're on-topic; see my suggested edits on IPS)

Journeyman Geek

Humans don't always manage to precisely say what they mean

So you absolutely do need to consider context beyond the literal in meta IMO

For all my sins. Sometimes I do helpdesk duty.

If a user calls in and reports "the thing isn't working"

I do need to ask for more information

Margarine

1:20 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog To which I put forward Ernest Mayer's interpretation of Darwin's work

Wait wait

Journeyman Geek

BUT if I know they replaced the mk1 encombulator with a MK2 and then the user reports an MK1 issue

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I do bridge the gap by helping the user by editing the dupe comment, in which case both issues are solved (curation and helping)

Journeyman Geek

I absolutely need to go beyond the user report.

Margarine

We need to consider the epsilon factor for cases where the zeta function's application is questionable.

Journeyman Geek

(on the bright side, if there's such a thing as karma, I think my last job and this ought to be paying it off at an accelerated rate 😊)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:22 PM

@JourneymanGeek There are three dupe votes already so even if people do pick that the duplicate reason will override it

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog sure, but I'm probably free to argue loudly about overenthisiastic closures against community FAQs

and maybe someone might even listen ;)

Margarine

Another rule of thumb is if you just spent 15 minutes figuring out what to close it with you're setting the precedent wrong.

I'm listening but not helping.

Journeyman Geek

So in this context

she's clearly done her homework and read the FAQ

@Margarine that's pretty true

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek As I said, I'm not voting to close as the FAQ, but a different post.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog and it gets closed anyway

What's the net benefit to the community?

Margarine

1:25 PM

Wait

What are you VTCing it as a dupe of?

Journeyman Geek

I'm not!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Margarine A dupe of this (not an FAQ)

The "Roomba documentation" I previously referred to

Journeyman Geek

I'm apparently just engaged in the time honoured tradition of jousting with large wind powered devices.

Magisch

just pulling cables from prod switches and then swapping the switch

I know what I'm doing yet it feels like I do not

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek There's a difference between not listening at all, and listening, rebutting, and deciding to disagree

Margarine

1:28 PM

Well, you're right, and Journey's right too

Unfortunately

You could say 'duping it would indicate when the related changes were rolled out' or whatever, but it's still zilch net benefit to anyone

On the other hand, it's your CV, and it's not the wrong dupe (unlike what I thought)

Journeyman Geek

1:48 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well - in general. Lots of folks disagree with my slightly more permissive viewpoints on dupes and MSE as helpdesk but if you have influence, you might as well spend a little goodwill right?

rene

2:33 PM

→ 5 messages moved to Chimney

user437611

3:45 PM

Hi, I remember there was a post explaining that Google (and other search engines) optimize for those SE posts which have greater number of votes. Does anyone have the link handy?

Makyen

3:57 PM

@JourneymanGeek The cv-pls, as written, was either a script failure or an operator-failure on my part. I wasn't aware it was posted until now. From what records I have, it looks more like operator error than script failure. Sorry about that. My opinion is that the question, as written, is a duplicate of either/both the FAQ and/or the Q&A describing the Roomba. At a minimum, the close-reason in the cv-pls should be "duplicate".

However, that question, and the confusion I've seen expressed by other people from time to time in SOCVR over this specific issue, do point out that the deletion FAQ, the Q&A describing the Roomba, and the Roomba help page could be worded more clearly to reduce/eliminate this specific confusion. However, a request to have those edited would be a different question. Note: the FAQ has already been edited.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I have now VtC. I had not done so, because I was tired and a userscript I use for close-voting on SO makes it a bit easier for me to think that I've already CVed on other sites when I actually haven't.

No Distraction Wizard

4:38 PM

@MSE Mods: just a heads-up, I flagged some specific comments as NLN on this answer because I believe they are already NLN.

Makyen

4:53 PM

To be a bit more clear on my position: IMO, all 3 of the references I linked above, as they were when the current question was posted, explicitly gave the reason why the question being asked about was deleted, which completely covers what was asked about in the, now closed, question. The now closed question arose because the user misread those pages. Based on those references, there was no edge case for the user to be confused about.

The user, and other users, misreading those references indicates that the references could be more clear, but not that they don't actually answer the question.

There was a recent change to how the Roomba works, described in a different question, which is not mentioned in any of those references. That change, as restated/verified in comments on the answer, indicated that the question would not qualify for the Roomba that week, but would the next week.

However, the comments on that answer were inaccurate. What is actually stated in the answer does clearly describe the change, indicating that the question would qualify for the Roomba (i.e. just as if there had been no change made to how the Roomba worked).

No Distraction Wizard

I'm a simple person. Does it mean Roomba Forecaster should be updated?

Margarine

AAAAA what's with all the serious message with hyperlinks?

I don't feel like reading them

@NoDistractionWizard I think it just means you're a simple person.

rene

@NoDistractionWizard yeah, I have much more success with these kind of comments flags since we have actual moderators.

Makyen

5:30 PM

@NoDistractionWizard It means that the current version of the Roomba Forecaster will, under some relatively uncommon conditions, show that a question will be deleted one week sooner than it actually will be. I have not decided if I will update Roomba Forecaster to check for this issue. Roomba Forecaster could certainly handle some portions of the change, but fully implementing it will require significant changes, including either an extra SE API call per question, or fetching and parsing the timeline page.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

9:30 PM

@NoDistractionWizard Spoiler alert: Makyen is more detail-oriented than I am

Shadow Wizard

10:15 PM

@rene only third place so far... Shame! ;)

plz-delete circuit meta.stackexchange.com/questions/328367/… @Bart @rene @Glorfindel

Makyen

10:50 PM

@Margarine BTW: Some information in your profile is a bit inaccurate. You might want to take a look at this search on MSO and this search on MSE. Note that there have been 3 additions to posts with record numbers of downvotes in the last year, including this one a few days ago. Obviously, other sites may need to be checked.

IIRC, only one of the posts in those searches was from someone who is not, or was not, an SE employee.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Wat nou! We won!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@VoteDukakis 2-day username change reminder

Rob

11:26 PM

NDW has a spell to repel distractions.

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