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12:02 AM
@forest They're an entity that's been cursed to enter and leave the room forever. It's just coincidence
So they've been doing this long before I joined? Damn they got a lot of time.
Or a script.
@Rob If the result is going to be the same, I really would love to drive an F-16, thank you
I don't think that they would ship you one. :(
They're robbing me of my rights.
I just wanna make Rob puns Bob.
They might fly one overhead.
12:06 AM
Don't let it rub you the wrong way.
and Marmalaide wasn't funny ...
Is it 30 days yet
@forest not really. You just noticed though
> Display name may only be changed once every 30 days; you may change again in 8 days
My underwear is gonna be radioactive by then.
> help me get a question off hold [on hold]
12:14 AM
They make shields.
Maybe if they tried to get it on hold, it would have gotten off hold. You know, like slippery fish
@Rob I'm not a sumo wrestler but thanks
Did you just imply I'm a baby?
Because although fairly accurate, you'd just be sparking a snark war, and I'm a war veteran.
12:33 AM
That's a crappy question but I don't think it's strictly off-topic.
@StephenRauch Would you tell me the SEDE URL for this?, if that's where it's from ...
I looked but couldn't find anything close.
ah, Evan
amusingly, I think closing it is a bad idea
Preparing for the dystopian future
I agree. I think it's an acceptable, if silly, question.
I don't think it's good to close a question because it's bad.
As long as it's on-topic.
Evan, you're a smart guy. Make your own with blackjack and hookers. — Aibobot 9 mins ago
I suggested red-flagging so the deletion gets attributed to Community
12:48 AM
How come?
@Rob That was me painstakingly entering my review count, by hand into excel, every single day for a year. Always meant to automate, never got around to it.
If a diamond deletes it, only another diamond can undelete
The issue here is that due to the nature of the user, the deletion can't be attributed to a specific mod, or else the user will harp on them
Q: Could we hide who deleted a post from normal users?

Journeyman GeekSo... I've had multiple users turn up on my blog, asking why posts were deleted - which is linked on my SU profile. Some are a little abusive. Another just threatened to hack my blog. I'm not engaging, not replying and figuring they'll go away. It's happened a few times already though. I'm guess...

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog eh, its a pop culture reference.
What's the issue?
@StephenRauch Thanks. BTW, it looks great, it should be on SEDE.
12:54 AM
Deleting as spam/abuse and immediately clearing the spam/abuse flags will attribute the deletion to Community
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I mean, with that specific comment
Really need a CM to do it
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog clearing red flags undeletes the post.
They'll harp on the CM
@Rob Really?
Like, I'm right here. And its the user, not the account, so if its something that's actually offensive....
12:55 AM
I thought it just disputes the spam flags, without clearing the Community user deletion and lock
@Machavity I just ended up throwing my personal blog behind a domain anonymisation service
and I use an address my dad owns.
(aibobot and JMG are the same person)
Yeah, I noticed the profile. I live in rooms with sock puppets every day :P
Jul 5 '18 at 3:53, by Makyen
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Hmmm... that's interesting. Do you switch bodies back and forth? I'd think it would be disorienting.
12:57 AM
@Machavity its more that I don't want to run my mod-account on a system I don't have full control of
@Rob Thanks, one interesting note in that chart is the drop in mid October corresponds to the fires in Northern California in which I had to evacuate from my house for a week, and it was hard to get online.
@StephenRauch that's a ... good excuse
I've seen graphics somewhat similar from SEDE produced by Shog, so that's why I thought that's how it was generated.
The first sock puppet.
While I'm in here, the title to the blog post causing all the angst was... really insufficient. It was like it was trying to channel Han Solo
@Machavity Its the equivilent of a "SOMETHING HAPPENED" error message
We know something happened, but not what (yet)
1:05 AM
I get that. But maybe something like "We had a security breach. We're investigating it" Security Update means... something security? Maybe Shog9 got a new lock for his door
I mean there are some data breaches we'll probably never understand. I'm kinda expecting that to get worse as time goes on
@Machavity The data is being hoarded by a couple people.
I think in a decade or so, more information will be made public. I doubt anyone will fully leak it though. The most that happens is access through friends of friends (etc).
@Machavity I wonder if it's related to that mysterious mod.
@forest pretty likely
Jon Clements isn't mysterious, he just prefers killing people in the shadows... OK, he's totally mysterious
It was odd to go through that trouble to earn one bronze badge when they could have filled out their "About Me" and earned 175 badges. It was like it was done by a tween and they tried playing with some of the knobs before they left.
@Machavity Now now. They never find the bodies
1:17 AM
The fun thing is that getting mod-level access often makes it possible to get significantly higher privileges quickly, because the surface area exposed to mods is very unlikely to be as heavily audited as those exposed to "untrusted" users.
@forest actually
@Rob It's just a common rule of thumb. Areas exposed to supposedly trusted users are less well-developed because of the assumption that they are, well, trusted users.
Everything we do it audited somewhere
Rule of thumb ...
1:18 AM
most of the obvious stuff certainly is
@Aibobot Presumably. They record a lot, but likely not everything.
At the very least, they don't keep pcaps.
which is actually super handy at times
It's very useful for security purposes.
@forest ehh, that is a lot deeper than mod powers
1:20 AM
Assuming log integrity is maintained.
and probably at the SRE level
Yeah I know. I mean that they can use that level of detail for analysis.
For example someone who elevated themselves to a site-wide mod by exploiting SE would likely have access to a lot of personal data, but detailed logs would allow admins to say with some confidence whether or not that data was actually accessed.
If you want to know what SE monitors...
bosun.org is a good start
@forest that would probably be application level
Q: The PII section in the mod dashboard should state which PII exactly it contains

Mad ScientistThere is a section in the moderator dashboard on user profiles that is called "Personally Identifiable Information (PII)". If you click on it, you see a whole bunch of information that is considered PII. This section explicitly warns that the access is logged, but what it doesn't tell you is wha...

We're told PII access logged
Rule of thumb, if you need more than a minute to think if something is consistent ...
I know that user name changes are logged, thanks to the Silk Road case.
1:25 AM
and from past experience - in the case of rogue moderators, they were able to backtrack their actions pretty heavily
Yeah I've had that happen on a site I used to run.
Luckily all database actions could be trivially reversed.
@forest lemme put it this way. If I go evil, SE can probably undo the damage with a little gentle swearing and elbowgrease, and maybe a script or three
I used to run a website with a lot of very unsavory and toxic folks, so every once in a while someone would flood the entire website with gore and child porn. It became extremely useful to be able to freeze the database and revert changes instantly.
@forest kinda amusingly
the big danger for SE is folks being too enthusiastic for most part
How so?
1:28 AM
Well, lets say you want to get rid of a certain class of thing
its too tempting to script it
Ah like auto-flag bots?
I once had someone flood flags for comments with swearwords. Which in theory was fine, but they were naive matching, and the sheer volume made other flags hard to see
that's one example yes
Scunthorp problem? :P
or say you need/want to remove a tag....
@forest bit deeper
how would I put it
There's nothing wrong with what he did
just how he did it
Automation without sufficient testing, that kind of thing?
Mass-tag removal/renaming/etc?
1:30 AM
yeah, and trying to get community consensus and a good, workable, non disruptive way of doing things
I do flag cleanups sometimes
I've literally done 5 or 6 retags, every few hours, over months
I imagine automated flagging can get annoying.
it does
With someone who is obviously a troll or spammer
the choice is easy
When someone is clearly trying to do the right thing...
Or if they're just review bots.
It sometimes needs a bit more nuance
1:58 AM
Would anyone happen to know where I could find ISO/IEC 10118-3:2018?
It's behind a paywall and Sci-Hub and LibGen don't have it.
2:23 AM
@forest we don't do piracy ;p
also, if libgen/scihub/google or bing dosen't have it....
@Aibobot A lot of things are put behind paywalls opportunistically.
So it's not uncommon to try to find something that's not behind a paywall by finding it on another site (e.g. a university website or the author's own site).
@forest with things like this its intentional
but but
this isn't the place for it
Just saying
Oh well, just hoping someone might know off the top of their head.
Voted to re-open the "soreadytosue" question. While I don't agree with it and it does come off as abrasive, I don't think it should be closed.
2:39 AM
> I am little lost this morning. I find myself thinking about how, sure, the earth is spheroid in the third spatial dimension, but maybe it is also the curved back of a higher dimensional turtle. -- Kyle Brandt at 5:07 AM - 16 May 2019
I am not sure this works, because the curved back of a turtle would have a boundary: not all of its points are the same topologically.
But it could be the entire surface of a 4-dimensional, roughly spherical, turtle.
Also, if Kyle Brandt did not move on to another job two days ago, he would probably have less time to ponder high-dimensional turtles right now
Nevermind, looks like it was deleted lol
3:09 AM
My abuse flag was marked helpful
For what post?
@Machavity At least it wasn't "Spring Update 16.05.19" which is the format certain higher-ups use at my org when communicating unpleasant news.
That's one step away from "(no subject)".
3:19 AM
I still don't know why they do that. A super carefully written text, probably with legal counsel etc... maybe the goal is not to say anything in the title because lawyer-speak is poorly compatible with brevity?
Referring to the recent blog post?
User PII access is bad of course, but Teams data is where the main concern would have to be - the implications for business (and SO for Business) would be severe.
Yeah they're keeping the details hushed up for now.
@forest well, I'd assume they're trying to do responsible disclosure
3:24 AM
Well if they detected it by auditing it themselves, it's already been disclosed.
Also known as repdis.
Responsible disclosure is about telling a vendor about a security issue before telling everyone else. In this case, the vendor already knows and is avoiding telling everyone else despite the issue being fixed (presumably for PR reasons, but I don't know).
@forest and closing up and reviewing before they mention the exact vector
Cynicism aside, they're probably just reviewing it, you're right.
Most responsible companies are more open though, even at the beginning.
But at least they aren't hiding it.
As far as closed source internet services go...
SE is terrible at hiding anything
3:30 AM
Too many smart people in the community.
> Someone is smart on the Internet xkcd.com/386
I can't tell from the font if Randall capitalizes Internet or not. I still do.
I do when I'm not lazy.
> everyone is just "so I have a cluster of raspis... now the fuck what do I do with it?"
I have another question: how do you call a solid block of computronium?
Sometimes I think I need something to read to make me feel stupider
4:30 AM
hands @NoDistractionWizard a tabloid
5:08 AM
That's actually the least silly of the lot
5:46 AM
6:06 AM
@Aibobot Do you have Smokey privileges on your account?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no
AIbobot is as unpreviliedged as possible
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ✓ You are a privileged user.
@JourneymanGeek Does your main account automatically get privileges as a mod here?
6:08 AM
dont see why it wouldn't, iirc the check checks for the mod status on the chat page, which journey has
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog should
The whole point of aibobot, other than being terrible at being a low rep sock
is that I can run it on lower trust machines with no issues
if it gets compromised damage is limited to extreme embarassment and getting a proper aibo funeral.
My work VPN for example, probably intercepts some (many? all?) certs and does filtering
which breaks my ability to access stuff that's on a LE cert with HSTS
What's your main account?
6:21 AM
@forest ... duuuddddeeee
I'm like your favourite mod ;p
(I mean seriously, the dog theme, the user profile....)
The general lack of punctuation... ;)
6:44 AM
6:58 AM
The mysterious vanishing of scooby snacks in the tavern...
@Magisch Sure, that wasn't me :P
There's a thieving parrot abound
Sailing the high seas, yarr!
Feeling seasick.
puts @Tinkeringbell on a gyrostablised platform
.... which would probably make it worse.
@Aibobot I'm okay :P It's just a cold and lack of proper oxygen. I'll feel fine once that is over :)
7:12 AM
there's improper oxygen?
@Aibobot Yep :P
the cheap counterfeit product shipped out by the tank from the fake oxygen mines of elbonia?
That reminds me of a joke on yesterday
Why isn't your fish working?
@Magisch Something with schooling :P
7:13 AM
improper schooling
I don't go to school...
@Aibobot Yep :P Nah, a lack of proper amounts of oxygen :P
(and apparently this office's internet is laggy as usual)
What's wrong with your oxygen supply?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog It's severely hindered by having a cold.
I feel like I've been running, while I'm just sitting behind my desk
7:15 AM
Have you taken your temperature?
Yep, I'm hot... as always.
@Tinkeringbell ugh, that also reminds me of 2 days ago when the ACs were broken at our office...
@Tinkeringbell As in, an actual reading?
@NoDistractionWizard Want to switch? We have an actual overactive unit... we use whiteboards and banners to create 'wind-free' nooks :/
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Nope ;)
One time I contracted a cold and the doctor asked me if I had taken any readings, when I said yes she said 95% of people don't and doing so helps tremendously
7:18 AM
Its not about you though ;p
How does it help? Then your feeling bad has a number attached to it? :/
I think @Tinkeringbell tried to make a funny
I feel 39 today.
that's really old on the internet
It helps you gauge how much fever reducer you should take
7:19 AM
Quite old...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Paracetamol is taken by the clock here, not the amount of fever you have. ;)
Colds don't give you a fever
It can for some people.
@Rob Nah, it's me (my immune system) that gives me a fever ;)
Some days I just hate myself.
I have too much fever, like it's encouraged
7:20 AM
@forest Are you sure they didn't have the flu, rather than a cold?
@Tinkeringbell Ah fair enough, that sucks :(
@Rob Flu? In spring? :P
Yes. Rhinovirus infections, which cause the cold, can cause a fever.
its only 3
(by a certain Korean rhythm game)
7:21 AM
Allergies are a reason I specifically opted for a new building with concrete as the construction material as my apartment
But the fevers are rarely high, and it doesn't happen to everyone.
Huh.. never heard of that
Most of the time, you don't feel shitty enough to even notice a fever.
I mean it's pretty much always a low-grade fever.
@Tinkeringbell It's (nearly) winter where it matters here ;)
High fevers are indicative of co-morbid infections or the flu.
7:22 AM
@Rob Winter? In May? :P
More accurately.. in 2 weeks
Sure feels like winter, though
Well, have fun, I guess? :) I'll be thinking of you when I'm enjoying the sun ;)
My immune system weakens when breathing in cold air (which means coats/blankets don't help). I was once attending a hackathon in Dallas where someone had turned the thermostat to extreme cold in the communal sleep room, and I ended up catching a virus and was down for a large part of the 36 hours
I just got a cold because someone on the train got a cold and sneezed. It happens all the time, no need to worry.
7:24 AM
Big datacenters' server rooms can be horrifically cold as well, to the point that it could be dangerous if you got locked in (though I guess you could start a fire if you really needed it, and had a bit of a death wish). I got sick from that.
@Rob Is winter any good over there? With lots of snow and winter sports?
@Tinkeringbell thus showing the importance of covering your mouth and nose, and washing your hands
I wish. Nah, it's just cold and wet
@forest I kinda want that turned into a movie now. :P
7:25 AM
It was 39C here yesterday. That was nice.
Although we rarely get below 0c, it feels way colder than it actually is. -20 when I was overseas felt better than 2-3c here
@forest Took a tour of one and got cold feet.
I wonder how Nick manages
eh, that's why a lot of techies wear hoodies
and you generally don't spend thatmuch time in a datacenter or server room unless things go wrong
I mean, literally, cold feet, because the AC ducts run through the floor
That's why SSH and KVM is so awesome.
7:26 AM
@Aibobot Oh. I thought that was because it's the only sensible piece of clothing out there...
@Aibobot And yet things go wrong anyway. :P
@Rob Strange. Winters here are usually just cold and wet too, but if it ever reaches -20 I'm not going outside :P
@forest actually, on good, proper servers, IPMI varients mean you rarely have to be at a server unless you need to physically swap things.
@Aibobot I wear nearly exclusively hoodies but for a different reason
They're easy clothes that dont need prep, are comfy and adaptable to most climates
That's why I mentioned KVM (as in Keyboard Video Mouse, not Kernel Virtual Machine)
7:28 AM
@Tinkeringbell I guess the main thing is the city was designed for extremely cold temperatures. Central heating, double glazed windows, and the clothing in general. Here... not so much. At least my apartment is decently warm
@forest KVM is local though
In San Diego we literally consider any temperature below 10 as "too cold"
I've used fiber optic KVM over half a kilometer.
IPMI is glorious as a tool, and terrible in its implimentation.
@forest I installed an OS from scratch on a server in france I have never seen, from asia, over IPMI.
IPMI is a great way to pwn giant datacenters for little to know effort lol
7:29 AM
see "terrible"
@Rob And...not equipped with air conditioning?
they often use random, specific outdated versions of java and often plain suck
Dell's implementation is even worse.
@Rob Ah. Yeah, we have that too (central heating, double glazed windows). The clothing, especially the female ones, has massive room for improvement (it's always a struggle to find something I don't have to wear three layers of to stay proper warm, and doesn't look like I'm going to the Alps for winter sports).
I usually wear a blanket when I'm home because of that ;)
7:30 AM
iLO or whatever they call it.
@forest they're all... questionable in some way
iLO is HP
I can't for the life of me remember what the dell one is
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Hmm, now that I think of it.. nope, we didn't have AC. In summer it reached 35ish, but I don't remember ever feeling too hot
Which one is Dell then, iDRAC?
IPMI is both the standard and what super micro calls their spin
ah, yeah iDRAC is dell
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog To be honest if you have double glazed windows and a sun screen, you can keep out a lot of heat, and don't need an AC
7:31 AM
I always mix that up. I never really use IPMI or anything like it anyway.
@Tinkeringbell I bought a 'ski jacket' here before I moved. It was comically large compared to what I've seen. Over there, it was suitable for autumn, and would be laughably bad for winter
I mean it's good if you're used to it I guess, but I like being able to plug in a cable.
@rene so Duncan won? ;)
@Tinkeringbell the hoodie I own is from my old employer, who are slightly british, so its warm
a little too much so for the tropics sometimes
@Rob I think someone linked a video around christmas... of a woman that went sledding, and the amount of layers she was wearing... that was just comical
All I could think was... 'but what if you have to pee'.
7:32 AM
That just means she's using the wrong materials.
Either that, or she's a lava monster.
@ShadowWizard 'won'? 'won' will have to wait until Saturday ;)
@Aibobot Yep :)
Our countries singer is at the top of the bookmaker lists for a long while now
So expectations are a bit... unrealistic
@Tinkeringbell well, I mean won a ticket to the finals... ;)
I'm not sure winning is the correct term....
7:38 AM
@ShadowWizard Yep, he's through. Got announced as second out of 10, so not much excitement there ;)
where was Loreen from back in I think 2016 or so?
Thats the only eurovision song I still remember
@Magisch '12
was that also sweden
I think so
8:27 AM
I'm ignoring the Eurovision...
@Mithrandir why?
most of the songs are just annoying, and it's taking the tourists to the other side of the country instead of up here paying me :p
@Mithrandir Ah. Yeah, there aren't many great song this year, I agree. ;) As for the tourists... that sounds annoying ;)
8:43 AM
I always think of Eurodance every time I hear Eurovision...
9:05 AM
@Tinkeringbell What's up with your chat description?
@Magisch Why are you even looking at that :P
I like rumpelstiltskin ;)
@Tinkeringbell curiosity (not cat killing or mars rovers) :p
I think I added it sometime when I had the brilliant idea that on the internet, no-one knew who I really am ;)
indeed, you could be a green parrot irl and the whole disliking them thing is a mask to fool us all
Don't worry...
9:09 AM
@Magisch or a blue one
they're tricky things
saw one trying to pick a lock once
or even a grey one
I'll never be a grey one. Grey ones are boring
But the one grey parrot I knew was not boring
very talkative
ok, at the bird park...
its a thing
the reds were boring
the greys looked judgy as heck
the blues... the adults were trying to pick locks. THe juvanies were carefully trying to dismantle their cage and dropping food bowls
I'm weary of birds as of late considering last time I went to the petting zoo I got chased by an emu looking for food
9:21 AM
@Aibobot I mean, it's a bird park. Those birds are locked up for a reason!
Totally not comparable with how normal red parrots live their lives
@Tinkeringbell oh, also there was an emo black cocatoo
9:51 AM
@Aibobot the best
Gee that YMCA was sure a holdout!
10:28 AM
Remember to visit the easy to earn Bounty rather letting it go to waste or be automatically awarded to an anti-answer. It may be puny but it's rep on Meta.
10:54 AM
Flags as bounty spam
11:16 AM
Butter is better!
11:59 AM
@Tinkeringbell just got this. Now what? Please advice.

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