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6:11 PM
@NoDistractionWizard For some reason, the stuff it picks up is the content of bullets. :/
 
@Catija I clicked on the link half-expecting the blog post to end with ROBOTS CANNOT LOVE
 
user302202
@rene I checked the tags on my WordPress blog, it has <p> in the expected places.
 
Yeah, I just checked an other blog post on SO. it does have proper paragraph tags inside the div.m-post-content.
 
user302202
And now both blog posts are in the sidebar network-wide. Redundancy!
 
They're in the network-wide sidebar network-wide.
 
6:25 PM
So some people did have their personal information obtained by this event.
hm
 
user302202
The first post was title "Security Update", so the second should have been "Update to Security Update".
 
user302202
To be followed by "Update to Update to Security Update"
 
Well, mods can see PII of any accounts on their site (and the action is logged)
 
@NoDistractionWizard Yeah I imagine the information taken was a result of standard moderator actions that were logged.
 
Rob
Better?, @rene
 
6:37 PM
Well, this is why I'm glad to always use Tor and a useless email account. :P
 
@forest oh, it's not that bad. Most spam actually makes me laugh ;)
 
Spam is not too bad yeah. I like wasting spammer's time. :P
 
@forest I often get stuff... Last week I got one that filmed me? I don't even have a webcam hooked up to my PC :/
And I get fines for sitting on the couch and going over the speed limit
 
Oh yeah all the ones from fbi-official-investigation@gmail.com telling you the FBI has caught you doing something and you need to send $500 through Western Union?
 
Plot twist: my monitor is actually a web camera
 
6:44 PM
I almost got in trouble for not paying the dentist though, but I never gave them consent for using my email for billing so I wrote those of as phishing too
 
@Tinkeringbell ghosts in horror movies always haunt European women.
Don't worry, two scenes later you're axing the ghost.
Legit science.
 
@Margarine it's on my bucket list. Axe a ghost ;)
It would be weird if ghosts are real.
 
@Tinkeringbell I wouldn't be surprised
If physics works differently at very high speeds or very little space, then why shouldn't there be other circumstances where it works differently?
Considering that, to my knowledge, we still don't know what connects these two circumstances.
What would be weird is us perceiving it
We really have no way of 'seeing' an atom in the traditional sense
It's probably arrogant to assume our minds can comprehend all the phenomena in the universe, but then again, what's 'comprehension'?
This is too deep. I can't swim.
 
@Margarine AFM is capable of visualizing an atom accurately.
And some atoms can glow so brightly that you can see them with the naked eye.
 
Visualizing being the keyword
 
6:53 PM
(If you're shining a powerful enough laser on them)
 
You see the traces, it's not an object in the normal sense.
The definition of seeing would fall apart if we include those as seeing.
 
@Margarine I dunno. I like ghosts in (some) horror movies, but I was recently told that my 'suspension of disbelief' is really bad. So ... Yeah. Ghosts aren't real or a problem to me :P
 
@Tinkeringbell what I'm saying is even if they are they won't be a problem
 
@forest So that tiny purple speck that looks like my screen malfunctioning is an atom? Awesome :D
 
6:56 PM
That image is of a single atom, visible in that you are seeing photons from that individual atom. It's glowing very, very brightly.
 
You'd think something whose physics you can't understand has better ways of pranking you than turning on your oven.
@forest yep, not the normal definition of seeing.
 
@Margarine yeah, they always scratch and mock Christianity too. From what I've seen from ghost hunter shows :P
 
(Can't see the image, but I know what it looks like)
 
@Margarine seeing is seeing. It has an awesome tiny purple speck.
 
@Margarine So is "seeing" only when something reflects enough visible light in daylight conditions? If you can only see something with bright enough light shining on it, is that not "seeing"? What if it produces its own light? Is that not "seeing"?
 
6:58 PM
@Tinkeringbell And write the German article on the wall
 
For AFM it makes sense to say that it's not really seeing, because it involves a machine physically touching the atom and generating a computer image of what it feels, but in this case, every photon that you are seeing is coming from one atom.
 
@forest that's waaay too philosophical :)
 
@forest You observed the changed behavior of light around that thing, it's not the same as seeing this boring theology book in front of me
 
@Margarine ? I don't get that one.
 
@Margarine I believe it's the atom itself emitting the photons, not something around it.
 
6:59 PM
We could of course stretch the definition, but that's not particularly satisfying
 
Guess I need to watch a few more shows
 
@forest absorbs, then emits. Blah blah, Not. The. Same.
 
@Margarine If there are a trillion atoms all releasing a few photons, you would say you can see it (a spec of dust, for example). How is that different from one atom releasing a lot of photons?
@Margarine Literally everything you see right now is atoms absorbing then emitting. :P
 
Well it's not that simple. A fundamental part of what we perceive is how those particles interact
 
What do you mean?
 
7:01 PM
It wouldn't at all be the same with absorption and emission
 
@Margarine oh boy. Interpersonal Skills, particle edition
 
@forest How do you manage to see a uniform green, and the perception of depth and other things
 
@Margarine That's perception, not sensation.
 
@Tinkeringbell my molecules are blushing
 
I suppose you could argue that we never really "see" anything, in that sense.
After all, we're only perceiving the effects objects have on our retina.
But seeing that one atom and seeing a trillion atoms is no different.
 
7:03 PM
(I feel like I should have responded to a message from earlier; can't find it. I'm sure they'll understand)
 
It's just that this one atom is emitting enough photons that we are capable of seeing it, whereas otherwise one atom would not emit nearly enough to cause a response.
 
@forest well, part of that perception is fundamental to 'seeing' any macroscopic object around us
So inseparable from the process, more or less.
 
@Margarine 'what is the proper etiquette to form a water molecule?'
 
@Tinkeringbell if you call it 'wet' that's racist.
 
@Margarine Sure it is, but that one atom behaves the same way to our perception as a macroscopic object. It is subject to depth perception, the opponent process in the retina allows us to perceive an aggregate wavelength, etc.
 
7:05 PM
See, even this wetness wouldn't be possible on a microscopic level. One, or few molecules wouldn't be wet, even if we could feel them
 
Actually it is. It's called a hydrogen shell. :P
Individual ions can get "wet" (coated in water molecules).
(Not that it would feel wet, of course)
 
Oh, solvation you mean
I thought you made a point I can't counter, and that scared me.
 
lol
I'm thinking from a biochemistry perspective.
But yes, a hydrogen shell is a solvation shell with water.
 
I'm thinking from an armchair perspective
 
*hydration shell derp
 
7:08 PM
Well, that wouldn't feel wet, again, unless you broaden the definition
 
You're right. And it kind of bends the definition of "wet".
Someone needs to give this sodium a towel!
 
Something like zombies in Shaun of the Dead.
 
Here's a deep philosophical question regarding sensation and perception:
How can our eyes be real if mirrors are not???
 
Logic says yes, on the basis that mirrors are real
 
Tags along Jan/John, you're in.
 
7:17 PM
Interestingly enough, it also says that if mirrors aren't real, then neither are eyes, with the same reasoning
 
Reality is such a weak construct...
 
Careful, you might cause a deductive explosion.
@canon Reality is not a construct though.
 
Sure it is.
 
It's just the sum of all existing things.
 
Existence is also a construct.
 
7:20 PM
It's the global scope that our brains' simulations store their data in
 
How do you define construct, then?
 
@JohnDvorak Nobody told God not to use globals. /rimshot
 
God created an API for its constructs to access shared memory space. And God saw it was good.
 
As crappy as the coding may be, the physics engine is pretty solid. No one's been able to find infinite energy glitches yet.
But it would be nicer if it used higher-precision floating point arithmetic.
Lyapunov time can be a pain. Rounding errors strike again!
 
7:24 PM
We did discover some weird behavior caused by the floating point error compensator
... and we're just about to build a functional computer out of that behavior
 
oh?
 
The trick is to abuse the stochastic bits of the compensator to compute really complicated probabilities and then try to infer something useful from which outcome is the most probable.
 
Sounds like a quantum computer.
 
That's how humans call it, yes
 
:P
Next up on Accidentally Turing Complete!
 
7:34 PM
What do you call it? Computer with existential crisis?
 
magic box
 
That's TV
 
You put some atoms in here and there and if you're really, really gentle with them, you can close your eyes and when you open them, they'll be rearranged!
 
Ah, the early experiments in video streaming services. How quaint.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:44 PM
heh, managed to get an answer in on the MSO post before it got closed again :')
 
voted to reopen even though I'm skeptical about any good coming from it
 
Which one?
 
the one inciting a review strike
 
link?
 
56
Q: Declaring a Review strike until efficiency improvements are implemented

ivan_pozdeevReviewing (together with interlinking existing content) is one of the key tasks for the SO community now that the site is past its initial growth stage. And the infamous overload of review queues and other community feedback shows that the current mechanism for that task is not efficient enough. ...

Weird, I thought Cerbrus was a diamond.
 
8:51 PM
rv'd
 
one to go
so polarizing, this post
 
I imagine SO has a real problem with large review queues?
 
ionizing, even?
@forest It's over 9000
 
i mean, but is that a "problem"
 
Kinda sorta. If you only care for large user base, then no. It helps the vampires to feed.
 
8:54 PM
true, and every year, there's a new wave of people willing to answer everything
 
If you care for site quality, questions not getting closed is a problem
 
Then they get tired of repeating the same answers and the process repeats
 
Isn't that what close as duplicate is for?
 
yeah, but people see closing as unhelpful
and answering earns them points
 
You get more points answering than dupe-closing, and it's easier
 
user302202
8:57 PM
> UPDATE: We can now confirm that our investigation suggests the requests in question affected approximately 250 public network users. Affected users will be notified by us.
 
user302202
There we have it, an update to the update of security update.
 
user302202
Blog posts don't get bumped by edits.
 
At least they didn't get hit as bad as Quora.
 
It got caught fast I suspect
 
Well Quora's was a total database breach.
This looks like privilege escalation to mod, gaining access to sensitive info.
 
9:01 PM
OK... dev -> prod escalation is kind of an issue...
 
Yes, yes indeed.
 
Isn't there supposed to be total isolation between 1) dev and prod and 2) dev and the world?
both of which were absent
 
I worked with someone who did all his dev work on an ancient Windows 2000 machine. Whenever he wasn't on ancient Windows, he was using an even more ancient UNIX machine. Everything he did on there, he pushed to prod.
@JohnDvorak Yes, always.
 
so... epic fail?
 
@JohnDvorak Yep. Hopefully SE learns from this.
 
user302202
9:03 PM
There were amusing speculations on Twitter that the attacker wanted edit access to SO answers, in order to introduce security vulnerabilities.
 
What do you mean, like XSS, to screw people visiting the site?
 
@VoteDukakis That's... kinda petty
 
user302202
More like, unnecessary.
 
I mean, if you're going to gain unlimited access to a website used by 6 000 000 people worldwide, you gotta go big
 
It very well could just be someone who was merely curious.
A lot of hackers just want to break things for fun.
 
9:06 PM
pranks like replacing the homepage with an animated skull are the bare minimum
That's true.
 
Well at least they didn't replace the homepage with Last Measure or similar. :P
 
But then again they did gain unauthorized access to some data
 
That software creates popups of shock images that jump around the screen each time you move your mouse to it, and downloads hundreds of empty files.
It's hilarious and at the same time the most intrusive way to deface anything.
@JohnDvorak Basically the same data that mods can already see, if I'm not mistaken.
 
TIL there's a wiki site about shock sites
 
heh, not surprising
Some might say Encyclopedia Dramatica is a wiki about shock sites, too.
That's what my profile picture is of (ED mascot), from back in the day. :P
 
9:09 PM
from the Last Measure page:
> FLASHING LIGHTS
This page is about a screamer which may contain flashing images
 
Fun fact: One of the head developers for Debian and VLC was a major contributor to Last Measure and various old troll hacker groups.
And the creator of the WTFPL. :P
 
Also from the same page:
> WARNING: The following websites contain pornographic content, and will also harm your computer
 
It doesn't actually harm the computer but it does download hundreds of empty WMV files, and loudly plays audio saying "hey everyone, I'm watching gay porno".
So harmful? Yes, but not to the computer itself.
 
Nice
It could be harmful to the computer by extension. You visit the site while at work, get fired, machine gets flashed
 
Some of the tricks it used don't work on modern browsers anymore though, like controlling the position of a popup window in real time. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have a window with horribly offensive contents pop up which literally runs away from your mouse when you try to navigate to the X to close it.
The creators used to register a bunch of sites with benign names like feenode (typo of freenode) or wikipaste or biogspot (typo of blogspot) and put LM on it.
 
user302202
9:17 PM
> biogspot (typo of blogspot)
 
At least you wouldn't have 10000 tabs open back then, so task manager kill collaterals would be minimal
 
user302202
 
true
 
or even a power cycle
Remember window.alert loops?
 
user302202
OK, we have enough ideas here for SO to use on April 1 of 2020.
 
9:19 PM
Are we settled in for animated unicorns with fake x buttons then?
with a 0.1% chance of an audible neigh per page
 
Abuse proto handlers like callto:// :P
 
The old internet was so, so fun.
 
that close/reopen war, though... meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/385023/revisions
 
If something gets reopened so many times, it should just stay open.
 
9:27 PM
... or closed
 
lol
 
Or maybe have a random probability of accepting an answer or deleting the draft based on how long it has been opened vs closed
 
9:52 PM
Why does m.erwaysoftware.com take so long to load?
 
IDK ask @Undo?
 
@forest because it is on a cheap plan on AWS?
 
I've used dial-up faster than that. O_o
 
and I'm sure you can host it on your phone.
 
10:20 PM
@forest because I am busy, incompetent, and cheap
in that order
 
10:54 PM
wtf is happy hour
 
A test for chat events a long time ago...which stuck
 
?
 
Doesn't mean much today...though Catija used to hang out here during this time back before she began working for SE
After that, it stopped meaning much for this room
 
So it's just a name? It doesn't change any properties of the chat?
 
No...just search "chat events" on Meta
 
10:56 PM
k
If only the join/part animation didn't slow down my browser...
JavaScript was not meant for such heavy things initially.
 
If you think that's the worst animation built in to chat, try executing the Wheel of Blame Easter egg. (It's there in SE, you just need a helper script to access it, or you can manually type in the commands in your JS console.)
 
11:21 PM
Happy hour predates me by a lot... and I wasn't here because of happy hour... I was here pretty much every weekday at that time.
 
@forest The same could be said for closure: "If something gets closed so many times, it should just stay closed." (Equal number of times closed and reopened = 2).
 
@Namaste My point was that the benefit of the doubt should be given.
As in, if something is even remotely acceptable, it should be permitted.
After all, if half a jury thinks someone is innocent, they'll be acquitted.
 
@forest Thanks for clarifying your original comment, which was posted without any supportive argument.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog technically cat hangs out here all the time
@forest its kind of a way to run events
I suspect that someone set it up in the early days to test it
and no one remembered why or the heart to remove it
 
I'm being spammed to tell you guys that "IP suspension means nothing".
Or something like that.
 
11:34 PM
 
@forest if you ignore them, they will eventually go away
 
:o
 
@JourneymanGeek The image supports your claim: "cat hangs out here all the time" :-)
 

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