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Rob
12:46 AM
@Mithrandir The irony isn't the worst part (read the comments there, which point to), it's the destiny. ⚪📤
 
 
5 hours later…
6:17 AM
My boa tride
 
8 messages moved to Chimney
 
6:31 AM
needs 1 moar userscript
 
^ The mostest correctest answer
 
 
2 hours later…
8:45 AM
How does one get 20k on MSE?
 
By congratulating new employees?
 
@JohnDvorak mild annoyance helped
 
I'm mildly annoyed all the time; how does that help me get 20k on meta?
 
then you gotta post
then influence people
 
"I'm mildy annoyed by MSE mods"
 
8:53 AM
Ah, questions. Gotcha.
 
... certainly won't help getting 20k on meta...
 
9:07 AM
@GetAnswerWizard oddly, someone saying that about me as a SU mod is what got me to 20k on MSE
If you want a long answer - for me being a mod helped hugely - but folks manage 100k without needing that, and I'm merely at 50K.
As with any site, consistantly posting answers of high quality and actually getting the feel of the "crowd" helps
for better or worse, rep on MSE is a popularity/trust thing
 
9:34 AM
Will anybody have a problem with me testing some possible bug related to improving suggested edits? I would use a sandbox post and an anonymous edit.
 
errrrrr
 
It would be my sandbox post
 
@MEEthesetupwizard would you be reviewing your own edit?
 
basically yes. I would be improving an suggested edit by an anonymous user (not logged in)
 
eh
Keep me posted on what post, and if there's any issues at least we have an audit trail of sorts
 
9:38 AM
It's this answer:
0
A: Formatting Sandbox

MEE the setup wizardThis s a test related to a recent bug report about moderators converting an answer to a comment and undeleting it. Mods: Please convert this answer to a comment and undelete it. I want to see what happens when I re-delete the answer myself. Edit: nevermind. My theory has been confirmed; this ha...

but it is mostly a design issue, not a complicated one (strange banner)
Mmh, can't reproduce.
Seems to be a one-time-only thing
 
 
2 hours later…
12:07 PM
@JohnDvorak You side yourself with the majority and not post anything that others are likely to disagree with.
3
 
Not really true
I'm happy to tell the majority they're wrong
 
As long as not all of your posts are saying things people will be upset to hear, you'll net a positive
 
Or you say things people don't want to hear, in a way that they're ok with
(actually, if you think about it, If you pick your battles and critique SO in a constructive way, you'll end up with a lot of rep. Might even be a mod. ;p)
 
You also should not ask inane questions that are otherwise on-topic, but that aren't as relevant to others and only really exist to satisfy curiosity
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog well, that dosen't help no
And on nearly every site, answering more than you ask helps
On most sites, I'd say pick something that you have subject matter expertise on and focus on that. I mean, its true on MSE, but finding that thing is hard
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog I literally meant the company
 
That's why I always use the legal name "Stack Exchange, Inc." when referring to the company. The brand name is confusing.
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog I call em SO when I'm mad at em ;)
 
Anyway, is there a way I could have phrased that question better so it would have gotten a less negative (possibly positive) score?
 
1. Its too long.
You don't need all that exposition.
I (unconciously) always try to fit a question into 1 page. So... 1) what's the problem you're trying to solve 2) how do you get people to buy into it being a problem? (a call to action 3) what is one possible solution to that problem.
 
12:38 PM
From what I've seen, if you want to make a good reconsideration request, you should explicitly indicate awareness of the older declined request, rebut the reasons for originally declining it, and introduce new arguments for implementing it that weren't in the previous request. By its very nature, it will end up long.
 
Well, I agreed with the problem, but disagreed with the approach, thus I downvoted.
 
"New users are losing their chance to get questions back into the reopen queue due to trivial edits" is a decent thesis statement.
What would be a good call to action?
what makes the problem matter to folks?
 
You: "I disagree with this request; don't mean anything bad against the author." System: "This request is so bad, the author should lose reputation for posting it." Huge disparity between the actual use of downvotes and the way the system treats it.
 
The system is people
Every single vote there is some person who read your posts, or worse, remembers who you are and reads your posts, and decides which way to vote for some reason.
 
@JourneymanGeek Those people are main site Q&A users, where there is indeed a match: "This question is of bad quality, the author should lose reputation." You're taking the different reasoning and plopping it in inappropriately.
 
12:41 PM
And guess who decides how the mechanics of the system changes? People.
 
I don't see how your question addresses the problem of people having to review edits that have no chance of being reopened.
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog I'm saying, if you don't realise the system is people you're not going to learn how to influence the system
 
So, what is the meaning of reputation to you? (deliberate sidetracking the topic)
 
This topic comes up from time to time, and I think the ultimate conclusion was that there's potentially a better system for meta.SE than a replica of rep on other SEs but it's too much effort to pull off
So what's the point in discussing it further?
 
12:44 PM
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard and its social/technical debt
 
@GetAnswerWizard From the reputation league page: "how much the community trusts you, your communication skills, andthe quality and relevancy of your questions and answers"
 
@JourneymanGeek nah... not you... you have THA DIAMONDO already... ;p
> your communication skills
 
@GetAnswerWizard ya, that's true.
 
@GetAnswerWizard He's been a cheater for such a long time he forgot
 
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard IIRC the reason for declining those systems (meta rep tied to site rep) would be because it would unfairly bias Stack Overflow users.
 
12:45 PM
@GetAnswerWizard Mine arn't that good. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. I'm sometimes baffled how I hit peeks 50K
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog No I'm talking about the point you've been making for the past . . . what . . . 6 months that rep on meta.SE doesn't make sense
 
Just because a community disagrees with a certain point of view doesn't mean that a user is less trusted, their communication skills are worse, or their posts are of lower quality or relevancy.
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog but how are you going to win over the community if you tell them "I'm right and you're wrong"?
 
And I mostly agree with it, but the effort required to change it and the confusion that would linger on for some time after that don't pay off with what little it attempts to fix
 
Cause that's essentially what you would be saying
 
12:47 PM
Yeah, let's just drop MSE and use Twitter...
 
Well, Tim Post has already said much of what I wanted to say.
 
while yes, shared rep would bias SO users, however, IMO that is fair, considering users with decent amounts of rep there have either been around for a long time, or have used the system to earn that rep. It's not like being on SO magically just gives you rep
 
No rep, no anything, and freedom of speech!
 
@GetAnswerWizard Pigeons shit on windshields. No.
 
@KevinB SO is so much bigger it would probably end up with the top 10-20 users being on SO
 
12:49 PM
@KevinB The problem of proportional vs. equal representation was discussed all the way back in 1787
 
I could also see a system where there is no rep, but, that very well could have the same problem that meta SO has, where votes are thrown around like candy
 
and it dosen't really reflect what you know about neta
 
because they don't matter
 
@KevinB and how we would work out privileges
 
I don't think we'd need to
 
12:49 PM
@KevinB Point. It's much much more likely to find -20-something posts there than here
 
cause at lower levels, those things do help prevent spam, in theory.
 
Alright, time to have dinner while preparing pop crop...
 
You could have two parallel voting systems: the existing one repurposed solely for quality and awards rep as usual, and a separate one for agreement/disagreement, which wouldn't affect rep in any way.
 
While that also relates to amount of participation, I have a very strong feeling there's a mildly strong correlation with no-rep-ness of votes
 
I think there does need to be some form of reputation
 
12:51 PM
@SonictheWizardWerehog would it be worth the effort to special case MSE though ? In theory, we do want a common codebase across sites.
 
but maybe not necessarily in the way we have reputation now
 
@JourneymanGeek It would simply be an extra system on top of the existing one.
 
We don't want to end up with another A51
 
4 mins ago, by M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard
And I mostly agree with it, but the effort required to change it and the confusion that would linger on for some time after that don't pay off with what little it attempts to fix
 
looks like we're back in time to the '90s mid 2018
 
12:51 PM
@SonictheWizardWerehog your definition of "simply" is not
2
 
The existing one would be kept
 
Its "just" another table..? with a different front end, calculations, people needing to learnt to use it...
 
one more place to post a bunch of FAQ posts rather than FAQ's being made more part of the site
 
MSE Documentation!
 
@KevinB while essential, the problem with FAQ posts is twofold.
firstly, they're not apparent to new users. Discovery is terrible
the other is its too tempting to turn them into rigid rulesets covering everything, rather than being a guide.
 
12:53 PM
Or actually, just use Medium like Monica...
 
i hate medium
 
Guiding Journey into rigid rulesets 101
 
@KevinB #MeToo
 
The t-shirt they sent me says XXL
 
huh, not XM?
 
12:54 PM
It probably translates to 4chan in internetese
@GetAnswerWizard That's be @Sha
Last I remember from his avatar he looked like a marshmallow on a stick
 
@GetAnswerWizard depends on your audience
 
The only avatar I can see is Ashley now
And Tim Stone
 
Or we could just create stackexchange.fandom.com and put all the FAQ on there...
(... it exists??????)
 
I personally keep SE stuff on SE unless there's a big reason
 
12:57 PM
And I'd personally work very hard to try to ensure we don't need to yell on twitter or medium to be heard
 
@JourneymanGeek Thank you. You're my hero.
 
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard I don't know how successful I'd be, but I'd chew on every ankle I can!
 
heh, funny... bone
 
@GetAnswerWizard It does? Our mission is to fill it with GemsFromSE then
 
The Jet Airways collapse makes it difficult to find cheap (but value) airfare
 
1:00 PM
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard I personally feel that every time there's something like the twitter storm - we can either get all cynical and angry, or use it as an opportunity for pushing the folks who run SE the right way when they lost their way.
 
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard nah I'm not that big
 
@JourneymanGeek Well, unfortunately, in a rather high-profile case, the former method ended up getting rewarded big-time
 
i mean
we ended up with a great solution
the ability to hide it entirely
 
1:15 PM
@JourneymanGeek Wha, there's been another drama recently?
Personally, I'm so tired and sick of this crap. I feel like there are more valuable things in life to be constantly reminded of than a reckless handing of a couple of decisions from people who 1) promised to do better, and 2) have at least taken one step towards doing better.
 
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard that was the point I was trying to make
 
@JourneymanGeek I realize half of the chats between you and me is validating each other's points and the other half is me being snarky.
 
Snark Exchange
2
 
1:34 PM
1
A: Custom question lists October status update

Monica CellioWhat is the status of previously-reported bugs and requests? Are they still being considered, or do we need to report them again? (This question brought to you by missing count for results.)

 
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard sometimes more
 
@SonictheWizardWerehog nah, they're still busy preparing whatever over the top april fools "joke" they've planned for next year
 
Anyway, I find that new users' posts tend to get downvoted (for valid reason), but I haven't figured out a good canned comment for downvoted new user questions, which I can leave to deflect "why downvotes" questions explain to new users the meaning of meta downvotes.
 
1:49 PM
@SonictheWizardWerehog canned comments suck.
4
 
I don't simply leave them; I use them as templates and tailor them as needed.
(the one exception is blatantly off-topic posts, but I do modify them if the question isn't suitable for any site)
 
batch of three: React, Cordova, SSH @Bart @rene @Glorfindel
Thank @Glor :)
 
all gone now
 
@Glorfindel If you wouldn't mind, make yourself pingable for some mor time
 
1:54 PM
He did by joining the room
Now he's pingable for 7 full days.
 
@ShadowWizard Really? I thought they need to have posted a message in the last seven days, or else they won't be pingable once they leave the room
 
@rene poof
@SonictheWizardWerehog nope, even just joining and leaving after a milisecond is enough.
 
@ShadowWizard Actually, someone sniped that from under you
 
Ask @Bart he keeps joining Den by mistake. :D
@SonictheWizardWerehog note it's not Kaboom, it just means the question is deleted, like we do with Smokey. ;)
 
1:59 PM
i'd rather new users be treated like any other member of the community. If they need some special messaging, the system is already more than capable of determining who is new and can provide the messaging needed. :shrug:
 
@JourneymanGeek NO U
 
canned meme also sucks
 
@Sonic I also felt the same thing but I've found out the meta downvote comment thing gets annoying for the regulars really fast so it's a 'don't leave it unless you absolutely have to' thing
@GetAnswerWizard UR FACE
And then a canned comment won't be necessarily anyway
@JourneymanGeek snark, or me being right and you accidentally being right at the same time?
 
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard yes
 
2:36 PM
@JourneymanGeek In case you wanted more evidence that the main reason why people post site-specific questions on MSE is because of honest reasons, not disruptive ones
 
2:52 PM
@SonictheWizardWerehog I believe I'm more or less capable of making up my own mind when it comes to specific posts
 
or they can't post on per-site meta because they need rep...
wait, what are we talking about? downvoting? site-specific post? not knowing there's child meta?
 
"see, i was right"
 
@KevinB that's easy.
Saying "I was wrong" is harder ;)
but a useful life skill.
The fun starts when you have people doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the opposite
 
Saying "I was right" is the best way to show that you're smart, but
Saying "I was wrong" is the best way to show that you're a human
(wonder if it will be flagged or not...)
 
@GetAnswerWizard really smart people realize they can be wrong
Humility can be a sign of intelligence
 
3:03 PM
circular dependency!?
but yeah, I always feel that when learning something new. First, I feel I don't understand anything. Second, I feel like I'm the king of the world. Third, then I realize that I still don't know many things (currently here).
The second phase is the most dangerous/annoying, like pretending to know Japanese when only knowing kawaii and baka from anime...
 
@GetAnswerWizard but that's why you learn more things
 
 
1 hour later…
4:28 PM
@GetAnswerWizard Nani
 
4:41 PM
Having second thoughts about this donation... the percentage expressed in $? of which -100% will be used for arXiv?
I guess they promise to steal the indicated amount from arXiv.
 
5:06 PM
Try -[amount percentage]?
But... TIL the unit for percentage is $
 
5:23 PM
@GetAnswerWizard You didn't know?
It's also the unit for happiness
 
6:07 PM
Math question: what are the numbers N such that the imgur parameter ?s=N works?
It's not just the powers of 2: s=48 and s=96 resize as well.
But 144 (which is 48 times 3) does not.
 
6:34 PM
SEDE Sunday: Interpersonal Questions by month. We all heard about HNQ, but it's notable that the volume continues to decline for months after the HNQ removal - it did not stabilize on some non-HNQ-powered level.
 
Because people improved their interpersonal skills, of course!
applying the same query on Android.SE doesn't make me feel better though...
 
@GetAnswerWizard Well, Android got less crappy.
 
7:13 PM
Same conclusion could be drawn about Windows Phone, whose graph is similar. But it wouldn't be the correct one.
The best-looking QPM graph is probably Data Science. So much up and to the right.
As long as quality is not shown.
 
7:31 PM
@VoteDukakis iirc, traffic was mostly sustained by Google - with less new material, that would tend to fall over time as well save for a few actually-helpful threads.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:30 PM
Hm. A meta post from 2011 got featured again. Vote early, vote often!
I could solve that problem if not for some annoying limits
 
9:43 PM
@VoteDukakis fixed what smokey was freaking out over
 
10:12 PM
@JourneymanGeek OMG OMG OMG
 

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