Tavern on the Meta

Magisch

16:05

didnt jeff also leave because he famously became burnt out on management activities

Kevin B

bring in the AI management

Eleeza

Just heard the news

Joel is stepping down?!

rene

Yes. You're up for it?

Eleeza

Jeff leaves, Jaydles leaves, balpha leaves, now Joel is getting replaced. What's next?

Lol nope im not even out of high school

rene

@Eleeza for ~~President~~ CEO

Eleeza

16:13

Hahahaaa

rene

Well, you can't start early enough

All your ideas will be out-of-the-box thinking, that's what an CEO does, all managers in fact

Magisch

I nominate rene

rene

In my current role I'm a CTO where I always say that I love the TO stuff and happily forget the C thing, whatever that is.

Magisch

im happy to be just a developer

even though I got stuck with the data protection stuff

rene

@Magisch In fact, I had a three hour discussion with the DPO of a municipality. Learned a lot.

Magisch

16:20

neat

Mithrandir24601

@ShadowWizard Yeah, it can get rather cold here now and again :P

Magisch

whole municipality is above my paygrade, I do that 25% on the side

rene

yeah, it is pretty cool if you can work together on how to improve privacy. And just as part of the design process not as an after thought.

Magisch

its infinitely easier to design around the concept of minimizing data then to crowbar in gdpr compliance features after the fact

rene

Now I know I have to drop certain features

Magisch

16:25

thankfully the chamber of commerce division my company is part of has free lawyer consultation for gdpr purposes

so I've had the chance to actually ask a lawyer about some uncertainties

rene

@Magisch yeah, same here. the DPO was happy to be involved here and now and openly asked why this couldn't be done for all systems they currently have running.

Magisch

It also reduces the chafing that inevitably happens when you have to make a business case for rewriting large parts of your applications to comply with gdpr.

rene

@Magisch bah, we have to pay for that ;)

Magisch

nobody likes being threatened with fines

@rene There's a monthly membership fee, but after that you get free courses for a bunch of stuff and free consultation with the organization's lawyers on stuff. It's pretty cool. So far they helped me write some contracts and with reviewing policy documents

rene

@Magisch Hmm, we have a lawyer we consult but even mentioning his name costs us money...

Magisch

16:31

impostor syndrome hits hard, especially on legal matters. having an extra qualified opinion to back you up is nice.

rene

Yeah, I never decide on these matters without consultation, no matter how much it cost.

Magisch

thankfully my position as DPO is purely advisory :D

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Is this a new record year for employees with high tenure leaving jobs at SE lately?

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir24601 brrrr :D

user302202

@JourneymanGeek It's not really that shiny new, it's been 7 years. Discourse is 7 years old, vs SO being 11 years old.

user302202

16:41

But yeah, I was kidding.

user302202

0

Q: What's up with all the low-quality questions in 2019?

Today I visited the front page and was surprised to see that almost half of the questions were blatantly off-topic, and another chunk casually mentioned the possibility of a tool solving their problems but were otherwise not really posed as a typical Software Recommendation question. Curiosity go...

user302202

That's an impressive bump... I expected AQW redirection to softwarerecs to contribute there, but the bump predates it.

rene

Just agree to share the load ...

Get Answer Wizard

16:57

ugh, "recommending Software Recommendation"

Mithrandir

13 hours, 3 cars (1 dead), 5 trains, 3 busses, and 1 elite cycling team tryout after leaving the house, I'm home :D

user302202

Misread as "3 cats (1 dead)"

Get Answer Wizard

"1 dead" is scarily ambiguous

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir Oh, that sounds nice! How did tryout go?

user302202

@GetAnswerWizard Reminded me of "anti-anti-vax legislations"

user302202

17:02

Which could in principle be iterated.

Get Answer Wizard

or otherwise, 3 car tryouts, 5 train tryouts, 3 bus tryouts, and 1 elite cycling team tryout...

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell Went well. I don't know if I made it or anything, I'll find out in a couple days, but I went because it was fun :D

@GetAnswerWizard Car died on the side of the road, we had to leave it there and catch a bus so that we wouldn't miss the train.

user302202

If the bump on Recs is because of beta-AQW, then is the drop-off because beta version was taken offline prior to launch?

Mithrandir

...it's an odd set of circumstances that lead to me running after my mountain biking coach, who's dressed in military uniform, to catch a bus to the train to the road cycling elite team tryouts.

Get Answer Wizard

On the other hand, the AQW redirection to the site's help center is... probably not that helpful, instead of a particular guideline meta post.

well, might be helpful if those users know which help center should be read for asking an acceptable question...

user302202

17:11

on-topic would be better

user302202

Summary of the Ycomb discussion of the announcement: toxic, downvotes, comments, toxic, reputation, toxic, toxic, duplicates.

Get Answer Wizard

Unrelated, but I always think the "Y" on Ycomb as from "Yahoo!"...

rene

@Mithrandir can we expect pictures or other material?

@AskQuestionWizard yeah, that is what I try to link to if I offer an other SE site

Mithrandir

@rene No :P

I didn't really take any photos

rene

Aaaawww :(

EKons

17:31

waaait... is SE changing hands...

Get Answer Wizard

yeah, a waving hand for "New CEO" indicator

EKons

lol

> Hey, even our CEO is a New Contributor, don't be afraid, come here!

btw, I found this nice gem...

user302202

> Thanks, but therein lies the problem. I went to your developer forum on Stack Overflow and was promptly attacked by a troll, who said I should not be posting there. You can see my question here: stackoverflow.com/questions/55400854/… … -- Michael Spellacy (@[email protected]) at 1:39 PM - 28 Mar 2019

user302202

Oh no, the question Does LinkedIn have any plans to support og:image:alt? is being attacked by a troll as being off-topic... So toxic.

EKons

user302202

17:45

@EKons Exact matches before partial matches

EKons

yeah... outrageous! :P

we all know who the real Wizard is...

Travis J

Will the CEO position be listed at SO Jobs? ;)

user302202

That would be perpetuating bad demographic trends, wouldn't it.

Travis J

In which way?

user302202

> In fact I would like @StackOverflow to ONLY look for and hire a female CEO. -- Mike Poullas at 1:17 PM - 28 Mar 2019

user302202

17:50

Which would be very cool and progressive.

user302202

Illegal, but cool and progressive nonetheless.

user302202

@TravisJ Mostly male audience. See A.W. posts.

Travis J

Not all women are progressive #BetsyDevos

@AskQuestionWizard It wouldn't be the only place that it gets put up though.

Either way, was mostly tongue in cheek suggestion, since SO Jobs don't seem to ever offer C suite positions, or upper management even.

user302202

Yeah, but if advertising a job on SO is already considered a sign of toxic company culture, it cannot be offset by advertising elsewhere.

Travis J

Not sure if I am understanding you correctly, are you saying that looking for a job at SO implies the company that is seeking an employee has a toxic culture?

rene

17:56

I like that reasoning ;)

user302202

Yep, at least according to A.W.

Travis J

A.W.?

Are you trolling me?

Magisch

please not this again

Get Answer Wizard

Actually, I have seen... (scrap this... what I was going to say will never be a topic that can be discussed on here without controversy...)

Travis J

So it was trolling. Sometimes it is hard to detect in chat...

Kind of, in bad taste, I would say, given the reference.

Get Answer Wizard

18:12

... I just realized what "A.W." refers to. Okay, nothing to discuss, move on...

Travis J

Yup

rene

18:33

Dinner is ready, brb

Tinkeringbell

@rene You should respect the Dutch tradition of dinner at 5PM better. Where is this country going!?

EKons

so... I'm not Dutch, but I'm pretty sure that "5PM" refers to the British "tea time"... :P

rene

with me it is going no where

I have been trying to get things done. All I have managed is to make me dinner

Tinkeringbell

@rene That doesn't sound too well. Eet smakelijk!

@EKons tea? What's that?

Shog9

smakelijk

Adjective: smakelijk (comparative smakelijker, superlative smakelijkst)

tasty, delicious

Interjection: smakelijk

(informal) enjoy your meal, bon appétit
Synonyms: eet smakelijk, smakelijk eten...

EKons

18:45

@Tinkeringbell you know... thee

as in theetijd

Tinkeringbell

@Shog9 not to be confused with smakken.

Smakken is onsmakelijk

Shog9

this room is so dutch right now I feel like there should be a plate of cold cuts somewhere

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

It's not summer time in Europe yet?

Magisch

I'm the token german :D

Tinkeringbell

@Shog9 I'm slowly trying to replace all waffles with stroopwafels :)

@SonictheWizardWerehog nope. That's planned for this weekend

Shog9

18:48

are those the ones that are served in huge piles with gobs of sugar in between?

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

I ate my collection of stroopwafels too fast...gotta buy some more

Magisch

Tinkeringbell

@Shog9 huge piles sounds great... But usually you just get one ;)

Magisch

^ stroopwafel

Shog9

that looks like a huge pile to me

Tinkeringbell

18:49

@Shog9 They're sold in huge piles, then shared :)

Shog9

ah!

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Shog9 I buy mine from stroopclub.com, an Austin-based manufacturer of stroopwafels

You should order some and try them

Shog9

sadly, my waffle maker cannot make wafels like that, so I'll have to pass

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

They're pre-made

Shog9

pre-made waffles? Why, when I could have fresh!

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

18:52

because they're fresh out of the pack

Magisch

im not really a big waffel guy

Shog9

little waffels are good too

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Stroopwafels are addicting, literally...I go through a pack of eight in a couple days

(And no, I didn't just try them after hearing about them here...a café near me sells them in small packs of 2, so I tried them there, liked them, looked up the manufacturer, and ordered more direct from them.)

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch That's good. I don't like guys with big waffels.

Magisch

But my tea arrived on tuesday

Tinkeringbell

18:55

That's not all mint tea, right?

Magisch

10 of those packs are mint tea

the front 5 + the small packets are not

there are some more not in the picture too

got 2kg of mint tea in total

EKons

> not in the picture [but in the cactus...]

Catija

@Magisch Those things are delicious!

Magisch

they are :D

Catija

There was actually a local popup here called Stroop Club or something like that that made them and sold them at farmers markets. Haven't seen them for a few months, though but it was awesome to get them freshly made.

@Shog9 The dough is a true dough, not a batter. It looks stiffer than your average pie crust.

Shog9

19:03

yeah, I kinda figured they were more like pizzelles - fried sugar cookies

Catija

Yeah. It's interesting, the dough is much more stiff (my pizzelle dough was always more scoopable) but they are really soft when warm, and they get cut in half with a knife when hot. It's not two wafels, it's one.

EKons

let's hope "fried sugar cookies" isn't a bad way to say "stroopwaffels"...

Catija

"fried" isn't quite how I'd describe the process... but it's fast. Only about 2-3 minutes tops.

When fresh, they were treated like crepes... you could get all sorts of fillings, in addition to the stroop.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Catija They still very much exist. As I said, I've ordered stroopwafels from them, and they sell them at Caffe Medici here

Catija

Selling the premade ones isn't quite the same, though. I haven't seen them at the markets.

Eleeza

19:10

So this chat is tagged "waffles"...im hungry now

Catija

instagram.com/p/BvZUJNIF-j-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

How can you make them even more Dutch? Sprinkles. :P

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

As far as reheating prepackaged ones...just place them on the rim of your drink cup

Tinkeringbell

@Catija +100!

Travis J

Chocolate sprinkles :)

Maybe just on some toast with butter

EKons

ew

Travis J

19:18

lol

EKons

so, if I understand correctly, I have a toast with bread, butter, melted cheese, ham, sprinkles, butter and bread? :P

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Stroopwafel recipe - How to make stroopwafels

►

Kevin B

ew

Tinkeringbell

@KevinB Are you calling stroopwafels ew?!

EKons

dun dun dun...

rene

19:26

kick

Magisch

uh oh you angered the parrot

ducks

EKons

no... he angered the flower... WHOAAAAA escapes heavy flying object

Tinkeringbell

@rene People say I'm not allowed to :(

Mithrandir

→ 27 messages moved to Chimney

@Magisch No, parrots, not ducks!

6

rene

@Tinkeringbell kick them as well?

Tinkeringbell

19:28

Just one parrot, actually

Get Answer Wizard

calling @InfiniteRecursion...

rene

I'm helping, okay?

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Mithrandir Why parrot the parrot?

Tinkeringbell

@rene Too tempting...

EKons

alright... I think I'm going to leave you Dutch people alone for a bit to calm down, this must've been quite a shock...

Tinkeringbell

19:29

@EKons calm down? What's that?

EKons

gain control of beak and claws :P

Tinkeringbell

I'm always in full control of beak and claws! I have those to use them, you know....

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

And don't forget the wings

Tinkeringbell

Starts preening

EKons

.oO( when I say "control", I mean "control", not "uncontrollable urges to attack"... meh, she'll understand in a bit... )

Tinkeringbell

19:33

But I am in control! I'm not attacking anyone right now!!

You just don't call stroopwafels 'ew' when I'm in the room!!!

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

I feel attacked by your lack of attacking

Ew

Kevin B

what

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

WTH is a stripwaffle?

EKons

suggestion... timeout before things get really nasty...

Tinkeringbell

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard wrong word!!!

Dirty minds doing overtime right now.

Kevin B

19:34

it was more of a reaction to "We’re especially focused on identifying candidates from under-represented groups, and making sure that every candidate we consider is deeply committed to making our company and community more welcoming, diverse, and inclusive."

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

Oh great, new soul-scratching drama

Tinkeringbell

@KevinB Ohhh. Yeah, that's ew. But why drop that after a conversation on stroopwafels and confuse everyone? ;)

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard Meh, it's okay. It's actually (from what I've seen, just anecdata) a pretty common American way of going about job postings... Focusing more on what a person is than what they can do.

So we just add a large dose of cultural relativism and suddenly it's not a problem anymore :)

Mithrandir

From what I understand, it's more about making sure that people who may be qualified for the job and who might not otherwise have known about it / felt encouraged to apply know about it and that they're welcome to apply; making sure it reaches the most diverse candidates. That way, you have a much larger pool of people to choose from.

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

@ShadowWizard Do caffeine-based life forms breathe oxygen, or Nescafe steam?

Mithrandir

It doesn't mean "we're only hiring people who aren't straight white Christian cis males"; it means that they're getting it out there to the maximum number of people.

EKons

19:42

the wording is a bit off...

Catija

The applicable concept is the "Rooney Rule".

Rooney Rule

The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is sometimes cited as an example of affirmative action, as there is no quota or preference given to minorities in the hiring of candidates. It was established in 2003, and variations of the rule are now in place in other industries. == History and origin == The rule is named after Dan Rooney, the former owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers and former chairman of the league's diversity committee. It was created as a reaction...

Kevin B

What do you do differently to accomplish that goal though?

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir Like I said, just add a large dose of cultural relativism, accept that's just the way people roll, and it's not a problem anymore ;) also, I'm not going to apply so it's not something I'm going to spend a lot of energy on to begin with :P

Kevin B

Is it just fluff?

nothing is done differently?

Magisch

if more people apply because they feel emboldened to do so by the description, then the tactic worked

EKons

19:46

I think it's more like there's a possibility that there are stereotypes floating around, especially in the tech world (e.g. "programming is for men") and some may feel bound by them when they're not

Magisch

regardless if they change anything in the selection process

Catija

@KevinB Well, you actively seek out qualified candidates who are in minority groups. Often times, the people who self-select to apply for a position aren't necessarily those people, so you go to the effort to recruit candidates that are diverse. Once you have a good pool, you interview and select your candidate as usual, choosing the best fit for the position.

Travis J

It doesn't end at just a tactic for application though. The outlook required, aside from the person themselves, is part of the job description.

Kevin B

ew

Magisch

It's a very valid point though. Companies want a wide diversity of perspectives in their leadership team to reduce blindspots and get better products for more people

Kevin B

19:48

you're basically putting your thumb on the scales to force a particular ratio irrespective of the population out there interested in such a role.

Magisch

Studies have been done on that. Diverse leadership teams produce better results, by the sheer quality of necessarily representing more viewpoints and thus considering them

Mithrandir

@Magisch case in point:

We let kids design our city -- here's what happened | Mara Mintzer | TEDxMileHigh

►

Magisch

from a cold hard business perspective its in their best interest to maintain a wide array of perspectives in their leadership team

Catija

@KevinB It's showing that you're doing due diligence in finding the best candidate for the job and that your company accepts that great candidates may not always feel they can apply for positions without some nudging.

Travis J

^

EKons

19:50

diversity pro: better coverage for more cultures which may be a bit unfamiliar with what you already do cover

Mithrandir

Watching that video should give a pretty good parallel for diverse hiring, I think.

In other news, *sigh* the army is showing their ineptness again

I rescheduled my appointment with them that was originally going to be today, because I still need to see a few doctors beforehand... but apparently that branch of the recruitment office didn't get that memo and called me twice, and my father twice, and my mother twice...

all of us managed to somehow miss the calls, though

all about an appointment that was rescheduled to not be today

Travis J

It can be hard for under represented groups to feel emboldened in a wide variety of endeavors because often the lack roll models in those spaces, such as being the CEO of a decently sized tech company. It just makes sense to encourage those people who may feel discouraged.

Kevin B

Yes, encourage them. but to create a pool of candidates before interviewing of a forced ratio?

Magisch

don't think they do forced ratios

I think they just do extra outreach in underrepresented groups

EKons

can't see any implication of any ratio over there...

Magisch

19:57

targeted advertising, basically

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

20:21

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard I see you've joined the circle of wizards

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

20:51

@SonictheWizardWerehog Huh, why did that get downvotes? Last I checked, it was standing at 4 or something

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

21:08

@angus long time no see, Australian burger \o

Is MadSci from Australia? It's too late at night for a headache of a meta post for Europeans probably

But some fresh bloodshed in the morning couldn't hurt

angussidney

21:24

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard o/

Great to see you too

I just dropped in after seeing the big blog post, and I was surprised how little discussion their is about it

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

The Downvote Predicament

►

(directly applies to Reddit, but semi-applicable to SE as well, especially Meta)

user302202

@angussidney What's their to discuss? We are not going to be voting for the new CEO.

user302202

*there

user302202

its contagious

Kevin B

it's just more of the same

user302202

21:33

Let's discuss something more cheerful.

user302202

1

Holiday Lighting

Proposed Q&A site for holiday lighting enthusiasts.

Currently in definition.

Kevin B

not much new to discuss

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

@AskQuestionWizard Its hic It's not the only thing thats hic that's contagious

DOGS ARE EFFECTIVE APOSTROPHE DISEASE VECTORS, NEW STUDY FINDS

angussidney

@AskQuestionWizard that's very true - but us meta folks always like to dig into things :)

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

@AskQuestionWizard I always dreamt of a setup that would explode when the year turns or something

user302202

21:36

You may be thinking of Holiday Lightning

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

The only thing more fun than little light bulbs exploding is when there is no associated hospital costs

0

Q: Is drinking a half-bottle of wine a night ‘as bad as three cigarettes’

A recent study on the cancer risks of drinking alcohol has been widely reported in news headlines. The Times headline is: Half-bottle of wine a night ‘as bad as three cigarettes’ The BBC summarise slightly differently: Drinking one 750ml bottle of wine a week increases the risk of devel...

cancer alcohol smoking epidemiology

user302202

TIL it's too easy to print 273 copies of page 5 when you meant to print 5 copies of page 273.

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

But how bad is three cigarettes?

user302202

When they moved production from New Zealand to the UK and switched from the runny white centers to the thick, frosting-like filling, it got way harder to cook them scrambled.

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

@AskQuestionWizard You just earned 268 draft papers

@AskQuestionWizard How many cadbury sodas are sugar eggs worth?

user302202

21:42

user302202

Was this thing in bold always there?

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

0

Q: How to apply to be CEO of Stack Overflow?

Having just seen the blog post about Joel stepping down as CEO, I am (of course) immediately wondering how to apply. In his haste to publish the news, he seems to have left of that vital bit of information. I was fully expecting there to be a link to an ad in jobs. Since I am, of course, eminen...

discussion careers blog

@angus hey, you wanted discussion

user302202

Message: If you don't know how to apply, you're not qualified.

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

@AskQuestionWizard Up up down down left right left right AB get out?

user302202

> Ladies, you know what to do: The Next CEO of Stack Overflow stackoverflow.blog/2019/03/28/the-next-ceo-of-stack-overflow/… … -- Sara Ownbey Chipps at 10:07 AM - 28 Mar 2019

Mithrandir24601

21:53

@Mithrandir Niiice!

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Does an active bounty prevent questions from being Roomba'd?

> The automatic deletion script doesn't vote to delete; it just deletes.

Kevin B

indirectly

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@KevinB Please elaborate

Kevin B

it attracts upvotes and answers

whether or not it directly prevents a post from being roomba'd, no idea

i'd assume it does

user302202

I'd assume it does not, because the logic of automatic deletion is described by Shog on Roomba help page.

user302202

22:07

If it had a condition "... and has no current bounty", he would include it.

Kevin B

assuming he didn't just neglect to add it

user302202

A pretty safe assumption.

user302202

> I was drafting a reply and just can't be bothered. I'm glad he's leaving. Maybe if they truly pick someone out of the box the site will move forward. What's the bet it's another white male. And even better, someone who's never programmed. -- Yvette at 5:57 PM - 28 Mar 2019

Kevin B

"white male"

lost my respect

Journeyman Geek

23:03

@AskQuestionWizard 'someone who has never programmed' OI

Kevin B

advocating for discrimination while complaining about discrimination

Journeyman Geek

Not everyone is a dev :/

@KevinB or more that it's not a zero sum game.

Kevin B

Should have just stopped at the 3rd sentence

Journeyman Geek

To me it's essential that it's someone who gets and cares about SE's future

Braiam

23:44

Where is that tony the pony post about backticks and random words?

Journeyman Geek

The what?

Braiam

A post with many random words using code formatting.

Shog9

You should totally drop that and try parsing HTML with a regex

Transcript for