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02:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

4:05 PM
didnt jeff also leave because he famously became burnt out on management activities
bring in the AI management
Just heard the news
Joel is stepping down?!
Yes. You're up for it?
Jeff leaves, Jaydles leaves, balpha leaves, now Joel is getting replaced. What's next?
Lol nope im not even out of high school
@Eleeza for President CEO
4:13 PM
Well, you can't start early enough
All your ideas will be out-of-the-box thinking, that's what an CEO does, all managers in fact
I nominate rene
In my current role I'm a CTO where I always say that I love the TO stuff and happily forget the C thing, whatever that is.
im happy to be just a developer
even though I got stuck with the data protection stuff
@Magisch In fact, I had a three hour discussion with the DPO of a municipality. Learned a lot.
4:20 PM
@ShadowWizard Yeah, it can get rather cold here now and again :P
whole municipality is above my paygrade, I do that 25% on the side
yeah, it is pretty cool if you can work together on how to improve privacy. And just as part of the design process not as an after thought.
its infinitely easier to design around the concept of minimizing data then to crowbar in gdpr compliance features after the fact
Now I know I have to drop certain features
4:25 PM
thankfully the chamber of commerce division my company is part of has free lawyer consultation for gdpr purposes
so I've had the chance to actually ask a lawyer about some uncertainties
@Magisch yeah, same here. the DPO was happy to be involved here and now and openly asked why this couldn't be done for all systems they currently have running.
It also reduces the chafing that inevitably happens when you have to make a business case for rewriting large parts of your applications to comply with gdpr.
@Magisch bah, we have to pay for that ;)
nobody likes being threatened with fines
@rene There's a monthly membership fee, but after that you get free courses for a bunch of stuff and free consultation with the organization's lawyers on stuff. It's pretty cool. So far they helped me write some contracts and with reviewing policy documents
@Magisch Hmm, we have a lawyer we consult but even mentioning his name costs us money...
4:31 PM
impostor syndrome hits hard, especially on legal matters. having an extra qualified opinion to back you up is nice.
Yeah, I never decide on these matters without consultation, no matter how much it cost.
thankfully my position as DPO is purely advisory :D
Is this a new record year for employees with high tenure leaving jobs at SE lately?
@Mithrandir24601 brrrr :D
@JourneymanGeek It's not really that shiny new, it's been 7 years. Discourse is 7 years old, vs SO being 11 years old.
But yeah, I was kidding.
Q: What's up with all the low-quality questions in 2019?

GlorfindelToday I visited the front page and was surprised to see that almost half of the questions were blatantly off-topic, and another chunk casually mentioned the possibility of a tool solving their problems but were otherwise not really posed as a typical Software Recommendation question. Curiosity go...

That's an impressive bump... I expected AQW redirection to softwarerecs to contribute there, but the bump predates it.
4:56 PM
Just agree to share the load ...
ugh, "recommending Software Recommendation"
13 hours, 3 cars (1 dead), 5 trains, 3 busses, and 1 elite cycling team tryout after leaving the house, I'm home :D
Misread as "3 cats (1 dead)"
"1 dead" is scarily ambiguous
@Mithrandir Oh, that sounds nice! How did tryout go?
5:02 PM
@GetAnswerWizard Reminded me of "anti-anti-vax legislations"
Which could in principle be iterated.
or otherwise, 3 car tryouts, 5 train tryouts, 3 bus tryouts, and 1 elite cycling team tryout...
@Tinkeringbell Went well. I don't know if I made it or anything, I'll find out in a couple days, but I went because it was fun :D
@GetAnswerWizard Car died on the side of the road, we had to leave it there and catch a bus so that we wouldn't miss the train.
If the bump on Recs is because of beta-AQW, then is the drop-off because beta version was taken offline prior to launch?
...it's an odd set of circumstances that lead to me running after my mountain biking coach, who's dressed in military uniform, to catch a bus to the train to the road cycling elite team tryouts.
On the other hand, the AQW redirection to the site's help center is... probably not that helpful, instead of a particular guideline meta post.
well, might be helpful if those users know which help center should be read for asking an acceptable question...
5:11 PM
on-topic would be better
Summary of the Ycomb discussion of the announcement: toxic, downvotes, comments, toxic, reputation, toxic, toxic, duplicates.
Unrelated, but I always think the "Y" on Ycomb as from "Yahoo!"...
@Mithrandir can we expect pictures or other material?
@AskQuestionWizard yeah, that is what I try to link to if I offer an other SE site
@rene No :P
I didn't really take any photos
Aaaawww :(
5:31 PM
waaait... is SE changing hands...
yeah, a waving hand for "New CEO" indicator
> Hey, even our CEO is a New Contributor, don't be afraid, come here!
btw, I found this nice gem...
> Thanks, but therein lies the problem. I went to your developer forum on Stack Overflow and was promptly attacked by a troll, who said I should not be posting there. You can see my question here: stackoverflow.com/questions/55400854/… … -- Michael Spellacy (@spellacy@a11y.info) at 1:39 PM - 28 Mar 2019
Oh no, the question Does LinkedIn have any plans to support og:image:alt? is being attacked by a troll as being off-topic... So toxic.
@EKons Exact matches before partial matches
5:46 PM
yeah... outrageous! :P
we all know who the real Wizard is...
Will the CEO position be listed at SO Jobs? ;)
That would be perpetuating bad demographic trends, wouldn't it.
In which way?
> In fact I would like @StackOverflow to ONLY look for and hire a female CEO. -- Mike Poullas at 1:17 PM - 28 Mar 2019
Which would be very cool and progressive.
Illegal, but cool and progressive nonetheless.
@TravisJ Mostly male audience. See A.W. posts.
Not all women are progressive #BetsyDevos
@AskQuestionWizard It wouldn't be the only place that it gets put up though.
Either way, was mostly tongue in cheek suggestion, since SO Jobs don't seem to ever offer C suite positions, or upper management even.
5:54 PM
Yeah, but if advertising a job on SO is already considered a sign of toxic company culture, it cannot be offset by advertising elsewhere.
Not sure if I am understanding you correctly, are you saying that looking for a job at SO implies the company that is seeking an employee has a toxic culture?
I like that reasoning ;)
Yep, at least according to A.W.
Are you trolling me?
please not this again
6:08 PM
Actually, I have seen... (scrap this... what I was going to say will never be a topic that can be discussed on here without controversy...)
So it was trolling. Sometimes it is hard to detect in chat...
Kind of, in bad taste, I would say, given the reference.
... I just realized what "A.W." refers to. Okay, nothing to discuss, move on...
6:33 PM
Dinner is ready, brb
@rene You should respect the Dutch tradition of dinner at 5PM better. Where is this country going!?
so... I'm not Dutch, but I'm pretty sure that "5PM" refers to the British "tea time"... :P
with me it is going no where
I have been trying to get things done. All I have managed is to make me dinner
@rene That doesn't sound too well. Eet smakelijk!
@EKons tea? What's that?
Adjective: smakelijk (comparative smakelijker, superlative smakelijkst)
  1. tasty, delicious
Interjection: smakelijk
  1. (informal) enjoy your meal, bon appétit
  2. Synonyms: eet smakelijk, smakelijk eten...
6:45 PM
@Tinkeringbell you know... thee
as in theetijd
@Shog9 not to be confused with smakken.
Smakken is onsmakelijk
this room is so dutch right now I feel like there should be a plate of cold cuts somewhere
It's not summer time in Europe yet?
I'm the token german :D
@Shog9 I'm slowly trying to replace all waffles with stroopwafels :)
@SonictheWizardWerehog nope. That's planned for this weekend
6:48 PM
are those the ones that are served in huge piles with gobs of sugar in between?
I ate my collection of stroopwafels too fast...gotta buy some more
@Shog9 huge piles sounds great... But usually you just get one ;)
^ stroopwafel
that looks like a huge pile to me
6:49 PM
@Shog9 They're sold in huge piles, then shared :)
@Shog9 I buy mine from stroopclub.com, an Austin-based manufacturer of stroopwafels
You should order some and try them
sadly, my waffle maker cannot make wafels like that, so I'll have to pass
They're pre-made
pre-made waffles? Why, when I could have fresh!
6:52 PM
because they're fresh out of the pack
im not really a big waffel guy
little waffels are good too
Stroopwafels are addicting, literally...I go through a pack of eight in a couple days
(And no, I didn't just try them after hearing about them here...a café near me sells them in small packs of 2, so I tried them there, liked them, looked up the manufacturer, and ordered more direct from them.)
@Magisch That's good. I don't like guys with big waffels.
But my tea arrived on tuesday
6:55 PM
That's not all mint tea, right?
10 of those packs are mint tea
the front 5 + the small packets are not
there are some more not in the picture too
got 2kg of mint tea in total
> not in the picture [but in the cactus...]
@Magisch Those things are delicious!
they are :D
There was actually a local popup here called Stroop Club or something like that that made them and sold them at farmers markets. Haven't seen them for a few months, though but it was awesome to get them freshly made.
@Shog9 The dough is a true dough, not a batter. It looks stiffer than your average pie crust.
7:03 PM
yeah, I kinda figured they were more like pizzelles - fried sugar cookies
Yeah. It's interesting, the dough is much more stiff (my pizzelle dough was always more scoopable) but they are really soft when warm, and they get cut in half with a knife when hot. It's not two wafels, it's one.
let's hope "fried sugar cookies" isn't a bad way to say "stroopwaffels"...
"fried" isn't quite how I'd describe the process... but it's fast. Only about 2-3 minutes tops.
When fresh, they were treated like crepes... you could get all sorts of fillings, in addition to the stroop.
@Catija They still very much exist. As I said, I've ordered stroopwafels from them, and they sell them at Caffe Medici here
Selling the premade ones isn't quite the same, though. I haven't seen them at the markets.
7:10 PM
So this chat is tagged "waffles"...im hungry now
How can you make them even more Dutch? Sprinkles. :P
As far as reheating prepackaged ones...just place them on the rim of your drink cup
@Catija +100!
Chocolate sprinkles :)
Maybe just on some toast with butter
7:18 PM
so, if I understand correctly, I have a toast with bread, butter, melted cheese, ham, sprinkles, butter and bread? :P
@KevinB Are you calling stroopwafels ew?!
dun dun dun...
7:26 PM
uh oh you angered the parrot
no... he angered the flower... WHOAAAAA escapes heavy flying object
@rene People say I'm not allowed to :(
27 messages moved to Chimney
@Magisch No, parrots, not ducks!
@Tinkeringbell kick them as well?
7:28 PM
Just one parrot, actually
I'm helping, okay?
@Mithrandir Why parrot the parrot?
@rene Too tempting...
alright... I think I'm going to leave you Dutch people alone for a bit to calm down, this must've been quite a shock...
7:29 PM
@EKons calm down? What's that?
gain control of beak and claws :P
I'm always in full control of beak and claws! I have those to use them, you know....
And don't forget the wings
Starts preening
.oO( when I say "control", I mean "control", not "uncontrollable urges to attack"... meh, she'll understand in a bit... )
7:33 PM
But I am in control! I'm not attacking anyone right now!!
You just don't call stroopwafels 'ew' when I'm in the room!!!
I feel attacked by your lack of attacking
WTH is a stripwaffle?
suggestion... timeout before things get really nasty...
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard wrong word!!!
Dirty minds doing overtime right now.
7:34 PM
it was more of a reaction to "We’re especially focused on identifying candidates from under-represented groups, and making sure that every candidate we consider is deeply committed to making our company and community more welcoming, diverse, and inclusive."
Oh great, new soul-scratching drama
@KevinB Ohhh. Yeah, that's ew. But why drop that after a conversation on stroopwafels and confuse everyone? ;)
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard Meh, it's okay. It's actually (from what I've seen, just anecdata) a pretty common American way of going about job postings... Focusing more on what a person is than what they can do.
So we just add a large dose of cultural relativism and suddenly it's not a problem anymore :)
From what I understand, it's more about making sure that people who may be qualified for the job and who might not otherwise have known about it / felt encouraged to apply know about it and that they're welcome to apply; making sure it reaches the most diverse candidates. That way, you have a much larger pool of people to choose from.
@ShadowWizard Do caffeine-based life forms breathe oxygen, or Nescafe steam?
It doesn't mean "we're only hiring people who aren't straight white Christian cis males"; it means that they're getting it out there to the maximum number of people.
7:42 PM
the wording is a bit off...
The applicable concept is the "Rooney Rule".
The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is sometimes cited as an example of affirmative action, as there is no quota or preference given to minorities in the hiring of candidates. It was established in 2003, and variations of the rule are now in place in other industries. == History and origin == The rule is named after Dan Rooney, the former owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers and former chairman of the league's diversity committee. It was created as a reaction...
What do you do differently to accomplish that goal though?
@Mithrandir Like I said, just add a large dose of cultural relativism, accept that's just the way people roll, and it's not a problem anymore ;) also, I'm not going to apply so it's not something I'm going to spend a lot of energy on to begin with :P
Is it just fluff?
nothing is done differently?
if more people apply because they feel emboldened to do so by the description, then the tactic worked
7:46 PM
I think it's more like there's a possibility that there are stereotypes floating around, especially in the tech world (e.g. "programming is for men") and some may feel bound by them when they're not
regardless if they change anything in the selection process
@KevinB Well, you actively seek out qualified candidates who are in minority groups. Often times, the people who self-select to apply for a position aren't necessarily those people, so you go to the effort to recruit candidates that are diverse. Once you have a good pool, you interview and select your candidate as usual, choosing the best fit for the position.
It doesn't end at just a tactic for application though. The outlook required, aside from the person themselves, is part of the job description.
It's a very valid point though. Companies want a wide diversity of perspectives in their leadership team to reduce blindspots and get better products for more people
7:48 PM
you're basically putting your thumb on the scales to force a particular ratio irrespective of the population out there interested in such a role.
Studies have been done on that. Diverse leadership teams produce better results, by the sheer quality of necessarily representing more viewpoints and thus considering them
from a cold hard business perspective its in their best interest to maintain a wide array of perspectives in their leadership team
@KevinB It's showing that you're doing due diligence in finding the best candidate for the job and that your company accepts that great candidates may not always feel they can apply for positions without some nudging.
7:50 PM
diversity pro: better coverage for more cultures which may be a bit unfamiliar with what you already do cover
Watching that video should give a pretty good parallel for diverse hiring, I think.
In other news, *sigh* the army is showing their ineptness again
I rescheduled my appointment with them that was originally going to be today, because I still need to see a few doctors beforehand... but apparently that branch of the recruitment office didn't get that memo and called me twice, and my father twice, and my mother twice...
all of us managed to somehow miss the calls, though
all about an appointment that was rescheduled to not be today
It can be hard for under represented groups to feel emboldened in a wide variety of endeavors because often the lack roll models in those spaces, such as being the CEO of a decently sized tech company. It just makes sense to encourage those people who may feel discouraged.
Yes, encourage them. but to create a pool of candidates before interviewing of a forced ratio?
don't think they do forced ratios
I think they just do extra outreach in underrepresented groups
can't see any implication of any ratio over there...
7:57 PM
targeted advertising, basically
8:21 PM
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard I see you've joined the circle of wizards
8:51 PM
@SonictheWizardWerehog Huh, why did that get downvotes? Last I checked, it was standing at 4 or something
9:08 PM
@angus long time no see, Australian burger \o
Is MadSci from Australia? It's too late at night for a headache of a meta post for Europeans probably
But some fresh bloodshed in the morning couldn't hurt
9:24 PM
@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard o/
Great to see you too
I just dropped in after seeing the big blog post, and I was surprised how little discussion their is about it
(directly applies to Reddit, but semi-applicable to SE as well, especially Meta)
@angussidney What's their to discuss? We are not going to be voting for the new CEO.
its contagious
it's just more of the same
Let's discuss something more cheerful.
Holiday Lighting

Proposed Q&A site for holiday lighting enthusiasts.

Currently in definition.

not much new to discuss
9:33 PM
@AskQuestionWizard Its hic It's not the only thing thats hic that's contagious
@AskQuestionWizard that's very true - but us meta folks always like to dig into things :)
@AskQuestionWizard I always dreamt of a setup that would explode when the year turns or something
You may be thinking of Holiday Lightning
The only thing more fun than little light bulbs exploding is when there is no associated hospital costs
Q: Is drinking a half-bottle of wine a night ‘as bad as three cigarettes’

matt_blackA recent study on the cancer risks of drinking alcohol has been widely reported in news headlines. The Times headline is: Half-bottle of wine a night ‘as bad as three cigarettes’ The BBC summarise slightly differently: Drinking one 750ml bottle of wine a week increases the risk of devel...

TIL it's too easy to print 273 copies of page 5 when you meant to print 5 copies of page 273.
9:37 PM
But how bad is three cigarettes?
@AskQuestionWizard You just earned 268 draft papers
@AskQuestionWizard How many cadbury sodas are sugar eggs worth?
Was this thing in bold always there?
Q: How to apply to be CEO of Stack Overflow?

Tom WrightHaving just seen the blog post about Joel stepping down as CEO, I am (of course) immediately wondering how to apply. In his haste to publish the news, he seems to have left of that vital bit of information. I was fully expecting there to be a link to an ad in jobs. Since I am, of course, eminen...

@angus hey, you wanted discussion
Message: If you don't know how to apply, you're not qualified.
9:46 PM
@AskQuestionWizard Up up down down left right left right AB get out?
@Mithrandir Niiice!
Does an active bounty prevent questions from being Roomba'd?
> The automatic deletion script doesn't vote to delete; it just deletes.
10:03 PM
@KevinB Please elaborate
it attracts upvotes and answers
whether or not it directly prevents a post from being roomba'd, no idea
i'd assume it does
I'd assume it does not, because the logic of automatic deletion is described by Shog on Roomba help page.
If it had a condition "... and has no current bounty", he would include it.
assuming he didn't just neglect to add it
A pretty safe assumption.
> I was drafting a reply and just can't be bothered. I'm glad he's leaving. Maybe if they truly pick someone out of the box the site will move forward. What's the bet it's another white male. And even better, someone who's never programmed. -- Yvette at 5:57 PM - 28 Mar 2019
10:15 PM
"white male"
lost my respect
11:03 PM
@AskQuestionWizard 'someone who has never programmed' OI
advocating for discrimination while complaining about discrimination
Not everyone is a dev :/
@KevinB or more that it's not a zero sum game.
Should have just stopped at the 3rd sentence
To me it's essential that it's someone who gets and cares about SE's future
11:44 PM
Where is that tony the pony post about backticks and random words?
The what?
A post with many random words using code formatting.
You should totally drop that and try parsing HTML with a regex
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