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12:11 AM
@ShadowWizard do keep up ;p
1:04 AM
So uh... are two word answers ever acceptable on SE?
I mean, if someone is going to put invisible mathjax in their post to pad it out in order to trick the system into accepting it, isn't that a violation of site policy?
@forest Typically no
@JourneymanGeek In my particular case, I flagged it but no action was taken. It's quite frustrating to see an answer that, in any other context, would be very quickly deleted as VLQ (unfortunately HNQ happens and bad answers get upvotes. Being from 2015 doesn't help either).
@forest ehhh. There's tonnes of ways to do it but the lack of quality would be the primary issue
@JourneymanGeek So what about something like that?
I created a site-specific meta post to see what mods have to say.
But I'm very surprised that it would ever be considered acceptable and am wondering in what contexts it possibly would be. It's just so useless.
It's ... Technically correct...
1:12 AM
Well an answer can't get deleted due to being wrong anyway.
But ya, that's a rare situation where I can see why it would be in dispute
What factors make it ambiguous?
If I were to answer a question in two words and padded my answer out so the system didn't reject it as spam, I'm sure it would get deleted in minutes.
Well that it's an answer that is 'correct' and 'stands on its own' with Bo external sources.
Reminds me: on MSU there were a number of answers locked with the "historical significance" reason, except their notice was confusingly the one for questions instead. I reported it as a bug, and a dev responded by manually removing those notices.
I can think of a dozen questions that I could have given a one or two word answer which would stand on its own and not need external sources.
1:16 AM
If it was one of my answers and it HNQed I would likely consider it an embarrassment and pad it out with more information
Then I guess I'll see what moderators on the site have to say.
It may very well end up that I'll be able to answer a lot more questions. :^)
A: How sensitive to change are elliptic curve formulae In layman's terms?

forestExtremely sensitive. In fact, there are only three other positive values that would not violate various security guarantees, and the example you provided was not among them. And even of those three, only the one chosen protects from all edge cases. Now, in a little more detail... Curve25519 is a...

Like this could have just been replaced with one word: "Very".
But then it wouldn't be helpful.
But would it have been allowed?
1:38 AM
"very" does not answer "how". "It's impossible" does.
"How sensitive? Very sensitive"
Maybe if you write it in haiku form.
A: 2019 Stack Overflow Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

Petter FribergWrite a Haiku poem that catches the essence of why you think it will be fun to handle 400 flags every day.

@forest or people start thinking you are trolling
1:48 AM
Sure but it'd showcase hypocrisy.
Not that I'd plan to do it though. I don't think I have a single -1 answer on the site.
The answers that challenge the premise of a question have been a topic on various metas.
Oh wait, no I do have a single -1.
Oh and I can't even delete it because it was accepted. :(
"You don't" challenges the premise.
"Very" does not even do that.
I think it only challenges the premise in a very superficial way.
And only because of the way the question was worded.
After all, OP said the answer was not at all helpful.
But the premise of the question itself was never contradicted.
oh well
1:54 AM
SESE election has 1 candidate already, a well known one: softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/election
> I have several years experience in the crucible of moderation, Stack Overflow.
Noun: crucible (plural crucibles)
  1. (chemistry) A cup-shaped piece of laboratory equipment used to contain chemical compounds when heating them to very high temperatures.
  2. A heat-resistant container in which metals are melted, usually at temperatures above 500°C, commonly made of graphite with clay as a binder.
  3. The bottom and hottest part of a blast furnace; the hearth.
  4. (figuratively) A very difficult and trying experience, that acts as a refining or hardening process.
2:09 AM
(How is that offensive? It answers the question.)
An answer can be offensive.
Hate those compression artifacts
A: How to decrypt a Ubuntu 16.10 encrypted home folder?

Dean Iversen Greenwhy do peeps always call their porn "important files"? FFS drop the Vaseline and pay attention for once!

2:13 AM
That's NAA if I ever saw one.
2:46 AM
Ugh, morning
17 hours left to vote in The The WorkPlace Election. workplace.stackexchange.com/election
5:49 AM
@JourneymanGeek Out of curiosity, is it still possible for mods to lock answers with the "historical significance" reason? (If so, the resulting notice will refer to "question".)
5 hours ago, by Sonic the Wizard Werehog
Reminds me: on MSU there were a number of answers locked with the "historical significance" reason, except their notice was confusingly the one for questions instead. I reported it as a bug, and a dev responded by manually removing those notices.
6:23 AM
Don't think so. Never used it anyway
6:38 AM
@JourneymanGeek If you try to lock an answer, does it show up as a choice for the notice?
6:55 AM
I'm in India. I have a flight.
I'm on my phone.
If you need to ask how something works... Maybe meta?
Even site meta might work here
7:07 AM
Does the author of an answer retain rep if the answer is mod deleted if the post has been up 60+ days and has 3+ rep? Someone mentioned that in a comment on a site meta, but I'd like to double check.
@forest yes
ah ok
Has to be posted more then 60 days ago and has to be score >=+3 at the time of deletion
@forest sounds right
7:18 AM
Unrelated, but more and more I'm feeling like WorldBuilding.SE is of similar quality to the old Yahoo! Answers philosophy section.
Especially when it comes to machine learning or AI.
Well, I'm certainly late to this by many months, but hey look, more examples of SE staff not caring one single bit about its user base or their opinions!
@forest Yes. MSE FAQ, and blog.
@Magisch Not quite; it has to be visible for 60 days. Time it previously spent deleted is subtracted from the post age for the check.
e.g. if a post was deleted 5 days later, then undeleted 25 days after it was posted, it must be deleted later than the 80th day after posting for rep to be retained.
7:34 AM
@forest Well, they actually did care.
Oh that's nice
technical papers meta.stackexchange.com/questions/324491/… @Bart @rene @Glorfindel
Ugh, I wish there was a button to simultaneously downvote all answers to a Q. :/
Sometimes answers are just so bad it makes my brain hurt.
@SonictheWizardWerehog sharp eyes and good memory then.... :)
7:38 AM
Yeah but sometimes it's necessary.
@forest no.
It's not.
If you've got a terrible question with 5 terrible answers...
It's racist, in a way.
Discriminating answers based on the question.
7:39 AM
I didn't know answers were a race.
Oh no, the answers are also terrible.
Bad question can have good answers.
I don't downvote answers if they're good but the question sucks. :P
@ShadowWizard Do note the second presence of the word "terrible"
@forest sounds like you are, if you want such a button, which means you won't even read all answers.
Maybe you will, but surely many won't bother.
I wasn't being entirely serious. :P
7:40 AM
So such thing is a mistake.
I just hate seeing people on WB have no idea how machine learning works.
@forest Out of curiosity, did you find that through the avatar and user profile link?
I mean I get it when it's a question about fantasy, since then you have creative license, but when it's nothing but a glorified What-If machine in Stack Exchange format answered by people with almost no knowledge of anything but pop-sci...
@SonictheWizardWerehog Yup
@JourneymanGeek hard to follow... and to be honest didn't expect Norm to return this time. :)
In all honesty, I wasn't expecting that to get as much traction as it did
Feb 12 '18 at 3:41, by Ano
Wow, I didn't expect this to get quite a bit of interest
7:45 AM
Now waiting for @Telkitty to come back. :D
hmm... Joe updated his site profile but not chat profile.
> Stack Overflow product manager on TeamDAG
@Mooseman yes! I'll donate $10. No kidding. ;)
@Mooseman wow, nice. About time you'll settle down. Next step: find a nice lady, build a house... :D
Yeah, three kids for me, growing fine. :)
Please nominate yourself on Tezos Software Engineering
And also, the only candidate on Freelancing won by-default
And of course, the main banquet for SEEN: Stack Overflow is currently collecting mod questionnaires
8:03 AM
TWP election also ends today at 20.00
@Magisch Nervous?
@Tinkeringbell I'm unsure about my chances
I'll admit it i'm pretty nervous. I won't be too miffed if I lose, but the anticipation is killing me
I'm guessing at least two of the others have a bit higher visibility on site (more active, and a better score)... So yeah, I'm not sure about your chances either :/
@Magisch Didn't mean to boost your confidence like that XD
8:19 AM
@Tinkeringbell ?
8:33 AM
The US elected Trump so hey, stranger things could happen.
@Magisch Just realized my message could be read as 'you have no chance'... didn't mean that :)
ambiguity at best :/
@Tinkeringbell I'll see in 11 hours
Okie Dokie Lokie
Okie Dokie Lokie Pokie uwu
8:46 AM
@forest totally works for it's users
@Magisch Me too ;)
@scohe001 both the mail contained link to the tracking page on the DHL portal. As I said, the two links seems to reference different packages, both apparently to be sent to my address. As today, both packages are reported as not yet sent.
Same here still too. And unlike the German people I can't see any predicted arrival time :/
If it's any comfort at all the predicted arrival time was yesterday 10AM and it still shows as "not picked up by DHL" from the USA
No, that's not comforting at all! :P
8:55 AM
@MSOGA reminds me of the class name I once used in an old research project. We had to build an adapter layer that would abstract access to a third party library. Said library was an obsolete messy tangle of nonsense.
In the end, the class was called "Aludel"
it contained methods such as "sublimateEntity"
@JourneymanGeek Yeah but so does Yahoo! Answers.
(Also apologies for being a grammar nazi in advance but... s/it's/its/)
9:19 AM
@forest I blame autocorrect
sublimate as in evaporation without liquid phase?
> (in psychoanalytic theory) divert or modify (an instinctual impulse) into a culturally higher or socially more acceptable activity.
So I'm guessing something was done with something to make it better? :P
Or the Entity was socially more acceptable :P
9:45 AM
@Magisch sublimate as in "remove impurity" since the "dto" entities returned by the original api were a mess too.
10:02 AM
!!/watch bachelorsingermany\.com
@SonictheWizardWerehog That pattern looks like it's already caught by Potentially bad keyword in body and Potentially bad keyword in answer; append -force if you really want to do that.
to be fair, wasn't the worst thing we did.
I think there must still be a cursed class hidden deep in some forgotten corner of source control that has a comment reading Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!"
3 hours later…
12:54 PM
and back I am.
Hello @Bart.
1:20 PM
@Derpy Hmmm. I guess I'm a mod now, so I can't dislike Bart anymore... but not saying hi is kinda dislikeable :P
@Tinkeringbell ping Shog and see if he replies :P
@Derpy You don't wake up Shog just to say hi ;)
Hello @Derpy :)
@Tinkeringbell I had my glasses stuck in a VR display, so I wasn't paying attention to the monitor.
@Bart Did you manage to free them unscathed?
They have been battle scarred for a while now :D
1:34 PM
@Book your diamond is scary! :P
@Bart Poor glasses :(
@Tinkeringbell who? The hostages?
The risks of working in VR
I sat more than once on my glasses....
not while on your face I hope
1:35 PM
One time during army, which resulted in me not having glasses for two weeks.
And assigned watch duties.
yeah, luckily I didn't have to use the weapon. ;)
@Bart Do you have special 'work' glasses?
@Bart this could be very interesting. :P
No, I should really get some. Now I try to remember to take off my glasses when putting on the headset @Tinkeringbell
1:36 PM
Sitting on own face... must break some world records. :D
@Bart Sounds like a good recipe for piercing headaches to me.
@ShadowWizard still better than falling on a porcupinefish skeleton.
@Tinkeringbell I have plenty of migraines, but never from VR to be honest
@Bart maybe work on the design first to allow people wearing glasses to put the headset without breaking their glasses then? :)
@ShadowWizard you go tell the manufacturers that. We're mere users :)
1:38 PM
I doubt many will buy such a glasses breaking product. :/
@Bart I can't really go without glasses for long, my eyes might be a bit worse than yours ;)
Mine is still okay close up @Tinkeringbell. Distance is f*cked
@Tinkeringbell contact lenses? I use them for long years.
I think I wore the playstation VR thing once with glasses, that did work quite well.
@ShadowWizard If they called them Gleads instead of Glasses you'd know to put them on your head, and not the other end. :)
1:39 PM
@ShadowWizard I'm sorry, what?
@ShadowWizard Had them from 18 - 23. I'm not allowed to wear those every day anymore, something with veins growing and possibly damaging my eyesight.
@Rob how about ggals?
@Bart Same here... still. Headaches ;)
@Derpy this cute thing?
or glads
1:40 PM
For oggling?
@Rob live coal?
@ShadowWizard these are actually sold in some countries.
@Tinkeringbell colleague here can't have them on for more than a few minutes without getting motion sick. It's weird how it affects people in different ways.
@JohnDvorak hehe, well... glasses breaking product that should be used for other purpose... :D
1:42 PM
I can't have VR glasses on for more than a few minutes without the security guy telling me to stop hogging their demo products
@Tinkeringbell ouch. I wear them 4-5 days per week, letting my eyes "rest" for few days each time.
I guess you can oggle at live coal, if you can find living coal
@ShadowWizard now, suppose someone forgot the skeleton on a chair.... I once heard this actually happened to a friend of mine.
@Bart Interesting... Next time, the job application will warn against applying if you get motion sick easily? :P
@Derpy ouch. Hope the skeleton is OK. ;)
@Bart like on a boat?
1:43 PM
Haha, depends on the work. But she's an artist so doesn't have to try it a lot @Tinkeringbell.
@ShadowWizard yup
@ShadowWizard even if it was, I think they would have thrown it out of the window soon after.
I were on boats at sea few times, no sickness. :D
In our actual experiences you don't have the problem, but when you do quick tests at your desktop, and you move around in VR without actually moving around physically, plenty of people experience motion sickness.
@Derpy why? Looks like it cost a lot. lol
@ShadowWizard doubt that.
was just going to post that same link :P
The Q&A are priceless.... LOL
@Tinkeringbell I find that it's the quality of the production that causes illness. I can watch good quality VR for hours and simply become tired of watching, desiring to do something else. With bad quality VR (poor stitching and distortion) I start to feel sick within five minutes and feel ill for more than an hour afterwards. You have to be careful for signs of feeling different and take the glasses off early if there's a problem.
@Rob I know how to recognize motion sickness ;) I'm quite used to getting it sadly.
@ShadowWizard you know... give me a second...
1:48 PM
I've only did VR once or twice, I didn't have any problems with it, but it was only really short stuff.
@Tinkeringbell maybe buy Nespresso some good VR so that he'll leave you alone and won't make too much mess? You know, keep him occupied.... ;)
It's not so much something I'd describe as motion sickness, that's trivial to recognize. It's a cross between a headache, migraine, and an unsettling feeling.
@Rob Ahh, the 3d movie with bad fitting glasses effect ;)
He'll discover AR/XR and wander around the office bugging people even more.
That's a fair description.
@ShadowWizard found
1:53 PM
@Rob at my previous job we took tons of care to avoid such issues, but some games/content really don't. Which reflects poorly on VR as a whole. In my current work it's less of an issue, but yeah, you still need to do a lot of VR specific stuff to get content that acceptable to all.
It's like a pounding headache, that doesn't pound and isn't a headache - a really weird feeling.
@Derpy LOL
@Rob brain trying to adjust to things that shouldn't be where they are reported to be?
@Bart The worst part is initially you don't notice, then you start to notice something but you don't realize what it is - then you're in trouble and you get a "brain short-circuit effect".
@Rob in user tests we've also seen people enjoy everything just fine, and then feel strange only when taking off the headset.
@ShadowWizard Yes, it doesn't necessarily look "bad" but there's something wrong and it hits you like a brick. -- Yes, but if you don't take the headset off sooner you get more sick for longer.
1:59 PM
@Rob I get piercing migraines from any sort of VR
When I bought my S9+ I bought the Goggles too, increasing the price to truly outrageous, but they really look wonderful and are extremely comfortable, lightweight.
10 minutes on any VR headset is like an hour in the middle of a concert for me
you can pretty much write me off for the rest of the day
@ShadowWizard you can find the rest here
@Rob yeah S9 was quite nice (and we didn't have to worry about overheating or battery issues on those :D )
2:07 PM
@Derpy heh. I had something like that during army, used to make light. Kind of never-ending flashlight. Not much light, but it doesn't require any battery.
!!/coffee mee
@ShadowWizard brews a cup of Mocha for @mee
I forgot what I wanted to do...
It's the "[razor and blades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_and_blades_model)" business model.

They sell the Uranium for cheap, but get you with the [Geiger Counter](https://www.amazon.com/GCA-07W-Professional-Radiation-Detection-External/dp/B000796XSC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims) and replacement batteries.
@Bookends bring us all coffee
@ShadowWizard post that on Lifehacks.
2:14 PM
!!/coffee @@161198
@Bookends brews a cup of Ristretto for @161198
Darn editor on mobile, no way to fix that.
markdown is stripped on multiline message...
@Bart It's lightweight and not overbalanced (tipping forward) with a sufficiently high resolution, it's also a thousand bucks.
@Rob yup, in that sense if you want a VR intro. the Oculus Go makes a lot more sense.
2:18 PM
Yes that's a great deal, but the library is much smaller.
I started my VR experience on YouTube with a cardboard
Unfortunately, my internet is not fast enough to stream HD...
Yup, they did well to support most of the Gear VR library (and we were part of the launch content), but I don't know if it developed much over time.
Samsung has its own library and APPs, plus a subset of the Oculus APPs (though I heard they were opening it up so everything just worked).
@Bookends welcome to the club.
At least you (probably) never had to use 300 baud.
2:22 PM
I could switch to what all IPS in out country call "Optic Fiber connection" (actually VDSL2)
but it comes with a nice bag of added FUN
2:38 PM
The reviews of SO on trustpilot are quite bimodal: trustpilot.com/review/stackoverflow.com
★★☆☆☆ would not buy again
the screenshot...
to be fair...
> you answer a question correctly, another person answers it slightly wrong, after 1 minute seeing yours works he edits his answer doing a copy paste from yours, and then even downvotes your answer and another one below.
happens A LOT
probably just autosuggestion or positive reinforcement of trust issues... but...
That's what happens when you eat off the ground instead of low-hanging
but if it happens a lot (that is, getting similar answers in short period), then probably the problem is on the question?
2:46 PM
I made a comment in The Tavern about those types of reviews but it was Nazi'd to the trash - people do like to cut their own throats around here, sometimes, other times it's wonderful. You just need a thick skin and not too thick a skull.
so, woodpeckers are right out?
Yes. A parrot bill could serve you well. Funny thing is that the trashed comment was a reply to her.
And it wasn't she whom trashed it.
Did I miss something?
Someone mentioned parrots?
You could look I'm the trashcan. Nothing really missed, the moment is over.
@Derpy sounds like be Australia
2:51 PM
Back soon.
@Derpy at least your ISPs aren't inserting ads into the https pages by requiring you to install their root certs
@Magisch I just want to be able to have a VDSL2 connection that does NOT force me into VOIP only.
And with the modem/router that I CHOSE
Without remote force updates managed by ISP
And basic security features (like mac filtering) disabled by them.
but for reasons, asking that seems like asking them for a roasted gummy badger, salted with rainbow colors and served with summer days.
Setup software on your computer and pay for VPN to somewhere.
@Rob how would that make my connection faster?
no ISP throttling
3:06 PM
It wouldn't be faster, that you'd have to pay your ISP for (unless you force compress everything, and they refused compression) but it would disable the MAC mangling and updates to your cable box (we all get them) can't affect your encrypted VPN. They can only throttle blindly, rather than picking and choosing using DPI.
Worst case, your ISP really hates VPNs
@Derpy will be flagged as "causing harm". :P
3:21 PM
@ShadowWizard Well, obviously. Remember, proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/…
My isp is .. ok
As long as you don't need to rely on their support
3:36 PM
Sounds like mine, too
let me reformulate that:
- wouldn't solve the VOIP only problem - all my phones would still have to connect to the modem box, meaning that a) no connection == no phone b) no electricity == no phone
- mac filtering, still a problem: since the modem has to stay near the phones, I will have to use the loathed WIFI. Can't properly set the wifi security since they handicap the modem, can't even enable MAC based access control
- the modem will still be the one they provide, meaning I have to live with a colander firmware, rarely updated that was already obsolete when they made it in 2014(2015? ca
3:52 PM
@ShadowWizard I'll probably order from Newegg just saying haha
@ShadowWizard That's my exact plan! Three kids sounds like a nice number.
I approved the suggested edit on this post and then recognized a spelling mistake in "combianation". Should I override-reject the edit by editing the post or can anyone of you please Improve/Approve the edit?
^ I am against override-rejecting it because that would deprive the editor of the 2 rep for an otherwise valid edit.
@Derpy shipping number three just came in.
@Tinkeringbell ? you got ANOTHER MAIL???
@Tinkeringbell could start their own swag contest...
... I got one too...
4:07 PM
@Derpy Yeeeep
And we're not the only ones. It was someone else telling me there was a third mail ;)
@JNat Apparently I won a watch for each day in my advent calendar. Just got the third mail, you need to send 22 more now ^_^'
wheee, three watches
we should ask for different colors.
Which witch watched which watch?
Well, now that it's three, I'm going with 'something is messed up on the sending side, but we're not getting extras'
4:12 PM
@Tinkeringbell three different waybill codes though.
To save on shipping, send all the swag to one user.
That's what we actually did with Charcoal stickers
Let them redistribute.
@Derpy Yeah, crazy stuff. wouldn't surprise me if a new one pops up this time tomorrow with yet another waybill number
and I can foresee JNat telling them to check because "users x, y and z are being sent multiple watches, please fix" and them reading it as "resend watches to users x, y and z"
4:14 PM
@MSOGA Won't work, unless people agree to share their address with that person... Which complicates stuff a lot, who can you trust?
...last time it was Catija...
Wait, charcoal needs to send more stickers?
@Tinkeringbell will hold all the watches as hostages until they send me the Stack Unicorn plush.
@Derpy Such a plush is likely to get lost in the mail :P
I still have some.
4:17 PM
@Catija plushes ? ^_^
Nah... joking about Tink being a distribution center because of the number of watch emails
Ah. OK.
I remember watching this way back when... I understood maybe 5% of the words used.
Oooh! I just got an email. I sent a reaction to an apartment that was for sale, and at least I didn't get a hard 'no, already sold' but a 'please call our office'! I might actually buy an apartment soon!!
@MSOGA I remember the advertisements for those!
4:27 PM
@Tinkeringbell I kinda expected "Oooh! I just got an email. Another watch"
This is a waaaaay better email
@Tinkeringbell you just received a mail from DHL telling you they have no more watches so they are sending a 4DE Fluttershy plush instead?
@Mooseman good! Keep us updated with your progress. ;)
4:42 PM
@Tinkeringbell I have updated the question title. Will update again if this happens.
can LaTeX be used in titles on Meta.SE?
I should probably just have a series instead.
Or I could use an Excel like formula.
Meta doesn't have MathJax enabled.
If it had, then it would be possible to use LaTeX notation in titles like anywhere else.
Unicode to the rescue? I keep Mathematical operators and symbols in Unicode bookmarked.
6:41 PM
Clicking the "buy me a coffee" image in Soner's profile opens.... that image itself. No coffee for you!
@MSOGA that's how it goes when you forget mirroring URLs :')
Looks like the total profit was 2 coffees in 2018.
7:09 PM
linked just above the image
8:42 PM
Got my 7th Yearling on SO... I feel old now.
9:18 PM
.... Got a shipment notification for my watch... It's yet another waybill number ...
This was actually picked up though
9:54 PM
4 messages moved to Chimney
114 messages moved to Chimney
@JourneymanGeek Oooh, same :)
10:26 PM
@fbueckert: We're close to announcing the results of our Ask a Question Wizard. The results are not dissimilar from the results of the question template experiment. People who get the more structured guidance are less likely to ask. We strongly suspect that it's because they didn't know how much effort was required. It's a very encouraging result. — Jon Ericson ♦ 2 hours ago

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