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4:02 AM
Well, looks like a years-old localization bug in the mobile site was also fixed. I sort of figured they'd come to these things once the responsive design effort comes to an end.
 
afternoon
 
 
1 hour later…
5:26 AM
Happy 7:27 am!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:40 AM
Shog's active
 
Where
 
@andmyself He recently told me being out at the Ozarks
 
6:59 AM
@ShadowWizard Just deleted a couple blatantly off-topic questions.
 
12 messages moved to Chimney | Daily Housekeeping
 
thanks
Reservist is finally over.
Though I guess if I can do stuff off a phone...
 
I have a userscript that makes this into a 2 click process
 
@Magisch as do I. Its on my desktop ;p
 
I'm starting to lose interest in SE :(
 
7:06 AM
amusingly I spent 10 of the first 12 days of a MSE mod in a place with no computer access and occationally no phone access
@andmyself :/
 
7:36 AM
Morning!
 
morning
I'm in filehandling hell
 
7:56 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): "Something is off" by Agen Dewa on ell.SE
 
That's a nice way to start a morning/
Stuff can only get better then
 
@Tinkeringbell Heh
 
8:25 AM
Morning!
I suppose I'll regain my interest when I get my laptop back @_@
 
Where'd your laptop go?
 
Dog ate it? glaring at @Journeyman
:P
 
I don't eat laptops, only homework.
 
But homework on a laptop?
 
we just close it if you don't save it.
 
8:30 AM
@andmyself how is your interest in SE related to some specific laptop?? lol
 
Its the same, right?
 
@ShadowWizard Being on SE on mobile is boring ;)
Keeping up with chat is hard, and moderating near impossible ;)
 
ohh I see
 
@ShadowWizard quite true
 
8:32 AM
Well that is too bad, as the future is no doubt in mobile devices.
Everyone seems to understand it.. except SE.
 
Meh. Mobile devices are cool, but they'll never replace a laptop or PC for most things, IMO
 
Programming, perhaps. But browsing sites?
It's basic. Or should be.
 
I still prefer my PC and screen
And I don't want to haul around that big of a mobile device
 
Well, SE is lucky to heavily rely on programmers, who usually do have a computer for their programming. Otherwise not supporting mobile devices would have marked the end as more and more (non programmer) people appear to ditch computers in favor of mobile devices.
 
Mine's pretty common...
@ShadowWizard well, I also think its a matter of what they think's going to be "cool"
The mobile apps were developed when everyone had to have a mobile app...
 
8:37 AM
tru dat... but still.
 
(and the last ditch was the SO app - which was a bit of a failure, and they were focused on ... well... SO)
responsive pages are kinda meant to be one size fits all - but the key thing here is moving everything over to a common, themed framework they can reuse, and change at once (with fixups)
 
SO app is a slap in the face of SE app users. Instead of fixing its bugs and improving it, they just made whole new app. I didn't even try the SO app.
 
@ShadowWizard well, this is the point where they were laser focused on SO and related things
 
So they should just close all other sites, if SO is the only thing on their plate.
 
@ShadowWizard was
 
8:42 AM
The SO app was recently taken down as well.
 
And that's kinda what got us into the mess IMO
 
Anyway.... what's done is done. The future is now in responsive design and being more Welcoming.
 
@ShadowWizard well, kinda sorta.
 
Why? What else?
 
I think there's a bit of work ahead in rebuilding some of the moving parts as far as community goes.
 
8:43 AM
Oh, and I predict closing Area 51 at some point, maybe without alternative.
 
Its a bit creaky and dosen't work very well
@ShadowWizard interesting question though. When do we reach a point when we don't need A51 any more?
 
When we have a "miscellaneous" site?
 
or figure out an alternate route to propose new sites I suppose.
 
@JourneymanGeek maybe when 99 out of 100 proposed sites fail to launch?
 
@ShadowWizard plausibly
 
8:45 AM
@JourneymanGeek hard to think they'll find the resources for that, but who knows.
 
but there's another important blocker there
@ShadowWizard well, resources are a little thin anyway
 
Also, new sites will be launched by cooperation with big companies.
 
This might just work and benefit both sides.
 
Well, as a way to "fast track" sites - I like the idea
as an only mechanism... ehhhh
and quite honestly, it feels like A51 is to folks like me, what SU is to say SO regulars...
 
8:47 AM
Maybe people will be able to suggest sites via contact form, and SE staff itself will decide what's worthy and what isn't.
 
its a bit of a curiocity of occational interest ;p
@ShadowWizard which comes down to "how do we gauge interest" and "will it scale"
 
"will it blend"
 
@rene I think actually "will it scale" kinda sums up a lot of SE's current strengths and weaknesses ;p
 
yep
 
8:49 AM
yip
Long time no see @Trav! :D
 
:D
I been busy
 
and that some things haven't quite scaled the way anyone expected it to
 
And perhaps slightly intoxicated at times (mostly busy)
 
@TravisJ huh? How come? :(
 
busy getting intoxicated ...
 
8:51 AM
lol
 
Being really busy usually means that I have to get all my drinking done for the week in one sitting ;P
 
I don'th mind
One thing that didn't scale so well was the low quality content mass, for lack of a better word. When there were less posts it wasn't so much of an issue, 10 of 500 isn't so bad. Once you reach 1000 of 50000 it gets a little interesting, and at 200000 of 10000000 it can be a little overwhelming. Somewhere in there is critical mass.
 
@TravisJ TBH, that's a little more of an issue at SO ... and its heavily a people problem
but how do you get people to post better questions?
and that "I need X rep cause it makes me more employable"
 
You talk about SE or your drinks quality? @Trav ;)
 
8:55 AM
@ShadowWizard hah! Maybe both :P
 
@TravisJ and that's an easier thing on a small site
 
@JourneymanGeek This is the million dollar question.
 
building and maintaining a sense of community and influencing your core.
@TravisJ SE is trying a technical solution...
How would you scale a non technical solution (education) to... IDK...
thousands of people over dozens of cultures?
 
Attracting experts would be far more effective than attracting just anyone and trying to educate them.
 
8:57 AM
@TravisJ there's only so many experts though
and experts often may not have interesting questions.
and often useful stuff comes from unexpected sources.
 
I disagree with the no interesting questions supposition.
Sure, pearls, drinks, sand... I agree with that.
 
@TravisJ hence the often, not...
 
We do have an issue getting experts though, aside from SO.
 
superuser.com/a/745403/10165 <- this user had 201 rep. Had an answer to a particularly niche problem I had...
 
Often implies more than half though. I would say rarely may not have interesting questions.
 
8:59 AM
He isn't one of our conventional subject matter experts.
 
I think answers are different than questions though, for a large range of reasons. Mostly that they are two different words.
 
He had (most of) the answer to something I was stuck with for a few days.
@TravisJ the user had 26 rep ;p
 
@TravisJ Yeah but who is an expert at what? When are you an expert? You can't really make a site just for people with academic degrees...
 
I mean, sure that would have been an interesting question if I asked it
and I'm hardly an expert
mostly a petty dabbler.
 
a bobby dazzler?
 
9:01 AM
wrong reference actually
 
@Tinkeringbell "Classically trained" is an easy way of claiming expertise, but experience will get you there as well.
 
@TravisJ I am about as far as classically trained in anything at all as you get ;p
 
@TravisJ Still you can't filter for those kinds of people... :/ It's the internet, everyone is an expert on everything nowadays
 
and question quality is as much about asking questions well as the difficulty level.
 
Everyone may claim to be an expert, but there are certainly a lot of people who lie on the internet.
@JourneymanGeek That's true.
 
9:04 AM
so we don't just need people asking hard questions.
But also good questions that can be answered.
 
Experts don't have some claim to only asking good questions, they are just generally better at it. They understand the process, peer review, rigor, etc. You learn these things during the course of becoming an expert; it is essentially the defining characteristic.
 
@TravisJ they kinda have the first step and troubleshooting started
 
Yeah
 
Now, I have little sympathy for "code dump" or "How do I do $complicated_thing plz explain step by step"
 
@ShadowWizard what Tinkeringbell and Mr. Geek said about mobile :(
 
9:06 AM
I really don't mind that much to be honest. I would rather see it done right somewhere and be a duplicate target.
 
@andmyself I've totally modded off a phone
 
So long as code dump and complicated_thing are actually described contextually.
 
@TravisJ then it starts being a better start.
I've had situations where I started clueless and built on it
 
Often code dump is terrible, its true, and those are a little annoying to read... but they only never end up with >100 views so what problem do they really create?
 
@TravisJ well they're the sort of question that presumably turn off experts?
 
9:08 AM
Mm, I don't think so. I think that is a falsehood actually.
Experts are used to being asked all sorts of dumb questions. So a question in and of itself is highly unlikely to drive off experts.
 
(though I had a fun one of those...)
 
The response to questions is what drives them off in my opinion.
 
@TravisJ but that's also where education comes in
 
As an expert, if you see pearl, and try to start prying the thing open to reveal it... all the while everyone else missed the fact and crushed the post calling it trash. That is what drives off experts.
 
@TravisJ which also needs education - and in fact... isn't what what the welcome wagon is supposedly about?
 
9:10 AM
Well, the welcoming approach has been used for many years. I guess people just forgot about it since it kind of got expanded.
The close reason changes exchange-wide were originally the start of the welcoming approach.
 
@TravisJ and people forgot what's the broader goal of SE ;p
Its not just a place to get quick answers, or get rep.
 
It's a place to figure out WTF DenverCoder2009 knew.
:)
 
I think I have had this discussion before though, WRT content
Sorry, discussions can be kind of...lengthy though. This was started by Jon Ericson in 2015, my answer is there, along with a lot of other good points.
92
Q: Thought experiment: What would happen if we didn't have close votes?

Jon EricsonAfter reading "My Love-Hate Relationship with Stack Overflow: Arthur S., Arthur T., and the Soup Nazi" one of our developers wondered what would happen if we didn't have close votes. Disclaimer: I don't know of any actual plans to actually get rid of close votes. Like legalizing marijuana, a chan...

 
well, I like close votes
 
9:18 AM
> Shog:
> Is this still a collaborative effort, a great leap of faith predicated on trusting your fellow programmers? Is Stack Overflow you? Or are you just canon fodder, a digital sharecropper to be milked for all you're worth and then cast aside.

> And for those of us here on meta, building this system... Who are we building it for? Do we still remember?
There are a lot of gems in there
 
but spending time to fix posts... where plausible is just a good thing.
 
9:45 AM
Such a derailing link... thing is, there have been like tens of thousands of those discussions.
 
@TravisJ and we will probably keep having them for years to come.
 
Yeah, probably. I mean, ideally, we all just somehow come to some massive "a ha" moment and solve the singularity releasing all the unicorns.
 
In Munich? Probably at the train station.
 
And things like coffee shops, most likely.
 
9:51 AM
Definitely a spam post though. It links to a realtor service.
@Tinkeringbell - Yup, probably there too although it may require a latte :D Life can be so harsh sometimes.... Being forced to drink coffee.
 
I think over here, if you went to the bakery, bought breakfast and asked 'hey, I need to call mom but my phone is empty, do you have a place to plug it in while I eat my croissant'... They do it ;)
 
@TravisJ oh Munich lost last night to Tel Aviv! (Euroleague, basketball ;))
My wife was in the game. :D
 
Oh man, spoiler! I had it saved on my DVR and everything
 
Really??? Oops
 
They also sell those rechargeable battery packs on the trains here, and if you buy one, you can charge your phone and always switch it for a charged one after.. (it only works on intercities with railcatering though)
 
9:54 AM
No no, just kidding :D
Your wife played? That's cool! Did she score?
 
Lol
She was in the hall
 
So, maybe an assist? :D
 
She is big fan of Maccabi Tel Aviv for long years... Evem though they have rough times in recent years. :(
 
Running a sports team can be tough. Some teams just never manage to break out.
Kind of like the USA soccer team.
 
Thing is, they did. Big time. So the fall was big and painful.
 
10:07 AM
Ah, rough. USA soccer has never been big time.
At least the hall was probably a really good place to watch the game from :)
 
I can watch Major League Soccer on EuroSport here ...
 
MLS.... is, well, it's alright. Mostly just because they managed to poach some of the European talent. Every player essentially tries to either immediately clear the ball as far as possible hoping for a potential breakthrough, or they try to take it themselves which generally results in failing and just dribbling the ball into the corner and putting up a prayer of a cross.
I got to see Beckham play with Landon at LA once though. That was fun. So, it is certainly some sort of positive.
 
what details do you need?
 
@Tinkeringbell I've seen such a concept at malls, airports, stations, etc., but onboard a train? Never seen that.
@TravisJ I have a friend from high school who plays U.S. soccer professionally.
 
@sau226 is that on the 2.3 version of the API?
Oh, you need @ArtOfCode for that ...
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Nice, I know a few people playing as well. I played in college but several of my bones disagreed with staying together at one time and so we broke up.
Phew, I think I just solved a really annoying problem
I have been trying to make a glowing 3D ellipse-shaped orb LED light source
With an SVG
 
Okay, so you either stopped trying to make a glowing 3D ellipse-shaped orb LED light source or you stopped trying to use the SVG?
 
10:33 AM
Neither :D
 
Time for a self-answered Q&A somewhere then ;)
 
lol
I have done that before. It is nice to work for hours on something that gets 64 views in a year.
 
Hey, at least you get to work on stuff :P
 
Heh, yeah, can't seem to stop
I haven't had more than a week off in like.... forever. 2011? Somewhere in there.
 
Our fileupload folder structure: [Server]/[Network Share]/[Main Folder]/[Customer Name]/[Order Name]/[Order-Step Name]/[Workstep-Name]/[Sample-Name]/[Freetext Category Name]/[Main Category Name]/File
just end me now
 
10:39 AM
@Magisch Something something delete recursively :P
 
(CASCADE)
 
@sau226 I am now yes
 
@Magisch So... uh, can't you just use a single virtual folder spread across your server farm for that?
 
@Magisch I used to work VFX... amature ;p
@sau226 ah. I don't actually know much about teams
and erm...
I'm not an employee ._.
(which I think you might have mistaken me for)
 
@TravisJ the people working with it are infintiely resistant to change
 
10:44 AM
Infinite resistivity? Hm. Must not have enough superconductive material. I believe air is infinitely resistive, for the most part... maybe that is what is powering their decision making :P
 
@sau226 only team I'm in is the mods team - and we don't have admin rights
and I don't use very much automation on the site(s) I mod on
I think someone like @ArtOfCode might be a better bet
 
@Magisch awesome, and then have those fields in the database, and to find the document you have to concat all those fields to reproduce the fullpath. Do allow / in all names ... good luck!
 
@rene / in file names has so far happened ~9.800x out of ~687.000 uploaded files under the legacy system
@sau226 Is your issue that you can actually use these functions by bypassing the UI?
 
Probably can't remove notices.
 
10:50 AM
Extra fun: when saving the files, /\ was replaced with another inconsistent character
 
Stack isn't big on permanent deletion.
(just conjecture)
 
@Magisch oh boy. I have something similar that also involves spaces (sometimes trimmed, sometimes not) and special characters and where the name in the db has illegal characters for path/file name. All fun.
 
Well, be careful about sending your fkey and an id to random endpoints :P
I should bed.
 
11:06 AM
6 to 8 weeks. Apparently not just a SE thing
 
Hahaha
 
11:21 AM
I read an article this morning where dentists were arguing you eat all your Sinterklaas candy in one go, and dietists were like 'oh no!'. Now I still don't know what to do
 
Did you really think this was your idea? That's bold.
 
11:37 AM
@Tinkeringbell option 3: no candy
resist unnecessary sugar :p
 
@Magisch NO SUCH THING!
actually, I'd just like a non diet option
 
@JohnDvorak italics
 
BOLD ITALICS
 
At least not bald...
 
sᴍᴀʟʟᴄᴀᴘs ʙᴏʟᴅ ɪᴛᴀʟɪᴄs
 
11:40 AM
 
hmm
🤣 🤣
 
@JourneymanGeek ehh, candy is largely unnecessary
 
@Magisch in certain societies that's grounds for expatriation.
 
@JourneymanGeek Another reason It's good that I won't have kids
They would get no candy and no sweets at all
 
@Magisch also, in an emergency, its something I have no trouble finding a varient I can eat.
I had a teacher who kept putting me in detention, and I'd end school hours later, with a horribad case of hungry.
 
11:48 AM
mhm
 
so I basically downed a bottle of coke and a pack of M&Ms to tide me till I got home
(since you don't need to cook candy, and it gives you a quick energy rush. ._.)
(also I get the idea @Tinkeringbell likes her chocolate ;p)
 
@JourneymanGeek lucky for you not mentos!
;-)
 
@ShadowWizard no ;p
 
Think I even wrote a question about it on some SE site... Lol
 
@JourneymanGeek Just a little bit
 
12:10 PM
So teachers didn't like you? @Journeyman :(
 
12:32 PM
@ShadowWizard this one didn't
erm....
Lets just say, if you have nothing good to say about someone, say nothing at all, and I got nothing?
 
12:52 PM
More auth code removals - these feel awesome after so much prep work to yank OpenID out. It's really a huge effort, but we're getting there. Small numbers, but they're oh so beautiful:
goodbye pork pie hat openid
 
in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 3 hours ago, by Jenna Sloan
Oh, it looks like they changed the log in system
 
I didn't realise everything logs in through MSE tho
 
workplace.stackexchange.com/a/123586 this just gets my blood boiling a lil
> So on average you're coding or learning about development about 60 hours a week. For Uncle Bob, this is a prerequisite to being a good programmer. In fact he goes even further and suggests you should learn a new language each year you're a developer.
 
Yeah. Nice. I'm coding 40 an hour, and learning during those 40 as well. They don't have to be two different things.
 
@Tinkeringbell That's what the comment discussion below is about. In essence AOP thinks that these dont count because everyone does these, you need more
 
12:59 PM
@Magisch Well... Depends on your knack for programming, I guess.
 
@Magisch I guess there's also that other thing - quite often people do more interesting things in their spare time than work ._.
but your job can't be your life. if you want to write tools you need for fun, its fine
 
If they're not that good of a programmer, might well be that they need a bit more time to get the hang of stuff. Then you can't combine it with your regular job as easy cause employers want to see results, and if you have 20 colleagues doing the same work you do in half the time you're in trouble...
 
If you want to spend your time building your cat a box fort the size of a small town...
 
I crochet in my free time, and I've made it really clear that the only times I'll be studying outside of work hours is when work hours = classes and tests I need to pass.
So far, I don't feel much worse of a developer for it ;)
 
I just hate the elitist exclusionary attitude that is in that
It's an offshoot of "If you're not a coder with every fiber of your being, don't bother"
 
1:01 PM
@Magisch and yet everyone needs to code.
 
@Magisch There's certain things you indeed shouldn't bother about then. One of em is hanging out with those types of people ;)
 
I'm just having a bit of a rant because that got highly upvoted in TWP
 
ya
 
I have a been toying with a question for TWP for a while (it's not something I can post on IPS)... I'll wait till they're out of HNQ too ;)
 
1:06 PM
@JourneymanGeek another pet peeve of mine
we're not going around teaching everyone to sing are we?
both are specific skill sets that a chunk of people will have no interest in or ability for
 
@Magisch personally I think everyone needs an opportunity if its their interest
but I don't get coding at all.
 
@JourneymanGeek this
 
I mean, I'd hack at a interesting systems project for weeks
like my router.
PC building makes me happy and I wish I could do it more often than every 3/4 decade ;p
but programming? ehh.
 
I'm volunteering with codeclub.org.uk. It's the best way I can think of to give everyone an opportunity but not force it on anyone
 
@JourneymanGeek sure. I had every opportunity to pick up technical drawing, but I have no interest in it and would absolutely never be good in it. That's fine, i'm good at other things
 
 
2 hours later…
3:04 PM
Boring Friday, this is.
 
I can go and start some fires on MSE, if you like? :P
 
@Tinkeringbell Why's that?
 
@ArtOfCode Meh.
More like 'boring work day' then perhaps?
 
Is one allowed to yell "fire" in a crowded chat room?
 
Sure.
Go ahead.
But don't get mad if someone throws a bucket of water over you ;)
 
3:24 PM
FIRE!
 
add some ice and I'll donate to charity :P
 
:D I almost forgot that was a thing :P
 
3:57 PM
@Alex This trope hasn't been true for ages... otherwise even movies that contain an exclamation of "FIRE!" would be banned
 
@Mgetz Fair enough.
 
4:55 PM
@ArtOfCode Flag instantly, rapidly and effortlessly
 
 
1 hour later…
6:01 PM
 
6:14 PM
I did what no one before thought was possible. I rid MSE of all questions!
 
6:35 PM
Vague news!
 
 
1 hour later…
7:48 PM
10 messages moved to Chimney
 
8:08 PM
weekend :D
 
I thought we didn't really live that many timezones apart. Did you work overtime?
 
No i had weekend 5.5 hours ago I just got back to the tavern
 
Ah :) Well, welcome back and enjoy your weekend! Hopefully it'll go better than mine ;)
 
Why, is your weekend not good?
 
It's probably not going to be.
My brother has a new apartment and my parents are insisting we all go over there tomorrow to sand and paint. :/
 
8:10 PM
:(
 
Even though my brother said 'I have money to let someone do this' and I said 'I have money to let someone do my part'..
So right now I'm trying to get a hold of a friend, seeing if she wants to go to the movies tomorrow ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell Good plan
 
You could argue that you need to migrate to the south
 
@Magisch problem is the apartment is on the way then ;)
 
You're a bird, you can just fly over it ^^
 
8:16 PM
Wish it were that easy offline :) even when I jump I don't get very high
 
lighthearted banter based on characters
 
Yeah, Sometimes I wish it was true ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell boring is better than "makes me want to scream". Or not? ;-)
@AnneDaunted there is still ongoing quest to delete the though. :)
@JourneymanGeek hmm... You can invite that teacher to see what you achieved so far, to have her (him?) eat their hat in shame... :D
 
Someone seems busy catching up with the transcript :P
 
8:57 PM
@ShadowWizard I don't want to edit them all at once, else I'd become the most hated user on MSE (maybe I already am? :p). ;-)
 
9:18 PM
i mean... it's so inactive that it likely wouldn't be much different if you edited 30 or 10
still fills up the front page either way
 
9:58 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title (98): Body Building Breakfast by Jamie on sports.SE
 
10:21 PM
What do you meta users and mods think about my recent FR Daily votes cap for trusted users is just nonsense and doesn't improve anything? It's somehow specific for the Stack Overflow to some extend, but seems to be of general interest. There's a lot of arguments discussed in comments, but no answer to consolidate these yet.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ +100 ;-)
 
i'm out of votes atm
gotta wait an hour and a half
 
@KevinB That's the point my friend :3
 
37% of the downvotes i cast get deleted
 
10:36 PM
@KevinB I believe an either higher percentage of my close votes go through. Do you have a good SEDE query to share to determine these numbs?
 
@KevinB I still have all my votes. If you post links here I can help
Oh, hold on: Not enough rep here, I think...
 
No, just quick math
 
@Fabby No that's not the room to publish that VLQ stuff coming from SO.
 
yeah, sorry! 1111 apparently!
SO? I think I have 111 or so...
 
@Fabby We already have the SOCVR.
 
10:38 PM
take the total number of downvotes from your summary, and compare that to the total number of downvotes in your activity tab
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I tend to forget that my rep doesn't carry over on the sites I'm not very active at.
 
25,567 vs 16,346 as of today
so 9221 of those downvotes are on now deleted posts
"serial duplicate votes for a particular tag" serial duplicate votes?
asin duplicate closure?
thought this was about votes up/down
but even then, probably close to 100% of my votes are in a single tag
 
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