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12:00 PM
eh, that's not damage control, that's primary damage
 
One of Tim's tweets made me think - what's worse than stuff not working because of cache? Stuff that was working until the cache expired on Saturday at 2AM and now it doesn't.
 
I'm no damage control expert but I don't think damage control should be harmful
 
@JohnDvorak one thing only worked between the cache invalidation and re-caching
 
to be fair... while the "sealion happy face" message takes medals for first, second and third place.....
I am not a fan of defining the reactions a "lot of cathartic and confused venting" either
 
@Magisch Set a cron job to invalidate the cache every second. Your site will run like crap, but it will run :P
 
12:02 PM
yo dawg I heard you like caching
 
I don't even know what sea lions have to do with any of this
 
so I cached your caching so you can cache while you cache
(that did not work but it's all I got)
@JohnDvorak google what sealioning means
and try not to scream into your monitor
 
Monica linked it in her medium post
 
Yeah... About that screamin, that's why I didn't
 
arf arf arf
 
12:06 PM
@JohnDvorak it's ok
Lots of people needed it to be explained
 
*mansplained? :P
 
Oh, I've just looked it up. The term itself is fine. Now, I fear the minute I get to interpret the tweet in which it appeared.
@AndrasDeak get out :P
I love that comic
 
The original sealion comic relies upon the sealion pursuing the other party into their own home in order to actually make the sealion look unreasonable; without that detail, you just have the sealion publicly responding to bigotry directed at them in public, and they've clearly done nothing wrong by doing so.
The trouble is that the comic exclusively gets used to criticise people publicly replying to public attacks on their character - exactly as happened here
 
"punch buggy blue no punch back"
 
@Magisch tell that to my wife.... she thinks I'm utterly pessimistic. ;)
 
12:10 PM
Ken White from Popehat mockingly calls this the "Doctrine of the Preferred First Speaker"; it says that I get to attack your character publicly as long as I speak first, but once I do so, your right to reply is magically curtailed, because publicly replying would be harassing me and suppressing my speech!
2
 
@AndrasDeak eh. Only insofar as I am a man.
 
hehehe
 
@Derpy to put it simply: compile the important meta posts for i18n, or let's follow Wikipedia's model with language switcher instead...
 
@MarkAmery I guess the big thing that worries me is any direct critique is going to be seen as more reason to attack us.
And TBH I am more concerned with how SE did and will react in future
 
12:24 PM
@Derpy I didn't participate early on A&M, but it's full of... ID-req ba dum tss
 
ah, so, people noticed the "uncouth material ID" questions.
just wondering... do anyone remind those ending up on the HNQ list too?
Because I seem to.
And now obviously I really hope I am miss remembering.
 
I couldn't really remember any old A&M HNQ...
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title (195): Follicle Rx : Hair Solution by Sidney Curice on webapps.SE
 
but meta discussions hinted that it did happen because hentai ID req was allowed.
 
sounds reasonable
 
12:40 PM
Trying to load Ubuntu 18.04 and getting Windows Vista instead can be frustrating.
 
that can only happen to you if you had installed windows to begin with
 
Well my regular computer is not in operation anymore
 
Ow
Trying to load window Vista and getting windows Vista can be frustrating too
 
...and my brother currently has the USB with Ubuntu 17 on it, and he's not in town, and I don't have any blank USBs handy. So I borrowed someone else's laptop and created a DVD with 18. But the computer I have to work with isn't recognizing the disk. Bleh.
 
On another note, is there a way to make an answer retroactively community wiki
 
12:43 PM
@JourneymanGeek Yep.
@Magisch retroactively? I don't think so.
 
@Mithrandir Yep.
 
New post about SO by Jeff: blog.codinghorror.com/…
3
 
@Mithrandir usb sticks are dirt cheap. Can't you buy a 1 GB stick for a few buttons?
@Magisch yes, I think the edit screen has that tickbox
 
@Mithrandir I thought you could just press edit and tick that?
 
I just checked and it does on SO
 
12:47 PM
You can make it community wiki after the fact, but that's not retroactive.
 
I assume the question is about making an answer a CM without having the ownership?
 
Any reputation changes before that point will stay, AFAIK.
 
@MarkAmery no news there
 
@AndrasDeak Probably. But it'd be easier to just wait until tonight when I'll have access to the USB we already have.
 
@Mithrandir That almost sounds like an oxymoron
 
12:50 PM
If I'm buying something already, might as well replace my burnt out cord for my regular machine.
 
I wish more people understood that the goal of Stack Overflow is not "answer my question" but "let's collaboratively build an artifact that will benefit future coders". Perhaps SO could be doing more to educate people about this.
revolutionary ^
 
> Would I trust them with my life? No. But I'd trust them with Joel's life!
 
Jeff and Joel with Joe Friend
looks like a title of sitcom @_@
 
1:14 PM
Triple J
 
@Somewhat To be honest, I though of this....
Yep, it is an actual anime.
 
It's also an actual manga :)
 
> Saint Young Men
 
1:32 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (94): Is ESD a serious risk on modern machines? by becca jone on superuser.com
 
1:46 PM
@JohnDvorak stuff or staff?
 
How would the latter work? I mean ... not work?
 
2:08 PM
By not responding?
 
@JohnDvorak I mean a staff is generally a elongated stick of wood or some other material. it could be broken in pieces
 
@Magisch usually six.
 
2:36 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer (51): How can I run a command from the terminal without blocking it? by Price Blogger on superuser.com
 
!!/location
 
@ArtOfCode teward/Solar Flare
 
2:49 PM
@JNat cross site spammer for your gentle treatment: stackexchange.com/users/14483660/swami-ji?tab=accounts :)
 
all gone
 
Thanks!
Can you also make the recent twitter drama be gone? ;)
Would be awesome, lol.
 
@ShadowWizard Well, if people wouldn't bring it up thrice a day, it'd be long gone by now :P
 
nah, it would arise again in the next tweet asking to change something on SO/SE.
Again, only if posted by someone with 1k followers or more, otherwise it's the same as posting on MSE. (aka )
It's all about the exposure, Jeff said it nicely in his answer that I just read. (If a big newspaper will publish something bad about a company, it will always lead to immediate change.)
 
3:05 PM
@ShadowWizard So. I propose everyone just starts following me. Whoever sends me enough chocolate can pick what I'll Tweet about next :P
@ShadowWizard That's ... a very not nuanced view on media. For one, there's several big newspapers out there and what one will paint as bad will be heralded by another depending on what kind of medium you're dealing with. Secondly, there's enough 'big' stories that are painted a whole lot worse than they are, and a company reacting reasonably to them can either give them time to make the change and/or prevent them from having to make the changes because everyone forgot about it anyways.
 
put a link to Amazon wishlist
 
3:21 PM
The question is, how to access that link without knowing/searching it first...
Because CoC hidden in the darkest void is the best thing before DoD
 
3:45 PM
@Somewhat I expect @tink 's amazon wishlist to be varieties of chocolate
This is all good and fine before someone takes it seriously and ships you 20 pounds of chocolate
 
*yawn-stretch* any new twitter-driven development over the weekend?
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted website in answer (178): Bone marrow donation vs. peripheral blood stem cell transplantation by aaron miller on medicalsciences.SE
 
4:01 PM
 
@Magisch Hmmm. I don't think I have a wishlist. I just buy whatever I want straightaway :P
@Magisch I can manage 20 pounds of chocolate XD
 
I'm mildly curiously tempted to test that
I did mail a unnecessary amount of gummi bears to a friend of mine before because he made a joke about it
 
The point with chocolate is that it doesn't really go bad. So although 20 pounds seems like a lot, it'll be gone before it's expired.
Or I could just do like that guy I know
(that was just a small part of all the chocolate he brought :D)
 
!!/location
 
@ArtOfCode teward/Solar Flare
 
4:18 PM
speaking of chocolate... I have a Lindt shop not very far away from me :)
 
weird that Jeff called the "people reached" metric, "neat."
 
Lets crowdfund a truck of chocolate to send to tinks house to truly put the statement "no such thing as too much chocolate" to the test
 
I'll donate
 
4:36 PM
I'm in :P
 
Hmm. This is starting to sound interesting :P
 
I'll go talk to the Lindt folks, see if we can make it a publicity stunt :P
 
I'll be waiting!
 
@ArtOfCode you know how I am with impulsive spending on novelty projects, so if you put something together, i'll chip in
 
hm
@Tinkeringbell you didn't get Charcoal stickers in the end, did you?
 
4:44 PM
@ArtOfCode Nope :)
Last time I checked, stickers aren't allowed here :P
(Granted, that was about... 10? years ago?)
probably more.
 
where's here
 
@ArtOfCode Home
(Or, if you'd like to know whose name is on the deed: Mom's place) :P
 
whaaaaaat
how can you not have stickers
stickers are the best thing
 
@ArtOfCode Ehh. I guess too much wallpaper got damages when I first got my hands on stickers, leading to a strict no-sticker policy.
I have a few stickers stashed away somewhere, for when I move out ;)
 
...don't you think it might be time to discuss that policy again? You're what, 26?
 
4:51 PM
@Mithrandir 27 :D Meh. Easier to live here when I'm not constantly pushing for new rules :P
 
Do you think her mom will move?
 
Also... @Magisch you're the GDPR person around here :P IF Art had my address for stickers, would they be allowed to use it to send chocolate as well? :P
@rene I'm supposed to move. I'm going to get an 'aankoopmakelaar' next week.
 
probably not, but it's probably classed as private business so it doesn't matter
 
@ArtOfCode :( There goes the court claim for more chocolate.
 
@Tinkeringbell and which area are you looking? It is a bad time to enter the housingmarket
 
4:56 PM
@rene isn't it always? :P
 
@rene I'd love to stay in this little town, but there aren't any apartments I can buy. So it's probably going to be Zwolle (YUK) or Harderwijk, or Deventer or something...
 
Deventer has a slightly better train connection then Harderwijk, right?
 
@rene Depending on where you're going, yes :) Deventer has intercities.
But that shouldn't matter much anyways, I've set a goal of being back in a car by January ;)
 
Then you only have to check if you rather be in a traffic jam on the A1 or the A28 ...
 
@rene Yep :D
(I can go early, I'm a morning person ;) )
 
5:09 PM
@Tinkeringbell if art was a business, no
but art is a person, so gdpr doesnt apply afaik
Looking to buy an apartment right away?
Is the renting situation this bad where you're at?
 
@Magisch 'right away' being for two years now, yeah ;)
 
for me it wouldn't make sense to buy atm. Interest on the loan + upkeep would be substantially higher then my rent
 
@Magisch If my calculations are correct, I could either spent 800 euro's of rent or a little under 500 on loan.
I'd rather spent on loan right away, as renting won't give me the chance to build up any capital
 
my rent is 375€/mo including utilities atm
was recently lowered a bit, too
long term tenancy bonus
 
@Magisch Yeah, I'm not going to get much more than a student room for that.
 
5:14 PM
mine is a 1 room 50 square meters apartment
all the space I need and more while still small enough to be easy ish to clean
 
@Magisch I'd definitely like more rooms. At least the bedroom separated from a living/kitchen room
 
"This is my yarn room. Why yes it's absolutely filled with yarn"
 
@Magisch Get out of my mind, please? :P
But yes, I definitely need a spot I can have a crafting area :)
 
ö/
 
5:29 PM
@ArtOfCode I'd be interested in hearing how that conversation goes :P
"we should send a truck full of chocolate to the Netherlands"
"okay yeah sure"
 
@joojaa Hello!
 
hello
why do we seem to get controversies on meta all the time
 
because of a "vocal part of the community" being "resistant", "obnoxious" even
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah, that really is obnoxious :P
@joojaa It happens ;) People are working on fixing it though.
 
@Tinkeringbell they are? Oh, you mean the rumors about shutting down meta? ;D
 
5:36 PM
@AndrasDeak Might work too ;)
But honestly... when my mom used to scold us, she'd always used the words meaning 'all three of you'. If any of us complained about it, she'd say 'If you feel the need to complain, you feel addressed. If you feel addressed, that means you did something wrong too' :P
 
that's factually wrong, but I appreciate her angle :P
 
So, instead of going over and over and over on 'they called us obnoxious and resistant'... you could just go 'not my business, I'm not that part' :P
 
there's an idiom here saying "whose shirt it isn't, shouldn't put it on"
 
@AndrasDeak That seems like it means the same thing, yeah :)
 
of course it's mostly a passive-agressive thing, just like saying "no offense, but" :D
> No, sir. I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I bite my thumb, sir.
 
5:40 PM
@AndrasDeak Well, there's plenty of legitimate uses for that ;)
Although 'but' is a bad word when communicating ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell i dont think so
 
@joojaa It kinda invalidates part of what came before it.
'You did really well, but..'
 
yes
 
'The food looks great, but I'm not hungry'
 
If your communication is aimed at destroying the other person then it's great
 
5:46 PM
but what i dont get is all this was actually known
Personally i think we should accept speech even when its not particularity nice or noble
Even when aimed at oneself
 
life's a bit more complicated than that
 
Yeah i know
bad press
 
Maybe they'll say something that will calm down the meta war a bit
maybe they'll sit it out
who knows
 
Sitting out would have been smart
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted username (93): ldconfig shows many libraries are truncated ✏️ by Hippy1970 on askubuntu.com
 
5:57 PM
either they'll say something non-actionable or they won't say anything; it will make no difference as the minor brouhaha shaking up the "vocal minority" will eventually subside and we'll be back to normal (waiting for the next episode in the asylum)
if they wanted to not let fair procedure take the back seat to public appearances then they could've decided on that long ago
 
If you don't expect anything to become better, why are you sticking around?
 
Not gonna reveal specifics, but I've gotten wind of a plan to release some Official Stuff soon about the whole affair.
 
@Magisch Things have been on the decline since I joined 3 years ago. I quickly adopted the opinion that 95% of SO front page is crap. I'm still here wasting my time and generating content. Why would I stop being irrational now? :P
To be honest I love the concept of SO, what it was, and what it could be. As long as I see some chance that it isn't completely ruined by those running it these days I'll find reasons to stick around.
and frankly neither the company nor the platform would shake in its foundations if I left :D
 
@Mithrandir privileged information (tm)
 
@Mithrandir *bracing for impact*
 
6:03 PM
@Magisch Being a mod has its perks among the shoveling of excrement...
 
@Mithrandir you're all suspended...
 
"moderators are now elected based on number of retweets"
 
I said I wasn't revealing specifics, but looks like someone leaked it already...
 
@AndrasDeak yeah, I can always go back to answers.microsoft.com :(
 
quora and r/programming awaits
 
6:07 PM
Y'all are an optimistic bunch.
/s
 
Thanks. I take that as a compliment
 
just shoot me now before I go back to r/programming
 
*waters Magisch*
is there a programming-related 4chan board...?
 
Its not that the community is bad as such
 
Nobody said it was. Oh no, they did
Oh no, I said "they" again :P
 
6:14 PM
yeah everything seems fine if i ignore everything they say on meta
By the way in my experience cacti work better when deprieved of love
 
So if we all ignore meta, everything will be fine ....
 
not a bad policy, actually
The principle of mutual I-can't-hear-you-la-la-la-la-la. Half of it is already implemented by the company.
 
Okay, let me post on ... wait ...
 
twitter
 
I can't have an account there. I'm too old ...
 
6:20 PM
lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2018-10/msg00001.html and gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html seem highly relevant to the community's current controversies.
 
nothing gnu under the sun
 
*groans*
 
@MarkAmery looks like the whole social network extravaganza is on fire ...
 
@MarkAmery oh, I missed that that's dated today, thanks. And (surprisingly?) sane words from RMS
 
7:02 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad asn for hostname in answer (59): Was universalism the majority belief of the early church? by Dolores on christianity.SE
 
7:49 PM
does RMS actually have a twitter?
 
TAKE THAT WINDOWS VISTA
 
 
1 hour later…
9:12 PM
[ SMOKEDETECTOR | MS ] BAD KEYWORD IN ANSWER, BAD KEYWORD IN LINK TEXT IN ANSWER, PATTERN-MATCHING WEBSITE IN ANSWER (245): HOW TO MAKE LITERATURE REVIEW FOR A SOFTWARE IMPLEMENTATION PROJECT? ✏️ BY MAX MORROS ON WRITING.SE
 
heh
got there eventually @Tinkeringbell
blame GitHub for it being late
 
9:31 PM
hmm. why is that message in all uppercase
 
11 hours ago, by Tinkeringbell
@Somewhat FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN'T CAUGHT UP YET: WE'RE FULL ON BUSY CELEBRATING CAPS LOCK DAY!
 
the one before it wasn't,
:p
 
Monica's blog was great. Too bad she's invested in that relationship, though... he's just not that into her.
4
 
@KevinB I changed it just for today :) change would've gone out way earlier but GitHub was down, which... kinda screws all our build systems
 
9:44 PM
I wonder if Tim will post a HNQ-related meta before his existing HNQ meta goes into the negatives
 
i don't understand what the big issue is
 
that's fine
 
"the existing solution is insufficient. let's find a new solution." seems like a good approach to the problem
 
There is no way out of this mess.
 
not with that attitude ;)
 
9:52 PM
I got myself banned yelling about how terrible HNQ was earlier this year.
 
Doesn't that kind of thing happen quite often to you these days? :D
 
I think that was my only non-chat suspension on the network.
Many users have been offended by it for years
But this twerp on Twitter is the final straw
Pathetic.
 
ah, I see
I mean the suspension part
 
IPS should be deleted but if you do it now it'll be a catastrophe.
No way out.
 
SO Corp: "hold my beer"
 
9:56 PM
imo, get rid of HNQ and find another way to promote other communities. HNQ only works because it is clickbaity, removing all the clickbaity titles and controversial posts will just reduce its effectiveness.
 
I'd love to see lukewarm trivialities there. Just like SO front page ;)
 
@SomethingBadHappened how about let's not bash everyone we can set eyes upon, hm?
 
It always passes. The drones stir, they complain, then everything goes on until the next incident :P
 
[ SMOKEDETECTOR | MS ] BAD PATTERN IN URL BODY (95): WHY IS MY HOTSPOT NOT CONNECTING IN UBUNTU 18.04? BY THOMAS WOODS ON ASKUBUNTU.COM
 
10:05 PM
I want a smokey report complaining about an all-caps answer
 
@AndrasDeak eh
 
(imagine air quotes)
 
So here's the thing. I don't think anyone can accuse the loudest voices complaining now of that
 
@AndrasDeak doesn't exist any more :P
 
I can't imagine anyone with more respect in the community than Monica
 
10:09 PM
In my limited experience HDE is also a widely respected level-headed member of the community
which is to say if I'm right then the level of good standing of people involved is irrelevant (sorry for the questionable English)
 
@AndrasDeak assuming this gets ignored
 
Oh, I thought you meant from the twitterists' point of view
 
Oh
I don't think they matter in the broader view of things
 
The twitterists?
 
It's a mistake to focus on them or their politics
 
10:17 PM
I agree, they (not even they, but rather how they interact with the company) are just a symptom of an underlying larger problem
 
The big big issue to me is that the trust between core users and the company isn't really there much
 
there's a lot of work behind this situation :)
 
trust is practically a non-renewable resource, so squandering it can lead to problems
 
I keep feeling odd saying this but this doesn't get better until SE starts giving the community team the resources they need
2
They're good folks but stretched too thin
I have some utterly crazy ideas but I doubt I have enough pull to make em happen :)
 
10:23 PM
@JourneymanGeek throw 'em out and see what sticks
 
@ArtOfCode well, I'd love to see more boots on the ground CMs. I feel chaos 2.0 would be a good idea - especially done internationally....
But I doubt SE will suddenly hire 2 to 3 new CMs and a half dozen interns from all over
As far as community goes - we keep getting told some other thing will make SE money and eventually things get better for everyone
But I feel that this whole situation is basically a result of folks losing touch with the community
I don't blame the CMs. Individually every single one of them is awesome
But I can't really meta that can I?
Here's the funny part. All these things can align with SE's goals
You want to help young woman in tech to getting SE? Who gets their problems better?
But at the same time having folks from more places in place helps with cultural perspective
But it's unlikely to happen
And the problems it solves are, well, not stuff that makes the company money. People have short memories anyway
I don't think anyone will remember this in 6 months
 
10:46 PM
yup
 
@SomethingBadHappened what's bad in IPS? Personally I don't like it because it feels like most stories there are made up just to draw virtual attention and reputation, but other than that... just another SE site with somewhat useful resources for those really in trouble.
 
@ShadowWizard waves sword
This is the territory of Stack Overflow and her allies!
Software Engineering, Math, CompSci, okay.
If you're more than one-and-a-half degrees away, you're a liability. Begone!
 
How many degrees does liberal arts amount to?
 
at least 2.7
@JonEricson very calming
 
@SomethingBadHappened good to see the old you back! umm... well, why not allow diversity of sites?
I do agree IPS is one of very few (only?) sites where answers are purely subjective and can't be backed up with facts and official links, but still... feels like it does have its place in SE as long as it's kept under control.
 
10:53 PM
It could be okay.
 
So what went wrong?
 
stuff like parenting can also be pretty subjective and opinionated
 
True. So IPS isn't alone.
 
but the weirdness of Parenting posts doesn't resonate with, uh, socially sensitive persons on twitter. Unlike IPS
 
"Wildly off-topic" sites can be a problem in how they effect other sites/the network at large. For the most part, it's not too large, except for... Hot Network Questions.
 
10:56 PM
@AndrasDeak Maybe only because it's rarely on HNQ so they didn't notice... yet.
 
@ShadowWizard no, at least I don't think so
@SomethingBadHappened the on-topic posts on a given site are on topic by definition
 
e.g. there was a question about "sexually active 6 y/o boy" there that I'm pretty sure could cause hell of a storm these days.
 
I found questions on Philosophy.SE most-frequently emotionally triggering, as it happens, but yes, many of them can be problematic.
 
[ SMOKEDETECTOR | MS ] BLACKLISTED WEBSITE IN ANSWER (92): EXCEL CELL CHARACTER LIMIT BY DAMIEN DADA ON SUPERUSER.COM
 
@SomethingBadHappened but HNQ part is taken care of now. For IPS, at least.
 
10:58 PM
I think there are other bad influences in things like moderation philosophy that cross-polinate in bad ways, but they're relatively minor.
 
@ShadowWizard "Taken care of". Nice phrasing. Horse head in bed and everything.
 
lol @Smokey still in CAPS MODE
 
@ShadowWizard If I let myself be reasonable that should be a big step.
 
@AndrasDeak Shog lives fine without his head (or more accurate, only as a head) so that horse can so the same. ;)
 

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