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12:21 AM
1997 called. They want their underlined links back.
1 hour later…
1:24 AM
@JonEricson @Catija Looks like I was suspended for a year over at Interpersonal Skills IPS SE. I already used the Contact US form but wanted to inform you guys too. My participation there has been respectful and also minimal -- no drama. I think it's unfair to let aggressive, bully moderators do what they want and suspend people they don't like. That sets a bad precedent for an already-controversial place to be to post and answer questions. Would you guys please have a look into this?
@adamlear looping you in on this too ...
I don't get involved in suspension reviews, sorry
ok, no worries
@JalapenoNachos Use the contact form to get this looked at - it's likely to get lost in chat.
1:36 AM
@ArtOfCode ok, thanks
That said
@JalapenoNachos Drama wouldn't have been the cause of this. You were suspended "for voting irregularities", which means the moderators saw evidence that you were involved in some sort of voting fraud. You don't have to have been rude to people to get suspended for that.
@ArtOfCode I didn't vote irregularly -- my last activity there, and I haven't participated there in a while, was posting an answer on Meta, agreeing with Tim Post and the Company's decision to remove IPS from the HNQ, and I cited professional image of Stack Overflow as the main reason. I feel a moderator didn't like my answer, and chose any reason to suspend me for a year. That's aggressive, given that my participation there has been otherwise minimal.
(you can see my answer, if you have enough rep there ... )
@JalapenoNachos You're unlikely to have been suspended for meta participation - very minimal moderation happens on meta. What I suspect has happened is that the moderator tools showed abnormal voting activity on your main-site account (like artificially inflated upvotes on your posts, or targeted downvotes, etc etc), and the moderators responded to that.
As you've figured out, the best way to get that resolved if the tools are wrong is to contact the SE team
@artofcode I haven't voted much at all over there ... once or twice.
1:44 AM
@ArtOfCode and it's troubling that such a temper tantrum by a moderator can be so easily covered up
@JalapenoNachos You can check that if you can't recall - there's data on how much you've voted on your profile:
right, so I voted once this week ...
if those are my stats
Aye, and 43 times overall.
yeah, that's not much, right?
1:46 AM
I dunno
I didn't target anyone
I honestly think it's my Meta answer agreeing with Tim that set off a moderator.
Here we go, took me a moment to find it
that's my answer
1:48 AM
@JalapenoNachos What makes you think it can be covered up? You've got access to chat here, you're able to reply to the mod message you received (which all mods on that site see), and you're able to contact the company directly. Perhaps you should just wait a little bit to hear a response from the CMs?
and I stuck by it, because I believe in it
Oh whoops, I pulled your voting stats from Meta not IPS main. Here they are
Coming here and accusing moderators of bullying and targeting you is bad taste
@ArtOfCode right, 42 a month, 4 this week ...
1:49 AM
hardly many votes at all -- and again, I have not targeted anyone either
@Rob ok, good to know
@Rob I didn't reply to that mod message, I forgot that message would go to all
maybe I'll jsut wait for the staff to return my message
Interesting. That answer was deleted after you were suspended. I'm not sure whether that indicates anything, but I'd assume what happened is that it was deleted as a result of your suspension, rather than being the catalyst for it
But aye, speculation probably isn't useful. The team will be able to answer what happened here.
@ArtOfCode it's because you're a fair moderator.
1:51 AM
@ArtOfCode you're a seasoned moderator, I don't doubt your judgments.
I've said what I've had to here in chat -- thanks for listening.
No worries
Talk later - thanks so much.
2:55 AM
ahh, tuesdays. The second worst kind of monday
3:39 AM
ah right, it's not caps day anymore...
4:08 AM
Morning! I'm in a rush, I shouldn't be here ...
That Low Quality content on MSE. Can't we Q-ban them ... ?
@rene looks like the queue is clear
4:46 AM
20K logarithm meta.stackexchange.com/questions/317157/… /cc @Bart @JourneymanGeek @ShadowWizard @Glorfindel
20K frontend meta.stackexchange.com/questions/317158/… /cc @Bart @JourneymanGeek @ShadowWizard @Glorfindel
delvoted both already ;p
5:30 AM
@ArtOfCode :D nice!
1 hour later…
6:37 AM
The official response is coming on american tuesday then, it seems
@Magisch Yep, I hope so ;)
It's probably hard enough to make it Wednesday :P
6:52 AM
I can imagine
9 messages moved to Chimney
is it still small caps day?
@Tinkeringbell I imagine the complete silence until then is calculated in an "let's try not to make it worse" way
7:13 AM
@Magisch I seriously hope so ;)
@Aibobot optimism! \o/
and TBH, I think its better they take their time and get this right for the long term
@Magisch well, kinda
At best, its probably a start?
but I don't see any other company having the potential to actually come out of this with minimal damage
(SE could)
long term will show that
@Magisch I could be delusional ;p
@Magisch TBH, we've been met with anything but complete silence? I mean, we've had two replies to our meta, Adam apologizing profusely in comments there...
7:16 AM
@Tinkeringbell well...
there's the damage control
and there's the damage prevention
@Tinkeringbell There's still no official writeup of the thing, and outside of a meta post soliciting feedback there hasn't been much activity. Adam apologizing in the comments is very nice but also kinda inofficial
@Magisch but acting hastily in good intent is one of the things that got us into this mess.
I mean, it surfaced broader issues
but quite literally it was something doing what he felt was the right thing at the time
I'm not mad at Adam or even Shane
iirc, they have confirmed that they still think the initial action was the right decision now
> That said, 24-48 hours later, we still think it was the right call.
7:20 AM
@Magisch well, if someone had gone into IPS meta, talked about the issues, and went "lets try removing the site from HNQ until early next year - folks have been complaining and we could put in some work"
it would have been different
@Magisch I don't really expect them to say otherwise, do you? 'Yeah, we removed you from HNQ and that was a bad idea but you're going to stay off anyways' will float much less than 'we did this, and we're still supportive of that action, even if we went about it the wrong way'
I was hoping for "We realized this was done too hastily so we've reverted it and will have a process involving feedback on if we reinstate it"
but Cat already said that's not happening so we gotta deal
@Magisch I think (and I'm sorry to say this) that the lack of communication with the community as a whole's bigger than just IPS
ya, but eating the crow (reverting the change for now) would be a show of good faith that the communication disaster was taken seriously enough
@Magisch and probably cause even more trouble
The smart thing here would be to actually help the site work through the issues that led us to this mess actively
7:28 AM
I saw this in the frame that I have when I make bad decisions on my minecraft server
say i banned someone I suspected of being a griefer without looking at evidence (as I have)
I'd eat the crow (unban them) and then re-examine if I need to re-ban them later.
Even if it ends up being just symbolic, a definitive acknowledgement of "ok, that's not how we do things here" is very powerful
@Magisch well I don't think this is totally due to twitter
and ugh, there's probably the whole "we also need to protect our people" side of things
sure, but the reality is secondary to perceptions here
If they undid it, Adam's probably going to be the "bad guy" for a lot of folks
@Magisch eh, its entirely about perceptions
in my example I might have a very informed guess that player is bad, but that doesn't mean I can just let the optics of being trigger happy with the ban hammer sit
hypothetical case: when SE agreed to unban, then the next day another "interesting" question got into HNQ, then "another side of SE" was surprised. Again.
7:33 AM
i.E it doesn't really matter what action I take in the end, what matters more is how it looks to my users
then again, these are my 2c. Maybe PR doesn't work like this on SE's scale
7:50 AM
Meh, just remove the whole HNQ from all sites for temporary then
8:19 AM
@Magisch Sure, but who are your users in this case? The tweet that started this was made by someone that apparently also uses SO ;) So, putting IPS back in HNQ... how would it look to the part of the users that are glad they don't see our question titles on SO anymore?
There's never one side to these kinds of things.
@Tinkeringbell my users in that case are those who can use proper feedback channels and not resort to namecalling
But you know well that using proper feedback channels didn't work well, right?
That's a failing of the company
@Somewhat that's a core issue we'd like addressed
@Magisch And then you're at the point where you have to ask what is a proper feedback channel. It has been pointed out a few times, but there's lots of people that just stumble upon SO when googling solutions for everyworkday problems. Are those people likely to go 'oh, I should go meta?'... If you're lucky, they file their complaint via 'contact us'. If you're not, they see SO/SE has a Twitter account at which they can be contacted, and they go for that..
8:27 AM
if I was at SE I'd be deathly afraid what happens when people actually take this to heart
think one twitter storm is bad? try one every day
@Tinkeringbell might be time to retire that twitter account then. Sorry I just don't think twitter can work as a serious feedback channel
It's the internet equivalent of canvassing in the town square
Before I cleaned up my Twitter account and changed my handle there to use it for SE, it was in my own name. The only few tweets that were there were all made to customer support accounts of various companies, mainly to the Dutch Railways (NS).

Twitter *can* work as a means of customer support, but then you need a team (just like in a call center) that picks up those tweets and handles them. And handles them all, not just one seemingly randomly.
The problem here is that the SO/SE Twitter accounts right now aren't seen as such, not by the users here, and it doesn't look to me like they're used like that by SE either...
The difference is, you don't need 50 rep to comment directly tweet at SE
SE shouldn't feed the no nuance outrage machine that is twitter. Tweets shouldn't even be dignified with acknowledgements or comments. I hate how the modern internet culture has come to rely on public outrage or bad PR to resolve everything
@Magisch Perhaps... Yet when I look at example ns_online on Twitter, there's surprisingly little 'chiming in'. It doesn't feel like a town square, more like a place where you drop your tweet and then wait until someone gets to it... Kinda like phoning them but without the need to hold a phone to your ear, freeing up your hands to do something else in the mean time.
I'd go as far as to say twitter and other platforms like it are a hazard to modern democracy and need to be stamped out
This whole social media outrage culture is making us less empathic, less knowledgeable and more easily manipulateable.
8:34 AM
@Magisch On that, we agree. But I'm of the opinion that Twitter can be a customer support platform, given the right guidelines and teams to deal with it. If I tweet ns_online having a complaint, I'm likely to get a 'we're discussing this internally' or 'may we DM you for more details?'. If you have such a thing, the outrage is likely to be less and more manageable.
@Magisch does the creator of Twitter had this kind of idea?
I mean, yeah. But in your example you're using twitter as a sem-public contact us form
@Tinkeringbell only if is not more effective than the right ways
@Magisch True. Is that so bad? I don't think so. The problem here IMO is that SE is on Twitter, and is being used as such too, yet isn't acting like one too... And that's what can cause bad publicity and such...
@Tinkeringbell Yes it is, because then your contact us form is a viable target for manufactured outrage
8:37 AM
Nothing different than using meta, but then it will be downvoted/closed/deleted
Crazy idea? It can become a right way too. This all started with me saying that Twitter could be seen as customer support by those people that only use SO as the end result of a google search for their daily programming question. They're not likely to be familiar with the intricacies of meta, of the entire network.

A question or point that's often posed to such a customer support Twitter account might be put on meta still...
@Tinkeringbell well, in which case they will need a lot more people...
@Tinkeringbell twitter is inherently unequipped for the type of nuance you need when presenting an issue on SE
The char limit doesn't enable that
@Aibobot I did mention that such an account needs a 24/7 callcenter like team to support it :P
don't forget, one reason we use the 'proper' ways is so as to reduce the strain on the folks handling it
8:40 AM
@Aibobot True. And it was just a crazy idea... more used to explain why some people might think Twitter is the 'proper' way to approach SE than an actual feature request ;)
another thing is twitter doesn't really have a good voting system, its just whoever shouts the loudest
Alright, I'm outta of this discussion, not fruitful for my productivity...
@Magisch Trust me, over the last week I sincerely missed having a 'dislike' button on Twitter... or perhaps just even the angry smiley Facebook offers ;)
@ArtOfCode Lindt is not chocolate. It is perfection. And pricey. Very pricey.
@Derpy Waaait... I almost got a truckload of EXPENSIVE chocolate yesterday? Can I still send my address to someone? :P
8:45 AM
Lindt choc is pretty expensive yea
about 2.5x more then store brand here
@Tinkeringbell lindtusa.com/…;
@Derpy Now I'm hungry! Ah well, just one more hour to go till it's almost lunch time ;)
is the chocolate... brown?
9:20 AM
@Magisch what's "Store Brand" 0_0
<3 Lindor
@Aibobot gorcery stores here have their own in store brand
ah. Not a thing here 0_0
... have just realized I haven't updated the cheese chat room in a while now.
... but... I guess... I don't really fell like to anymore.
welp, the cheese is stale...
9:35 AM
@Somewhat I really, really want the next one now :P
@Tinkeringbell oh, well... I was actually considering posting a final image in my now dead "a cheese for every network site" project
but it wasn't really nice, so I avoided that.
If you really want to know, this is the picture I had in mind. And I think you can guess what site it was for.
@Derpy either it's a photo of cheese in the dark, or my browser failed in showing it
also, filename: f4rty
@Somewhat nope, there is no cheese. Only darkness, and that is the whole point.
Add what I said before (it is not "nice") and you will understand.
there is cheese! you just forgot to turn on the light...
9:53 AM
oh, and by the way, I just noticed that while very worried about question titles that tweeter user doesn't really seem to remember Commandment #4... But perhaps Christianity users won't really mind about that.
anyway, would someone feel like to flag this question as ID req?
@Somewhat sorry, not going to step on anime.
Close call for japanese.SE. Good thing they didn't pull the plug on the whole site.
Do other sites have problem with the search, or is it just Mathematics?
I do not see anything mentioned on StackStatus or the status blog.
Search seems to have an issue, yes
10:06 AM
It's always been broken ;)
@Martin Search function is broken. If you type words which will turn automatically to tags, they work.
I am a bit surprised I did not find a post about this on Meta Stack Exchange yet - typically when there is a networkwide issue somebody asks what's wrong.
Or maybe just I did not find the post. :-)
@Martin Go ahead and ask.
How long is this going on - I have noticed that for the first time after seeing the post on Mathematics Meta which was about an hour ago.
Q: Searching on tags works, but sorting on type and status doesn't

LuuklagI just noticed that my search [code-review] is:q closed:no failed over to the maintenance page. I repeated the search omitting the is:q closed:no and it worked like a charm. Is this known behaviour, due to the way search is implemented or a bug?

10:09 AM
Search is crap so most people^[citation needed] don't use it
@AndrasDeak It depends what you are looking for. For example, if you are looking for a question which is asked repeatedly and you have a very good idea for the tags which would be used there, then probably the fastest way is to search for the correct combination of tags and check the featured tab.
In such situation I would definitely use the built-in search rather that Google or some other external search engine.
Is the context looking for dupes?
Yes, for example when looking for duplicates I often use this. (Or a specialized search engine which is good for searching mathematical formulas.)
Q: Duplicate Target Manager

Aran-FeyDescription This is a userscript that lets you mark questions as commonly used duplicate targets, and replaces the default question search in the close dialog with one that searches through your marked duplicate targets. A new button is added below the "favorite" button: Once a question has ...

I'm told it's great for managing canonical dupes ^
not very relevant to the search bar issue of course
When I have a bit of time, I might look into that script. Is it just standalone script, or does it require Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey or something?
10:18 AM
Userscript = ~Monkey needed
But that's a trivial complication on most browsers :)
10:32 AM
I have posted question about problem with search on Meta Stack Exchange. (I have included link to the Meta Stack Overflow post mentioned by Bart and to Nog Shine's remark about tags.)
We will see whether (or when) we get some response. Let's hope this gets fixed.
try posting an angry tweet about it
I would have to get a twitter account first - it's probably not worth the hassle.
Was that the reference to the recent HNQ change - related to tweet about some posts displayed there?
10:40 AM
I was surprised to see the post asking about how HNQ should be improved so heavily downvoted.
BTW are diamond-bearing users immune to question ban on Meta Stack Exchange (or even in general)?
yeah, read the top answers and Monica's medium post and this Q&A to see what's wrong
and I don't know the answer, but even a handful of decent posts will protect you from question bans as I understand
@Martin its really hard to get Qbanned on MSE
and its actually pretty easy to get enough rep to avoid a qban
but no, a mod on some site basically is a normal user on MSE.
Fun fact: The featured MSE post generated 23 reversal badges overnight as its score dipped into the negatives
I meant people who have diamond on Meta Stack Exchange (like CMs and developers).
10:45 AM
and it really makes me annoyed at the CW system
@Martin I have no idea
@Magisch how so?
@Magisch the CW system is a failed experiment IMO
I wanted to not get rep from that answer but making it CW would mean that I disclaim ownership of the post. These are my words, but I don't want rep for them
@Magisch shrug CW was never meant for that
Its literally meant to share ownership of a post, rather than be a get out of rep free card
10:48 AM
The two behaviours ought to be separate
"I do not believe I should get rep for this post" and "I want to make clear that others are free to edit this, and extend editing power to those who normally don't have the privilege" are almost entirely unrelated ideas
Sadly, they're arbitrarily bundled together and so we have to make do
@MarkAmery and it didn't work that well
@Derpy It's on the expensive side, but I've found they do giant 500g bags of those little ball chocolates which are super cheap for how much you get
@Aibobot Actually, I know at least one from other site who has question ban on Meta Stack Exchange. (And his posts seemed relatively reasonable to me.) In fact, this post has some warnings and advice for users starting on that site, including what not to post (although it does not explicitly mention bans): How do I participate in Meta and not die trying?
I dislike to be the guy that got half his MSE rep from posting about controversies
I'd guess that if you start by posting a few feature requests which are not too well received, you'd go to a post ban relatively quickly.
10:50 AM
@Magisch we're talking about MSE, right? With fake fake internet points. Don't lose any sleep over it.
MSE is about discussing and part of discussing is arguing so getting rep for being on the community side in a controversial topic is fine in my opinion. What are you going to do with that ill-begotten rep? Spend it on comment downvotes?
@Magisch I am also that guy
that's just excessive
hey, 3 more rep and you're at 10k
please don't commit seppuku when that happens
I'm actually at 10.042, but it hasn't updated yet
10:54 AM
ah, caching
well, congrats, you just unlocked a way to see the dark side of MSE... hopefully you can survive...
@Magisch Bounty the rep away :)
pass it on to Mark's controversial posts. No need for multiple people to be in this situation
I have no objection to this suggestion :P
I'll happily take all your political controversy rep
@Magisch I have... like 12 reversal badges
10:57 AM
as long as it's not artificial inflation of reputation :P
Sometimes you gotta wade into the mud to do good ;)
I like my rep and badges. It makes me look more important and hopefully that'll help me win the SO anniversary contests! :D
@Somewhat I must be crazy then. I sometime wish I could see the dark side, to see if the dark scary monsters there exist or are just rumors. And to see the names of those evil evil sea felines that were rightfully exposed to the public blame before someone removed their names (obviously just because of an error and not to avoid others noticing how bad things where)
Basically, there is a part of me that want to share the pain those felines felt, just to realize on first hand if I should be really there.
sealioning just means someone is asking for evidence / clarification and you suspect they have ulterior motives to it
And I hate that this question received a popular NAA answer. I just wish that Q&A could be cleaned up (and yes, the comment thread), but if someone did, then the community would be more upset because of censoring...
I regret answering that question.
11:06 AM
@Magisch no. It is different. I am not asking for evidence, @Magisch. I will be honest here. I am pretty mad at this recent incident with IPS, Twitter, the HNQ list and everything else. I don't care at all about the questions, I don't care about the tittles, the fact that arcade had more clickbait out-of-contex titles that IPS will ever have etc.
I didn't accuse you of it
All I care - as many others probably do - is what this incident showed.
I just took your poetic bit about sea felines to mean you want to know what that means
Also, hi catija
IE: a welcoming treatment of users based on a twitter post, with free namecalling and swearing emojis
What I was able to track down is already very bad.
To the point I am seriously asking myself if it is worth to stay here
And yet, I fear what I saw is only the tip of the iceberg.
@Derpy What you were able to track down may have been out of context...
11:09 AM
I mean, I agree on most counts, but this site has hundreds of hours of my work in it, I'm not ready to abandon it yet
@Derpy Well - its kind of a sign that, well, that we need to fix a few things.
And here's kind of a thing.
@Derpy do you have any questions I might be able to answer for you?
Folks in the community have been super super patient and trusting, and we're still at the stage where we hope we can kinda steer things back.
@Tinkeringbell first, there were actual names mentioned in the incident? I only saw the "DM sealion (swearing emoji)" thing. But people seems to imply that a few lucky ones had their names explicit mentioned in that "thing". Is that true?
@Derpy not in the employee tweet. But the person who complained mentioned 2 IPS mods by name, yes
11:12 AM
@Derpy The tweet by the SRE didn't include names. Kelly indeed named two accounts in reaction to that, and one of them isn't an IPS mod as far as I know (when I last checked).
But their tweets are also still visible out in the open, and there definitely weren't DM's by those two users.
But well, I'm feeling peaceful because I don't care about this incident at all. I only care about moderating a site. That's all.
@Magisch Yep, I know that the person who made the original tweet post mentioned some names after getting some replies. I wanted to know if any employee mentioned explicit names.
But it seems at least that didn't happen
@Derpy It didn't.
@Somewhat waaaaaait
You're a mod?
@Magisch no
as always it's a term that has specific meaning but people keep misusing it
11:15 AM
@AndrasDeak doesn't it? I just summarized / paraphrased the wikipedia definition
@Aibobot I have an access to the so-called "moderation tools" :/
@Aibobot regular user moderation is a thing. Very elitist of you :P
bah chat search is broken too
you mods in your ivory towers
11:16 AM
@Tinkeringbell I am but a tin can.
german curses
@Magisch well the SE Mod community on chat is smallish and we recognise each other XD
@Magisch anyway, I think it was discussed here that in the original comics the sea lion followed the person to their home and actively annoyed them with their polite (?) insistence that sea lions are fine (?). In this context I can imagine similar human behaviour that is indeed bad. But as always people are misusing the term for much milder (and non-offensive) things
@Magisch Hey, it's a good ivory tower :) Mine even has a wheelchair accessible ramp! :D
@AndrasDeak this is where I got the definition from
11:18 AM
and that's when I thought about "merlion"
I know
@AndrasDeak so... they are sealioning about sealioning?
> The troll pretends ignorance and feigns politeness, so that if the target is provoked into making an angry response, the troll can then act as the aggrieved party.
there's nothing about it being perceived
@AndrasDeak On the other hand, we're kinda letting this drive a wedge
to people with a chip on their shoulder actual sealioning and honest discourse may be hard to distinguish
11:20 AM
I believe I have seen sealioning on MSO instead...
I'm not saying the expression makes sense in practice
Its from a comic
and its somewhat obscure
I think one of the problems with sealioning as a way to describe behaviour is that it makes assumptions about the reasons for such behaviour. Unless that's absolutely clear, using the word might not be the best thing to do.
@Tinkeringbell its a simple, emotive label
It's an assumption of bad faith from the get go
sometimes those are merited, other times not
11:22 AM
@Magisch If I don't give the user the benefit of the doubt...
@Tinkeringbell oh, wait until someone wants to discuss the meaning of the word "brony".
Its basically a dismissal of any attempt to communicate or change her mind
it's probably a hip and modern expression for filibustering
Sure, and that's why we have "assume good faith" as a rule on the network
because you can't have a constructive discussion otherwise
@AndrasDeak Nah, that's where you make a speech so long as to delay voting, right? Totally different thing ;)
11:23 AM
twitter users needn't abide by our rules :P
@Tinkeringbell well, social filibustering
@AndrasDeak Which would be?
talking to a person in a seemingly innocuous way in order to distract/annoy them
rather than a government body or whatever
@AndrasDeak I feel the two are subtly different.
Sealioning would go 'This feels wrong to me' and then keep badgering people about 'do you have scientific proof for that feeling?'
they are, so I clarified with "social filibustering" :P
Even if that person chooses to disengage.
11:26 AM
@Tinkeringbell ah
that's a much more specific meaning
I'll take your word for it; I'm not a sealioning expert. Only learned about it from Monica's post :P
@AndrasDeak That's the first thing that crossed my mind when reading it. I've never tried it :P
to be fair, being on the end of a large disagreement on social media is terrible
at some point reading the 59th long essay about how you're wrong gets tiring
who's "you" here?
I was just talking about social media in general
most people in social media don't have to repeatedly read long essays about how they're wrong
11:29 AM
@AndrasDeak It could be you, it could be me ;)
@Tinkeringbell I don't read nor write twitter, so it could hardly be me
I do have a degree of empathy for the original poster: they probably got the far less gentle end of being downvoted into oblivion on meta, except instead of downvotes, they got varying amounts of swearing and arguments as to why their opinions are wrong
who's the "original poster" here?
the twitter poster?
They'd have my sympathy with their original post raising awareness of something they saw and found inappropriate. What followed it up kills all my sympathy
11:31 AM
someone can make a bad decision and still be worthy of sympathy, though
that is true
I reserve the right to judge the character of people based on their actions and revoke sympathy I'd otherwise grant
@AndrasDeak the funny thing is
I think they're welcome to their views
OK, chat search kicked in
23 hours ago, by Mark Amery
The original sealion comic relies upon the sealion pursuing the other party into their own home in order to actually make the sealion look unreasonable; without that detail, you just have the sealion publicly responding to bigotry directed at them in public, and they've clearly done nothing wrong by doing so.
I'm not happy with the way these things are responded to
I don't think the original poster signed up for becoming the lynchpin of a war between SE and its userbase when they made that tweet either
how would jeff call that, "the problem with popularity"?
11:35 AM
go away Magisch, I'm not reading that
@Magisch I don't think they were unaware it would have an effect either
that's probably true
people are used to complaining about everything to no avail
I'm a relative nobody
@Aibobot sure, but if I try to empathize I'd imagine maybe I'd feel a bit better on making such a snide remark, maybe someone would say "oh gosh, that sure sucks" and leave it be. Not what happened.
11:36 AM
but I tend to weigh the effect of what I say
they probably also have a bubble of acquantainces who regularly flog SO for being oppressive, so this might have just been another Thursday afternoon for them
Not that I'd suspect anyone here would'nt, but I think leaving the original poster alone would be best for all in this
I agree
@Magisch I'd agree but I've also been constantly been saying this ;)
This isn't about the tweeter
But don't forget it doesn't matter what we here think. We're just a vocal minority
11:45 AM
@AndrasDeak sigh
I should write "obnoxious, small and vocal minority resistant to change" in my bio
I kinda wish whoever said that didn't.
ought to elicit a laugh
@Aibobot we all do, and not just "kinda"
@Magisch hehe, I'd love that
@AndrasDeak but I think a lot of the voices that are loud now are the ones who're usually quiet
11:46 AM
.... and sorry, but I have to do this.
here, stared. Free to remove, but I have no regret doing so.
@Derpy I don't see any particular reason to
that's one of my least controversial messages here :P
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