[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body (99): Isabelle’s Luxuriance Cream by jfvsjxas on apple.SE

@MarkAmery do you mind if I clean up the transcript from last night a bit?

I don't want another tweet about how "horrible and misogynistic the tavern is" followed by another round of chat suspensions because something had to be done

it has been... 3 days? wow, time flies...

Lol

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): Prevent AdSense from warning me when my ad code appears on unauthorized sites? by Aryan King on webmasters.SE

@Magisch eh, do it. We can talk to him later if he minds ;)

He has apologized, so I don't think he'd mind...

Oh, hey. Did you already do the cleanup, @Magisch?

no

@MarkAmery nope

I'm okay with you deleting stuff

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question (93): Updating Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 by danica Miller on superuser.com

I can't delete stuff, only move

--> dev/null/

Move? To where? But okay, sure

:D

@MarkAmery to private rooms no one can see XD

The only things I'd object to is editing comments of mine without approval, or selective removal that makes other comments by me or others appear nonsensical

If you want to just purge my sweary ranting wholesale, I've got no issue with that

hands @Magisch the not-a-flamethrower

@MarkAmery What? But editing chat messages/comments so they make no sense anymore is one of the best types of mod-abuse fun you can have! XD

....

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (94): Fastest way to type in math formulas out of the box? by Rachel Dave on superuser.com

gizmodo.com/… 0_0

technically a flamethrower?

@JourneymanGeek It makes for good practical jokes? :P

@Tinkeringbell ux.meta.stackexchange.com/q/3130/47336 :)

@MarkAmery Ah... yeah :/

I still fondly remember the day someone edited their old chat messages to ping me, when I was complaining about chat messages not showing up... and me being confused for a solid 10 minutes because I did get the pings but not the messages. That was fun ;)

putting words in people's mouths without any visible sign that the attributed author is not real author is a power that mods have but should virtually never use, and only with the utmost care; not all of them see it quite that way, though

haha that's great

@MarkAmery I try not to edit comments

I nuke em all. XD

👍

(also editing them right is too much work XD)

@MarkAmery Maybe it pleases you to know that new moderators get the advise to only remove parts, but not rephrase ;)

excellent - it pleases me greatly

@PaulWhite DISENVOWEL THEM!

→ 108 messages moved to Trashcan | Cleanup from last night. Feel free to rake me over the coals if that was too much.

Hey, it's already lunch time! :D

This is a fast friday...

@JourneymanGeek DISEN... WHAT?

DSNWHT!

@PaulWhite My body clock is a rolex watch thrown into one of those will it blend blenders.

yes

oh well, next week's a 4 day week

so 3 days off

and I only work 7 days november

Somehow my mind turned that into cuckoo clock on a scissor mechanism

spinning in a blender...

it's also 3d

(I get reminded of that joke about my body being a temple. one of those overgrown ones in a forest somewhere full of rolling boulders...)

umm.. I don't know what to comment on that ._.

or I blame my mind...

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'kay, I choose to blame

!!/blame my mind

@Somewhat It's Tinkeringbell's fault.

wait

@Tinkeringbell's @Somewhat's subconcious?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

@JourneymanGeek I'm a good subconscious :P

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer (91): Reason for better save capability of QGIS 3 by RolandC Harcker on gis.SE

what is sealioning btw

oh:

@Magisch Ah, some old fashioned internet thing

Apparently, it's the thing where people ask for evidence repeatedly?

I thought 'singaporing'...

> Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility. The troll pretends ignorance and feigns politeness, so that if the target is provoked into making an angry response, the troll can then act as the aggrieved party. Sealioning can be performed by a single troll or by multiple ones acting in concert.

This is what IPS mods are accused of

oh, that's "merlion" :/

@Magisch Na, we're not.

welp, time to leave office now!! tgif!

@Somewhat Enjoy your weekend! :D

aight

I didn't know what sea lioning meant so I googled it

@Magisch That's cool.

I learned that too yesterday ;)

SE could use a Twitter policy, but so could moderators ;)

@Magisch lots of people don't

Yup

@JourneymanGeek Probably the ones that do, are the ones that use it 'in their defense' :P

I use my biggest words when really mad too ;)

@PaulWhite welcome to twitter

if you don't agree with me, you're harassing me, see lioning me, concern trolling, misinformed, a member of <group I demonize>, not real, a troll, fake, russian or any other of the dozens of ways you can delegitimize someone

My favorite one is if you try to tell someone that their advocacy for a group you're a member of is harmful is "well you just internalized <behavior they accuse group-outsiders of>"

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted username (93): Zero articles in movie and book titles by pawel maria on english.SE

o_O

Sounds like a period...

I'm strangely honored jeff commented on my post

@Magisch See! They still like you :)

interesting perspective on the recent thing here: meta.stackexchange.com/a/317041/308386

@Magisch As long as your heart is in the right place ... kinda an important thing, because... well ... I personally feel that whoever started all this ... didn't have that :(

@PaulWhite "interesting"

@Magisch I'm going to say it's disappointing. I've left my say there though. Hope it gets heard.

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[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): Samsung SSD "Wear_Leveling_Count" meaning by DamarisWWright on superuser.com

Jeff <3

It provides the truth.

@PaulWhite small slice with huge impact. E.g Trump use it to announce stuff and sting other people he dislikes.

And people use it to push SE into making changes that would never occur otherwise.

@PaulWhite What consequences are there?

We're complaining on meta, yes, but what else?

complaints on meta are a lot less public and easier to dismiss then on twitter

They would if that story had started trending on twitter

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body (98): Are the findings of the Rat Park experiments applicable to porn addiction? by Jimmy Widdle on psychology.SE

The result is most employees get more scornful and think the community are scum

Nobodu

there is such mutual disrespect

That’s because we only interact with the three people who care and the rest mock us in private Slack

And, you know, it works both ways. The more we're dismissive and snarky to staff, the more they won't care what we say. Thinking back to what Joe Friend expressed at some point.

"assume good faith" has to go both ways.

Assuming that people are "mocking us in private Slack" isn't helpful to anyone... whether it's true or not. It's private. Speculating about what's happening there is a waste of time.

If your values are sufficiently unaligned good faith can’t fix things.

The company doesn’t care an ounce about the things the community cards about.

They want as many users, regardless of what they contribute or cost the community, so they can sell job ads

Death by overfunding

Joel picked a business mode that doomed the company

You're assuming that they don't care. I'm assuming they just made some colossal mistakes.

There are some people who care

They are not sufficient against the mob who doesn’t understand or want to understand

Community engagement dropped off when they stopped having anything useful to say to us

Shortly after Jeff left

Could you please avoid expletives like that? Thanks.

@SomethingBadHappened you've had access to it at some point, was it like that?

I mean it's kind of a chicken and egg type of situation

the community is caustic and damning these days because they feel not listened to and not taken seriously

and staff doesn't like engaging because every time they do they're hounded to oblivion

That's a largely self inflicted problem though

nothing's stopping them from appointing a couple pro tem mods on meta and shunting the cleanup duty to those

Hell I can name 5 people who I'd bet would be willing and able without even thinking about it

I don't know the technical debt required to be fixed for that to work could be massive

I don't think so

they fixed that a while ago iirc

"internal" rooms have special features, that aren't there in the MSE private room I have access to...

even so, if this is truly so much of a problem maybe a dev should spend a while cleaning up the code causing this, so the cleanup duty on mse can be offloaded. Maybe it'll bring more staff engagement with users

I think the value of that is underrated within the company atm

people are willing to put up with and assist with a lot if they feel they're taken seriously

probably

the frustrating part is it's so easy: "Hey folks, yesterday someone pointed out $situation to us on twitter. We discussed internally and agree this is a problem. Can we have some discussion about fixing that?"

I guarantee you several highly upvoted highly sophisticated solution ideas will appear in less then a day

I would start with "Yea, this was a mishandling of procedure, we've reverted the change for now". Then a discussion on MSE about HNQ in general (like we have) and a seperate one to obtain community consensus to remove IPS or part of IPS from it

spitballing here, but it'd work

@PaulWhite yes, I would

the trust and goodwill of the community is paramount on a operation such as this

tbh if I was the CEO in this situation I would have never authorized this change

@PaulWhite yeah, it's bad

the community situation is markedly worse long time

then again I wouldn't be a good CEO admittedly

And next time the exact same thing will happen

I just read Jeff's response to "official channel", and I really symphatize with that...

I do wonder why staff response is so slow with this though

I'd at least expect faster damage control

this seems to be developing into a wholly unmitigated pr nightmare

@Magisch Fast isn't necessary good, it's what started all of it.

perhaps you're right

well, didn't it start to go south after... the lay-off?

@Magisch what makes you think it's slow?

@PaulWhite In the beginning, the universe was created?

Admittedly it's taken some prodding but they have responded on IPS and MSE

@ArtOfCode It took 40 minutes to respond to the twitter post. My admittedly naive view of PR would mean that I'd have 2-3 people on duty of doing nothing else then collating and responding to feedback for the foreseeable future

(I wonder what will be Norm's response to all of these recent events... I honestly miss his critical opinion, even if somewhat blunt/sarcastic)

@Magisch out of curiosity, who?

@PaulWhite (It's the only part of that book that I ever read. Thank the internet)

NormalHuman

@Mithrandir Taken from thin air? You, Monica, Journeyman, Tink, Glorfindel, Rory

@Magisch Can I please just get used to being a normal user somewhere?

just grabbed from thin air, there are more, but these are who I thought of first

Basically, existing mods who are also active on MSE...

We missed celebrating my half year mod anniversary yesterday :(

@Tinkeringbell you should be honored!

it honestly doesn't even matter. Pick any non employee from the top 50 user board, chances are they'd do well

it's not like MSE would be anything but the most mundane cleanup and collation of tasks

@Mithrandir Honesty? My first IPS (and also SE) post was somewhere in July, my first chat participation sometime later, I think by September/October I was an RO and now I've been modding for half a year (so since April)... that's all ridiculously fast sometimes.

And especially on days like this week, I feel like I'm running around like a headless chicken

We're all headless chickens at some point.

Fast food.

for extra bonus laziness, pick any of the current pro tem network mods. They're all already vetted, no extra work required

@PaulWhite Great. I made another inspirational twitter quote. Like I said... headless chicken.

but nobody except Sonic nominated...

As someone who used to think MSE needed non-staff mods... I'm really not sure that's a good idea any more... and that has nothing to do with technical limitations. Think about it this way:

@PaulWhite 'don't like'... that's not hate

@Magisch the difference is that the Twitter response was informal and unstructured. They're trying to respond properly to us now. That does take longer, but it really hasn't taken that long.

Now Bart won't like Tinker... ;p

We have a site that's been moderated by staff for years - since the SO mods stopped having access... People are used to that. When they see moderator actions taken here, particularly invisible ones like flag handling and comment removal... there's some ambiguity to who is doing it.

Also, there are just times where we need to be more cautious about how stuff is handled... and with a mod team, that's work to set up and communicate.

@PaulWhite It's right there!

@PaulWhite I don't mean ambiguity between mods... It's different when you're balancing it between "did staff delete my thing" and "did a mod delete my thing"...

You do gain some arguably impartial people to moderate difficult discussion with the community where y'all appear to have a conflict of interest though

It is when the stuff being possibly deleted is targeted at staff. We delete very little that many mods would probably delete on site.

sight.

Y'all don't need abuse any more than the rest of us. Non staff mods can delete that and remain impartial.

But what happens if we delete it all?

We don't know the situation of SE staffs' Twitter DM...

Goodwill an' all that

Think about it.

@Catija meta becomes somewhere that SE people are more willing to go because they know they won't get abused.

From what I've read, SE is becoming unwilling to use meta because of the reaction that is so common

As someone who's been on many of the Metas over the last two months... that has nothing to do with MSE.

When people get angry about things, they want to vent at someone.

As someone who also follows meta network-wide, yeah, the messenger got bashed for delivering "new theme" announcement...

The messenger got crucified, not just bashed