Tavern on the Meta

1:49 AM

ugh

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2:03 AM

@gnat !! meta.stackexchange.com/questions/314797/…

2:27 AM

Latest SEEN (SE Election News): DIY (for 1) and Engineering (for 2, Beta!) starts their nomination phase. Vi (for 1, also Beta!) will join on 10 Sept.

that's all...

3:34 AM

How many times I have said this in my office...

4:00 AM

@Somewhat print and stick on the wall

Good idea for motivation poster!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no parody. 1) felt like changing name, 2) didn't want Hedgehog Wizard again (nothing personal), 3) Welcome Wagon on the roll, and all in all bit funny here with your name. :)

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I was referring to the "inclusive" part, not the Sega video game.

Can a 15k+ user please protect meta.stackexchange.com/questions/125268/…? New users keep posting non-answers to it asking about their own suspensions.

4:22 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog only one user did it so far. Next time it happens I'll protect.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog oh

No.. Still not intended parody.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Somewhat Coffee is always fine :3

4:34 AM

@TravisJ Exactly. Probably the thing I need most when learning a new language feature is a working example I can dump into an editor and fiddle with. R (which is my current learning language) does ok with that because there are several standard datasets people use. But I still have a devil of a time when I need to use two different features together. Unless my case is common, I won't likely find a good example.

Optimus Prime

6:20 AM

→ 13 messages moved to Chimney

(well, this joke falls flat so quick...)

(yes, you)

Optimus Prime

6:37 AM

I think we got the joke now

No need to raise flags for tbh

6:49 AM

Just as I have predicted.... first time's funny, second time's stale.

it's up to RO to burn them with fire...

If we can return to our normal program now we're fine

just dont keep spammin em

that ^

ok.

7:25 AM

woof

._.

7:37 AM

@JonEricson just for my understanding (I didn't want to leave another comment) you have dedicated teams that work on either Q/A, Enterprise or Teams/Channels. Those are not virtual teams that are assembled at will (which manager is yelling the longest/loudest), right? Roughly the same people that work the same amount of hours each week in a single team. And this per dev-team backlog would ideally be size estimated to be useful for outsiders.

@rene Yes, there are devs dedicated to each product. I know pretty well what DAG is doing, but there's work being done on Enterprise and Teams that could very well make it to the public sites too. Probably, but I don't actually know what's going on at the moment. Obviously, we can't have perfect transparency even within the company.

I posted an answer to your announcement @JonEricson . Not sure if it's a legitimate point to bring to the discussion, feel free to get rid of it if it's not, I won't mind or cry censorship :p

@Magisch Nope. It's useful to have that perspective too.

7:56 AM

@JonEricson Okay, that looks good to me. It is not a problem if features from other teams "leak" into the Q/A team. It would be much less desirable if the public Q/A team has to dedicate (lots of) resources to the enterprise and/or teams team. Thanks for the clarification.

8:18 AM

SO Android app disappeared.

Erm. Did it get any traction at all?

@Magisch ehh. I think the pain point is the massive stream of comments where answers were needed

I think the bad PR is actually a bigger pain point for more people then the actual changes

I've never seen meta this hostile

There's an announcement recently? Did I miss something?

Nope

Likely they finally get rid of the apps.

SE app still there though.

I'm referring to Jon's announcement...

oh well, manual search from his account...

8:32 AM

There was no official announcement of the app development freeze, we needed to "milk" the information from them, and dig deep to find out the mobile team was actually disbanded. So I'm 100% sure they won't announce when the apps are removed from the store.

Oh, 4 hours ago

@Somewhat huh?

mixed conversation thread is confusing, right? :)

surely

Jon's post isn't announcement though, just a discussion. He doesn't announce any new feature as far as I can tell.

and I miss the context, since Magisch's message mentioned "announcement"

so I naturally checked the featured meta posts, found nothing, and was confused for a moment :/

And now, an honestly curious question: should SO's official comment evaluator URL be hidden from the public? I assumed no, since no SE employees redacted the post...

8:42 AM

since you have to log in with your SO account I assume only people invited to the pool are allowed to provide feedback anyways

@Magisch Oh... that reminds me. Does anyone know if mods can turn off surveys entirely? There's the survey option in your e-mail settings, but I've still had 2 so far. And I don't want any more.

@Tinkeringbell I'm the wrong person to ask, as I am not a mod nor have I ever been a mod

user310756

@JonEricson re this comment , does this mean this question and it's answers are just another source of stuff that the staff are dismissing? I have to admit, that comment has left me feeling uneasy

@Magisch Nah, but you're the one that reminded me I wanted to ask :)

@Magisch I just login with my SO account and I can use it. Don't know if it will be recorded though

8:45 AM

@Somewhat That might be a good question to ask staff

and as a corollary, is it encouraged or forbidden for uninvited users to use the comment evaluator?

@YvetteColomb It's wholly unsurprising though. At a certain level of negativity people just tap out

@Magisch My e-mail said that if I knew people that weren't invited but interested, they could e-mail a certain address. I wasn't allowed to forward the link/e-mail :)

I wasn't invited for the first round although I'm quite sure I signed up for it so I guess I'll wait if there's a second round

@Magisch Second round went out yesterday? Maybe that was even a third, I dunno. I got an e-mail yesterday.

> We'll do better on the next group in two weeks.

quick observation: username in the comment is redacted... only if it's on the correct @-ping format (and some users mentioned others without using pings) :(

wait, there's also unredacted @-ping @_@

9:36 AM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard SE app's still got a use

SO apps's kinda from the phase where they basically tried to go all in on SO IMO

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I thought that was waaaaaaaay back

@JourneymanGeek but but... it supports multiple drafts!

ran away

which... should be more useful on SE app instead since it supports more than 1 sites...

10:19 AM

It is always a joy if you give up on fixing a server because you can't figure out why certain services refuse to start. Only to find out that a shutdown and reboot will not work because shutdown.exe relies on a service that won't start ...

10:36 AM

ouch ^

@JourneymanGeek very limited, but yeah.

@rene Just unplug it. Who needs a shutdown.exe?

I virtually did.

You virtually unplug a real-world plug. I'm in awe.

status-too-much-plugs

Better then that time when I killed the server that wasn't on a KVM switch. A system engineer got in his car and drove 15 KM to the data center to turn the server back on for me ...

10:39 AM

@rene Hey, those people need their jobs as well ;)

@rene did you at least get the engineer a gift basket afterwards?

Yes, I raised 8 tickets so they got 2 hours spare time ...

lol

Your finger is surely very light on the shutdown trigger.... why you shut down the servers so much?? @rene ;)

IMO servers should never be shut down, just rebooted when required.

I learn stuff by experimenting

and this was still Win2K3 servers so they needed kicking more often

I never shut down my personal computers either, but that's just laziness: too lazy to wait 6-8 minutes every time if turning the computer on.

@rene but what advantage does shutdown has over just restarting?

People shut down computers to save energy/money, or when installing new hardware.... but other than that, really can't see any reason to shut a computer down.

Same as smartphones: doubt many people shut them down, ever.

(unless they need to save battery :))

shutting @rene down

hehe lucky

10:48 AM

I don't think they ever meant to give me the privileges but I was so detailed in my tickets and they found if they followed what I wrote down things went smooth so they simply handed me the privileges to manage the servers that were relevant for my project.

Thats really not cool @ShadowtheWelcomingWizard

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard it was user error on my part.

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Every weekend :)

@Magisch well if just any user could shut Smokey down it woudn't be good.. I test the bot... ;)

@Tinkeringbell why??!?!?!!1??1?? :D

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Just the work phone, but I don't want it to start ringing at 8AM

10:50 AM

@rene you mean lack of coffee? ;)

And that way, I don't have to charge it at home.

@Tinkeringbell ohhh.... work phones aren't relevant in what I said. :P

They should totally be turned off when not in work hours, unless written otherwise in the contract.

(assuming you have two phones of course)

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I do. :) One stupid iphone for work and a perfect oneplus for myself :)

lol

So you probably never turn your personal phone off. :)

When at the movies or the theater, in church, during work hours

10:53 AM

Just silence it.... no?

e.g. you might get some emergency call...

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard people that really need it know how to reach the work phone. And nothing is urgent enough that it can't wait till after the show

@sha You're actually privileged for smokey in the tavern, so be careful with your commands

It's luck that you didn't hit the actual shutdown cmd, but if you had, smokey would have shut down indeed

11:08 AM

Thought only admins can do it, i.e. those who can pull

@Tinkeringbell mother who needs you to buy something... isn't it urgent enough? ;)

> Tinker, we're out of milk, please go buy some!

hmm.... wondering who is doing the shopping since you live together? Or does each buy her own things? :)

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I pay a little money towards groceries each month. And on the days I work home, I sometimes do the shopping as well

But who says I don't have my phone on when shopping?

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard no, the shutdown and stopping commands are available to all privileged users

11:27 AM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard my smartphone decided to shut itself down... many times.

12:04 PM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard adult kids who live with their parents always do the shopping ;p

@Tinkeringbell which OP? ;p

@JourneymanGeek Which phone? Private. As I don't shop on company time :P

@Tinkeringbell I mean, which model?

1-3 5-6 or X? ;p

@JourneymanGeek Oh, the oneplus ehhh... 5-6 ish

Lemme check XD

(with a few Ts in between)

ah, I got a 5T (better for me than the 6. Glass backs make me antsy) and a very very very fixed up and cheaply uparmoured 3 ;p

I'm actually a little curious about the xiomi/poco phones

since they're insanely cheap for the specs and plastic

but ugh, I just got a phone, and I basically only buy new phones just before I get a new job XDXDXD

(usually before I know it)

@JourneymanGeek I have a 5T too.

12:09 PM

ah ok

Its the best XD

@Magisch oops

@Somewhat replace it! ;)

I had LG3 where the wifi hardware chip got borked at some point.

The poor device tried to check wifi endlessly

@JourneymanGeek I like it a lot. It's the most money I ever spent on a phone, but it's also the one that I've been using comfortably for a long while now, without it noticeably slowing down or complaining about memory

@Tinkeringbell same here.

@JourneymanGeek guess only food... hard to imagine children buying clothes to their parents.... :D

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard grocery shopping ;p

12:12 PM

yup

Though I admit buying clothes in the supermarket sometimes..... o_O

@Tinkeringbell oh, you mean delivery?

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard No... a 'huishoudpotje' :P Basically just give my parents some money each month, that they use to pay for groceries, and utilities.

oh.... so kind of rent....

Yeah

Wait... parents? So far you only mentioned mother.

Though I had the groceries delivered once during vacation when my parents weren't home. I must admit I could get used to that.

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Parents, and two brothers.

12:18 PM

Oh. recalculating

One big happy family and I want to move out.

Other brothers or sisters who already moved out?

I guess that as adults, living with brothers kind of feels like living with room mates, no? @Tinkering

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard None ;)

~$matrix

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Ehhh.. there's a 22 year old and a 17 year old. The 17 year old definitely isn't adulting yet.

12:21 PM

oh wait... the explicit write access is per room, probably.

in Top Secret, Aug 15 at 7:00, by Pseudohuman

That should be the response ^

@Tinkeringbell well, seeing his older siblings linger at home doesn't really help towards that goal.... :P

At 17 one shouldn't consider moving out yet, IMO... but 22 is already on the verge.

I guess that once you move, it will trigger the others too, at least the middle one. :)

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard The 22 year old has already been living on his own for a year or two. But then he got the job at the zoo, and moved home again. Same for me: I lived on my own during university, but I had a retail job at home during weekends. I didn't get a job with what I studied, so I moved home and worked retail. I've only recently (three years ago, but whatever :P) started a job where I could start considering buying an apartment

The middle one is already looking to move out again, but rentals are criminally expensive over here and he doesn't really earn that much that buying is a viable option

@Tinkeringbell do you want to buy an apartment rather then rent?

Also, Archaeology pays well if you can get a gig, so I hear

@Magisch Yes. Paying of the loan will be much cheaper than renting for me. I don't qualify for social renting anymore...

@Tinkeringbell oh... I see. Good luck to you both then!

Zoo... what exactly is his job? ;) @Tink

Hopefully not lion trainer.....

@Magisch IF :P I had the good luck to start in 2008, right before the whole housing bubble burst in the US. So, during my studies, more and more things got no funding anymore, and more and more jobs got lost. From the '90 percent will have a job within a year of graduation' when I started to 'Only three people I know are still working archaeology' :P

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard He works at the aquarium section. Feeds the sharks :)

Just sent me that one on snapchat ;)

12:36 PM

@Tinkeringbell lol thought snapchat is used only by kids, teenagers at most... :P

Image is rotated for some reason, hard to see. :/

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Yeah... I thought I'd saved it correctly . Sorry!

nah, probably some format black magic... some formats on phones save rotation as part of the image itself, but it's lost when uploaded to other places, e.g. imgur

If you click on it it'll be bigger and you can easily spot the baby fish

(i.e. not your fault)

So how many fingers your brother lost? @Tinkeringbell :D

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard none (yet). He's only been doing this for about a year now :P

12:41 PM

The fish look like they are ready for the BBQ ... on their saté-prikkers ...

sorry if that offends the animal activists among you ...

@rene Definitely not, I'm going to forward that remark :P

:D

Suddenly I'm Mr. Legal advice in my company

How about I just not

If you made one single clever remark, you're qualified

mildly grumpy that upper management responsibility doesn't come with the pay

I still make junior developer money

12:47 PM

Shareholders love you ...

"Hah! Figured it out." "What?" "I made a theory of everything-" "Let me see! Hm... Wow! You actually joined quantum physics with general relativity. Amazing!" "If you say so." "And tied in with.. behavioural statistics?" "Yes, so I could figure out where I left my keys."

Tweeted by MicroSFF on August 29, 2018 at 11:03 AM

For when Tim Post loses his keys again?

sure

@rene we dont really have any, just owners :p

And they don't like me much since I have to tell them all the things they cant do no more

guess there also goes my raise

@Magisch go on a strike. :D

@Tinkeringbell finally we can find Tim Post keys!!!

And get rid of all the unexplained downvotes in SE!!!

@Magisch only few people like hearing the truth when the truth hurts them... it's basic human nature, I'm afraid. :(

huh? @RobertColumbia why you have avatar with a Hebrew word? Just curious.... :)

1:09 PM

@Magisch sounds like time to start bringing that up?

Brown

@Bart Brown!

5

:D

This room has a solid welcome wagon.

Should add trigger to Smokey that whenever @jadarnel27 joins the room, Smokey auto posts "Brown". ;)

@jadarnel27 It's part of the new welcome policy

We have to be nice now

1:11 PM

And brown

So I've heard!

It can go together.

Yes, that wagon goes back and forth a few times to make sure you're properly hit ...

killing me softly ♫

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard we could drop a monitor on you.

1:17 PM

That's hard(ware), not soft!

Plus, monitor costs lots of money!

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard oh it's a running joke on root access

heh, I can share Den jokes here.... :D

but most would be frowned upon/flagged, so....

Someone wanted to ceiling mount a monitor and we joke that death by falling monitor would be bad

You keep your Den out of here good Sir!

in Shadow's Den, Mar 3 '17 at 17:19, by Shadow Wizard

Let's sing! @Bar @ber, @Pra @Pro, @ber @Der ♬♪

Good Old Times! ^

1:19 PM

"Good"

Now only @Pro remains somewhat active.... the rest are long gone... :(

Awww

Though we got some new recruits, like @Pri ;)

I have to say I haven't accidentally stumbled into the Den in quite a while. Must be quiet over there

@Bart yeah, except when @Pri is playing double WAG to pass @TheLittleNaruto in @Kenny stats. :D

Well, she did it big time...

oh.. not so big... she stopped when winning.

in Shadow's Den, 21 secs ago, by KennyBOT

BOT running since: Tue May 08 2018 12:19:48 GMT+0200 (CEST) for 113 days
username                      (#msg)
Princess Luna               , seen 21 minutes ago (3291)
TheLittleNaruto             , seen 3 hours ago (3287)
DroidDev                    , seen 3 hours ago (1551)
FOX 9000                    , seen 3 hours ago (1522)
KennyBOT                    , seen 2 hours ago (1213)
kId                         , seen an hour ago (978)
Princess Celestia           , seen 23 hours ago (773)
Baby Be'el                  , seen 5 hours ago (474)

1:24 PM

@Bart eh, I'm really unconfrontational when it comes to compensation

to my own detriment

I used to be. But you have to fight for yourself. Nobody will do it for you

Be smart about it, but sometimes it's not bad to push and see what happens

@Bart when pushing things might break...

hehe hey @Pri!

Yup. Even that is not always a bad thing. I pushed in my last job. Things broke ... ended up with a better job and much higher pay.

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Not just double, got like 15 messages queued because of rate limiting x3

Didn't mean to drag you here, but you're always welcome! :D

@PrincessLuna queued? You did it with script?!

Usually we just get error message and have to manually click "retry"

1:29 PM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard That's what I mean by queued

@Bart eh, they literally cant fire me

Messages laying around 'til "retry" is clicked

"failed" describes it better, I think.... ;)

for almost no reason. I could go in there and punch someone in the face and I may be in jail but not fired

@Magisch so you can work from jail?

1:30 PM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Nah, I never fail ;P

@Magisch ooh, get your gloves on then :D

in Shadow's Den, Apr 29 at 8:22, by Princess Luna

Fail

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard no, but not showing up is one of the things they cant fire me for

Dang, what kind of job is that?

@Magisch And not doing your job when you do show up?

1:31 PM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard That was my code failing, not me. :p

@PrincessLuna lol

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard more or less yeah

hehe

Lol ... bluetooth headphones ran out of battery. Monitor speakers took over. Too Many Zooz blasting through the office

Oh, bluetooth headphones. A while ago, I tended to wear BT earphones before sleeping to calm myself into sleep..... except it suddenly warn me "Battery low" in a loud voice and startled me back.

... or YouTube ads (on smartphone)

Derpy

1:43 PM

@Somewhat Life support: Low.

Nope, my dear Exo suit, 75% isn't "low"

I like how you specified "on smartphone"

@Somewhat :D

I use wired earphones now, on browser with adblocks :D

slept happily

strangled by cord

(actually, strangulation is a lesser worry... compared to a laptop pulled from the edge of the table...)

2:01 PM

The real concern is foreign agents hacking your phone and subliminally brainwashing you while you sleep.

Priorities...

Too Many Zooz - "Bedford"

@Bart Zooz?

►

Sniped xd

lol

@Somewhat or a monitor falling from the ceiling..... (see @JourneymanGeek I learn fast! ;))

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard its the official approved manner of death!

2:07 PM

CRT, LCD, or the lizard? I'd prefer the lizard.

Bill?

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard yup

An LCD won't kill you, and CRTs are a rare find these days

@Bart so you have a band in your office? So cool! :D

It sounded like it :p

2:09 PM

A CRT can kill you in maaany waaayyyssss

Eye pain?

I threw out my last one cause there were sparks coming out the VGA cable

lol

At least it didn't explode...

that's two.

I magnetized a CRT monitor!?

2:16 PM

but but

that's why many of them had the ~~extra fun button~~ degaussing option

2:44 PM

@TimPost My punnery has gotten the better of me and I made this due to a pun idea I had yesterday: i.stack.imgur.com/QKAaf.jpg

It is one of my worst post puns so far :p

2:55 PM

@Bart I'm waiting for over 4 years. Will it take much longer?

:D

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I don't think I have become more flexible in recent years

@Bart sorry to hear

All the yoga didn't help?

Yoga? I thought you meant yoghurt ... so I've been bathing for nothing?

Your base assumption is wrong, one doesn't have to be clean in order to eat yoghurt.

Unless you mean yoghurt bath which is cool.

I've submerged myself in the stuff for years now, hoping to get more flexible.

I do have silky smooth skin though. So there's that.

3:02 PM

And the corresponding sour mood?

touché

Oh f*ck off ... hmm ... you may have a point

@Bart Finally we know how your skin looks like! calling spammers to let them know @Bart won't need their skin care cream

oh, and for the record, the failed yoga is my fault!

Feb 4 '15 at 21:28, by Bart

Could someone help @ShadowWizard? That's yoga gone wrong.

Why are you reading 3-4 year old messages? :P

I love to... search.

:D

And now you're reading those too!

3:06 PM

True ;)

We're missing good trolls. Back in the day we had really good trolls on meta and in this chat.

@Bart Like these? I had one of those when I was younger :P

:D

bjbotling...

3:38 PM

@Bart Panama!

A man, a plan, a canal ...

@Bart יhe's still around?

No clue. Haven't seen him in ages

Same. Was just reminded of him when Bart mentioned classic MSE trolls =P

Is the colonel still around?

3:48 PM

He was posting on Code Review for a while. Still suspended on SO.

Ooh yeah, March 2019

He's going to like the new welcoming policy :D

We should plan a party.

And probably a separate re-suspension party for, like, mid-March 2019.

hahaha, that's likely

Feeds

5:14 PM

At least we can all agree on the enormity of this usage.

@Feeds hmm... this begs the question.

No, it doesn't

Dukeling

5:40 PM

Can anyone actually see the colouring difference for visited links on MSO? I literally can't unless I look at it from some weird angle.
Were they secretly just trying to fix the problem with that theme with this whole underlining thing?

@Feeds I'll just pretend there was an added pun in there because the correction contains "eated" and the topic relates to the past tense of "eat".

@Dukeling I probably need ~~@bart~~ glasses to see the difference ...

Dukeling

I suppose the brightness on my screen is such that it makes it hard to differentiate things of similar colours in general, but this specific one seems a bit much.

6:02 PM

I zoomed in a lot and then I could see a difference

Kevin B

6:48 PM

i can see a difference

Dukeling

Well, now at least we know who the robot is...

7:10 PM

I think the first three entries under Hardware here need to be updated as well but I'm not sure in which combination. Maybe @Taryn wants to have a look and then poke Nick if that needs another edit?