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12:56 AM
morning
 
Rob
Hello
 
Hola!
 
lots of stuff on meta 0_0
new privacy centre sounds neat
 
Hey @πάνταῥεῖ why did you mark this an fp? metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/119980
 
@quartata 'T' and 'F' are so close together on the keyboard
Easy to accidentally tap the wrong key
(Literally demonstrated that myself)
 
1:47 AM
What's a good way to increase the height of a camera on a tripod, if the tripod doesn't extend up far enough?
 
Put the tripod on top of a sufficiently tall hill
 
What's a clean way to create one inside your house?
 
A stack of books.
... or three.
 
.... back in the day, we used to have these things called phone books...
or encyclopedias
 
@Catija The question is, how do I get three stacks of books that are all exactly the same?
 
2:01 AM
You don't need to... you can adjust the legs of the tripod individually.
 
.... arn't encyclopedias standard thicknesses?
 
@JourneymanGeek Not every book is the same size, plus I don't have one
@Catija Can't exactly ensure it's level, because I'm recording a lecture
 
doesn't have a spirit level on it?
 
@Shog9 Only one rotational axis
@Catija Say, weren't you involved in film production?
 
lol
<---- has actual credits in a movie.
 
2:08 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ... yeah... and all of our tripods have levels on them.
 
@JourneymanGeek You have actual credits in a movie?
 
@JourneymanGeek Dude... I have like 20-30 credits on IMDb.
 
yup!
@Catija I have one on Ant Man ;p
 
[goes off to search]
 
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Aug 1 '15 at 11:21, by Journeyman Geek
@Bob @allquixotic http://i.imgur.com/3u6th4C.jpg This is my credit on ant man ;p
 
2:11 AM
I just stared at that trying to find your name... then realized I don't know your name.
 
hah
lemme tell you on the TL
or that
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog never bothered to update I guess?
 
@JourneymanGeek What?
I literally just started searching for names in the IMDb credits, happened to pick that one first, then posted my finding here, and... I got it right?
 
but you know I'm of indian origin, and not a coder so....
not that hard a guess?
 
2:14 AM
My eyes gravitate to the right
Noticed an Indian name
 
that job was fun
 
@Catija Anyway...have any experience recording lectures?
 
also lol
could you delete that?
I don't really want my real name on the transcript?
I'd be cooler before but... eh, had a few incidents that have me a bit weary
 
@JourneymanGeek I flagged with the reason "user request"
 
thanks
 
2:18 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Not really...
 
I mean I could shove it in the chimney but I want it gone gone
 
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, it would be very easy to find you...not many Van Coon's in Singapore, are there?
 
Get the reference?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog And most of the folks in that list arn't in singapore
no?
 
2:21 AM
@JourneymanGeek Sherlock
 
hm
I'm going to pop it in the chimney
 
@Shog9 Could you take care of the flag please?
 
@Catija So I have a sound recorder in my pocket wired to a lav mic, a clapperboard, a camera with live-view remote (same one you saw me using at the airport), and a presenter remote to control slides behind me; can I do it by myself?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog s/clapperboard/slate
Why do you need a slate for a presentation recording?
 
2:29 AM
Align audio with video in post
Mic on camera is terrible
 
Ah. That's fair.
But is it a live presentation?
 
No, a recording
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog As long as you're standing still and planning to edit, you should be fine.
 
@Catija Maybe if you're interested in learning programming I can show you my videos - an introduction to programming in Java
I already have the slides prepared for two lectures
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Andy's been trying to teach me Python.... off and on... mostly off.
 
hey
2:35 AM
(not so) morning...
 
@Catija Maybe I can do a better job teaching you Java?
 
hey
(sorry, "abusing" deleted message to PM someone)
 
@hey but its a common name
and my legal name is the other way around.
 
ROs can see deleted messages
 
and initial/firstname is shared with someone more famous
 
hey
2:40 AM
yeah, just saying.. since we don't want to leak PII here anyway...
 
yup
oh its not a secret
just don't want it so obvious at the moment
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog that's the point
 
@JourneymanGeek Got a second? Have something to run by you
 
 
1 hour later…
hey
4:01 AM
@SmokeDetector meanwhile, still alive
Oooh... I got logged out on many SE sites...
 
4:58 AM
3 messages moved to Chimney
 
5:13 AM
\o morning
 
5:41 AM
@hey Does your IP change often?
 
6:18 AM
@quartata Must have been accidential :-(
 
@πάνταῥεῖ you can change feedback
 
hey
@TravisJ usually not, but current at office, so anything could happen...
 
Is it a good idea to ID a user here? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310339/…
 
Tough call. The user has been public about this.
Deleted until further notice.
 
fair enough
 
6:29 AM
I'm wondering if we should go ahead and point to the user in question (because he's been quite vocal about it), or not reference the user at all.
If editing and undeleting the question, a mod may need to redact revisions.
 
hey
I think the answer is still the same: we can't help them directly. Probably a mod flag to redact the chat is also needed, and tell them to have a proper consultation.
 
orrr realise if there's a problem, I'd need to go to a CM anyway
and I'm right there, trying to deal with it
 
I was thinking that as an end-user, there should not be a need for special mod tools to address this concern.
 
cause yanno? I'm familiar with this guy. THis is exactly like the time he was vomiting blood
 
Okay... can a CM or developer hard-delete the question?
 
6:32 AM
and various other things like that
 
o_O
 
Like man. If I'm not there, sure. But but
I'm there. Quix is there, bob's there...
 
I'd let journey and cm's deal with it
seems like the kind of thing that requires a 1 on 1 solution and a lot of care when handling
 
I was thinking this needs to be escalated to CMs since it's beyond my authority to address.
Again, if a CM is around, can this question be hard-deleted?
 
I'm hurt :( . You don't trust my judgement ?
cause I'd totally escalate it to a CM or ask for help if I couldn't handle it
 
6:35 AM
Private chat room time?
I'm not a mod so I'm not too familiar with the tools available for this purpose.
I trust you.
 
Just... let me deal with this
ok?
 
What happens in chat stays in chat.
 
hey
... I read it...
(why English makes it hard to distinguish the tense for "read " >_<)
 
6:50 AM
@JourneymanGeek, I was thinking about alternate explanations for this behavior and even if there wasn't a genuine drug issue at hand, a user wouldn't be posting such alarming content without a serious unmet need.
 
@bwDraco Other than that he's had a extended tendancy to demand attention
 
So even if he's just desperate for attention, he's probably feeling unwell mentally.
 
Remember the time he was coughing up 'blood' ?
Its a day. I've had to suspend him for medical reasons before
 
I've had firsthand experience with these feelings:
 
hey
Looks like the deeper problem is the attention seeker
 
6:52 AM
So I know how it feels.
 
@JourneymanGeek This is all really weird. Is this a common occurence in root access?
I might have to lurk there more
 
hey
@user5389107 seems only for 1 specific user
 
It's been happening mostly these past few weeks, and it's one specific user.
 
@user5389107 That user's one of those folks who's great on good days, but... sometimes can be trying
 
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jan 16 at 8:20, by bwDraco
I tend to see trolls as having some kind of unmet need underpinning the behavior.
 
hey
6:56 AM
But having excellent subject-matter knowledge doesn't mean there's no problem in other aspects...
 
yup
so. Here's the thing.
In situations like that you need a little nuance. You need to analyse human nature. You need patience
 
@JourneymanGeek You want us to stop talking about it and enabling it, right?
 
Well there yes
 
My approach to dealing with problem users is to understand why. You need to drill deep and understand exactly what the user wants.
Yes, the user is demanding attention. The question is why?
 
Your approach is typically to go off half cocked
usually when folks are trying to deal with it
 
hey
6:58 AM
It's hard to get the why when the user is under unstable condition
 
So... what can I learn from this incident in case I need to deal with something like this?
 
sadly. We can't fix em all.
@bwDraco look around and if folks are dealing with it, just... let them
 
I'm still aspiring to be an RO and eventually a mod FWIW, though these efforts have been scaled back.
 
hey
The answer is to defuse the situation... tactfully.
 
I'd love to point out - I became a RO on RA by accident.
I became an RO here cause I was on a lot and we can clean up after smokey
 
7:02 AM
@JourneymanGeek... is my arrogance a problem?
 
Well, every person has things they are good at, and things they arn't.
 
Your humility sets an example for the rest of us. I have been fighting arrogance issues IRL for the better part of a year.
 
and occationally things that they get baffled about but do anyway
As someone with a small position of authority - the hardest thing to do is ... nothing
 
> small position
 
but sometimes you need to trust the folks around you
 
7:03 AM
That's the problem. I'm arrogant.
I tend to treat being a mod or RO as a big deal. It's not.
 
shrug I'm one of a few mods on a smaller stack exchange site.
and I'm surrounded by great folk, both on SU and in the broader mod community
 
I'll say this: I do this because I care about users' well-being.
 
and SU is not much work. Compared to say Catija on IPS, or those folks with a half dozen modships
 
hey
There's no "I" in "we". If you lack something when others available, it's better to let them handle it, and at the same time you learn how they do it.
 
And yanno?
 
7:06 AM
So... hints on humility?
 
If one day I go "damn, I don't feel like handling flags, or dealing with people" - there's excellent folks, not moderators or otherwise who I an trust
 
For clarity: Am I in trouble or anything because of the way I handled this incident?
 
Nope!
You did what you felt was the best course of action
 
Did I actively interfere?
 
You didn't trust the folk around you
 
7:08 AM
I'm honestly trying to help, but I don't want to step on your toes when doing so.
 
So, lets say, I woke up one morning, and there's an incident...
and someone was dealing well with it
Dosen't have to be a mod on SU, say an external mod, or even a trusted user.
I'd let them
 
@JourneymanGeek TBH... this is a nonobvious case of arrogance. I was basically trying to stand in for a mod by attempting to address the problem myself.
 
At most, once its done, I'd go "hey, thanks for the assist"
Cause yanno? Contrary to popular myth? I do need sleep.
@bwDraco also, its worth remembering...
You're not very good at getting people.
Its fine. Not everyone is.
 
It's lack of social experience. I've been trying to use gentler wording but there's no substitute for experience.
 
hey
TBH, helping user psychologically/mentally is not a simple task. That's why there are Samaritan-kind help centers that are trained for this certain situation.
 
7:13 AM
So...
I'm the guy with a lot of odd skills in the family
I change taps. I sew badly...
 
> [...] fucking hell I can't believe I'm saying this but also @bwDraco. For helping me and not kick/banning me [...]
This very message shows how far I've come.
 
However, I cannot for the life of me install a motor belt on a sewing machine or turn off our main water supply
So I'd go "Daaaaad! ENGINEER THING! HELP!"
then I do the rest
 
But there's still a long way to go.
 
@bwDraco see, the key here is... it isn't about you
 
FWIW, I've only just started learning to do simple electrical tasks. I just installed a dimmer switch today.
I'm not a trained electrician, and likely will never be one.
 
hey
7:15 AM
... I can't even cook simple fried rice.
 
I once got electrocuted trying to remove a power cord from a computer
 
I don't like to do mains. But I do want to fit on a few smart switches so my mom can stop yelling across the apartment and just turn my room lights off and on ;p
 
hey
and I'm still afraid of cutting peeling fruits with knives...
 
hah
got electrocuted trying to fix a PSU :)
 
But FWIW, I do this because I feel I can learn to be a better people person.
It's normal to have aspirations.
 
7:18 AM
true but one does not learn to swim by jumping into deep water
these situations need tact and a very thick skin (by the looks of things)
 
@JourneymanGeek but all you have is fur
curly fluffy fur but still
 
But it's key to bear in mind what you can and cannot do. While you may eventually be able to attain a certain level of skill in a certain field, it does not mean you can jump ahead without actually having attained said level of skill.
 
@user5389107 and an armoured stache
 
I don't see social soft skills as an impossibility. But it's something I need to work on before I can start tackling mod work.
 
I have no intuition when it comes to soft skills and social stuff
 
7:21 AM
@bwDraco see "tackling mod work"
 
more then a decade of awkward and painful trial and error
 
@user5389107 hah
I was a shutin for a few years.
 
I need to realize that no matter how attainable a particular level of skill is, what matters right now is your current skill, and that you base your decisions on that rather than be deceived by your own aspirations.
 
also stopped socialsing on the internet
@bwDraco stop thinking of it as leveling up or a challenge or something expected of you
 
I like online better then socialising in real life because online I can easily hide when I get sensory overload
 
7:22 AM
@user5389107 same here...
 
also I can step away and/or mute myself easily
 
My point is, arrogance is what leads to mistakes like this.
 
@user5389107 ugh those suck
I used to have that
 
easier to walk away online
 
though. ugh, those people jackhammering outside.
 
7:23 AM
@JourneymanGeek isnt that what you are doing right now :p
 
I get that a lot. When more then one person is talking in discord for instance I get severe headaches and confusion because I can't tune out anyone's voice very well
 
hey
@JourneymanGeek same...
 
@SurajRao I got better?
 
In real life it sucks harder because you can't easily extricate yourself
 
7:24 AM
So... what's the best way to address an arrogance problem?
 
You'd love my job
@bwDraco stop being arrogant
:)
 
@JourneymanGeek Do you have a mute button?
 
I suppose that stuff like the diamond will simply come naturally and that there's no need or reason to explicitly push for it.
 
@user5389107 I don't see anyone 12 hours a day
 
The way to get a diamond is not to push for one
 
7:25 AM
@bwDraco the diamond's nothing more than a nice hat and a few extra tools
 
Either it happens or it doesn't. I had to learn that too
 
hey
erm... diamond on SE is decided by votes, not naturally though...
 
Literally nothing I did just now, other than the suspension needed a diamond.
 
I simply need to focus on what I do best and not worry about it.
 
@hey well in a practical sense - some folk just have either the good luck or the charisma to be a mod.
 
7:26 AM
I honestly really admire your soft skills and realize it matters everywhere in life.
 
For some of the stuff I'd like to do on SO I'd need to be a mod but I realized it's not happening
 
hey
@JourneymanGeek but correlation does not imply causation, and I believe there are some mods that are (kind-of) arrogance~
 
@user5389107 meh, its mostly handling flags ;)
 
The hard part is, I reject the idea that lack of talent in a particular skill permanently bars you from doing certain jobs no matter how hard you try.
 
@hey I did blame luck right?
 
7:28 AM
@JourneymanGeek I know relatively exactly what it is, that's why I'm interested. I love janitorial work
 
hey
@JourneymanGeek yeah, you lucky guy :p
 
I've always felt that no matter how deficient you may be in some skill, you can always work on it.
 
@bwDraco you can't force soft skills.
 
I also know that before I win an SO election, hell will freeze over twice
 
@user5389107 but you can always get started on that without being a mod
Amusingly enough?
 
7:28 AM
But hey, the Cubs won the World Series after 108 years without a title, right?
 
I really hate spam
 
Handling serial voting stuff is unproductive if you're not a mod
 
@user5389107 funny thing
I'm terrible at that, and finding socks
 
Because then you just operate on guesses and force the mods and cm's to do the heavy lifting
 
our tools there kinda... need a lot of guesswork
 
7:30 AM
And you might get a mod that doesn't care or doesn't do this regularly enough to see the pattern on borderline cases
 
and even then, it needs a CM to do the invalidation and such
hah
 
@JourneymanGeek try being a user. I had to use a security exploit to even get time correlation for votes
 
hey
But... well.... there's also task priority when being a mod...
 
@user5389107 I was a pretty normal user until 3 years ago
I'm still a pretty normal user on all the other sites
 
The simple fact of the matter is that for what i'd like to do with serial voting I don't have any of the tooling
 
7:31 AM
Granted, my priorities are kinda focused on "OOOH SHINY CONTENT"
 
And I'm not getting that any time soon, so it's better for me to drop that avenue of interest meanwhile
 
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jan 28 at 7:15, by bwDraco
Very few people can get to this point, but it's my philosophy that everyone has the ability to do great things...
 
@user5389107 and you can't really fix it all
I can't
 
hey
Like, I (or, we) know serial voting is bad, but is it destructive enough?
 
sure
but I'm sure I could make a difference
 
7:32 AM
There's several thousand insurance spammers I wish I had the time to gleefully cackle and annilate
 
maybe that's vanity speaking
 
but meh I do more good posting meta posts, or dealing with flags, or just hanging out with users
 
I've been told by others that I need to go out and socialise more. Is this a good idea?
 
@JourneymanGeek all you have to do is spend some time in charcoal for that
 
(trying not to use American English because it isn't globally accepted :P)
 
7:34 AM
@SurajRao specific spammers
 
hey
Well, one thing to improve social skill is... to socialize in a more diverse group, me think?
 
@bwDraco probably
 
But because I have limited resources, which of these problems should I try to address first: arrogance, or poor soft skills?
The dragon needs to take a nap soon, so I can't stay here for too long.
 
in a sense, they are related
 
Sure, but should I focus on either?
I'm leaning towards "arrogance" first because it blocks (to a degree) improving the social issues.
But will the arrogance go away on its own if I socialize more?
 
7:39 AM
Well, I actually feel in a broader context...
 
I'm trying to create an action plan of sorts.
 
It's an issue of mentality and approach mostly
 
you really crave respect and positional power
 
@JourneymanGeek See this message and its context:
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Oct 14 '15 at 6:45, by DragonLord
I'm not easily pleased, and I'm dependent on others to validate my performance.
 
So, don't depend on that
 
7:42 AM
That was some of the best popcorn meta I have seen in a while bwDraco
 
@TravisJ :(
 
feels wrong to popcorn over someone's mental issues
you can think what you want about the guy, but it's not kind to rub it in
 
He is a funny person. I wouldn't call it a mental issue either.
 
Depend on the folks around you
 
I've done deep dives into why I'm like this in the past and really want to fix it.
 
7:43 AM
@TravisJ oh man
go search for "blood" under his account on the other server
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jan 24 '17 at 11:55, by Journeyman Geek
@Dog I've suspended you for 24 hours. If you survive, hopefully, you'll come back. Do get medical attention if you're caughing blood. Its a dour way to die.
 
Long story short, I've suffered more than my fair share of behaviorial/disciplinary issues in elementary school, which has led me to yearn for the ability to behave better.
 
and the incident with the monitor on the ceiling
and..
 
Not really wanting to hash any of that though, I didn't bring it up on meta.
 
hey
@JourneymanGeek ... this looks really familiar, was it mentioned on MSE, or probably on here before?!
 
Addiction is a tough issue to deal with.
 
7:46 AM
Among other things, this is why I put so much effort into trying to understand why I do the wrong thing or misbehave.
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Oct 14 '15 at 6:53, by DragonLord
As I grew increasingly frustrated over my behavioral issues, I grew a fervent desire to overcome them. I kept trying and failing and trying and failing...
 
The first step is acknowledging there is a problem. It seemed like you made some progress with that with that user, so hopefully they take some sort of meaningful action.
 
This is a weird conversation
 
hey
It's Tavern. In the daylight. ugh, time zone
 
ooooh boy
I might go quiet awhile
something might have gone horribly wrong at work
 
My point is, there's progress.
But there's a long road ahead.
 
7:49 AM
Are you DragonLord in those messages?
(sorry, confused)
 
Yes, that was my old username.
 
hey
@bwDraco and I believe it. We all can be a better person.
 
Yeah ain't that the truth @hey
 
lol
 
:)
Progress is good @bwDraco!
@JourneymanGeek Is it on fire?
 
hey
7:53 AM
 
To me, life is meaningless without progress.
Which is why I take a forward-looking mindset to things, including my abilities as a human being.
Better is always possible.
 
#kaizen
 
hey
@bwDraco Coming from someone who has an over-pessimism mindset (hint: me), that's a great mindset...
 
Such a subtle hint though :)
@hey The main risk to excessive pessimism is giving up without even trying. The technical term is defeatism
 
@TravisJ no
 
7:59 AM
No fire? So the spider lives then?
 
I hold near and dear to my heart the idea that no matter how bleak things may seem, there's always a chance to succeed.
So... it's 4 AM here. Good night, folks.
 
hey
nite :)
 
ok. sorted
(someone else is dealing with it)
 
@bwDraco Good night :)
@JourneymanGeek delegate. delegate. delegate.
 
@TravisJ or the idea that I have a certain degree of control over what I do, but not over what happens
 
8:01 AM
in Root Access on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jul 28 '15 at 21:22, by DragonLord
Always keep that little bit of hope in your heart that the human condition can be better.
 
@TravisJ more like. I HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO DO THIS AND ITS SCARY
 
lol
 
and there's 2 pages of errors, the documentation is shit, and the app I need to diagnose the app that crashed crashed
 
hey
@TravisJ been there actually... few years ago if I was looking for an idea of programming project, I checked and decided to cancel it if it already existed...
Now I just try to do it on my own way~
 
@hey There will almost always be competition. That is what makes it fun :P
 
8:03 AM
competition dosen't have to be hostile though
 
@JourneymanGeek Sounds like an XCode project I worked on once. #neveragain
No, it doesn't have to be hostile.
 
The same issue like when your debugger crashed when trying to debug a crashing program
 
That feeling when someone tells you they turned their windows 10 machine off while it was updating.
 
@hey I actually have rep there
 
8:29 AM
@user5389107 Run your debugger under the debugger.
 
hey
Im fixin mah bug in mah debugger
 
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