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hey
1:43 AM
Fast Morning
 
So in cleaning up old hdd tagged questions I found this one nice question that really cares about rotating head disks and solid state disks. stackoverflow.com/questions/38238323/…
I can toss more tags on it but they aren't really going to help much more.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:51 AM
Is it possible to block a question to be posted if it contains certain abusive words? It reduces spam.
 
hey
No, because abusive words (yes, even the F-word) don't always make the post abusive.
 
5:11 AM
@SmokeDetector Still needs 1 (?) more flag
 
5:46 AM
12 messages moved to Chimney
I've configured forwarding email from root to my own e-mail address. It doesn't work. I know because it just send me an e-mail that it couldn't send an email. Yes, on the same address.
I obviously aren't equipped to do any *nix system administration.
The failure email has the original e-mail attached. I have what I want. The system "works".
 
@rene or maybe it never got sent.
maybe its just trying to drive you mad
MAD I TELL YOU
@NogShine @hey though there's a rule against profanity.
But eh, we might get affected by the scuntrope effect
Better to have humans decide ;)
 
6:06 AM
@JourneymanGeek I take that as an answer ...
 
(or the method it uses to check is faulty?)
 
6:33 AM
chess can be such a waste of time
that is all.
 
hey
Especially correspondence chess by postal
 
Never tried correspondence chess, I feel like that would be even worse!
Do you play on 3 boards at once to try to analyze future positions by playing them out?
I feel like the ease of using assistance with correspondence would be rather high
 
6:47 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog hm?
 
7:02 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted username: How to connect to another computer through the Internet using ssh? by Prasanta Shee on askubuntu.com
 
Feeds are not getting updated unless forced on Android App
 
So the Android App is being forced fed?
 
hey
It's a feature called "caching" ;)
 
7:33 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: How to trim/cut clips with VLC by Marks on superuser.com
 
@TravisJ It's fun!
I'm not so great at it, though - better at live.
 
8:01 AM
@Discretelizard yeah... and now wonder what... It seems that he arbitration clause isn't even "live" yet. Little problem: the only proof of that right now is Tim post here - the site hasn't been updated yet to acknowledge this.
 
hey
8:27 AM
reminded me of DMCA attack on Anime.SE...
 
 
3 hours later…
11:56 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (batch report: post 2 out of 3): Problems restoring wallet by Polaris001 on bitcoin.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (batch report: post 3 out of 3): Forgotten wallet password (bitcoin-qt) by Polaris001 on bitcoin.SE
 
12:45 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog We'd run a query to find the email to locate the account, then get the account's confirmed email (if there is one) to send a response, or we'd just use the email supplied if there's no confirmed email. In cases where we could not correlate the sender of a letter to the account, we'd just return the letter with a note that we couldn't fulfill the request due to lacking info. Legally, we always have to accept snail mail correspondence for this, but when the new terms go live I think we're placing emphasis on just doing it electronically to save potential hassle. — Tim Post ♦ 2 mins ago
Two key takeaways: 1. they'll always continue to accept traditional mail, even though electronic will be preferred. 2. it's not possible for users who don't have accounts to opt out.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog We'd run a query to find the email to locate the account, then get the account's confirmed email (if there is one) to send a response, or we'd just use the email supplied if there's no confirmed email. In cases where we could not correlate the sender of a letter to the account, we'd just keep the letter on file. Legally, we always have to accept snail mail correspondence for this, but when the new terms go live I think we're placing emphasis on just doing it electronically to save potential hassle. — Tim Post ♦ 7 mins ago
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in answer, link at end of answer: Can I use my running shoes' seventh eyelets to fix heel slipping? by Yvette Alexander on fitness.SE
 
1:07 PM
@Shog9 So, should I propose meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309829/… as a feature request?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog you can't unfortunately because of
 
@Mgetz Why is that?
 
They have to be able to delete their accounts, it's very clear in the requirements
 
They're still able to delete their accounts, they'll just have to wait 24 hours like everyone else
The request here is to disallow immediate self-deletion in one specific case
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Legally that's questionable because it's an artificial delay which isn't allowed. You're allowed to have a delay due to people, not machines.
If you can delete immediately and have that already available you can't change that for someone because you want to.
IANAL so don't take this as gospel but I would err on the side of safety when it comes to GDPR
 
1:13 PM
@Mgetz You're hinging an awful lot on "without undue delay" in the legislation there
I think (Also not a lawyer so take this with a dried dead sea worth of salt) that SE can justify the 24 hour wait period as necessary for users to absorb the gravity of the request after they're informed on it.
 
@user5389107 because it's subjective and generally European regulators have taken the strictest view.
@user5389107 I think a lawyer could argue that counts as 'undue' delay without much work
 
For manual deletions like these, a staff member has to hit the button iirc
24 hours sounds reasonable for that
 
@user5389107 that is allowed
 
Plus, if a user has high rep, they need extra time to consider whether the votes should be preserved
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog again... right to be forgotten impacts here and I suspect a lawyer could include votes
it's actually worse than you think, because the way the law works it has to be as if the user never existed in the system
so you can't even notify people that "user was removed"
you just have to remove all impact that user ever had silently
 
hey
1:19 PM
(disappearing existence... that's kind of... scary...)
 
@hey but it extends beyond just the visible in the site.. if you can identify the user in logs that has to be excised too (from the log, not the whole log). It literally has to be as if the user never interacted with your system. (unless they did something you are legally required to have a record of)
Right to be forgotten is a maaaajor pain in the arse
 
The U.S. has no mandatory data retention law, so they can't claim they "U.S. law so-and-so requires we keep this information"
@Mgetz If someone wants to exercise that right rather than opt for a normal deletion, they can contact SE
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog We actually have a few laws that are applicable but I don't think any conflict enough unless the person is away of an ongoing investigation.
 
hey
Yeah, I mean... one day you interact with someone, the other day they is gone without trace. Then you wonder, "did I really interact with this user, or was I just dreaming?"
 
But then they have to check and prevent requests from non-EU users
 
1:23 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog IANAL but that may not be sufficient if you have regular deletion available
 
Actually, the U.S. state of California has a similar law for minor users
(under 18 years old)
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog pretty sure there is something in US Federal law too
 
@Mgetz If I may ask, where are you from?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Colorado
it's in my profile
That said my employer has made training on GDPR extremely mandatory. I've taken three different ones thus far.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog just curious why does it matter?
 
@Mgetz Interesting
My company is in the denial stage of grief about it :p
 
1:30 PM
@Mgetz I'm an inquisitive hedgehog
 
@user5389107 I work for a multi-national that shall remain nameless for my own protection
@user5389107 bad place to be on 17 May... when GDPR goes into effect on 25 May
 
@Mgetz Tell that to our data protection officer (hint: it's me :/)
 
@user5389107 CYA and get legal to back you
 
We don't have legal ... or HR
 
Right now unless you're under active investigation GDPR should be the highest priority of any company that does anything in Europe... or even talks to people in Europe
@user5389107 Consider retaining council or hiring a GDPR consultant from a reputable firm
20Million Euros or 4% of global turnover is not something to ignore
 
1:37 PM
@Mgetz Our total GDPR compliance budget is 0$ and 5-10% of my time at work
 
GDPR is going to destroy a few companies before people get it
@user5389107 US or Europe based?
 
europe based
our saving grace is we don't handle a lot of personal data
 
Then I suggest you personally retain a lawyer and find new employment
 
hey
not sure if mentioning a company's policy is suitable on this chat room... it might bite... just sayin'
 
@user5389107 it doesn't matter any data your sales people have is subject to GDPR
 
1:38 PM
@Mgetz Yeah I know
It's basicly just personal customer contacts, employee data and applicant's data for application
 
@user5389107 you might be able to get away with posting a notice requiring a certified mail notice
and then just doing it manually
 
That's what we're planning right now
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Install Adobe Acrobat XI with wine by mircea273 on askubuntu.com
 
!!/watch www.playonlinux\.com
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#2173 for you.
 
1:44 PM
!!/watch playonlinux\.com
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#2174 for you.
 
@PrincessCelestia Hello, Omega
 
user359686
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog How can I //help?
 
@PrincessLuna I imagine Rouge must be somewhere nearby
 
//shrug
 
user359686
1:47 PM
@PrincessLuna Maybe you should consider looking up the manual
 
@Mgetz It's been ... hectic
 
user359686
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I got the "promotion" a couple of weeks ago
 
@SmokeDetector @PrincessLuna Please decline if you can
 
And by that I mean I was the last one to say no
 
1:48 PM
@user5389107 did it come with a pay increase at least?
 
lol no
well ish
planned pay increase later in the year
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Can't. Needs closing. Poke someone with pull access (tripleee just closed it though)
 
My employer is generally pretty cheap
as in software developers don't make a lot over minimum wage
I'm already in the upper level of earnings for my role there
 
@user5389107 I've never understood why there is such a pay disparity between software engineers in the US and the EU
 
@Mgetz Idk, offerings for positions in my area start at 9 eur/hr and go to like 25 eur/hr for senior software devs
I suspect this is one of the reasons the industry likes to complain about a lack of software devs
 
1:56 PM
@user5389107 Here they complain because it allows them to use immigration escapes to keep wages down
@user5389107 that said is the lower wage made up by a lower cost of living?
 
@Mgetz oh yeah
My rent is 220 eur/mo including internet and utilities
it's gone down recently thankfully
 
@user5389107 that's nice at least, my rent is pushing 1350US/mo and I'm not even in a primary market
 
o_O
 
in SF which is a primary market rents can be as high as 5000/mo
ditto NY
and that's not including internet or utilities
or healthcare
 
I know about the insanity of SF
Healthcare is like 15% of my salary flat
 
2:05 PM
@user5389107 via taxes or paid?
 
@Mgetz taxes
It covers everything though with no deductible or copay
also includes dental and vision and mental health care
 
@user5389107 yeah... that's not included base with mine
 
2:39 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no. Not going to close a . If you want, ask a diamond to remove that tag first.
(or others might disagree with me and close anyway, meh.)
And if there are two same faq entries, they should be merged.
 
@ShadowWizard The proposed target is often used as a dupe target for people complaining about their post being closed.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, toxic answer detected: How does VIP service work at the Managua Airport? by Robert on travel.SE
 
3:00 PM
What is the appropriate media to complain about a moderator's actions?
 
@SterlingArcher meta?
contact us?
both
 
hey
I hope it's not SO...
I'm afraid it's SO...
 
3:16 PM
@SterlingArcher contact us
Historically meta's a bad idea, just ends up in more drama and pain for everyone involved
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: How to change AliExpress product page to English by aliexpresswiki on webapps.SE
 
@SterlingArcher Twitter
 
@Shog9 he asked "appropriate", not "efficient".
 
Won't accomplish anything, but man is it perfect for ineffectual complaining
 
I wouldn't really call it ineffectual lol
 
3:18 PM
;p
 
It certainly drained the JS room
 
@SterlingArcher from a mod's point of view?
If I'm in a good mood, I won't engage
If i'm in a mad mood? I'll totally pick apart your post, bit by bit.
and there will be drama.
Drama bad :(
 
@Shog9 really? I remember a case of two chat bans which, let's just say, would have never happened, if it wasn't for twitter and its power of bringing things into the spotlight. Good or bad.
 
Better to have our lovely professional CMs help solve the issue peacefully
@ShadowWizard you guys did poke your hands into the bees nest....
 
@ShadowWizard if you have thousands of followers, any platform is effective
 
3:20 PM
Mmm not from me, I don't tend to get angry when debating
 
I get hungry, and when I'm hungry I'm hangry, but it's unrelated to the debate.
I just need a sandwich
 
@JourneymanGeek of course, never denied it... :)
 
@SterlingArcher ehh. Trust me here. :)
Unless you're pissed off at me
 
OTOH, that kid who's been trying to get me fired by complaining on Twitter hasn't gotten anywhere.
 
then go ahead. make my day. Well in another 8 hours.
 
3:21 PM
I'm not really sure where this is coming from @JourneymanGeek
 
(gotta nap first)
 
You ok?
 
lol
I need to go to bed
 
hey
This is weird. If that's the case, then I'm more worried about it. Hopefully not.
 
Anyway! Contact Us Link! Not twitter (even if shog says so, or meta.)
night!
 
hey
3:22 PM
@JourneymanGeek no night shift today!
 
no. day shift. Then covering night on sat.
 
Have a good sleep, and no it's not about you (wasn't even aware you're a mod tbh)
 
hey
oh, well, night! have a deserved rest!
 
@Shog9 Haven't heard about that
Doesn't surprise me :p People can be really awful
Everyone with sufficient activity on twitter has haters
 
@Shog9 You mean he hasn't applied to do your job better than you and be a CM?
 
hey
3:34 PM
@hey ... alright, blame timezone
 
@ArtOfCode that would require effort
 
Are you comfortable sharing a link?
I kind of want to read that for the entertainment value of seeing someone flail and complain with no effect
I mean twitter is full of those but this sounds especially hilarious
 
@user5389107 oh, this is nothing to do with Twitter. Just someone I suspended who wanted a place for some ineffectual complaining.
 
@Shog9 sounds like you need a promotion to VP of community management
 
Ahh
So not even novel
 
3:37 PM
Nope
 
1.5/10 for effort, I guess
 
hey
nah, -1/13 for effort...
alright, time to sleep too...
 
Wow twitter is a grim place
 
I mean you can't really expect a pool of incredible knowledge from a platform designed to blast short opinions out (potentially anonymously too)
 
The bots are the best people on Twitter
 
hey
3:42 PM
Twitter, a free public platform to complain in 140 280 characters.
 
RIP Tay
 
I just saw the mini feud with evan
he seems to enjoy pushing people's buttons
 
They call it Truck Stop Seeds. Somebody slips it into a kid's drink, next day he wakes up at a tiki bar covered in sour milk.
Best thing.
 
Don't you just love it when management likes to argue for over 2 hours in a meeting about the exact layout of a delivery note template?
 
@Shog9 relevantly hilarious (John Mulaney)
 
3:47 PM
yeah... flagging a diamond's message is pretty ineffectual
 
We just suspended Shog9 for 30 minutes, sorry.
 
It generally helps if the flag is valid :)
 
The conundrum now. Would y'all actually validate a valid chat flag on an employee message?
Methinks quietly deleting the post and talking to them in private would be more effective
 
if it was a valid flag, yes
 
Just click valid, apologize later.
 
3:48 PM
gets the message deleted, even if it does nothing about its author
 
@SterlingArcher that's excellent
 
@AdamLear I cry everytime I hear the phrase "scratchy lotteries" now
@rene good lord
 
@user5389107 I have validated flags on my chat account, so...
 
@SterlingArcher Works for the JS room ;)
 
@Shog9 Can you ban yourself?
 
3:54 PM
One from within an employee room no less
@user5389107 nope
 
Can't mods chat anyway despite a chat suspension?
 
Not in chat
 
huh
 
@Undo was able to
 
I guess I could propagate a main-site suspension? Not sure.
 
3:54 PM
New ways to get a full-data-dump are being explored ...
 
@rene I semi-quit the JS room :(
 
@Shog9 time for science? :D
 
@SterlingArcher I saw some drama, yes. Sorry to hear.
 
@rene I wonder if GDPR is going to open up a lot of data science (opt in of course) because of the data dump stuff
 
@SterlingArcher too bad we can only see 7 days of traffic stats
 
3:56 PM
That would be interesting. There was definitely a spike of users, but the last several days has been very slow from the regular's side
 
4:41 PM
rude Smokey ...
 
5:21 PM
sd tpu-
 
5:33 PM
sd tpu-
 
@TimPost Would you mind slapping a status tag on this please?
 
Ugg... so many people who confuse PII with PI and how that interacts with Right to be forgotten
 
5:53 PM
including me
 
@JohnDvorak PII what people can use to stalk you personally and steal your identity. PI the artifacts you've left behind that don't fit into PII
there is a fuzzy line
tbh it's a question "if a bad person gets this how much damage can they do"
it's why most Right to Be Forgotten recommendations basically end up with "As if they never existed in your system at all"
 
6:09 PM
Does a suspended user have the right to be forgotten?
 
@Mgetz "Any information that can be used to identify or can be directly correlated to an individual"
 
@JohnDvorak yes
anyone who has interacted with the system does
 
So much room for abuse
Can I ask my country to forget that I'm in prison, then ask for an asylum and then citizenship?
 
Seems reasonable
 
Not how this works
right to be forgotten does not apply to information required to be kept for recordkeeping purposes by law
 
6:15 PM
A clean or fresh start is when a user stops using an old account in order to start fresh with a new account. The two most common reasons for wanting a clean start are recognizing past mistakes, and avoiding harassment. The old account must be clearly discontinued, and the new account must avoid editing patterns or behaviors that would allow other users to recognize and identify the account. It is expected that the new account will be a true "fresh start", will edit in new areas and avoid old disputes, and will follow community norms of behavior. A genuine clean start is not considered improper...
 
Like someone can't ask to be forgotten from invoices for instance
 
@JohnDvorak Right to be forgotten does not extend to current legal matters. After you get released and complete your parole on the other hand you can ask private entities to remove references to your crime
 
Ah, OK. But it still breaks the "must have not been suspended in the last year", doesn't it?
 
user359686
@JohnDvorak Something bad happened while processing. Do //logs to see the logs
 
//help
 
user359686
6:17 PM
###################### Help ######################

==================== Commands
//about            | Let me tell you a little about myself...
//alive            | Used to check if the bot is working
//appul            | Apples.
//ban              | Bans a user from using the bot. Only usable by hardcoded bot admins
//ban-room         | Blacklists a room
//blame            | No description was supplied for this command
//cat              | Sends a random cat picture in chat
//declare          | Changes a commands status. Only commands available on the site can be edited
 
user359686
@JohnDvorak Something bad happened while processing. Do //logs to see the logs
 
//about
... why is she talking to me?
 
//github
 
user359686
@ArtOfCode Here you go: github.com/LunarWatcher/NN-chatbot
 
user359686
6:20 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog No logs. All good! :D
 
Oh, that's cool
 
//cat
I am catless
 
6:36 PM
Sorry, I'm working on adding a new feature that's partially broken it
 
@πάνταῥεῖ halp I need a nice way of gently letting the op know their question is too broad
 
Forgot initializing the list in the map in the map (val mappedUsers: MutableMap<String, MutableMap<Long, MutableList<Long>>>)
 
@Mgetz Flagging so isn't sufficient?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ fair enough
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog got rebooted which cleared the logs. Added a try-catch to avoid the KNPE that triggered the problem
 
6:39 PM
I'm more and more tending not to comment at all, but just use the mechanics as provided by the engine. Mentioned that earlier several times.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ ah makes sense
 
Sure!
Dupe proposals might still be a target to tackle better though.
 
7:31 PM
I'm gone for a couple of days and I see people have started to change identities and leave the site?
I can't leave you guys alone, can I?
 
You're the glue that holds us together
 
Compliment ... or just sad? Myeah, that's sad.
 
Not like... Epoxy. More like Elmer's School Glue ("now with 20% more bull's skull"). But glue all the same.
 
What about rubber cement...
 
I am rubber, you are glue...
 
7:37 PM
Whatever you do, don't sniff me. There is no high if you do, only lows.
 
@Bart Some things went completely wrong, yes. I'm not feeling 100% innocent regarding this :-(
 
That's unfortunate @πάνταῥεῖ :(
 
Of course it is :(
 
Sniffing bart sounds intense
in all the wrong ways
 
Wasn't one of Bart (Simpson's) lines "Smell ya later, dudes!"?
 
7:44 PM
We should all just count our blessings that Bart isn't the sort of glue that you activate by licking.
 
Including Bart...
 
@Shog9 duck tape?
 
don't lick ducks either
 
That concludes today's episode of life lessons with Shog. We'll be back tomorrow when we'll discuss whether or not to hug electric eels.
 
but duck confit is so tasty
 
7:52 PM
:O QUACK???
 
... Isn't this supposed to be the Chicken room? Why are we talking about ducks?
 
@Catija because the secret of the ducks is escaping
 
No. TelKitty has gone unfortunately :-/
 
I just posted chickens myself a few days ago...
 
@Catija I know
 
7:56 PM
I miss telkitty a bit
you could always count on random pictures to ease tension
 
@Shog9 But you have to admit there was a lotta duct tape used over all the years.
@user5389107 I believe I mentioned that, yes.
 
I'm partial to bailing twine as a fix-all.
 
@Shog9 so Jeff was a fan of old school cable lacing?
 
cable lacing?
 
7:59 PM
Jeff is all about gamification, everything :-P
Just watch his twitter account.
 
oh, it's like a butchers' knot, but for cables. Huh, never ran into it before.
 
@Shog9 don't tell me how to handle wild ducks :(
Dream smasher
 
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