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12:02 AM
Either SE sites are supposed to be deep and cover even basics of a topic, or they are only supposed to cover complex, never-addressed questions. It's one thing to require research on a site that is years old and has thousands of questions... but when you're trying to flesh out the depth, you need to be OK with some un-(or under-)researched questions.
 
@Catija I find that question pretty interesting for a few reasons, but primarily because IME it has a pretty strong cultural and generational aspect.
 
@Catija I've always thought of SE questions for really tough problems, or polish
 
Secondary to that, the topic itself touches on a few other areas - gift-giving, guest etiquette - that also have strong cultural and generational components.
I don't see any good answers, but man... I'd love to read one if it managed to attract one.
 
@Shog9 This is actually why I'm sort of disappointed that IPS made it to site status before etiquette... I think the latter would be more objective and there are more resources to actually back up an answer.
 
@Catija presumably its broader, and more 'interesting'
 
12:09 AM
@Catija I think etiquette is largely a subset of IPS
All too neglected ATM, but... Probably because it requires expertise.
It takes a while for scholars to emerge
 
It's complicated because a lot of etiquette is a question about how a single person should behave, which can risk it looking less like an IPS issue. Also, without a lot of etiquette questions, we're not going to attract "experts" in that subject. I mean, I can quote "As long as ships sail out to sea, I'll spoon my soup away from me" all day... but does anyone really care whether I spoon my soup away from my body?
 
0_0
@Catija kinda sounds like how so many indian cultural traditions seemed to exist cause... they rhyme.
 
I went to "Miss Manners"... we learned about which utensil to use, how to eat soup, how to answer the phone, how to serve and take away plates... all sorts of fun stuff...
 
12:30 AM
@Catija that's the "how" of etiquette though. The why is what makes it an interpersonal matter... And gives it purpose.
You aren't taught to answer the phone with a certain style for your own benefit, but for the mutual benefits it offers for both yourself and the caller. Potentially even for the benefit of others in your household. These things are born out of pervasive interpersonal problems and live and die based on their continued presence.
As a child, you're expected to show respect, defer to your elders while maintaining your own safety and avoiding any interactions that would expose your household to risk; as an inherently vulnerable point in the home's hierarchy, the etiquette that applies to you seeks to both shield you and those around you while still allowing you some agency.
As an adult, the etiquette serves a different set of purposes
 
Even something as commonplace as answering the phone is in flux, though... how does one dictate the etiquette of answering a personal cell phone in relation to a shared house phone? Most people under 30-40 probably don't even have a house phone any more. Even at work, I often say "Hi, {name}, what can I do for you?" because the caller ID tells me who's on the other line.
Mostly because I find it annoying to hear them say "It's {name}" as if I can't see who's calling on the phone.
Doesn't help that I really don't like talking on the phone...
 
This is where having a site that doesn't rely entirely on 30 year old guides would help... As with your email question
Otoh, my personal preference does not a rule of etiquette make
 
12:46 AM
Nor does mine... my preference, at work, anyway (and probably oddly), is actually to go pop by their office...
One of the guys I interact with a lot is funny... he makes a point of actually having a greeting before jumping into "work" ... Which is nice. I think it's actually a really good way of forming a relationship with the person you're interacting with rather than just flat out asking what you want... you see them as a person, not just a fountain of wisdom.
... but SE is the opposite. We're all business; no greetings, no sign-offs.
 
1:05 AM
We just ... poof... ghost and we're out.
 
1:45 AM
morni... spam!!
 
user315433
Sounds like an interpersonal problem.
 
wondering the meaning of "slay workers"...
 
user315433
As an extra twist, the husband is a mafia boss.
 
user315433
... who finds himself attracted to one of his hatchet men.
 
user202362
lost ... slay ...
 
user202362
2:05 AM
so the chicken eloped with fox and they lived happily ever after in the forest
 
2:28 AM
@Telkitty What does the fox say?
anyway... done catching the conversation while I was asleep, apparently about IPS again...
 
user202362
2:40 AM
 
4:13 AM
I'd take a stand blame
 
 
3 hours later…
7:40 AM
 
user202362
road well maintained
 
8:12 AM
Signs of the new new new and bad top bar: edit pending for 11 hours on MSE. meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/55241
The review icon is just a joke now.
Just remove it, and let those who want to review browse manually to the review page.
Nov 14 at 10:07, by Shadow Wizard
@AndrewT. -1 no animation
I have an idea.... we should find a name to our devoted Anonymous Editor. I suggest "Ano".
 
@ShadowWizard anongoodnurse
 
@AndrewT. already exists
 
8:46 AM
14 messages moved to Chimney
 
Is the stackoverflow.com/questions tool bar rollback to the old one?
 
27
Q: Retiring New Navigation (beta) in preparation for Navigation 3.0

Jon Ericson Summary: New Navigation has been removed so we can build similar functionality (plus other improvements) for everyone. I'll be summarizing the feedback below to incorporate into the replacement design. (I'll also post the summary as an answer.) A primary duty of a Q&A system is matching ques...

 
@AndrewT. huh, about time. So now there will be new new navigation for three more years. Awesome.
(yes, I don't have much faith they will really come with something any time soon... or not soon.)
 
9:07 AM
Thanks for reminding added the link — Vartika Sharma 21 secs ago
... speechless
 
@Bart pepernoten?
 
9:19 AM
okay I will take care of this in future. — Vartika Sharma 39 secs ago
I'm afraid there's no future for you...
 
user202362
 
9:34 AM
@AndrewT. Hoooo nooo.. I've migrated all my bookmark to Tab.. And It's gone.. I wish I were young again so I could adapt.
 
It's a bit unfortunate that this feature was in limbo for years, and then with only two week's notice retired.
 
How many sunsets did we see in 2017?
 
9:48 AM
@Stijn they reckoned with the experience of the new top bar that a quick and short notice was the best to prevent a 6 to 8 week outcry of disgruntled users posting on Meta U mov cheese?
 
hey... cheeseburger is a serious business...
 
you may be on to something
 
:D
@AndrewT. I hope it matches a bit with the number of sunrises ...
 
@AndrewT. zero
 
10:12 AM
@AndrewT. that wasn't really "sunsetting the new nav" since it was never launched to begin with.
It was only in the very initial phase.
 
well... okay, let's sunsetting the sunset then...
 
10:54 AM
for a moment I thought @Bart asked a HNQ ... and went into music ...
 
hehe
8-bit Bart
 
user202362
64-bit Bart
 
11:14 AM
All that glitters is not gold, and all that looks like glasses is not @Bart.
@rene in case of the new dead nav, it's not moving the cheese, it's eating it.
 
11:34 AM
Hey @AdamLear do you think this is possible to help out our Chinese users?
Sounds like it'd be a good step forward if Stack Overflow started hosting the JS libraries on their own sstatic.net CDN? — Stijn 1 hour ago
 
@Stijn it was suggested long ago already, many times.
 
That has been suggested before and has always been declined. I think it was a cost/benefit decision.
 
oh. And declined, I guess?
that's too bad :(
 
Sure.
Dunno why, doubt Adam or any other dev knows.
Only management knows.
(and they're not around here in chat.)
 
IIRC Nick didn't want it, something with Fastly and/or their own network capacity
 
11:44 AM
Well, considering the horrible cache synchronization (e.g. adding new site icon cause lots of people to get stale resources), it's good they don't host JS files there.
It will cause havoc on every little change.
Anyway.... I was called many nicknames over the years... but first time I'm being called "living database".... :D
@ShadowWizard You must have been the de facto living database of MSE. — iDebug 12 mins ago
 
Too much honor ...
 
lol
setting primary key
 
steals key
commit
 
dropping all tables
 
Oh, that is rather drastic
 
12:26 PM
@ShadowWizard you are late ...
 
user202362
WhatsApp number 9530069900.
 
user202362
can spam back
 
@rene umm.. no. It wasn't deleted or reported yet.
(no idea why)
I got a tip in Den from @Narusan
 
@ShadowWizard Thanks, all gone
 
12:28 PM
@ShadowWizard you can be a living database of MSE, but are you a living database of the whole SE news!?
 
@rene oh. So nobody today on Charcoal? Usually spam posts are nuked minutes after being reported.
@AndrewT. nope :D
 
@ShadowWizard it was a bit slow this morning I guess
 
@ShadowWizard but still better than me, just a pleb :/
 
@AndrewT. no worry Chimney will get all of those
 
16 messages moved to Chimney
;)
 
12:34 PM
 
1:09 PM
sd k
Well, if such a useless troll could spell cache properly then it would be suspicious.
 
1:25 PM
@AndrewT. well it was reported many times before, it's not spam.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:31 PM
There are a lot of issues with WP, but clearing the Edge cache is not one of them.
Open Edge, click the three dots in the bottom right corner, and click 'Settings'. The second item in this panel says 'Clear browsing data'. Click the button below it. — Stijn 38 secs ago
 
@Stijn meh, I rather rant ...
As everybody probably knows I'm not a big fan of the sunsetting of Nav 2.0 but was it intended to remove it from main while leaving it on for Meta? /cc @JonEricson
The meta post doesn't seem to exclude meta from the sunsetting, while it is still working there.
Despite that it is December 5th now.
Maybe it is scheduled to leave with Sinterklaas
 
2:47 PM
Meta Grace Period
 
Sounds plausible
 
hm. windowsphone.se... I wonder what happens when the platform finally dies
 
I heard people still use Netscape Navigator...
 
on OS/2
58
A: Why can't old PCs view modern sites?

Journeyman GeekSimply, a lot of modern HTML features we take for granted did not exist back in those days. There are attempts to build 'modern' browsers for older OSes - classilla, for example. You can easily load up linux onto a suitable PII or PIII system and still be able to handle a basic modern webpage. ...

 
3:04 PM
@JourneymanGeek it is dead, officially. What you're seeing is postmortem spasm.
 
@Stijn which is kinda interesting
since I don't think that happens often
 
3:16 PM
ok, that was a little strange
The twitter account for a company that I've never heard of added me. Seems to do remote job ads, so I guess I can sniff out the market there but ...
first time that's happened ;p
 
4:05 PM
@Stijn which makes them on-topic on Health.se ...
 
If it's anything like the phone Beret Guy has, it will be spectacular
 
user315433
He has an iPhone, though.
 
user315433
 
user315433
iPhone vs Android in xkcd comics: what was mentioned more often? I don't remember WP mentioned once.
 
This is what Google thinks is the sole instance of XKCD mentioning the Windows phone:
 
user315433
4:24 PM
My theory: Randall was an early Android adopter (from G1) but eventually switched to iPhone, somewhere between 1373 and 1427. Android: 596, 662, 1373. iOS: 1427, 1815.
 
user315433
And the most recent one about iOS is 1913
 
user315433
Current xkcd numbers correspond to 20th century years; at 1924 now. Number 2018 will be in the second half of 2018.
 
It's been so long since I pinged @Sha so I think I should just ping @Sha and tell him it was a random ping
 
@Stijn Somewhere in the back of my head used to know why we don't do it (contrary to @ShadowWizard's belief, it's engineering that makes these decisions, not management). I asked around and looks like last time it came down to "Google has better caching due to the number of apps using the js libs" and "hosting it ourselves would be $$$, especially considering the bad crawlers we see from Chinese IPs".
The former point might not hold as true now since we're pretty out of date on jQuery.
 
Thanks for finding out. I'd expect the cost of self-hosting those libs to be insignificant compared to the total traffic of the network, but I don't know a whole lot about CDNs to be honest.
 
4:37 PM
bu..but how about choosing another CDN for chinese IP range?
 
Yeah, I'm not sure what the numbers involved would be. Last discussion on this was at least a year ago.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:01 PM
@Stijn I first heard of the plan - internally - Nov 7th. So roughly 2 weeks to figure out how to announce and then 2 weeks more to actually shut it down. The plan is to build a replacement quickly as well. Let's hope that happens.
these long multi-month plans haven't exactly panned out very well, so... Maybe this will? Donno.
 
user315433
6:14 PM
Nav 2 was in development for how many months?
 
user315433
 
user315433
Averaging out the seasons, the traffic to Mathematics still grows linearly, going back to Spring 2012 or so.
 
user315433
Other largest sites either flattened out or appear to be over the hill, like SU.
 
user315433
 
user315433
Can't blame this on spammers, the decline began earlier. Perhaps reflecting the general decline of desktop computers.
 
6:46 PM
That was a 2 second window to get my close vote and comment in ...
 
user315433
 
user315433
Looks good, except for the "indent 4 spaces" part, which is kind of embarrassing.
 
@CrazyIvan This would have been easier with code fences. If we don't end up with more properly formatted code, I might drop that parenthetical.
 
7:07 PM
@JonEricson we're getting those when Channels is released, aren't we?
 
@Stijn Not that I know of. I mean, it would be great, but that's probably low on the list. (Now that I've answered, I wonder if you meant to be sarcastic. ;-)
 
Oh, I thought the devs were implementing CommonMark for Channels, and it'd come to the main site too.
Was it for another feature?
Or maybe I'm mixing things up with Docs
 
@Stijn Oh. Yes, Docs had CommonMark and I hope we'll be able to bring that to Q&A eventually. Turns out it's not as easy as flipping a switch. :-( But I do think there'll be more pressure for table support and code fencing as people shift from whatever they are using now to Channels.
 
user315433
8:03 PM
I mean, actually going over every line of a sizeable codeblock and adding 4 spaces is not something I would recommend in practice. Easy to say, hard to do correctly.
 
Do you mean that the dev team will be more inclined to provide a quality product now that they get money out of it? That would be nice.
 
Money is a bad motivator
 
perhaps, but setting off fireworks near the StackExchange headquarters is illegal
 
user315433
Besides, most of the dev team are not there.
 
oh, right. They got Trumped.
 
8:10 PM
What's up @JohnDvorak are you in a bad mood?
 
Nah, just bad at jokes
 
Yeah, you championed that
 
user315433
8:40 PM
> Brett White
Community Growth Specialist (Former)
 
user315433
I don't even remember.
 
user315433
4
Q: Who is Brett White?

Brett WhiteIf you also frequent Gaming.SE, then you are probably already familiar with me. If not, you can check out this post and also forge ahead with your reading eyes. My name is Brett and I'm a member of CHAOS, Stack Exchange's new community evangelism and outreach team. Our main goal is to make the ...

 
user315433
9:21 PM
@hichris123 Are you done with college applications by now?
 
user315433
Oh hey also I hate college and it really sucks and I think this has something to do with it. I guess you're right. I'm not well diciplined in problem solving. I dropped 2 classes and I'm stressed the hell out about staying in. But maybe I will stay in college and just get through it. Yea you're right when you say that my education probably sucked. I also suck at learning and paying attention. — pebble225 1 hour ago
 
10:42 PM
So... thoughts... meta.stackexchange.com/questions/176683/… is a duplicate... but the answers on this question are from staff and are much better than the primary. Anyone with a gold discussion badge want to help reverse the duplicate?
 
user202362
there are about 16 bill gates and 19 steve jobs on stackoverflow
 
So... you're saying there a lot of very unoriginal people on SO? :P
 
user202362
bill and steve are fairly common given names
 
user202362
there are 1026 pages of users when you search for 'David'
 
probably more with "mike" or "michael".
 

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