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12:38 AM
@CrazyIvan hats for things they don't want people to do isn't/shouldn't happen
1 hour later…
1:43 AM
mor ning
2:05 AM
So... I have a question...
I was trying to figure out one of the advent calendar days and I needed to find the biggest number in a list of numbers... so I found this question on SO:
Q: Python - Find the greatest number in a list of numbers

Chris FosterIs there any easy way or function to determine the greatest number in a python list? I could just code it, as I only have three numbers, however it would make the code a lot less redundant if I could tell the greatest with a built in function or something.

But Andy said that the syntax was wrong in the accepted answer in the newer version of Python...
So, should the answer be edited or should the tag on the question be edited to be specific to Python 2.x?
@Catija works for me in py3
other than print parends ofc
He said it has to be print(max(foo))?
that's not worth editing
print is just changed in py2 to py3, it's a pretty small detail
2:08 AM
the important part of that answer is the max function, which still exists/works
Python 2 is still alive and kicking
Given the year when the answer was posted, it's certainly Py2
print vs print() is pretty simple of a change
it even has a custom error message
o gawd, the minus-scoring answer is... questionable
@Riker Why not? I'm an utter novice and I wouldn't have known that was the case... shouldn't the answer actually say both options then?
2:15 AM
not really, that's not the point of the question...
Some buildings are still run by a Commodore 64, multiple nuclear power plants are run by PDP-6s, the spaceship that sent human to the moon had approximately 64Kbyte of memory and operated at 0.043MHz.
instead, I'd edit and remove the reference to print at all and instead store it on a variable
it's not about how new a technology is, it's what it is capable of doing
@Catija no :p
2:17 AM
? I don't understand.
(am I lagging? I feel like a ghost)
@Catija the question does not ask about print/print()
that is probably the most well known difference between python 2 and python 3 of every single change made
thinking more on it, yeah, I guess it could probably be edited to change "print" to "print()", it's not necessary
problem solved :P
2:27 AM
@ArtOfCode very nice solution thank you :p
11 mins ago, by Andrew T.
instead, I'd edit and remove the reference to print at all and instead store it on a variable
I couldn't upvote something that was... wrong. I'm glad that you know it's wrong but I didn't.
1 hour later…
3:59 AM
@SmokeDetector astronomical enhancement
2 hours later…
5:48 AM
New meaning of “autobiographer” badge
Oh... autobiographer
6:08 AM
@alexolut :(
@alexolut We're very much aware of that, and my feelings towards the perpertrators are "ugh. DIE IN A FIRE"
how to make it manualbiographer? :(
@AndrewT. well some of the CMs have thrown around ideas to solve it
but 6-8 weeks?
@JourneymanGeek ruSO is also affected. Thinking to change my insurance company :-D
@alexolut not as badly ;p
@AndrewT. at first, you need a car with manual transmission
6:18 AM
manualbiographer: a new mod review queue for reviewing user profile
reviewing isn't enough
I mean, we can find them
there's no real 'easy' way to destroy these 'en mass'
and if we did, it would still be a VERY dangerous tool
ugh, I forgot... not only "about me", but even easy username spam...
well I'm of the opinion this is kind of their reaction to realising post spam gets nuked fast
1 hour later…
@JourneymanGeek cc @rene @TravisJ @Bart @ShadowWizard
8:16 AM
13 messages moved to Chimney
8:38 AM
@AndrewT. done
@JourneymanGeek cc @rene @TravisJ @Bart @ShadowWizard
this office laptop... the "[" and "]" keys are sticky :/
@JourneymanGeek >.... spam seed?
does it grow into a spam tree?
You see? That sadly isn't a representation of all that is wrong in the world. Which is what is wrong in the world.
money grows on spam trees
9:28 AM
Behold my field of f____s. It is barren with all the f____s I give about spammers feeding their families!
Let them eat spam! Till their bellies are full and they die of lethal deadly death!
> Should I post it on meta? A checklist:
a) was it posted already?
b) is it not worth posting?
c) does it include fun ?
d) can Derpy make a lame joke out of it?

If you answered yes to any of the above, avoid posting or face the consequences :P
unrelatedly the lost sheep are in herds today
@JourneymanGeek search youtube for "Knuckles Mania: Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles & Knuckles ....."
hmm. no ;p
10:05 AM
hmm. no ;p
hmm. no ;p
hmm no. ;p
so this year there will be no raccoon in hats, what else is it going to be?
got knocked out by PETA
10:12 AM
@JNat Only a few hours remains and finally we will get angry/mad/furious at Capcom again!
@AndrewT. Ugh. Wow.
10:29 AM
I wonder whether avatar is a reflect of mental state
for example I might feel like being an awkward fox
how does it feel like an awkward fox?
We got Goat Simulator.
Bear Simulator
Eagle Simulator
Bread Simulator.

time for an awkward fox simulator
Life simulator The Sims
10:55 AM
The brown fox jumped over the fence
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
Discrimination. What about foxes who are not quick? And dogs who are not lazy?
@ShadowWizard the not-quick foxes are too slow to jump so they simple walk around the dog.
non lazy dog, you mean.
11:13 AM
@ShadowWizard nope, the lazy one. The non-lazy dog has already moved out of the way and is enjoining some quality dog-food as a prize.
11:29 AM
anyone have any experience with Google Mybusiness?
@Derpy oh. Good thinking!
@OptimusPrime not me
2 hours later…
1:28 PM
place that contacted me last week decided not to go past the phone interview :(
@JourneymanGeek same happened to me with Facebook, no worry.
Great minds... fail alike. :D
@ShadowWizard oh that happened to me with google
AWS went through the whole interview cycle
lol. Kinda think this is the worst time possible to put in a speculative application at SE ;p
1:33 PM
mind clogging meta.stackexchange.com/questions/304011/… @Bart @rene @Journeyman @Trav
@JourneymanGeek AWS? Amazon Web Services?
@Journeyman so you almost worked for Amazon?
I heard they make their employees life really hard.
as Mechanical Turk?
Or a Fetching Dog
1:49 PM
@ShadowWizard Why whitelist the user?
@ShadowWizard The one guy I know who worked in project management at amazon told me it was well paid but literally hell in terms of stress and work environment
That just excludes the user from username checks. It's supposed to be used where a user has a name that we pick up but that this user is a FP, but would be picked up again (such as a user with 'support' in their name).
@ShadowWizard I'm fine with working my ass off
@Mithrandir because he's not a spammer?
@Magisch exactly
@AndrewT. data centre tech
1:51 PM
@ShadowWizard Yes... so? That's not what the whitelist is for.
I read they can't go to toilets during work time
@Mithrandir oh. so what is it for?
1 min ago, by Mithrandir
That just excludes the user from username checks. It's supposed to be used where a user has a name that we pick up but that this user is a FP, but would be picked up again (such as a user with 'support' in their name).
I'm not Smokey expert yet... :/
@Mithrandir ohhh.... well, that user can post another question with dots...
It'll get picked up again, then.
Q: How do I make a new and interesting type of "Zombie" creature?

WaterFire .RTHCODE DRIVER In my story, I want to have a world in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, but I also want it to feel different from any other interpretation out there. I call my monsters "Odd People" or "Oddities/Odds" for short, because of course I don't want to actually call them Zombies. How do I...

^ THIS one reminds me something...
My suggestion: have a random guy whose only daughter was killed by the army forces trying to contain (/silence) the epidemic get by chance involved in a job consisting of escorting another young girl of the same age to a secret resistence lab. For reasons the girl was infected weeks ago but does not show any sign of mutation, so the resistance hopes to study her in order to find a cure.

For added bonus, give your Odd Ones some main characteristic that may make them unique. For example, make them slowly turn in a plant/mushroom blind creature that uses sound to locate their prey. You can c
1:53 PM
Coffee-driven software?
2:05 PM
still no green matcha tea.
1 hour later…
3:24 PM
A solar car is a solar vehicle used for land transport. Solar cars only run on solar power from the sun. To keep the car running smoothly, the driver must monitor multiple gauges to spot possible problems. Cars without gauges almost always feature wireless telemetry, which allows the driver's team to monitor the car's energy consumption, solar energy capture and other parameters and thereby freeing the driver to concentrate on driving. Solar cars combine technology typically used in the aerospace, bicycle, alternative energy and automotive industries. The design of a solar vehicle is severely limited...
anyone wants to start an online petition to ask Microsoft to remove the ability to have store procedures return error codes messages instead of actual exceptions?
It doesn't even have to be some new implemented feature. Just a line in the eula stating it is consider illegal, so that I can legally refuse to touch them.
It is not plausible in 2017 to have to resort to magic string comparison to detect if the procedure had some error.
3:40 PM
@Feeds haha good luck
3:56 PM
@ShadowWizard is unclogged already ...
@Derpy can't you reverse engineer the resource dll so you have all possible error messages? Just compare the strings ...
Oh, some issues with parameters and let's hope they never switch locale ...
beyond that: totally plausible
No thanks, I'm happy to offer my free advice
@rene not "Made in Microsoft"
"(not-so) legacy code"
My idea was to post the error message to Microsoft Text Analytic service.
If the "sentiment" parameter is above a specified value, threat the message as "no problem, all success" otherwise show it as an error alert.
Sounds as an awesome way to spend time and money on
4:12 PM
already checked, a message like
> App Name: import successfull
gets a 97% sentiment rating.
So it may work.
Not something that you would want to implement but....
Ridiculous coding-pratices require ridiculous solutions.
(nope, don't worry - won't do that. But pretending helps venting the rage/delusion)
(that said, just figure the release notes:
> v1.xyz
- added call to Microsoft Cognitive Services to detect nature of store procedure generated text messages in order to compute the probability of the message to indicate that an error occurred
4:41 PM
@Derpy you can make it self-learning ... you show every mesaage to the end user and they can continue if they answer yes or no to the question does this look like an error message to you ....
1 hour later…
6:03 PM
23 messages moved to Chimney
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, repeating words in answer: Why does NAD+ become reduced if it gains a hydrogen proton? by Trey Kuntz on biology.SE
Kurtis Beavers on December 04, 2017

This post is part of a series on how we’re making Channels, the thinking behind the product, and insight into the process. We’ve got smart people working on smart solutions, and continue looking to the community and alpha/beta testers as we iterate toward launch. Read “Why Channels”, the first post in the series for more background info.

Working on Channels has been like any remodeling project: You start out excited, then you pull down the wood paneling and suddenly realize you’ve got rewiring to do — solving one issue leads to even more. …

6:19 PM
This every time you post?
Not clear if the prompt is limited to questions; answers can contain private information too.
That's not the look that we ended up implementing (at this point), but yeah - limited to questions at the moment.
Having been pinged under multiple posts recently, I ended up leaving a comment intended for user A under a post by user B. :/
I fully expect this (whatever form "this" actually takes) to be expanded to answers eventually too. Probably on about the first time someone posts their secret company development roadmap in response to a public question.
@Shog9 I can totally see people doing that
People with no real firm experience with normal stack not quite getting the difference and mistaking a question about a product they've made with something written in the internal Q/A
@Magisch uh-huh. PHPCEO joins Channels to commune with their dev team, sees the mixed question list in /questions/tagged/php, picks the wrong one...
@Shog9 Jokes aside, I think the actual issue here is you're removing the explicit association of "SO UI ==== PUBLIC" from people's minds
I know I'd fall for it at least once
@Magisch that's not a bad assumption though. It's folks who don't come in with that assumption that we'll have to watch out for
right now whenever I see the SO UI there's a voice in the back of my head going "make sure you're allowed to say this..." before every post. If people use channels for a long time, especially prior non-users of SO, that association might go away
6:38 PM
Consider the numerous examples of companies doing product support on SO: users showing up assuming SO is a company-specific support queue, employees showing up thinking posting links to the main support database is appropriate...
we'll have to go out of our way to establish the context
I guess making channels significantly visually distinct could do it
if we do that properly, we'll train folks to pay attention to context up-front - no need to wait for (potentially-problematic) assumptions to develop on down the road.
Of course the ideal is having people watch what they're posting and where they're posting it
Keep in mind, SO already has seen numerous instances of folks posting proprietary information in questions without realizing that this is public, in spite of the fact that just about everyone first arrives on Stack Overflow via questions found searching the public internet.
Thats true
There was this guy on SU posting working admin credentials to a company's exchange server
6:43 PM
So... In a certain sense, this is a low bar; we just need to provide slightly more situational awareness than newbcoder3291 from HIPAA Compliant Medical Records Processing LLC
(motto: "we send all your medical records to countries without extradition treaties!")
I guess
I'm excited about the charcoal channel and trying it out
don't get too excited; will probably be a while before that can happen
Oh, I know
I have IPS to tide me over
IPS is almost more exciting, tbh. It's a nice community and I want to try and help make it work. Also I suck at a lot of social situations so there's a lot to learn
yeah... I hope we get to see more generally-applicable cultural / etiquette questions though. Awful lot of stuff right now that... Well, that should be glad there's no "too localized" close reason anymore.
Awful lot of folks who struggle to understand protocols that are commonly seen as obvious, either because they just never paid attention, because they're someone that naturally has difficulty picking up on social cues, or because they grew up in a different culture and are struggling to integrate.
work in progress
6:51 PM
If you look at some of the most useful questions on, say, TWP (or SO for that matter) they tend to be things that the answerer saw as obvious until they realized it wasn't for someone, and took the time to explain it.
Right now, I kinda feel like 2/3rds of the folks writing answers on IPS are seeing it as a puzzle game: "it can't be as simple as the asker being blind to [social convention I take for granted] - I must figure out a complicated back story full of intrigue and deception and solve that instead"
the handful of people treating it as "explain human behavior to me like I'm 5" are giving me hope though.
the ultimate truth of SE's usefulness is that we're all clueless newbs in some situation.
@Shog9 Every time I find myself writing an answer like that I feel it's near deletion, though
Almost like a typo but for social situations thing
@Magisch remember: pearls vs. sand. All questions are terrible unless they find a willing oyster with time on its hands.
well, foot. Oysters don't have hands.
so far I really like it though
@Shog9 xI think there's also a vastly overrepresented sample of ASD people on TWP and IPS
from what I see in chat
@Magisch ASD? I guess that is not it ...
@rene autism spectrum disorder
Ah, and you think you can diagnose that in chat?
@Feeds Is there any way to get higher-resolution versions of the images in this post linked through the images? It's sort of difficult to see the images.
@Magisch Seems like an easy solution to that is to not require an SO account to use a channel... users who don't use SE, won't have to worry about accidentally posting on the live site.
7:21 PM
@rene No I know that at least 4 people I know from TWP chat told me they have it
I don't make assumption
@Catija The first one? I think that's purposeful.
@JonEricson More the second one... the first one is obviously huge, so I was guessing it was intentional... the two screen one near the end, though ?
Yeah. I'm not actually sure what that is supposed to show.
My guess was that the grey/red bar along the left of the question/questions list is how they're setting apart something that's on a Channel?
@Shog9 You should have seen TAS this morning... I had people in there trying to call the subject of a question "crazy" and saying things like "you always assume a gun is loaded"...
7:30 PM
@Catija uh...
7:56 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Where can you rent an RV like a car in the USA? by Usha on travel.SE
8:31 PM
@rene yeah but it was just the beginning...
8:46 PM
there is always an end to any beginning
8:59 PM
Not when it's circular.
10:05 PM
Is this duplicate of this and/or this? @rene @TravisJ @Journeyman @Andrew
Please honest/neutral opinion, ignore my comments if you happen to see them. Thanks!
@JeremyBanks is this a hint? ;)
10:23 PM
what's the new dashed line
dashed ugly line
Huh... dunno.
10:39 PM
@ShadowWizard Nope, it is discussing a new google search engine feature that seems tailored to Q/A modelled sites. The other questions discuss other aspects of the Google integration. Not dupes.
Also Martijn Rulez!
Well... it seems, maybe, to be marking every fifth message?
Hmmmm... but maybe won't break a chunk of text by the same person.
And they fade as the messages age...
11:03 PM
what are y'all even talking about?
Do you not see the dotted line above my first message... in that group of five...?
You can see them in the TL, too... there's two of them. Like I said, they seem to fade over time.
And now there's one between your message and mine.
no there isn't
that's old
that just means you left off reading there
Oh. Huh.
Then why do I have two of them?
11:07 PM
yeah, that's new
I've seen as many as 4-5 of them.
it does seem to be a bit more... sticky... than it used to be
They slowly fade but they stick around for a while.
did someone upgrade jQuery without telling anyone?
has all the hallmarks of an animation that's running way too slowly
Oh, so it's supposed to fade in a second and instead it's taking 20 minutes?
11:08 PM
something like that
I'm just guessing
Now I have three of them :P
So... would you unstar that instagram link of mine? I don't really think it belongs on the star board in here.
don't see that anyone's made changes to chat
Maybe it's been that way for a while and no one noticed?
11:13 PM
maybe. It isn't something I normally pay attention to unless I'm in a room with a LOT of activity.
I'm sort of surprised that it doesn't have a "go to last read option like the "go to my last message" option.
so, apparently the way this works is, when the page loses focus it tracks the last message you might've seen; when you return, it adds a catchup-marker
as opposed to a ketchup marker.
At the same time, it turns all catchup-marker-1 entries to catchup-marker-2 entries, -2 entries to -3 entries and -3 entries it removes.
So the speed at which they "fade" is determined by how often you flip to/from the chat
Ah, so it is supposed to fade.
11:17 PM
of course, reloading the page or switching rooms removes all of them
So, if I'm switching between tabs constantly, they should pop up frequently.
which is probably why I don't usually notice them: I keep one tab open per chat server and switch between rooms or open/close tabs.
So switching a tab doesn't count as losing focus?
Oh, I see... never mind.
I have one tab for each room... and never reload the pages.
ah. You should see them all the time then.
I think the logic for it is sort of odd. The line is always/usually immediately above something I've posted... but certainly I've read what I posted myself...
11:20 PM
Well, no matter - thanks for encouraging me to look up the behavior of a feature I've known about for years but never paid any attention to
In other news, I've become convinced that IPS is actually a religion site
which is a huge relief
@Shog9 Or at least a "morality" site.
granted, it's the secular equivalent of combining Islam, Hinduism, and Anglican Christianity... but still, there's at least something of a roadmap.
@Catija no, it can't really be that.
And yes, I know there are a couple of people who want it to be.
I think what I really balk at with that description is that, as an atheist, one of the things I find most annoying is when non-athiests assume that we can't have morals because we're not ascribing to some religious text that tells us the appropriate way to act.
@Shog9 If you've read the comments on the question apaul's quote comes from, I think it's obvious that's not my goal... but I just had two questions in a row asking us to define whether a certain type of action was offensive... and that's not really something I think we can do there.
@Catija no, I mean it can't be a site about morality because that implies there's a single objective morality. It's the same reason that the Islam site can't be dedicated to settling once and for all who's right: Shia or Sunni, or the Christianity site deciding that JWs aren't really Christian.
You can't have a site for questions that are inherently tied to culture and belief and simultaneously say that only one of them is right and answers from all the other perspectives are wrong, even when addressing questions from folks in the "wrong" culture.
@Shog9 But, to an extent, we do... we regularly delete answers that get heavily downvoted as bad advice... which is often just advice people don't agree with on a moral level.
If someone asked a question about women's rights, even in a place where that's not really part of their culture, it's likely that an answer from the culture saying "women have no rights" would be downvoted because many users want to pressure the rights of women on all cultures.
11:29 PM
@Catija yeah. That was one of the earliest hurdles to clear on most of the religion sites. Mostly it boils down to clearly delineating which sect or tradition is being asked about, but there's a more subtle aspect (which never goes away) and that's policing answers that try to proselytize: answer a JW question with an explanation of why JW is wrong, etc.
@Shog9 foundationism!
@JourneymanGeek I was gonna say "Colonialism is a proven solution here" but then I remembered it wasn't.
@Shog9 I think we're trying to do the latter... but getting people to say what culture they belong to - and even getting the users to agree to pressure askers for that information - is a struggle that I don't think we've met... and when users do try to pressure for the information, like hamlet, they end up giving up and leaving or get attacked by fellow users for trying to get the information.
@Shog9 fictional religion in b5
@Catija and the question would be downvoted because how dare they ask about such a terrible culture in the first place. Yeah, I know - that's where it takes more'n a few phrases in the help center to get past this; Islam & Christianity both took years to get even the basics nailed down, and it's still an ongoing battle for lots of newcomers.
11:32 PM
The idea that every religion has a core of truth but we're so wrapped up in society we forget who we are
Ah, I never watched that show
@rene yeah but now he's upset with me... :(
Ah. It's kinda what keeps me grounded when thoughts get too dark :p
Kinda ironically I suppose
@Catija because it's thankless, at least until there's critical mass. Y'all had an example earlier - something with a bikini - where folks were happily posting answers even while the request for clarification sat there unaddressed. Who cares if the asker gets useful info when you can write stuff!
And to be fair, it is a lot more fun when you can just answer anything. Even on religion sites.
Having to know something about what you're answering is a real downer.
^ voice of experience
@Shog9 Yeah... that one was troublesome. The edit history got a bit scary... I tried to rescue it somewhat.
11:36 PM
Opinions are like assholes.... :p. Everyone has one. They sometimes stink, and just cause you exercise it dosen't mean you're full of shit :p
Opinions are like assholes.... :p. Everyone has one. They sometimes stink, and just cause you exercise it dosen't mean you're not full of shit :p
@Shog9 ... So just like meta?
@Journeyman dupe alert
delete one
And check your connection... ;)
11:38 PM
@Catija Also, it's more'n just badgering askers. You gotta want that info so you can actually help them. It's about internalizing that goal.
IPS has two interesting factors. Questions are either trivial or trainwrecks... And people are nosy
@Shog9 So "the question is all" and right now we're in the "the answer is all" phase... we need to want the questions to be good before we want to write answers.
@JourneymanGeek Every site has trivial questions... and should. That's how you get the depth of knowledge... sort of like that SO question about finding the max number in a list... if you assume that everyone should already know what "max()" does, you'd never have the question because it's obvious...
@Catija but trivial questions... Often arn't and they're tempting for the quick/Blaise answer
@JourneymanGeek ... so you just changed the goal posts on me... when you say "trivial or trainwrecks" you have to mean actually are trivial or I can't really respond.
@Catija which users do when a trivial question isn't :p
11:44 PM
@Catija it's like I was saying to Magisch earlier: you want good answers. The questions are important only to the extent that they enable that. But... You can certainly end up with a lot of bad answers on bad questions, and if folks are champing at the bit to just post something that never bodes well for getting something thoughtful and informative.
Saw this new "Iota" site and took a look at the thing.
> As the first extensible module of the IOTA core, MAM enables nodes to exchange data through the Tangle, fully authenticated and encrypted. This means that your devices can transmit valuable and sensitive data with quantum-proof security through the Tangle, ready to be analyzed later.
Set off my bullshit alarms.
But looked in a bit further, and it looks like all of its claims are substantiated, with a seemingly-reasonable design.
@Catija on the other hand... What about the equivalent of a lack of research question?
11:46 PM
So maybe not one of the countless useless entrants in this space.
I don't know how to fight the absurdity of so many questions getting 5 - 10 answers... half of which are just "this sounds good in my head" answers. I struggle because I have to balance one site that will accept any answer that even remotely addresses the question asked... with a site where, if we allowed that, I'd want to go and cry in a corner.
I answered a question once which was literally turn off your numlock as an answer...
@Catija three options. Do. Nothing, the you're doing it wrong speech, or liberal application of question protection imo
@JourneymanGeek The problem is, if we want to attract etiquette questions, it's going to be difficult to find ones that haven't already been asked and answered by Emily Post.
Excellent? Maybe
@JourneymanGeek One of the things hamlet said at some point was that commenting on bad answers was not good... I don't remember the explanation.
Look at this one and the edit history: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/7558/…
11:51 PM
@Catija just about everything on SO is already documented... Somewhere
@Shog9 Right. I know. The point was, if we really require research from questions, a lot of those questions, like the one I just linked to, would never be asked.
@Catija or critical thought. And that's not a bad thing

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