Tavern on the Meta

badp's sockpuppet

10:20 AM

BTW, for how long has Chromium been having this new, kinda shiny logo?

Yi Jiang

@badpssockpuppet Quite recent

badp's sockpuppet

Yi Jiang

Can't find the source, dammit, but it is a very recent change

balpha

it must be; my Fedora version still has the old logo

badp's sockpuppet

@YiJiang That's good enough for me :)

Yi Jiang

10:28 AM

Here we go, 5 days ago: news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20040513-264.html

Nyuszika7H

I've just copied some text from CNET, and it added the Read more: <link> at the end. Is it a new Chrome feature or just CNET is doing this?

Yi Jiang

@Nyuszika7H It's a CNET feature, very interesting one too

Nyuszika7H

> Update 10:05 a.m. PT: There seems to be some confusion here about the all-blue logo. It's only for Chromium, not Chrome. Google uses the all-blue logo only for Chromium, which is devoid of proprietary software such as Adobe Flash Player that comes with Chrome proper. If Google introduces a similarly revamped Chrome logo as what Chromium is getting, expect it to inherit the multiple colors of today's Chrome logo.

Yi Jiang

It comes from a company called Tynt - have a look

Nyuszika7H

I thought JS can't change the clipboard contents...

Yi Jiang

10:37 AM

There are other ways it could do this - it could monitor selection and keydown events, then insert the text inside a hidden span into the end of the selection

(Speculation, of course)

Nyuszika7H

> Browsers usually get new features, but, unusually, Chrome had one removed: H.264 video is gone. Google said Chrome 10 would support Google's own VP8 video encoding, which it offers royalty-free in an attempt to unencumber Web video from patent licensing barriers that come with the widely used H.264. For those who are attached to the codec, Microsoft offers an H.264 Chrome plug-in for Windows 7 users. Read more: news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20040627-264.html#ixzz1GTVgLiS5

Yi Jiang

@Nyuszika7H That happened a while back didn't it?

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang Maybe.

Nyuszika7H

11:22 AM

Anyone there?

Yi Jiang

@Nyuszika7H Absolutely not, we've all bunked off to a real life tavern for drinks, see ya!

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang lol

Nyuszika7H

11:45 AM

0

Q: Tooltip of “share your answer” reads wrong

It isn't empty, it has an image…

Pekka

Anybody want to earn 300 Meta rep points?

Just add a sycophantic (but not too sycophantic) answer to this question:

30

Q: Improve tools for closing as duplicate

When closing a question as a duplicate, the goal obviously is to find not just some identical question, but the one that has the best answer. The search process doesn't support that goal perfectly yet. It allows you to find highest-voted questions which is nice, but when looking for a good dupe,...

feature-request search exact-duplicates

:)

Nyuszika7H

this message is for testing, I'll remove it – just please star it

ahh I can't remove it now :/ @starrer you can remove your star if you want

0

Q: OpenID association problem

I've recently registered on Game Development with my Google OpenID, and I got the 100 rep for associating my accounts, but my name is user6071 and the About me field is empty. I can't even copy my SO profile, it says an error occurred.

support openid user-accounts linked-accounts

Myles Gray

12:17 PM

@Pekka -

0

A: Improve tools for closing as duplicate

Excellent idea! I think this could be very useful as at the minute, we just get "closed as duplicate of XXXXX" where XXXXX may NOT be the best match for the question asked and may also not be the best answer of a series of duplicate questions. For example if we have 3 questions both "What use D...

Hows that?

Pekka

@MylesGray that did nicely. :) (The bounty was running out, and I'd've hated to see it go to waste)

Myles Gray

@Pekka no probs thank you :)

Yi Jiang

@MylesGray Congrats on your new 1k status :P

@MylesGray You do make the assumption that the best of the three dupes will have answer with the highest score; this probably isn't always true, the score of the answer depends on a lot of things

Nyuszika7H

SELECT * FROM Users WHERE Downvotes = 0 This returns Pollyanna.

Myles Gray

@YiJiang True but it does indeed help the searcher find relevant questions

Yi Jiang

12:22 PM

At this rate, envelope is going to overtake Jon Skeet facts in around 10 hours

The vote velocity is decreasing, obviously, but the speed is still phenomenon

Myles Gray

that envelope was always shit anyway

I got all my info from the MegaCollider

Nyuszika7H

~~Can anyone tell me why this query doesn't include Pollyanna (a.k.a. Adam Davis)?~~ Oh, got it, he isn't in the top 10.

In this query, Pollyanna is the first :) Criteria: more than 101 rep, at least one upvote and no downvotes.

badp's sockpuppet

1:46 PM

Yay, a feature request I made backfired! \o/

14

Q: XSS in Ask Question page

Copy paste following in browser bar, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/ask?title=test"><script>alert(1)</script>"&tags="></a></div><script>alert(/1/)</script><foo+bar=" or test link (might work, but not sure) but firefox 3.6 without nosc...

bug status-completed xss

Yi Jiang

Can anyone tell me why if I enter What happened to the Reputation Graph? into the new question form, instead of one of the exact duplicates with the same exact title showing up, I get a bunch of irrelevant questions with the dupes only appearing somewhere in the middle?

Speculation: Because the word [closed] was included in the title search, so these questions are deemed less relevant?

Or is the title search unsorted?

Tim Post

I am having way, way, way too much fun with cornify.

badp's sockpuppet

2:27 PM

@TimPost Welcome to the hive mind that is MSO.

It is ~~crowded~~ safer here.

Yi Jiang

@badpssockpuppet snuggles up to the hive mind

balpha

2:39 PM

0

Q: Reputation graph

Screenshot About I've never been a fan of the reputation graph, but it seems a few people miss it since it has been removed. This user script adds a little "graph" link to a user's reputation tab. Clicking it will show a graph of the user's total and average daily reputation (using Googl...

script reputation

Yi Jiang

@balpha I'll give it a test; it scrapes the data from the same rep page, right?

balpha

Yeah

Yi Jiang

Is 640 the max width the chart api can go?

balpha

I don't think so, I just picked a number

it's not really pretty yet

I might tweak here and there

Rebecca Chernoff

yawns

Yi Jiang

2:46 PM

750 is the max the URL will accept

Nyuszika7H

@balpha ~~And what about Area 51?~~ ah, *.stackexchange.com includes it

Area51 still has the old reputation graph!

Yi Jiang

The average daily rep thingy is slightly weird, because it peaks at 450 for me even though I definitely received 500 rep bounties before

@Nyuszika7H A51 uses an old fork of the SE engine, so any updates here will have to be ported over there, slowly

balpha

@YiJiang it's averaged

over all days that are included in a data point

I'm thinking about changing it to "max", but not sure yet

Yi Jiang

And how large is a data point? Three or two days?

balpha

depends on the view

there's always 100 data points

Yi Jiang

2:52 PM

Dammit... column-count doesn't work with tables

Tim Post

@balpha What, no "Share this graph on Facebook link?" [status-hiding]

balpha

what's this "facebook" thing you speak of?

Nyuszika7H

@TimPost there is (:

Yi Jiang

@balpha It's where people with crippled fingers who must type with txtspk goes to poke each other

Nyuszika7H

Tim Post

2:57 PM

@balpha Facebook is a replacement 'outside' for those who have unfortunately been born, or become, too disabled to go outside.

Yi Jiang

Mar 10 at 8:21, by Yi Jiang

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why I don't use Facebook

balpha

sounds ~~like fun~~ interesting. I should ~~check it out~~ acknowledge its existence.

Tim Post

@balpha Inhale an inordinate amount of solvents and then thrust your head into a watermelon. It's basically the same experience.

2

Nyuszika7H

world is exploding in 1 minute boom!

Rebecca Chernoff

...

Yi Jiang

3:02 PM

@Nyuszika7H Poor chat server...

balpha

@YiJiang yeah, I'll change to max. It's not as precise in a way, but it's more helpful data

badp's sockpuppet

@balpha Be aware that there's an hard limit on the request URL length for the Google API

it isn't very high either

balpha

I know, but Jon Skeet hasn't blown it up, so it's fine :)

Nyuszika7H

Tim Post

What about Google is clear, @badpssockpuppet ?

balpha

3:15 PM

@badpssockpuppet the URL length for Jon Skeet's "last 100 days" graph (which should be the longest of all) has < 1.4k

2k is allowed

Tim Post

I wonder if SE is going to keep tweaking the top tool bar until they run out of room?

badp's sockpuppet

@balpha I guess I fail for hitting this limit when I wrote TrafficLeft then

@TimPost The dropdown is part of the ongoing efforts to prune it

balpha

TrafficLeft?

Nyuszika7H

badp's sockpuppet

It graphed traffic over time of sites, back when the API returned meaningful values for it

balpha

3:17 PM

ah, ok

badp's sockpuppet

Since SE switched to median over last 7 days and the API didn't, I switched it off

...I wonder if this changed in v1.1 though

Tim Post

1

Q: Are Stack Overflow people *still* nice?

Title reference is to Why are Stack Overflow people nice? We had the good fortune, to start this experiment with a really positive culture, and have managed to hang onto it through vast growth and several fairly bitter internal arguments. But that does not guarantee we'll keep it forever. Latel...

discussion stackoverflow culture

badp's sockpuppet

eh, didn't happen.

Rebecca Chernoff

sigh even though the dropdown hover is actually text rather than an image, ▾, it is a span so gleeBox won't activate on it. Thought memorizing the character would at least make it usable without the mouse. >_<

grumbles

And I get the feeling any post regardless of content about anything to do with that menu is going to get chewed out. Heh.

Tim Stone

3:40 PM

So, who wants to pretend to be me and go to this work conference so I don't have to? :P

Yi Jiang

8 hours ago, by Yi Jiang

I found your work at http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/ . It looks really awesome. I'm co-founder (company name) here in Singapore. Our team here, we're looking for someone exactly like you to help with our application. Are you currently still studying? I'd like to know more about you.

You can contact me at (email) or call me at (phone) at any time. Let me buy you coffee just for a chat yea =)

Uh, I still have not replied

Tim Stone

Why not? :P

Yi Jiang

Because I have no idea what to reply?

Tim Stone

That you're a student and you'd be willing to accept free coffee?

3

balpha

is (company name) anything good?

Moshe

3:44 PM

Morning folks.

Yi Jiang

@balpha 2 man webapp startup, currently in the private beta stage

Tim Post

@YiJiang Getting paid to improve your hobby projects is one of the few brass rings you can get early on

balpha

I'm with @TimStone. The worst thing that can happen is bad coffee.

Nyuszika7H

0

A: Hello World 0.0!

PHP – 73 chars <?$a=(int)null;$a++;$a++;$a++;$b=--$a;$a++;echo Hello.chr($a.$b).World;?>

Tim Stone

Which, while certainly a crime itself, isn't too terrible.

Yi Jiang

3:48 PM

You do realize that I have never drank coffee before?

Tim Stone

Well that's just silly.

Matt Ball

g'mornin all

Yi Jiang

@TimStone It is, yes. Maybe this is a chance to rectify that

Tim Stone

'Ello

@YiJiang And quickly too, before certain coffee-hating individuals try to convince you otherwise.

Matt Ball

Is it just me, or are the 2 Reputation tabs on user profiles exactly the same thing?

Matt Ball, Rhode Island

609 1 10

discussion support stackoverflow feature-request tags specific-question meta-discussion

Yi Jiang

3:53 PM

@MattBall They should be gone already, right?

The repeated rep and fav tab bug

Apparently not. takes out sharp stick, pokes @NickCraver

3

Matt Ball

I don't see them on my own profile, but they're still there for others (hence linking my own account for you to see).

Nick Craver

@MattBall ....oops?

Matt Ball

I want my money back for this broken product. Deal? Deal.

Nick Craver

the one up top will be removed, that was a result of swapping tabs around before

not to say reputation won't end up as a top tab, we're weighing what's best up there

Nyuszika7H

:kitten wob

Rebecca Chernoff

4:01 PM

Ok, SEKeyboardShortcuts now supports the profile popup thingadongdong.

Yi Jiang

@balpha Maybe a bar graph for daily rep change would be better than a line graph

Matt Ball

oh dear me i.imgur.com/ekW1y.png

Tim Stone

Oh wow, heh.

@RebeccaChernoff \o/

Actually that reminds me, I was supposed to finish making the help for that all nice...when I get back from this conference hopefully I'll have some time.

Nyuszika7H

ISS (Infinite Scrolling Syndrome)

Synopsis: you're seeing that the page is scrolling one way, up or down, but actually, it scrolls both ways.

Steps to reproduce:
- 1. Click on any message, then press and hold the up arrow.
- 2. Click somewhere on the scrollbar, lower or upper than the actual position of its handle.

Yi Jiang

@TimStone You should update the userscript readme about how to extend sechatmod.js

Nyuszika7H

4:05 PM

@YiJiang echo "\b\b\bifications.js";

Rebecca Chernoff

I've been kind of down on the script lately. It makes so much more sense just to use gleeBox. Having to hack in support for things that don't work with it feels dirty.

Tim Post

Does anyone know a place to find statistics on what programs people use to create professional documents, or perhaps even books?

I can find OS and browser statistics galore, but keep coming up blank on statistics for editor usage that isn't programming related

Tim Stone

@YiJiang Hmm, that's a good point. I'll do that too, thanks for reminding me.

@RebeccaChernoff I conveniently have no idea what gleeBox is.

Matt Ball

@TimPost seems like something of a tough statistic to gather, at least w/o a user survey

Tim Stone

@TimPost Interesting question, though unfortunately I have no clue.

Rebecca Chernoff

4:07 PM

thegleebox.com

Moshe

waiting at a train station

Nick Craver

@TimPost I use notepad, so +1 to that?

surely the tavern is a statistically significant sample

Moshe

pokes the people who invented moving the clock ahead with a sharp stick

2

Rebecca Chernoff

I am lost without gleeBox.

Well, not lost, I really just despise having to use a mouse. Heh.

Moshe

I use Xcode and Textwrangler on Mac. On Windows I use notepad and textpad. On iPad I use Textastic.

Nick Craver

4:09 PM

@RebeccaChernoff they have trackpads now!

2

Moshe

Apple has a trackpad.

store.apple.com/us/product/MC380?mco=MjE0OTI0MDc

Rebecca Chernoff

@NickCraver uhh but isn't that basically the same thing? It still requires removing a hand from the natural position on a keyboard.

Tim Post

@MattBall I realize that, I was looking for someone who published said survey data

Nick Craver

@RebeccaChernoff they have....keyboards with trackpads!

or the little mouseball thingy

which i never understood...

Yi Jiang

Or mouse.. with keyboards!

Moshe

4:12 PM

@Nick but... My thumbs...

Rebecca Chernoff

I am absolutely fine using the trackpoint on a laptop. My index finger can naturally use it between bgh. But the touchpad below it is not usable with my hands in a natural position.

Nick Craver

@Reba

Matt Ball

Seriously, much as I love me my Apple, I can't see a use for a standalone trackpad.

Nick Craver

ahhh keyboard fail

Moshe

@MattBall hear hear

Nick Craver

4:13 PM

@RebeccaChernoff - the only plausible solution is a keyboard and mouse in one

Yi Jiang

Tim Post

Nick Craver

....you need a smartphone!

Tim Post

SURVEY SAYS: Notepad. Case closed

Rebecca Chernoff

No, the only plausible solution is just to use the keyboard. >_<

(:

Nick Craver

4:13 PM

nooooooooooooooo

Yi Jiang

2

Nick Craver

what button on SO do you use most?

Yi Jiang

Keyboard on mice!

Nick Craver

we'll be sure to tab-index: 200 that sucker ;)

Matt Ball

I feel dirty from seeing those mouse photos

Tim Post

4:14 PM

@YiJiang If that had a thermopile to sense 'stress' and change the functionality of the buttons, I'd buy one

Matt Ball

That ain't right, man

Rebecca Chernoff

@NickCraver Heh.

Nyuszika7H

Nick Craver

@YiJiang is there a category for that on newegg? i didn't see 20+ button mice as an option...

badp's sockpuppet

@NickCraver Even better, randomize tab-index

Every time, a new tabbing experience!

Rebecca Chernoff

4:16 PM

Tab index only matters if the text is the same.

Matt Ball

Sounds like it makes tabbing more efficient

Nick Craver

@badpssockpuppet - a few proposed we keep moving the login link, maybe once a week

Matt Ball

like randomized quicksort

balpha

just make all links spans, and use a delegated click handler

4

Tim Post

Every Windows 7 computer should ship with a 20 button mouse.

Rebecca Chernoff

4:16 PM

@balpha @#$&^#@@!#$%&^

Tim Stone

I think that the links should dance about the screen randomly, to the tune that @balpha had stuck in his head yesterday.

Navigating SO: It's a musical adventure!

shakes fist at Chrome

Why do you insist on crashing my tabs? |:

Rebecca Chernoff

gleeBox searches on <a>. I find myself really starting to despise sites that make links spans. Which is a problem when Kiln and SE does it. Heh.

Nick Craver

$("a").wrap("<blink>");

5

Yi Jiang

@NickCraver There isn't? There totally should be one!

Nyuszika7H

Rebecca Chernoff

4:18 PM

and more and more links get moved to spans. ):

Tim Post

I have it.

Tim Stone

@YiJiang The real mistake is them only having mice for only one hand. We all know that you need to use two hands for maximum control.

Yi Jiang

@TimStone And why limit ourselves to only two dimensions when we could be waving our hands in front of the monitor like a conductor! Or a madman...

Tim Post

Take any mouse. Glue an inverted tack to it either in the center, or on any button. Now you have a prototype for a mouse that re-arranges the links on any page in accordance with your genetic predisposition to apathy. This is either all of the time, or some of the time, depending on where you glue the tack.

Tim Stone

@YiJiang I can do that with my Kinect.

Tim Post

4:21 PM

The beauty is, you don't need a DNA engine if you just glue it to the left button and think twice about clicking.

Rebecca Chernoff

...and this is why I didn't want to post on meta, heh.

Tim Stone

What's Meta? We never visit that place.

badp's sockpuppet

Meta is what Meta does.

Rebecca Chernoff

Judging from the level of mocking in here, I am not in the mood for the level I'd get by posting on meta. (;

Tim Stone

You know what's bad? I don't even remember what we were talking about originally.

badp's sockpuppet

4:25 PM

It's not mocking, it's banter. I'm sure there's a difference.

Tim Stone

I know where it led, but..

badp's sockpuppet

@TimStone Annoying Rebecca, obviously.

Tim Stone

I thought that was the response, not the topic?

badp's sockpuppet

Well, the topic was then Rebecca's annoyance.

Tim Stone

I'm down to ~ 1 flag weight increase? Gah.

On the plus side, there's been less to flag recently, though it is the weekend right now..

Tim Post

4:29 PM

@TimStone Give it about twelve hours

Nyuszika7H

jsfiddle.net/Xy9Sn/embedded/result

Tim Stone

@TimPost I've been meaning to ask you, too...if all you guys (Or, at least Bill the Lizard) are doing is writing comments on a lot of these posts explaining the situation to these posters, should we just...do that? Or should we still just flag the posts?

Pekka

Ohhhh boy!

Tim Stone

I'd hate for the flags to just be a "Write this comment for me, moderators!" is all, heh.

Pekka

javascript:$("div").wrap("<marquee>");

need to keep that one in mind for when the next XSS vulnerability is found

Those get fixed much too quickly these day by the way.

Tim Post

4:32 PM

@Pekka I'm gong to slap you, but reserve the right to un-slap later.

Pekka

@TimPost you'll thank me when we get that hilarious marquee hack injected into a hugely popular question!

Tim Post

@Pekka Why does everyone pick on Bobince?

Pekka

@TimPost good idea!

badp's sockpuppet

Because bobince's blog is cooler than everyone else's.

Pekka

@badpssockpuppet it is

Tim Post

4:33 PM

Now I've done it.

Pekka

it's the only one showing how to do basic math with jQuery

Tim Post

JQuery can do math?????!!!!!!!!!!

badp's sockpuppet

(today I did run $(".rep-change").sum() :|)

obviously it didn't work but...

Pekka

This one works fine for SO's home page:
javascript:$("h3").wrap("<marquee>");

Tim Post

I wonder what these chat mod tools do? I've never really tried them

badp's sockpuppet

4:36 PM

however it's for the best, this lets you use moar jQuery

3

var x; $(".rep-change").each( function(){ x+=--$(this).text() }!!!

although that's not quite enough string and jQuery abuse

Nyuszika7H

@TimPost Yes.

8

A: Make an application that adds two inputted numbers together

/*************************************************************************** ***DISCLAIMER*************************************************************** **************************************************************************** THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED “AS IS” AND ANY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED WAR...

Tim Stone

@badpssockpuppet Your mistake of course was using var x instead of $(document).data('x')

badp's sockpuppet

@TimPost edit beyond the 2 minutes window is the single best mod power ever

Tim Stone

Or edits to other people's messages, if you're a Ninja

Nyuszika7H

Tim Stone

4:38 PM

Oh, surprise SO reps. :o

Tim Post

I know what they do, I was being sardonic

Tim Stone

@YiJiang You repro'ed this yeah?

Although I suppose you've upgraded to FF4 now.

Yi Jiang

@TimStone Yeah, but not sporadically - I can repro it every single time

Moshe

@drachenstern - meet my dev mode and my brand new high score.

Tim Stone

@YiJiang Clearly they're just not doing it right, then.

Tim Post

4:45 PM

Code bowling? WTF?

Yi Jiang

What is the correct tag for the profile dropdown thingy?

Tim Post

<sigh>

Nyuszika7H

<facepalm>

Tim Post

You can golf with bowling balls, you just need a bigger club

4

Tim Stone

@YiJiang Hmm, it probably doesn't have one.

So as to what it should be...

Yi Jiang

4:47 PM

profile-popup will do?

Or profile-dropdown ?

badp's sockpuppet

@YiJiang serious-business

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang If you call it profile dropdown, then profile-dropdown.

Tim Stone

@YiJiang I'm tempted to call it dashboard, but I guess that's also ambiguous. I guess go with dropdown for now, it can always be changed.

Yi Jiang

Anyway... (pokes @NickCraver with sharp stick again) See, now someone's having trouble with a stable version of Firefox

Nyuszika7H

yourebustingmyballs.com/ballsup

Yi Jiang

4:50 PM

@TimStone Eh, I called it profile-popup

Edit already submitted

Tim Stone

Well that's just unacceptable.

But alright. :P

Yi Jiang

@TimStone Indeed, when you're not the one getting the taxonomist tag for this one :P

Nyuszika7H

> Unsafe JavaScript attempt to access frame with URL chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/89/the-tavern-general from frame with URL meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/83029/profile-dropdown-bug. Domains, protocols and ports must match.

Yi Jiang

@TimPost Eh?

Oh, right. Of course you didn't

Tim Post

@Nyuszika7H You should totally look into real time clocks, that was way off

Yi Jiang

4:54 PM

Okay, let's see... language-agnostic - yes; fun - yes; code-bowling - yes, unless you want to ban it. anti-golf can be made a synonym of code-bowling or vice versa. addition is marginally relevant... so it's all okay, erhm... right?

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang code-bowling shouldn't be removed from it, code-bowlings belonged on SO when Code Golf didn't exist.

Tim Post

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but looks like you are checking up on tags .. great job :)

Tim Stone

Where was that abomination from last night?

11 hours ago, by Tim Stone

22

Q: Requirements Gathering

How do you go about the requirements gathering phase? Does anyone have a good set of guidelines or tips to follow? What are some good questions to ask the stakeholders? I am currently working on a new project and there are a lot of unknowns. I am in the process of coming up with a list of quest...

software-engineering requirements requirements-management requirements-gathering requirements-elaboration

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