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12:11 AM
@Shog9 No: that I lost zero rep in the quoted snarls.
12:49 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, pattern-matching website in answer: What is the relationship between Working Memory and Attention, and how can one access his WM? by The Writers on cogsci.stackexchange.com
@tchrist Poor you. Maybe we need more Perl docs. ;)
Considering that I also wrote or rewrote all the original perl man pages, and perl faqs, not to mention thousands of pages of perl books, that's saying something.
That's why I said that. ;)
What's the line about any business requirement about needing smarter customers is doomed to failure?
Because I keep wanting to suggest it, and I keep getting shot down. :)
What exactly needing smarter "customers"?
1:06 AM
Better customers ask better questions.
Ah. So what would you be suggesting then? Eventual doom, the future is bleak, the world will end?
Final exam: Compare and contrast the varying pros and cons of both curating and crowd sourcing in the context of contemporary information repositories.
That's... more like a graduate thesis than a final exam. :P
It could be either, depending on the level of detail.
Well, if you're only writing a limited amount on it, you either don't understand the topic or haven't fully thought out everything.
1:19 AM
You can definitely compress it down to a few pages for a final exam.
1:49 AM
Can't say I'm overly-familiar with this logic, but I'd guess it might reset the backoff if you keep trying, @hichris123 - otherwise a badly-designed client would just keep hammering away until the request went through. — Shog9 ♦ 1 min ago
@Shog9 I thought that might be it, but you can see the timeline here - first a backoff of 10 seconds, a violation 1 second later, then the next request 14 seconds later - still a violation.
persistent client, I like that ...
Ambition is the path to success. Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in.
@hichris123 you sure that's the only place that client is hitting the API?
nothing else with the same key / token / IP?
Fairly positive -- obviously I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure.
2:05 AM
@hichris123 because your timeline... Is odd.
You get the backoff, then retry 1 second later instead of waiting 10
Then you wait 12 seconds - I assume that's something the app decided on as a reasonable response to a backoff error - and retry three times.
Then you retry again 15 seconds later, and again twice more 14 seconds after that
Which suggests some combination of errors to me:
@Shog9 Well, the short version is we have terrible handling of backoffs. It's multithreaded, so a couple threads will be fighting to retry their request immediately after the backoff ends. However... we still never receive another backoff from the API - it just keeps saying we violated the backoff and nothing more.
1) you're relying on system timers that do not have a guaranteed rate of fire and can and do batch up triggers.
2) you're not actually debouncing triggers.
@hichris123 ok, that's just dumb then.
nothing the API can do will fix that
... thanks, I guess?
My point is that it should be telling us that the backoff was extended.
@hichris123 I kinda don't think it is
At least, I can't find anywhere in the code where it would be
Why not use one of those fancy things where the backoff_until date and the callback pointeris stored at one memory location that all thread see?
2:10 AM
again, it's possible that it resets if you keep hitting it, and I'm just missing that; first time I've ever looked at this code
But... Outside of crazy error conditions, you shouldn't be hitting it anyway
@Shog9 Hmm. The simplest way I found to reproduce it was just click run on api.stackexchange.com/docs/answers 11 times (once per second). After the 11th time, it still says you've violated the backoff.
Not trying to be mean, but the API is pretty well-defined in this area and from the sound of it the design of the app makes it all but impossible to fulfill the conditions set out.
@Shog9 True.
So the takeaway is that you should use DevDoodle because there's no rate limiting on the API?
2:13 AM
Ideally, you have something to manage your requests; you're not trying to handle this every place you need something from the API, and whatever is handling them for you is also keeping track of the rate at which you're hitting it, any backoffs that might be in place, etc.
I'm also somewhat confused why we're suddenly getting backoffs -- is server load increased or something? Nothing major changed in our code related to API handling, and yet backoffs suddenly increased sometime in August: chat.stackexchange.com/….
That frees you up to queue requests, feed them in at a reasonable rate, log everything in a consistent way and most importantly: not make any when there's a backoff in place.
@hichris123 not sure what you're doing there, but it's entirely possible that it got slower
@Shog9 While I agree, there's the time vs. benefit tradeoff. And it worked for us for a good year-ish until recently, so...
I mean, usually we only saw backoffs close to 3 UTC or midnight UTC (times of high server load). Now we see them all the time.
@hichris123 are you getting any errors along with the backoff?
or is everything working, but now there are more backoffs?
The second one. Just more backoffs.
2:17 AM
Wow. fold.it is still in beta. I played it like 6 years ago on an ancient iMac. Ah, the memories…
It's also interesting that hitting /answers on SO without any parameters gives an immediate backoff of 10 seconds. Perhaps there's a bad query in there or something?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, pattern-matching website in answer: Exclamation for pain by user14065 on linguistics.stackexchange.com
Although that shouldn't affect us, we rarely hit /answers.
@hichris123 the backoff is actually based on how expensive the request is. If it takes more than a little bit of time - even if it's successful - it'll tell you to back off.
@Yvette I can in a little bit; just finishing supper. What's up?
2:19 AM
There's some disgusting people going out of there way to make women feel demoralised
@Shog9 they won't stop the line of chat
that's why I came here
just troll back
works every time for me
@Telkitty I'm trying not to get into arguments
2:20 AM
@Shog9 Right. I suspect something similar to meta.stackexchange.com/a/244314/237685 is going on -- maybe that should be another bug report...
@Yvette ok, well, I'll look in a little bit. They can... wait for me, so to speak.
@Shog9 thanks
@hichris123 sounds like it
2:52 AM
I want to watch "The 'Shog-ening"
x 2
3 messages moved to Sandbox
... oops, that invited you to the sandbox, @Yvette. Sorry. :/
3:09 AM
@hichris123 lol it's cool ;)
I wonder how many times I've invited Smokey to the Sandbox. Smokey must like sandcastles by now...
4:02 AM
Why is that person shanking Firefox? How is Firefox sexist?
coz modified this
Ahhhh fair enough
4:28 AM
SOCVR is going off so I'll ask this here. How the hell do you strikethrough in chat?
the usual suspects don't work
three --- on either side like this
ahhh thanks!
2 hours later…
6:13 AM
@Yvette should we break Drew's heart and tell him Shog showed up because you asked and the burnination topic was his clever way to move the discussion on?
6:40 AM
@JNat not a troll or spammer this time, but a user who post very poor answers all around the network, to old questions: stackexchange.com/users/8732591/ty-smith?tab=activity
(one of his answers on MSE was already deleted by Adam, other one flagged by me)
What you think we should do?
1 hour later…
8:09 AM
@JamesENL yeh I know ... don't break his heart
8:26 AM
@ShadowWizard Meh, just let 'em be. I've deleted the answer on MSE you flagged. They only seem to have contributed with poor answers there, aside from a single one on SF, which is deleted too. It's not like they're leaving a massive amount of new crappy answers all over the network (at least for now), so I wouldn't do anything. If they keep it up, they'll get blocked anyway, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2 hours later…
10:40 AM
34 messages moved to Sandbox
11:06 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: How to make interactive video presentation? by George Jones on video.stackexchange.com
Is my combined user flair only broken for me, or for everyone? (shows internal server error for me)
@rene voted on the 2nd. Already did so on the 1st
That's what I see
11:40 AM
I see what he ^ sees
That's ... disturbing ...
Yes ... it is ...
There is a flower in here
There is a smiley in here
11:55 AM
I'm so much offended when people think that my username should start with a capital...
@rene rEnE
You had to push it, right?
12:13 PM
Hey @Yvette. Chat works again?
@Bart yes, it's driving me crazy
So a very intermittent issue then? That's weird
I am changing things in my Norton settings
well interesting thing
Just something I've realised. The Chat notification sound is the same as the Star Trek door sound. You clever coders!
12:15 PM
I clicked on a link in a smoke detector report
and it was porn
INSTANTLY I could not get into chat
I think it's my anti virus software
... hmm, that's interesting
So Norton would block you from a site, if it had a link leading to something problematic
@Bart perhaps?
12:17 PM
and I just changed some settings in Norton and can get back in
Hah. Norton doesn't have logs that show you what it did?
Don't use it myself
Let's try to link to offensive stuff to see if we can block @Yvette again ...
yeh I knew it was a conspiracy
all for science ...
12:19 PM
A picture of your face @rene?
High five anyone? Anyone? No? ...
pretty offensive, yeah
well if Norton things stack chat is offensive,. then my meta question is moot
@Bart high five (flower squashed in middle)
12:23 PM
kinky ...
I mean
@Telkitty lol
I was meaning, like a flower- literally
I'm a smiley my mouth is ~65% of my face
@Magisch so a big mouth? literally
12:25 PM
an apt metaphor for my social skills
(or the lack thereof)
we're all renowned for our social skills on here
@Yvette oyi ...
@rene yo?
I tried to mimic the sound I make when smashed ...
that's too intense for me ~faints~
12:31 PM
@rene ahhh
fans are fainting, I'm a pop-star
Pretty much the Bieber of the flower world
Still trying to find a way to rearrange the letters in @rene name to write out "Serial Murderer".
Explanation of the joke here: 1, 2, 3
@Bart harsh dude
12:46 PM
(Yep, @rene. We still think you must be the same flower. Or a close relative)
I know @JamesENL. It's just that I dislike the Dutch. That's all.
I always picture @rene as the flower from undertale
@Bart do you like the Austin Power movies? Michael Caine. there's only two types of people I can't stand in this world, bigots and the Dutch
@Yvette I might have been referring to that. And of course i'm Dutch myself. :)
@Bart ah of course, so you can insult them. gotcha
1:00 PM
@Yvette oh, nice you give him the go-ahead with his insults.
@rene whenever anyone insults someone for being Dutch I think of that movie
the movies are so stupid they're funny
raccoon emojis, good idea or not?
@Telkitty you are around the corner from me
where are you
1:05 PM
I'm at St Ives
true, very close, like 20-30 minutes drive
I'm also looking for an ios developer to do a small fix
I am going for a holiday for 2-3 weeks next Monday
@Telkitty can I email you?
1:06 PM
I have a job we're about to advertise, will only take 1-2 days
I've never programmed ios
email sent
got it
email sent through website and from gmail
1:10 PM
yeah I have received it, but if it's for something urgent, I suggest you contact someone else
@Telkitty sure thanks
Good to meet you
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Efficient way to edit WordPress themes by user3440889 on wordpress.stackexchange.com
also I generally take on whole new app development from scratch and not do bug fixes based on hourly rate
yep that's ok
1:15 PM
We took over the whole project including the web app. I can manage the android app, the ios app is buggy
what's it written in?
swift or objective C?
don't laugh
we want to do a rewrite into C# with xamarin, but just need to fix a couple of things in the meantime
1:16 PM
I have an app that's on the market which I have written 5 years ago and have not touched since
they had a wordpress site and webapp, which we've rewritten into asp.net/ mvc / C#
why? wordpress not good enough?
@Telkitty this one crashes when the notification is pressed. We think we know the cause, but cannot test it well enough.
@Telkitty the php web app and database were not very good
you know you can customize wordpress - it's written in PHP & mySql right
1:18 PM
it was customized, poorly
and the previous developer bought a package for plugins, so they needed to be removed and readded, could not just be updated
the db was so bad, there was one table with so many null values to cater for such a variety of types within it. The types didn't belong in the same table
so whoever customize the wordpress didn't do a complete job
1:20 PM
it was changed and code was just commented out in both the php and android
empty classes left
it was a mess
I messed around with wordpress, domain name, IP etc for a little while, then things start to break at places where you least expect them
I don't like word press. It can be expensive anyway
you mean plugin packages?
1:23 PM
wordpress itself is free?
@Yvette we have a single table to process EDI / EDIFACT requests
yes, but I more mean paying a developer to customise a web app
@Magisch this database was terrible. The business logic changed and the database was just changed to add null values to tables, rather than a proper refactor
Oo, I do all my own customization
@Yvette Our edi database is equally terrible. It has 689 columns, and the usual request fills about 20
1:26 PM
@Magisch I can't comment.
There are rules for databases that can be used to work out if they are efficient
My VPS provider is very good, I get some help from them
we work as a team for corporate clients
@Yvette noticed your question on meta, expect a reply later when I have time.
@Derpy oky doky
1:30 PM
I am starting getting pretty annoyed about this whole "how you dare to flag" thing...
that is what upset me
Not the comment, those things will happen, it's the community reaction to the flag to the comment and how that caused a cascade of comments. that really upset me. It's like: Have I entered the Twilight zone?
I missed than dang nabbit
ah really
we should meet!
1:33 PM
Yeah, we should
@Derpy Lots of people are super salty about the chat flag system since there is no option between "This is an appropiate post" and "Tempban the user for this"
well we have our emails now. I will give you my number. You are the closest person to me on SO!
1:37 PM
@Magisch there isn't? Very strange, all the times I flagged inappropriate posts (see all the multiple offenses to Kalina for an example of the kind of stuff) and the room backfired at it the result was at best removed post + 30 seconds ban.
The power of Telkitty and Yvette combined ... I fear the Tavern is in danger. :p
Seems to me that whoever was handling those flags had plenty of options to slip them under the carpet imho
@Bart oooh yes... it will be great to meet someone from here!
yeah I replied
@Derpy If you get repedeatly flagged (same user) the ban lenghts escalate
1:39 PM
@Magisch Aaaaand what is the bad part in this?
Most people view bans as an extreme measure, inappropiat for people they think have just overshot chat a little
@Telkitty yeh I look like my pic. I'm a 49 year old woman. (not like really a 60 year old man)
I'm not agreeing with it, thats just the vibe I got from the lounge
@Derpy There is a pretty strong feeling of encapsulation within chatrooms
I look like my picture
going so far as that many many people think if someone is offended by crude language, they should just leave the chatroom.
There was a whole meta crapstorm about it earlier this year and it got downvoted to -160 by the general community
1:42 PM
well we have lift off.. ready to take over the SO @Telkitty ;)
@Magisch link?
@Magisch and that is exactly why people need to finally realize they are still on stack and not drinking grog in a far away buccaneer's den on Tortuga island.
@Derpy exactly!
particularly in rooms that are for moderation
And do beware that I try to be far more reasonable in flagging over other rooms of what I would do in my room. But there is a bare minimum one should always enforce
Like, if you really have to post a questionable image as part of your joke avoid to onebox it
the people interested in your joke will probably still click it if you use a link but I won't have to see it.
and that is just considering posting of contents that may or may not begin questionable based on the viewer sensibility.
1:52 PM
I'm going to bed. night all
rudeness to other users isn't likely to be something open to subjective interpretation.
Btw, since you are actually here...
> In essence: "What is and isn't inappropriate" is a community process that can and should be overridden by moderators where necessary.
I think that the mayor problem we have here is that some of those communities agreed on a standard that is simply "not-strict-enough" and that isn't going to work well just because "the community get to decide". The mod can and should override, but the point is that they shouldn't come to this point in the first place
(and when they have to, I still think that the result should be more fearsome that what it is now. I want to see the sign of the fire and the burning on those chat rooms wall for a while...)
@Bart ^ happy? Now you have a photo of Rene.
2:08 PM
Who is Rene?
Are Rene and Bjb friends?
@tchrist Not my fault if Asriel is the long lost brother of Sue Sakamoto...
2:37 PM
@ShadowWizard Just our resident friendly flower.
Has anyone actually ever asked why stack exchange still allows for external images hosts in posts/chat?
(where external means anything but stack.imgur)
@Derpy yes, here
2:53 PM
@rene Thanks. Was searching for "disable external image providers". Found nothing. Must be blind.
@Derpy I borrowed @Bart's glasses to find it ...
I love the pings ... I hope he does as well...
My headphones ran out of battery. I hear nozzink
@Bart Try not sticking the pen so far up your nostrils.
But I like how it tickles my brain
Should I be worried that the more the time passes, the more I am starting to think of @Bart as someone pretty close to Uncle Grandpa?
3:15 PM
Uncle != Grandpa
@Telkitty That varies by family.
eww ...
Uncle Grandpa is an American animated television series created by Peter Browngardt for Cartoon Network that premiered on the network on September 2, 2013. The series is based on Browngardt's animated short of the same name from The Cartoonstitute. Uncle Grandpa is also a spin-off of Secret Mountain Fort Awesome, which was in turn a spin-off of the Cartoonstitute short. It is produced by Cartoon Network Studios. The show is a surreal action-adventure comedy that relies extensively on visual gags and catchphrases. Creator Pete Browngardt has cited the work of cartoonists Don Martin, Gary Larson...
not a big fan, but lately our local tv stations seems to only buy cartoon-network shows.
And.... this is a problem if you prefer anime instead.
@bjb568 so you say @rene is not case sensitive? Or, not sensitive to case?
I dunno.
3:21 PM
me Too
@ShadowWizard A Rene by any other case is still a flower
but a different flower
> Uncle Grandpa has a large rectangular shaped head, a brown horseshoe moustache, pink nose, a red fanny pack that talks, a propeller hat, and an outfit consisting of a white t-shirt, lederhosen with rainbow suspenders, knee high tube socks, and black slippers. His outward appearance is depicted as rather clownish and unsophisticated, but he is well-meaning, fun-loving, supportive, and surprisingly competent when need be. His catchphrase is "Good morning!"
Beware, I live
3:30 PM
@tchrist hypothetically, if I take grey hound from L.A. to NY, which national parks or nature attractions can I stop by to visit?
close to the route of course
I don't know what routes are available.
routes not set, but not too close to the north because that would be cold given spring
There are lots, and lots and lots and lots, of places west of the Mississippi. East of it, not so much.
If you wait a little, you can go south and visit the great wall of America
3:33 PM
only if trump gets elected, which is uncertain ...
also wall building is not instant
@Bart No no no: the ʍall of america is in the north not the south.
building continuation of malls between the U.S. and Mexico? what an awesome idea! @tchrist, you rock!
4:21 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in body: Indefinite article with uncountable nouns by S Jay on english.stackexchange.com
4:48 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Did Sakura lose her virginity to Kakashi? by Albert Smith on anime.stackexchange.com
5:51 PM
@SmokeDetector Why?
@tchrist Title - Position 30-31: 🌍
What's wrong with it?
it is an charcter in the non-latin range on a latin site?
6:08 PM
!!/test 🌍
> Bad character in title
Title - Position 1-2: 🌍
!!/test ☺
> Bad character in title
Title - Position 1-2: ☺
!!/test א
> Mostly non-latin body, mostly non-latin title
Title - Text contains 1 non-Latin characters out of 1
Post - Text contains 1 non-Latin characters out of 1
6:09 PM
Looks like any non English character will trigger Smokey
@SmokeDetector fpu
@ShadowWizard Registered question as false positive and whitelisted user.
6:41 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in answer: Notation in partial differentiation by GOKUL NAIR on math.stackexchange.com
6:55 PM
sd f
Alexa on stackoverflow.com: alexa.com/siteinfo/stackoverflow.com 64th most popular site in the US (global rank of 49), most links seem to come from youtube (?) and AWS (makes sense), it's in the top quartile of all sites in terms of loading speed, and we get more than our fair share of college graduates
Most popular searches that land people here are "favicon size", "git checkout remote branch", "facebook debugger", "jquery checkbox checked", and "unsupported major.minor version 52.0"
Now why does youtube send people here?
Guess where it links to... (source page)
7:16 PM
plus one for the hand-drawn red circle.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Phone number detected in body, phone number detected in title: How To Change Dropbox Email? Dial 1(888) 811 4532 by stefen sons on superuser.com
Slow week on SO?
traffic seems declining a bit, but this week's an underperforming outlier for me in particular. I'm going to have go out there and start answering real new questions like everyone else! Harumph.
And that's interesting that my week is so down because I just put up a github.io page pointing to a lot of the questions I've answered here (I didn't point directly to my answers...)
Hey, it's ok to link to my site like I do in my profile, right?
@AaronHall yes, it is
Don't link to your own site from posts though, that is considered spam
But you'll get notified here by Smokey if you do ;)
7:38 PM
@AaronHall yay!
@rene nope, he won't report users with more than 200 rep
I'll push a change to report users < 200 rep and @AaronHall
@tchrist It's in \p{Block=EnclosedAlphanumerics}|\p{Block=Cherokee}|\p{Block=Georgian}|\p{Block=‌​MiscellaneousSymbols}|\p{Block=MiscellaneousSymbolsAndPictographs}. That list might need adjusting, but the check is only on for titles, and those symbols are very rare in legitimate titles.
7:42 PM
Why are you using a|b|c|d instead of [abcd] ?
@hichris123 but what about ☺? That's just a basic ASCII symbol...
If you think the python regex compiler is going to optimize that for you, hahahahaha
@tchrist Don't ask me, not my fault. :P Not sure; does it matter a lot?
@hichris123 Probably not.
@ShadowWizard beg yer pardon mate?
uniprops -ga ☺
    \pS \p{So}
    All Any Assigned InMiscellaneousSymbols Common Zyyy So S Graph Miscellaneous_Symbols Other_Symbol Pat_Syn Pattern_Syntax PatSyn Print Symbol
    Bidi_Class=ON Bidi_Class=Other_Neutral BC=ON Block=Miscellaneous_Symbols Script=Common East_Asian_Width=Neutral General_Category=Other_Symbol GC=So General_Category=S General_Category=Symbol
       General_Category=So GC=S Line_Break=AL Line_Break=Alphabetic LB=AL SC=Zyyy Script=Zyyy
Block=Miscellaneous_Symbols != Block=ASCII
But ’tis Common, aye.
@ShadowWizard just don't make fun about unicode ... you see what happens
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