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4:00 AM
@Mark: not yet. Soon, maybe.
 
@MarkElliot Yeah...
 
@TylerChacha too much chatting :-)
 
I was kind of underwhelmed by the 10k tools
 
@Josh Nah, just lost interest
There are only so many times you can tell a PHP user why they are getting a headers already sent error..
 
So yeah. In case anyone wasn't paying attention earlier, VOTE GORTOK!
 
4:00 AM
@TylerChacha LOL, this is true
 
I see php mentioned, and I automatically shudder
 
@RebeccaChernoff funny, I have the same reaction when I see rchern mentioned (:
 
@TylerChacha indeed, +20 just now for that
 
burn ):
 
goes to unplug his disposal
 
4:01 AM
oy
 
Nobody star that, @JeffAtwood is watching!
3
 
part of this acceleration may be due to my willingness to look at php questions again
 
@YiJiang I guess we'll just delete all votes that occurred before official start of election
 
@JeffAtwood Can we vote to ban the PHP tag? Please?
 
is it me, or is this spam?
0
Q: small scale tracking system using Java

Jenny The system must be able to accept trace data for a package as a series of tracking points The system must allow the user to query the registered trace data based on package id and tracking point id The query result on a package id must contain information on the tracking points visited The quer...

 
4:02 AM
I just want it to die...
 
@JeffAtwood spoil-sport.
 
@TylerChacha Maybe we vote to ban you while we're at it! Then the tavern will be mine, alllll miiine!
 
@TylerChacha that's probably a bad decision from a commercial standpoint, gotta imagine php tags drive a lot of traffic
 
NEVAH!!!!!
 
And with no PHP questions I'll be free to chat all day! oh, wait... I already do :-)
 
4:04 AM
@Mark: not spam. Confused, yes.
 
@MarkElliot I'm not sure what that is...
 
5
Q: New Meta Search Engine - Help us test!

Nick CraverFor a few reasons, we are changing the guts of how search works on our sites. If you keep up, you've probably read somewhere that we are (or were, rather) using SQL Server Full Text Search. There are a few areas that utilize search: Search itself (box in the upper right) Related Questions (to...

 
@JeffAtwood oh, new toys!
 
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/search?q=%22list+of+x%22 <-- definitely better
 
Seems faster @Jeff!
 
4:06 AM
lucene rocks
 
Maybe that's just my imagination but
No, I think it's almost instantaneous
 
whoa, I can see that tomorrow I'm gonna need a crash course in Lucene and searching. Somebody remind/enlighten me?
But not tonight, too many other things :\
 
type words.. press enter..
 
LOL
 
have you ever worked with anything ... high tech
 
4:07 AM
Dammit, I really need balpharc to give me an "oy" action.
 
if we are considering typing words and pressing enter 'high tech' ... something has gone in the crapper..
 
@JeffAtwood are you poking fun at me or something else?
 
@drachenstern I think you. Feel honored :-)
 
but but but but ... we need a massively better search engine at work, so if that's Lucene and I need to learn about it ... I am too busy doing other things atm so tomorrow I will learn about it
 
4:09 AM
have a video of Rock Hard Awesome.. rocking
 
@JeffAtwood wow, he's getting big dude
I remember when you started his twitter account
 
@JeffAtwood that is great
 
@YiJiang did you ever get the scores loaded into the scoresheet?
 
Good tea. Nice house.
 
Man, I was just wishing for a body: search operator earlier today... And now, I still am.
 
4:13 AM
So far so good @Jeff, I cannot break search and I think it is definitely faster, and I think the results are at least as relevant as before, if not moreso
I would love to try it on SO, I am not able to think of great examples to search for on meta at the moment
I do find myself using Google to search StackOverflow sometimes, maybe this will end that practice
 
I like Google Chrome
it is simply awesome
 
Chrome needs to fix its text selection. But other than that, yes, bees knees.
 
Chrome is the only browser I use... ...for chat...
 
A few test searches seem to show substantial improvement. Who knows, I might not have to visit google just to find dupes.
 
I also want Google Toolbar in Chrome. Nobody else seems to think that's a reasonable request... but I do.
 
4:17 AM
@drachenstern Yes, api.programmers.stackexchange.com/1.0/questions/39586 now shows +1 upvotes
 
@MichaelPetrotta wait, why?
 
I rather meant into the one that Dan's hosting
 
@rockhardawesome +1 Bugs do rule.
 
@Mark: search. click through a few pages. click a search term on the toolbar to jump right to an instance of that term in the text.
 
@drachenstern Oh, erhm... still slightly busy, sorry
 
4:19 AM
there are plugins to do something like that... but not really.
 
@MichaelPetrotta but isn't the address bar fundamentally that?
 
@YiJiang I understand, I'm a little tied up here too
 
@Pollyanna they certainly seem to rule my life, LOL
 
@Josh sorry got busy here.
 
@Mark: nope. Once you've navigated to a page, the search terms disappear from the address bar.
 
4:19 AM
@Moshe no problem, I was busy here also
 
I want them to stay, so I can click on them to find stuff.
 
@MichaelPetrotta - you stil here?
 
otherwise, I'm retyping them.
 
@MichaelPetrotta now I see what you're talking about -- I suppose operationally I ctrl-f that problem away, but I understand the desire not to have to do that
 
Guess so.
 
4:20 AM
Ctrl-F, no problem. Retyping a potentially-long term, problem.
 
@MichaelPetrotta - my dope wars clone for iOS is nearly done.
 
But, I survive.
@Moshe: Gonna publish it?
 
@Moshe I knew it!
 
@MichaelPetrotta - I plan to.
@Pollyanna - what's the surprise? I was clear about what I was working on.
 
I am having a difficult time deciding on #2 and #3 votes on ServerFault!
 
4:22 AM
@Moshe: I'm impressed by the no-$20-million-dollar-budget-required-to-succeed aspect of the app store. Good luck.
 
@Josh surely they're not down to the election proper are they?
 
@MichaelPetrotta thanks.
 
@Moshe I'm not saying you hid anything, but when you were describing it to me you didn't mention the connection, but the way you described it reminded me of it.
 
@drachenstern they sure are
 
oh damn
 
4:23 AM
Tow hall was this evening
@drachenstern Only 7 candidates
 
I see
 
I considered running but I never would have won, and probably lack the time anyway
 
Oh, maybe I was not explicit, but yea, that's the project.
 
Oh, guess I ought to go over there and cast random votes (What, I'm American, it's what I do...)
 
Plus they have great candidates as is
@Pollyanna LOL
 
4:24 AM
@Pollyanna: vote for the tallest candidate then, or the prettiest.
 
If anyone wants to cast non random votes...
 
@MichaelPetrotta omg the Chrome text selection is so wonky, THANK YOU, you're the only other person I've ever met to notice that
 
4
Q: 2011 Moderator Elections - Town Hall Chat

Rebecca ChernoffIn connection with the moderator elections, we will be holding a Town Hall Chat session with the candidates. This will be an opportunity for members of the community to pose questions to the candidates on the topic of moderation. Participation is completely voluntary. I am working with the can...

 
@Jeff: yep. Hits me hardest in question editing. Annoying. Drop back to FF sometimes for that.
 
@RebeccaChernoff's summary is excellent, I am reading it now
@JeffAtwood it frustrates me at times too
 
4:25 AM
@Jeff - you know I was having some issues copying text in chat in safari on Mac, but @Rebecca was a no repro.
 
normally the times I try and select text...
@Moshe Some parts of the site(s) seem to observe Command-C on Mac
 
I'm writing in "Donald Knuth" for my first, second and third election choices. I'm sure he'll do a fine job at serverfault.
 
I think answering does maybe? Forgot now
 
@JeffAtwood what are you two on aboot? I've probably noticed it and never realized I noticed it
 
@Josh yes, but not the tavern.
 
4:26 AM
@drachenstern did you just turn Canadian?
 
Haha
 
I knew I was in trouble when I met John Resig and I was like "I love Chrome but the text selection issues drive me crazy" and he had no idea what I meant
I just shut up at that point
 
@Josh I've been Candian, mate ;)
 
@drachenstern really? How did I miss that?
 
What's wrong with selecting text? |:
 
4:27 AM
@Josh the joke was mate is considered australian slang
 
@RebeccaChernoff Chrome does it wrong
 
my profee proudly proclaims where I live
protip: far from .ca
 
@drachenstern: For me, its: click in a section of text. Drag up, and to the left, to select to the beginning of a line. BUT DON'T DRAG OFF THE TEXTBOX, cause then your selection goes away, and isn't that what you wanted?
 
@drachenstern and I thought you were from there :-)
 
@MichaelPetrotta wait, lemme repeat:
 
4:28 AM
Unlike any other text editing environment I've ever used.
 
in a textbox, start at the end, then drag up and left
but don't leave the textbox
Ok, check, highlights my text
what's the catch? To drag from within the textbox to OUT of the textbox?
 
I was being colorful in my description.
Don't drag off the textbox, and everything works.
Drag off, and the selection disappears.
 
@MichaelPetrotta We used to have this problem with my company's product. Drove me crazy because it was a bug inherent to Adobe Flash which we're forced to use
Adobe finally fixed it some 5 months ago, yey
 
@drachenstern: or rather, the selection changes to something you don't want.
 
I don't repeat that on this page
I'll try it on the site
 
4:30 AM
@Josh can we continue our earlier convo in google chat?
 
@drachenstern If you want to select, for instance, a large chunk of text in a scrolling text box, then you can start your selection in the middle, but if you go outside the box (to force it to scroll during the selection) it figures you didn't actually want to select anything after all.
 
@drachenstern: Try a SO question edit box. That's where I see it the most.
 
@MichaelPetrotta I'll do that
 
Does that work with google chat?
 
@Pollyanna: YES. It feels good to hear it from someone else.
 
4:31 AM
hmmmm
 
Uhh, so I type text in the textarea down here, I clicked at the end, and dragged up and to the left, and my text is still highlighted once my mouse exits the textarea. Same with the ask question text area...
 
@Moshe yup. It's XMPP
 
I can make it invert the selection, but not make it nullify the selection
 
@Rebecca: try SO textboxes.
 
@Moshe or we can try the other way, sec
 
4:31 AM
@RebeccaChernoff drag the mouse below the top of the textbox and to the left
 
@MichaelPetrotta such as the body of a question on the ask question page like I just mentioned? (:
 
@drachenstern: yes, that's what I meant, if "invert" means "select from the insertion point to some point below".
 
highlight from the first <soap up and to the left
 
@RebeccaChernoff I froze the SF chat town hall room just in case
 
4:32 AM
@MichaelPetrotta yes, that's what I mean
 
I guess I don't know your gmail address @Moshe :-) send me an email or post your IM name here temporarilly
 
@JeffAtwood 10-4. I thought about doing that, but I was worried it would affect whether people could see the transcript. Hadn't tested it yet.
 
@RebeccaChernoff: things fly by here so fast, some things my little brain misses.
 
Aim: first four letters Of f and l name.
 
@Rebecca: not sure what to tell you. Selection in the chat box works fine for me, but SO ask and edit boxes don't.
 
4:34 AM
Does AIM work @Josh?
 
what's your last name then? :p
 
@Moshe Works fine also, I'm easy. My SN is hmblprogrammer
 
Oh it's in my profile.
 
@drachenstern I thought I knew, but I guess I misspelled it :-)
 
@Michael - Bad news. I can no longer replicate the problem. Can reproduce it, and if so what version of chrome are you using?
 
4:36 AM
Hmm. Actually, as I play around, I can only reproduce it on SE. Not chat, not gmail. Limited testing, yes.
@Pollyanna: 8.0.552.237.
 
Ah. I'm on 9.0.597.67 or similar, and it's reporting that there's an even newer version out. As far as I can tell the text selection problem I recall is fixed.
 
I can reproduce on gmail (Google Chrome 8.0.552.237 (Official Build 70801))
 
Will try on 9, which I assume is beta. How do I change Chrome channels again? Not a webdev, here...
 
I'm not getting a problem on gmail with 9 either. Although I must admit it renders a bit funny during a selection scroll.
@MichaelPetrotta I don't know. I have it on here in the vain hopes that it'll fix the few remaining problems and I can switch. Unfortunately firefox is now touting better sandboxing so flash, pdf, and other content won't freeze FF now.
 
Nope, still repro in Chrome 9.
@Pollyanna: oh, that'd be nice. Why "unfortunately"? Good browsers are... good!
 
4:43 AM
well @JeffAtwood apparently you need to upgrade your Chrome
Yay having a personal staff of dedicated testing monkeys to isolate a problem and eradicate it ;)
 
@drachenstern: Um... one vote here for not fixed in Chrome 9...
 
oh I thought Polly said he couldn't repro
 
He can't. I can, fwiw.
 
oooh, :\
 
@MichaelPetrotta If you can give me the steps to reproduce the error I might have better luck seeing what you're seeing.
Aw man. The lucene giveth, and the lucene taketh away (deleted:1 was edited out of Nick's post.)
 
4:48 AM
@Pollyanna: So, I'm starting from an edit page on SO. Say, stackoverflow.com/posts/4801456/edit. Place the mouse pointer just after the word "class". Press the mouse button down. Drag the mouse up, and to the left. While the pointer is still in the textbox, observe that the text is selected appropriately (extends to follow the pointer). Now, exit the textbox to the left (not above).
Observe (maybe) the text selection invert - that is, text is selected from the original selection point (after the word "class") to the end of the text in the textbox.
I hope that made sense.
 
@MichaelPetrotta Yep, I see what you're saying.
 
I can see that exiting the textbox to the left is key. Exiting above, and you're ok.
 
I can understand why it does this - it has to do with how the page elements are ordered.
 
yep, that's what I was thinking immediately
 
...go on...
 
4:52 AM
It attempts to select from the beginning element (where you started selecting) to the end element (where the mouse is currently).
Unfortunately, the DOM is likely arranged such that the content to the left of the box occurs after the text box.
However, it should be pointed out that this behavior is vastly different than, for instance, firefox.
 
stupid new mouse with easy-to-press-inadvertently back and forward buttons...
 
When you go to the left or right side of the text box, it doesn't select all the elements inbetween, it treats it as though you are merely at the left or right extremity of the box.
This makes it trivially easy to select whole lines of material.
Which is a lot of the type of editing I do. It's painful to try and select right at the beginning of a paragraph.
 
@Pollyanna: again, good to hear the voices in my head from someone else. or bad, maybe.
 
behold the mouse of the gods .. the Logitech G9.
 
4:57 AM
Notice anything off about that mouse?
 
ooooh shiny
 
The nav buttons are on the left.
 
@JeffAtwood What, no spinners?
 
@JeffAtwood wait the gods don't go cordless?
 
Stupid right-handed world. Couldn't find a good ambi mouse to save my life yesterday.
 
4:59 AM
@Josh Wireless latency is too high for twitch <strike>gamers</strike> programmers.
 
Ah, yes, point taken
 
5:15 AM
wireless doesn't really seem useful on keyboard and mouse.. I have problems with my mouse cord like 2x per year
(for laptops it's great of course)
 
I broke my mouse's scroll wheel recently. Turns out, scroll wheels are really useful, and I deserve my punishment for taking them for granted
 
i keep a spare mouse just for that reason :\
literally on the top of my desk :\
I should be nicer to my mice
 
Here's an idea:
1. Unplug mouse.
2. Put mouse in drawer.
3. Rejoice.
 
lol, keyboard queen speaks again!
3
hey I can navigate my entire build environment sans mouse
 
@drachenstern HAHA
Ok, I'm off guys, take it easy
 
5:24 AM
night
 
can haz stars agen
 
I see a pretty flag here. Want it?
 
@drachenstern imagines that sung to the tune of 'Dancing Queen'
 
No thanks @MichaelPetrotta.
 
@Yi Jiang: dammit, with that song in my head now.
 
5:30 AM
@Michael If your flag is green and is $2 I'll trade you. For a copy of Nippon.
 
@MichaelPetrotta That's it; you're changing your name
Michael Myers too; I'll talk to him later
 
@MichaelMrozek sorry!
 
@Moshe I blame those two, for stealing my name. The nerve of some people
 
Although my offer still stands.
You too can purchase your very own copy of Nippon in an Apple App Store near you. </tedwilliams:voice>
 
Poor Tad...
 
5:33 AM
@Moshe This is the game you wrote?
 
Yes. It's almost done.
I finished the logic and the iPhone ui tonight. iPad ui hopefully tomorrow.
Although i seem to need a better instructions view. Those unaffiliated withthe original might be lost as is.
 
I'm the only Michael in my group, but we're on the verge of getting three Brians.
 
Wow. Moshe is a common name here.
@MichaelPetrotta - wait. You dont consider MSO to be your "group"?
 
You pay me money?
 
'morning' all
 
5:37 AM
Also, why 3? Order from Woot or something?
 
@balpha, I take it that means you liked it? :)
 
@Benjol it is indeed morning, but barely. I'm off to bed.
 
'night' then :)
 
@MichealP nope.
 
To be fair, one spells his name a little different.
 
5:37 AM
@Benjol thanks.
 
@Moshe: then no.
 
</longday>
 
All due respect, yada yada
 
@michealp Ok. Well pull an @Rebecca and work for SO.
No offense taken, of course.
</liesaboutloggingoff>Rreally! Good {time of day}
 
iPad chat client is surprisingly usable.
 
5:40 AM
I'm on iPhone.
 
uh, huh?
 
@YiJiang you mentioned you were able to vote for a candidate on programmers?
even though we are in the primary?
 
programmers is still in the nomination phase
 
@GeoffDalgas Eh, I was able to vote for a candidate like it was in the Primary, even though it's still in nomination stage
I spoofed the ajax vote request to /posts/{id}/vote/2, and was able to confirm that the vote registered through both the returned data and the API
 
ok, wanted to determine the details
 
5:46 AM
Is it just me or are votes so far on SO almost directly proportional to rep?
 
@Benjol Is it? Hmmm... I can check for that, hang on
 
With the emphasis on almost, I haven't checked everyone, but it seems to be in that general direction.
 
That's probably what you'd expect.
You'd hope that not too many people are influenced solely by rep, but generally, the higher-rep users have demonstrated their worth.
 
@MichaelPetrotta It's your fault I wasted the last half hour creating a screencast demonstrating the wrongness of Chrome's selection behavior.
 
:-)
I live to make lives difficult.
What will you do with that screencast? Submit it to Google?
 
5:51 AM
@Pollyanna I support these activities
6
A: IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!! (elections available only to high rep users)

Jeff AtwoodIn practice, what tends to happen in the election is that high reputation users generally win over lower reputation users. I'm not saying it's right, but it is what we have observed to happen, multiple times. Some statistics from the Stack Overflow moderator election results Just as I went...

 
$('[id^=post-]').each(function(){
     var t = $(this),
         reps = t.find('.reputation-score').attr('title').match(/\d+/)[0];
     console.log(t.find('.user-details a').text() + ' ' + (reps / t.find('.vote-count-post').text()).toFixed(2));
});
This will get you the ratio for reps divided by votes
 
@JeffAtwood There are some notable exceptions, still 'processing' the data though
 
Or... no, it should be other way around
 
@MichaelPetrotta @JeffAtwood For your amusement:
 
I think @MichaelMrozek is the lowest-rep user I voted for, but I'm considering withdrawing that vote now, to strengthen my hand in our name wars.
 
5:54 AM
bmargulies 1.69
Rook -6.05
Robert Harvey 4.14
Peter Lawrey -2.09
DeadMG -3.78
Chris Jester-Young 0.39
karim79 0.97
Lennart Regebro 0.33
Brad Larson 3.45
Lasse V. Karlsen 3.09
Martin York 0.34
Kev 5.59
Michael Mrozek 12.52
Joshua Nozzi -1.23
Jacob Relkin 1.18
Tim Post 13.03
The MYYN -0.25
George Stocker 5.68
Paul Dixon 1.87
codaddict 0.41
Gordon 0.30
ennuikiller -2.00
Justin 'jjnguy' Nelson 7.10
David Thomas -2.85
SLaks 2.00
casperOne 0.84
Mitchel Sellers -0.40
jAndy -0.62
Dave DeLong 2.01
Matt Ball -2.08
 
@MichaelPetrotta, nooo
 
(Votes / reps) * 1000
 
@YiJiang, yeah, it's not as clear cut as all that
 
"This is wrong. Wrongity wrong wrong"
Nicely done, @Pollyanna.
 
@Benjol Well of course not, but then the script can't really detect trends
 
5:55 AM
thanks.
 
Maybe if I plot it on a graph instead...
 
that's if you order by rep, then plot votes
 
@Benjol Scatter, not line graph please
 
Now send it forth to the reddits and facebooks and slashdots and twits my minions!
 
5:56 AM
@YiJiang, with lines joining the points, or not?
 
@Benjol No need for that I think
 
@YiJiang what does this mean exactly? looks kinda ... eh
 
3 mins ago, by Yi Jiang
(Votes / reps) * 1000
 
For your twittering pleasure:
 
I love Chrome but its broken text selection behavior drives me BONKERS. Please fix! http://goo.gl/Kmg6J
 
5:57 AM
Google's Chrome fails at selection in textboxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4_fhbNTBw #chrome #google #fail
 
I WIN!
 
Aw!
 
yes but what does it MEAN?
 
@Pollyanna I am buying you a new USB headset
 
Fine, I owe you one package of cookies.
 
5:58 AM
way too much white noise in your audio
 
hehehe
 
@drachenstern Trying to find a correlation between reps and people's votes, just that
 
you should hire a statistician
 
seriously, email me your mailing address.. I want to thank you for documenting this craziness.. just mail it to team@stackoverflow.com
 
I hear there's probably someone on math.SE that could help
 
5:59 AM
Go post on Cross Validated :P
 
Hey, I won't pass that up.
 

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