Tavern on the Meta

ChrisF

12:00 PM

@badp Oh you want me to link to the question on Programmers'

Dan Grossman

I also have an urge to find a hotel with whirlpool tubs in the rooms

badp

@ChrisF No, I thought you were still talking about the old bad question heuristics

Nyuszika7H

status-1-00AM--Europe-CET

ChrisF

@badp Sorry - I moved on ;)

Dan Grossman

I like my dynamic images.

ChrisF

12:01 PM

I'm beginning to hate VS2010.

Benjol

@Dan, where are you, because your activity graph looks like Jeff's, are you a vampire too?

ChrisF

Random crashes, spurious out of memory errors.

Dan Grossman

@Benjol Pennsylvania, it's 7AM here and I haven't gone to sleep yet

ChrisF

It's even worse as I'm having to use LogMeIn at the moment

Nyuszika7H

Benjol

12:04 PM

@DanGrossman You are a vampire. stakes? - check!, garlic? - check!

Nyuszika7H

Try hosting it on various image hosting services. :P

Dan Grossman

I am awake 24 hours a day, no fear of sunlight here

Benjol

How long has Jeff's "about" been "benevolent dictator for life"? :)

Dan Grossman

12:56 PM

translate.google.com/#en|ja|I+HATE+YOU

:very confused:

Yi Jiang

@DanGrossman wth?

"I have to use your Facebook"?

HATE is a acronym for a Facebook product?

Dan Grossman

It has to be abuse of the "suggest a translation" feature... googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/suggest-better-translation.html

...if that exists for Japanese, since it's not in that last

also WTF, I had no idea it was snowing like crazy outside while I'm sitting here

Benjol

Rep farming already started? (see user names)

0

Q: Proposed Edits - side by side view incorrect

The side by side view for the proposed edits is incorrect / misleading. This implies that the proposed edit by adam.pugsley is on the right hand side when in actual fact it is on the left hand side. This is the original question And this is the question after the proposed edit.

Dan Grossman

weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/19422

looks like it will snow nonstop for the next 24 hours

glad I bought a new loaf of bread yesterday

I just asked my first question on any non-meta site

Yi Jiang

The cats that roam across my school has a Facebook fan page! Hehehe

Dan Grossman

1:09 PM

tombull89

man-o-man, I thought my recent capctha's were bad

Yi Jiang

@DanGrossman Can you see the images you're uploading? I can't, they're returning 503 for me

Dan Grossman

Yes, I see them, I'm using the upload... button

ChrisF

I can see them too

tombull89

for the record, I can as well.

Yi Jiang

1:11 PM

That is very weird - I also can't see this image I just uploaded

Dan Grossman

VoxCAST is a CDN, it must be that the edge servers you're hitting are showing the error while the ones we're hitting are working.

tombull89

I'm in the UK...

Dan Grossman

they have servers in singapore while i'm probably getting routed to new york

tom's probably hitting netherlands

Yi Jiang

Mmhmm... indeed. A CDN in Singapore, fancy that

Dan Grossman

The new apple.com on the ipad

Yi Jiang

1:17 PM

@DanGrossman Hmm.. I can see that image. The CDN's rerouted, or came back up again I guess

Tim Stone

@DanGrossman Thank you ten billion times. Your assistance in our plot for world conquest is no longer required, so we've turned off site navigation. Please sit silently by your iPad and await further instructions.

2

Dan Grossman

:lol:

Reno

im sure that apple did some internal downloading (about 4-5 billion apps) in the name of testing

Nyuszika7H

Hi again!

Reno

oh and @YiJiang im thinking of coming to singapore to do some shopping

Nyuszika7H

1:22 PM

Where can I read about that new edit system? It seems now I can edit anything, but if it isn't CW, the edit should be first reviewed.

Yi Jiang

@Nyuszika7H Check the [suggested-edit] tag on MSO

Tim Stone

@YiJiang +s

(for some reason)

Also, who broke MSO?

Yi Jiang

@TimStone Yeah, noticed that too. Probably deployment again

Tim Stone

There's been 8 deployments today? :o

Yi Jiang

Likely to be Nick there adding stuff to the new search function

Tim Stone

1:28 PM

Ah yeah, I saw that when I randomly woke up at 3 last night.

Yi Jiang

I think it was wise to add him to the Wheel of Blame

Tim Stone

Good call, yes.

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang nothing

Yi Jiang

@Nyuszika7H Yeah, it's [suggested-edits], sorry

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang nice :)

Reno

1:32 PM

mmm blueberry juice

Dan Grossman

Yes! My e-mail was chosen to win $630,518 as soon as I fax the prince my bank information for processing!

shakes head

Hi hi

Hai hai!

Hi, should we be concerned that the top 3 voted moderators in the primary moderator elections are pretty much .NET/C#/ASP specialists? I understand that SO is slanted towards these areas, but do we risk having unbalanced representation due to a 'first past the post' effect?

Yi Jiang

1:47 PM

@willjcroz Well, it's only the Primary stage right now - the votes do not entirely represent how the final stage will turn out

Also, last I check, @MichaelMrozek (who is in third place right now) doesn't work with the Microsoft stack

willjcroz

Yi, OK, I see the votes are changing things around rather quickly!

Yi Jiang

@willjcroz se.awio.com/election.html sort by Primary Votes

willjcroz

@YiJiang : thanks for that link :-)

nice use of the API ;-)

Yi Jiang

Hmmm... @MichaelMrozek fell back two spots after jjnguy and Lasse V. Karlsen both now has 299 votes and overtook him

Fosco

Beautiful job @YiJiang

Tim Post was all worried... he's doing pretty awesome.

Reno

1:55 PM

why are people giving negative votes

Dan Grossman

I don't want this person to be a moderator

Fosco

why not?

Yi Jiang

@Reno Because they really doesn't want that candidate to move on to the next stage?

ChrisF

@Reno Because they don't think the candidate would make a good moderator

Reno

well then instead of focusing on who shouldnt be a mod, they should focus on who should be one

Yi Jiang

1:57 PM

@Reno That's for the final stage

Josh

Good morning everyone!

Yi Jiang

The Primary stage is meant to whittle down the options

Reno

hey Josh

Josh

How are you @Reno?

Reno

*blows nose* ok i guess

willjcroz

1:58 PM

@YiJiang: if you are looking for further ideas (??!!), I was thinking that a page that compares the overall SO tag statistics with a (user selected) set of candidates aggregate tag statistics. That way we could see how well the current leaders (or indeed all candidates) represent the overall areas of SO users' interest.

Yi Jiang

@willjcroz Sounds interesting, can you expand on that a bit?

Reno

like this guy .. i mean he is alright

willjcroz

@YiJiang : maybe a graph (normalised histogram?) that compares the top 20 tag occurences on SO with how they are represented by a set of the moderator candidates

Reno

those -5 votes are from other mod wannabes :(

Fosco

you don't know that..

Yi Jiang

2:01 PM

@Reno Sorry, can you say who that is? imgur's Singapore CDN is down apparently

willjcroz

@YiJiang: oops, I'll try again

Reno

The MYYN, Leipzig, Germany

19.9k 3 15 41

python php django java javascript ruby jquery

Tim Stone

@Josh 'Ello

Josh

Hey @Tim, how goes?

@Reno -1, nearly no meta participation

Reno

anyway if its true , wannabe mods who are downvoting other hopefuls should never get a chance a being a mod in the first place .. something like a disqualification :P

Josh

2:06 PM

Looks like he withdrew @Reno

willjcroz

@YiJiang: take the top 20 tags on stackoverflow.com/tags and find the aggregate of each of these tags for a given set of candidates (e.g. top 3 or top 5), and then plot the normalised aggregate tag statistics against the top 20 tags' normalised statistics so that we can gauge if there is a big imbalance in representation of technologies

Josh

@Reno Anyone can vote, the votes from the mods pale in comparison to the votes from the masses

Tim Stone

@Josh Not too bad, woke up, decided to play Forza... :P

Yi Jiang

@willjcroz Interesting idea, hmmm... but the data explorer might be better for this

Josh

@TimStone Sweet

willjcroz

2:08 PM

@YiJiang: I did not know about that, I'll take a look now

Reno

@Josh crowd behavior is pretty different from individual behavior ... or so i read somewhere

Yi Jiang

I'm not sure how one might be able to visualize that data

3 axis - one for tag, one for candidate, and one for activity, perhaps

Josh

@Reno TRue. Have to make a call, we can discuss after :-)

Tim Stone

@Josh Yeah, I guess I should do work soon though, heh.

Yi Jiang

@Reno You've read the herd behavior influencing voting question on MSO?

badp

2:11 PM

@YiJiang Are you sure you didn't forget a clear: left rule for #userList .primary?

Josh

@TimStone Yeah I need to, yesterday was taken up almost completely doing estimates and other busywork, yuk

Reno

nope i have not , brb

Tim Stone

Thankfully it's already/only Wednesday eh? ;)

Yi Jiang

@badp Can you post a image to what you see?

badp

Yi Jiang

2:13 PM

@badp ctrl + f5?

badp

@YiJiang No change

Yi Jiang

@badp Shouldn't happen - that was because at one point earlier today I added a float: left to that element, now that's gone this shouldn't happen, hmmm...

badp

It still loooks broken with float: left

(there's no such rule currently)

Yi Jiang

Hmm, repro'd on Chome, will attempt to fix

willjcroz

@YiJiang: I was thinking of soemthing along the lines of wiki.sfu.ca/summer08/educ894d100-group2/images/d/d2/… where the Y axis is normalised proportion of overall occurences and the markers on the Y axis would be C#, Java... etc Purple bars would be SO overall proportions and Green would be proportion of aggregate occurences for each tag amongst selected set of candidates. If that makes any sense!

oops, reverse my usage of green and purple

badp

2:18 PM

@willjcroz you can edit messages

Yi Jiang

@badp Pushed update, hmmm... let's see if it works

badp

@YiJiang Better :)

Yi Jiang

@willjcroz Well, I don't think that would work, honestly, because SO's tag is more specialized, so a lot of users won't have any activity in some areas

ChrisF

Does anyone have enough rep to vote in the SO elections but less than 1K?

I was wondering if you could see the split votes.

Yi Jiang

@ChrisF There's a MSO question about that, all eligible voters should be able to see split votes after the next deployment

willjcroz

2:22 PM

@YiJiang I see what you mean, but between several candidates the most popular tags should have a fair chance of showing up

ChrisF

Ta

willjcroz

@ChrisF: I cannot see split votes (rep 261 on SO)

Reno

@ChrisF ta ?

ChrisF

@willjcroz Thanks.

@Reno Short for "thanks"

@willjcroz You will after the next deployment though (see @YiJiang's post)

Reno

really ? my ex - gf used to type this .. i never figured what she meant

now it makes sense =\

Yi Jiang

2:24 PM

6

A: Who can split the votes in the primary election

Vote counts for the primary election will be visible for all who have enough reputation to vote after the next deploy.

willjcroz

@Reno 'ta' is a British colloquialism :-)

@ChrisF ta ;-)

LoveMeSomeCode

hey quick meta question: i've created several accounts for various stackexchange sites, all tied to my google openid. so they're all linked, but where do I see a list of those sites?

Yi Jiang

@LoveMeSomeCode Go to your user profile, look under the 'accounts' tab

ChrisF

@LoveMeSomeCode Click on the "accounts" tab in your profile.

LoveMeSomeCode

perfect, thank you

Yi Jiang

2:32 PM

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a scatter or radar chart

Trying to work with Google's chart API here: code.google.com/apis/chart/docs/gallery/radar_charts.html

Or maybe stacked bars should be used

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang Chat API? Not chart API?

Yi Jiang

@Nyuszika7H I never said that ;)

Nyuszika7H

@YiJiang you edited it :P

Yi Jiang

Or maybe a Venn diagram? But it's too complex for a Venn diagram, hmmm...

ChrisF

Voting on candidates is locked in the same was as normal - which I suppose is to be expected. However I've changed my mind about a candidate and want to change my vote. I can't really ask them to edit their election address as that would indicate who I voted for. Hmm..

Yi Jiang

2:43 PM

@ChrisF I don't think votes should be locked, since there really isn't anyway to commit election vote gaming, isn't there?

ChrisF

You'd have to have multiple 150+ accounts to do it

Moshe

Morning

Yi Jiang

@ChrisF Actually, I just tried undoing my vote, and it worked

Moshe

Is it worth putting "jailbreak detection" code in my app?

Yi Jiang

Oh, hang on, it didn't

Nyuszika7H

2:46 PM

@ChrisF Not 200+?

Yi Jiang

Hmmm... that last ajax request must've timed out or something

ChrisF

@Nyuszika7H "Any community member with 150 reputation may vote in the primary."

Fosco

@Moshe Why would you?

Moshe

Antipiracy. Cydia. Installeous.

Yi Jiang

Here's a question - should withdrawn candidates be shown on my elections page?

Benjol

2:48 PM

Anyone noticed that the upvote/downvote ratio is almost linear with votes, but not quite? I'm trying to figure out what that means - that Kev & SLaks are more controversial candidates?

willjcroz

out of interest do users accumulate tag counts for questions/answers they have edited in a moderator capacity? (i.e. not directly involved in asking/answering a question)

Moshe

@YiJiang no. Your page serves a different purpose from the ballot

Benjol

@YiJiang, good question - at the least they should be shown as such

Nyuszika7H

@ChrisF Oh, I didn't read the conversation, I thought you're talking about account linking.

ChrisF

That's OK

Yi Jiang

2:49 PM

@Benjol Yeah, but from a technical perspective moving them to the bottom of the page would be a bit of a pain

Moshe

@Fosco - I don't want jailbroken devices stealing my app.

Benjol

@YiJiang, grey them out a bit.

Moshe

I think they should be removed, the ballot shows the candidates, graying out the irrelevant ones. However, @Yijiang's info page is only relevant to the ones still running.

Fosco

@Moshe What if they are jailbroken and bought it?

has a jailbroken ipad and still buys apps

Don't spend much time fighting piracy.. it's like trying not to star oy's.. impossible.

Nyuszika7H

is leaving for a hour

Fosco

2:56 PM

is going to a meeting

Benjol

is going home!

Yi Jiang

is going to bed

ChrisF

0

Q: I can't undo or change my vote in the primary election phase.

I've cast my votes in both the Stack Overflow and Super User primaries, but I've changed my mind about one of the votes I cast. I tried to revoke the vote but was told that the vote was locked (as is expected as the nominations are effectively answers). If the candidate edits his nomination I c...

feature-request election

Yi Jiang

@ChrisF Technically speaking they are questions - I looked them up using the API

ChrisF

@YiJiang OK - I'll update the question!

Happy now?

Yi Jiang

2:59 PM

Hehehe :P

@ChrisF I think the main point is that that feature was originally designed to prevent system gaming by shifting own answer up in the vote sort order by downvoting everybody else's answer, but since this is an election it is meaningless

ChrisF

Indeed

I also just asked for the period to be relaxed, just in case...

badp

@YiJiang almost, but not entirely unlike. There's no (web) timeline for them

Moshe

@Fosco - actually I wouldn't be detecting jailbreaks. The code looks for a specific modification to the plist file in the binary which enables the piracy. If that exists, it's obviously a "liberated" app.

badp

e.g. stackoverflow.com/posts/4740355/timeline gives 404 with user bar

Tim Stone

@badp No comments for you!

Moshe

3:08 PM

@Fosco - now that you mention it, I could use an iPad tester. Interested? Testers get a promo code when the game goes live.

badp

uh, actually api.stackoverflow.com/questions/4740355 also gives an error message

Moshe

I really need another pair of eyes to test my UI.

Michael Mrozek

@badp You forgot a version. api.stackoverflow.com/1.0/questions/4740355

badp

@MichaelMrozek details.

Reno

and by popular demand here is @PopularDemand

Popular Demand

3:15 PM

@Reno Hi, everybody!</dr-nick>

Was someone actually asking about me or was that just a convenient joke?

Reno

:D the latter

sorry i couldnt help it

Josh

@PopularDemand We're always asking about you!

(Just keep telling yourself that anyway ;-)

Michael Mrozek

@PopularDemand One you've never heard before, I imagine

ChrisF

On an unrelated note, I love that someone has "Popular Demand" as their Meta.SO name. "Closed by Popular Demand" amuses me a little every time I see it.

Josh

LOL

How many times has that been said?

I know I personally have said it before, heh

Tim Stone

3:19 PM

@ChrisF Ah flattery, one of the many weapons in a candidate's arsenal. :P

Michael Mrozek

I thought the close reason was the whole point of his display name, actually

badp

Well, if he does become a mod the possibilities become endless!

Popular Demand

1

A: What is the origin of your SO username?

I don't remember the exact reason, but I know I wanted a meta-ish name for my Meta SO account. And besides, changing your Meta name was the fashionable thing to do at the time. People have asked me if I picked my name just so I could make pages say "Closed by Popular Demand," but that's not it; I...

Josh

@PopularDemand Why did I never know about this question?

Michael Mrozek

@Josh It's a shiny poll question, depressingly asked by a mod candidate. I guess that's how SO rolled in 2008 though

Er. And suddenly I'm logged out of SO

Tim Stone

3:26 PM

in The Bridge on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 6 mins ago, by LessPop_MoreFizz

Change your Amazon password. Now.

2

badp

↑ Don't listen to this guy. He's already got all your passwords anyway.

Popular Demand

@badp @TimStone is @RebeccaChernoff's sockpuppet?

Tim Stone

That's true, I do.

badp

@PopularDemand Dunno, we should try and poke some passwords out of him to be sure

Popular Demand

Thanks to you both. I haven't used Amazon in years, but I did take advantage of that recent half-off gift card offer, so I suppose it is time to change the ol' password.

Reno

3:30 PM

FFUU i forgot my password

Michael Mrozek

@Reno It's ok; sounds like it should be pretty easy to brute-force

badp

@TimStone See? What I pin, others have to star :)

Tim Stone

@badp I should use my @RebeccaChernoff-sockpuppet powers to pin it in here too :P

Reno

and shes here

Tim Stone

...That was pretty good timing.

Reno

3:33 PM

mod = god = omnipresent

Josh

@TimStone mention "@RebeccaChernoff" and "sockpuppet" in the same message and she's bound to appear!

if nothing else, to do her ironing...

Rebecca Chernoff

oy

Tim Stone

@RebeccaChernoff We were being mostly serious this time...well, except Josh, but.

ChrisF

@RebeccaChernoff - see my MSO question:

38 mins ago, by ChrisF

0

Q: I can't undo or change my vote in the primary election phase.

I've cast my votes in both the Stack Overflow and Super User primaries, but I've changed my mind about one of the votes I cast. I tried to revoke the vote but was told that the vote was locked (as is expected as the nominations are effectively answers). If the candidate edits his nomination I c...

feature-request election

Michael Mrozek

I need to stop bringing up feature requests in here; I see them on meta later with tons of upvotes T_T

Tim Stone

3:40 PM

@MichaelMrozek Yeah, you should just tell me directly.

Michael Mrozek

@TimStone I used to demand that @RebeccaChernoff fix everything, but she's learned to just ignore me by now

Rebecca Chernoff

(:

Moshe

Anyone here speak languages other than English? Looking for translators for Nippon.

Tim Stone

@MichaelMrozek If you become mod though, it's her job to talk to you...Well played.

Michael Mrozek

@TimStone I might edit that into my nomination. "Mostly I want to be a mod so @RebeccaChernoff is paid to be my friend"

2

Rebecca Chernoff

3:42 PM

hahaha

Michael Mrozek

I fell quite a bit; apparently my supporters vote early

In other words, I'm apparently the Republican candidate

Tim Stone

That seems like a pretty strong platform

Moshe

Does anyone here speak italian, German, French or Spanish?

Josh

@MichaelMrozek wait what? goes to reverse his vote

Michael Mrozek

@Josh Guess again:

48 mins ago, by ChrisF

0

Q: I can't undo or change my vote in the primary election phase.

I've cast my votes in both the Stack Overflow and Super User primaries, but I've changed my mind about one of the votes I cast. I tried to revoke the vote but was told that the vote was locked (as is expected as the nominations are effectively answers). If the candidate edits his nomination I c...

feature-request election

ChrisF

3:46 PM

@Josh Good luck with that ;)

Tim Stone

Hahahah

Josh

DAMNIT @MichaelMrozek FOR MAKING ME VOTE REPUBLICAN!

Michael Mrozek

Hopefully that's fixed before the town hall, or I may end up regretting some of my early votes quite a bit

Oh, I guess that doesn't happen till the election phase anyway

Josh

@MichaelMrozek it's the same in the final too, I can't change my ServerFAult votes

Tim Stone

@Josh Dude, you voted for the evil candidate, how did you not know? :P

Josh

3:47 PM

@TimStone LOL, true. I voted for Rook also

-250, I think that's the most downvotes I have seen evar

Michael Mrozek

I assumed the intersection of Rook's voters and mine was empty

Tim Stone

I liked the Meta post about it breaking the display

ChrisF

@Josh I'm not sure you should be able to change those. I think in the primary phase it's OK as you're still assessing the candidates.

Tim Stone

@MichaelMrozek Well, votes go both ways.

Josh

@ChrisF I didn't actually want to, I was just trying to for you :-)

Fosco

3:49 PM

@Moshe Sure..

Josh

@MichaelMrozek it looks like you're 3rd, no? That's not bad at all

oh, 4th

still not bad

Michael Mrozek

Yeah, 4th at the moment; 3rd-5th keep shuffling

Josh

Everyone vote @MichaelMrozek!

Michael Mrozek

I'll actually feel pretty bad if I beat jjnguy, I assumed he was going to win by a lot

Josh

You have some tough competition, that's for sure. @LasseVKarlsen is a great candidate also IMHo

@MichaelMrozek yeah he's a great candidate also, I upvoted him

Tim Stone

3:53 PM

0

Q: Why StackOverflow wastes 4 bytes when outputting the Web site?

Everyone who can see the HTML code of the stackoverflow.com site will notice the two empty lines on the top. Was this made intentionally?

html web-development optimization website stackoverflow

... shakes head

Josh

@TimStone facepalm

Michael Mrozek

> This may be because of PHP code before the HTML

...I'm fairly confident PHP is not the cause

badp

2

A: Why StackOverflow wastes 4 bytes when outputting the Web site?

It's actually a watermark. If the HTML source is ever stolen, it will be those two blank lines that will give the perpetrator away.

Tim Stone

Yeah, I had a good chuckle at that one.

Hahahah

Josh

LOL

@MichaelMrozek I just downvoted that, heh

in fact I feel like downvoting everything about this question, LOL

Michael Mrozek

3:56 PM

@Josh It's not as terrible as the answerers acted, it's just a bit silly

Josh

@MichaelMrozek true. Feel free to downvote me to oblivion :-)

Diago

First time ever I enjoyed choosing the close reason

Michael Mrozek

@Josh Nah. Every downvote I cast on your posts is a downvote I can't use on @PopularDemand's posts today

3

Josh

@Diago nice, thanks

@MichaelMrozek HA!

That deserves a star

Michael Mrozek

It's not every day I see people worrying about posts "deserving" a star in here

Transcript for