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00:27
Morning, probably...
Trivia: Gilles and I are tied for the highest ranked user to not have Specialist Hatsman.
Trivia: I'm the only user to have 'Do you even lift?'
Trivia: Nobody has the hat for posting or voting on December 25. Slackers.
Trivia: Nobody has the rep cap 3 days hat, lazy buggers
It's not in a row, but yeah :P
00:44
Apparently I'm 'Literally Hitler' according to my colleagues.
@JamesENL a great painter?
I'm sure that's what they meant
01:06
[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in answer: Find the nth term of a recursive sequence by user298767 on math.stackexchange.com
@JamesENL make them cookies tomorrow and say 'would hitler make everyone cookies?'
Good plan
sd k
01:18
sd k
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps answer: How to find the sum of an alternating series? by mathbitch on math.stackexchange.com
@SmokeDetector tpu-
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: PYTHON DELETING ELEMENTS OF A CLASS by bwolf on stackoverflow.com
@ShadowWizard not ok, i look really bad in all my hats :(
There is no reliable hats for me.
My bathtub fits me perfectly. :P
02:02
@CRABOLO get a new profile image?
hopefully
Still only 3 users with Archimedes...
only 3 4 hats discovered
["007", "Odinson", "Onion Knight", "Hairboat's Revenge", "Archimedes", "Sun Wukong"] is the current list of secret hats.
02:14
... Sun Wukong?
Who's got that one?
-5 + 5 on meta
a few people
@Quill-HATMANIAC Maybe - no Archimedes given for it yet.
the mods probably haven't decided on who discovered it yet
there's a few chatrooms discussing this stuff
There's all sorts of rules about it - Pops would know better than I - but they usually give multiple for separate, concurrent discovery.
02:19
Any diamond moderators around?
waves
hichris is one also. :P
Diamond Moderators. I believe both this question and this one should be closed not just one.
@LiamWilliam Neither hichris nor I are mods on Stack Overflow. (Also, that's something you should be using close votes for, not asking for mods.)
@Doorknob冰 Yes except a mod is why my question was closed(it had a bounty) they are essentially identical questions except they closed my and left the other one open.
I want a justification why.
02:23
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
@LiamWilliam You should ask on meta.stackoverflow.com.
So it's been verified (by me & a few others) who don't have cv privs on SO but have the hat, that flagging works too — Quill - HAT MANIAC 57 secs ago
@Doorknob冰 Chat or as a question?
^ you can get odinson from flagging too
Why do there have to be so many pages of hats. :( If only the leaderboard had a pagesize option.
02:23
@LiamWilliam Post a question on meta.
Does Odinson work if the dupehammer is from a moderator?
0
Q: How to deal with identical questions but only one being closed

WilliamDiamond Moderators and others(my bounty was given back). I believe both this question and this one should be closed not just one. I want a justification and a technique to better help users. I am tired of finding nearly identical questions(which people use as justifications to ask new question...

So it would count if I used it on LH or Health when there is at least one other close-voter?
02:32
waits for the perfect opportunity
Every! Body! Gets! A Hat!
The Onion is awarded to questions on Page 1 of the Hot Network Questions while under 10 points. — Quill - HAT MANIAC 1 min ago
That's my hypothesis
Conclusion : The Jon Skeet hat is forbidden to humans.
yep
yo @mods: this is right, yeah?
02:51
I am disappointed there's no spam flagging hat.
17 mins ago, by Quill - HAT MANIAC
The Onion is awarded to questions on Page 1 of the Hot Network Questions while under 10 points. — Quill - HAT MANIAC 1 min ago
@hichris123 maybe there is... :P
If there was, I think someone in this room would have it. ;)
speaking of, @Undo - smokey still doesn't have a hat.
no review hats, huh..?
[ SmokeDetector ] Chinese character in title, all-caps title, bad keyword in title, phone number detected in title: 【QQ/微信2754595898】办理美国西雅图大学SU毕业证文凭成绩单学历认证使馆认证 by rjvwbesq on apple.stackexchange.com
@CRABOLO thankfully, no
02:55
review is dead if so, probably phasing it out, every question gets a trophy
lol is it good to get a downvote if it gives you a hat?
@CRABOLO odinson...
@hichris123 Oh
Smokey doesn't have any hats
In my server side console getBookDetails is being called before id=1 could even be passed through '/api/book/1'. Why is this happening? Why isn't it synchronous? Should I learn async for this?
That's what she said.
Logging into that account is always fun, though
03:11
2
Q: How do I synchronize my function calls in node js?

SheHere's my routes.js app.route('/api/book/:id') .get(function(req,res){ var id=req.params.id; bookapi.getBookDetails(id,res); }); and here's the function it calls scope.getBookDetails=function(bookId,res){ console.log('unnecessary thing@@'); //va...

SO just got the everyone gets a hat hat
Also,
I'm scared of this place because I've been bullied for asking some pretty bad questions.So, yeah I'll try to change that .
@Quill-HATMANIAC except smokey didn't have a hat before that
@Undo huh? wrong ping?
@Undo couldn't you just log in and upvote some random thing to get the cake hat? Or is it too late for that now
03:12
@Undo Can you get Odinson for Smokey?
@IlmariKaronen Smokey doesn't have close privs
@Doorknob冰 I could always log in as him through the app and upvote some random stuff.
Although that's borderline sockpuppeting.
@Doorknob冰 If like last year, it should work if it's still Dec whatever local time somewhere.
That too.
@Undo flags work too
@bjb568 We'll try it then
it wont
it's stacktime (utc)
03:13
For the "close a question" hat
@Undo s/ran/pseudoran/
@Doorknob冰 Ah. Know anyone with a gold tag badge?
@Undo hicrhis?
@CRABOLO I don't think @bjb has one
this is verifyable
03:14
So to get the odinson hat, just spend time in the CV queue, filter by dupe and hope
no ping necessary
@Undo Sorry, misread that—flags definitely work for the "Close a question" hat. Not sure about the dupehammer one.
trying to rep whore
need concentrate
@CRABOLO I only have a bronze. ;P
@Doorknob冰 Oh. Well we can make that work
03:14
@Doorknob冰 I guess that calls for science, then.
shadow has one on meta.se
Wait a second, this is weird
I'm not even seeing close flags in the dialog
@rnrneverdies My theory is 5 downvotes and a positive score. If it was +5/-5, then the user who asked this question would have received it. — Josh Crozier 7 hours ago
^ I think that's correct.
03:16
@Undo Not enough rep.
@hichris123 How much rep do you need to close-flag stuff?
@Undo 15...?
@Doorknob冰 Smokey has 46 on SO
03:17
these options will not appear in the flag menu until you have earned 50 reputation (the amount required for commenting).
oh, huh, did not know
@hichris123 Oh :(
How the hell did it get upvotes?
03:18
@JamesENL I posted a thing through it
To get SO chat rep
No the question that BJB linked
I'm VTC it as well
@bjb568 this is what the CV room is for
03:21
Yeah
@Undo thank you :P
Although note they might not take too kindly to that, CV requests are really only for when something needs to be closed now and the normal process isn't fast enough.
I'm fairly certain this has been mentioned before too
Winter Bash is very bad for my work output
03:23
I have the same problem but in reverse. :(
Your work output is bad for Winterbash?
2
@Undo The normal process doesn't get around to it ever.
@JamesENL we have a disclaimer in PPCG chat about this
abandon all work, ye who enter here
@bjb568 The recently closed list on SO differs
There's like 150k questions in the CVQ.
They just are all hidden.
03:26
6.6k, 150k, kinda the same thing
@bjb568 Source?
@Undo extrapolation from last year
@JamesENL Especially when it's finals week.
i think according to previous policies, it'd be like 150k, but policies were updated to remove many questions faster from Close queue, so now it only 6-7k
Also, just confirmed that no, it's not yet too late to earn the jelly donut hat.
I'm skeptical of extrapolation, partially based on the discrepancy between soprimaries.erwaysoftware.com and the final result ;)
03:27
The list of questions above are 90% of the list from [javascript]. Extrapolating that means 1M SBIs, 2M TB, 1.5M U, 1.5M 13, 500k 11…
@bjb568 I'm pretty sure we had this discussion before about how not using the proper channels isn't the right way to take this.
The best I can find right now though is this - right after you posted a bunch of flag requests:
Nov 17 '14 at 15:56, by Andy
Please stop spamming @bjb568
ok ok whatever
nobody wants to clean site
site be perpetually full of filth
such is life
no has potato
Suck it!
It's all worthwhile now.
I got that completely by accident on meta.SE :P
@bjb568 Any site with the volume SO gets will have filth at all times.
Which is sad
Hence my suggestion to severely limit quantity to improve quality.
@Undo YES!!!!!
ME TOO!
We need to make the asking process harder for the filth creators.
2
This means a more involved process like with devdoodle.net/qa/ask
03:31
@bjb568 That... that I can agree with, actually
@bjb568 Isn't your process a simple math problem?
I wonder if just enforcing a 30min delay between account creation and question posting would help.
@Andy well, that's the captcha…
As a relevant aside, if you are going to link to something, and it's behind a login, I'm not going to log in to see it
2
oh whoops forgot about that
03:32
@bjb568 That already happens.
139
Q: Rolling question rate limits are now network-wide

Tim PostWhen you think of Q&A sites, you think of a place where you come to get answers to your questions. But, where do those answers come from? What doesn't immediately stand out for many folks is that it's not our software that's giving them answers, it's other people that are taking the time to share...

Hmm, actually, would be nice to get some data on that.
@hichris123 The vast majority of these come from 1-rep accounts that only ever post one question
@Undo Based on experience running another site...not really. I had sleeper accounts register and then most days, weeks or months later.
Basically: more text boxes, more guidance, more requirements that are easy if you're doing it right but harder to spam 8 textareas instead of one.
@Undo tryin' to give @Mysticial a run for the money, eh?
@Andy Were you trying to combat spam or "plzhelp exam end 20 minute here picture SOLVE SEND SOLTION URGENT" questions?
03:34
Sure it'd stop the most impatient spammers, but all they really need is an account and then they can sleep for a few days before using the credentials. So, it'd be a temporary dip
Yeah, good luck catching up to Mysticial's un-"opened" rep count
Spam
@Andy Yeah, we've seen that it doesn't work for spam
Spammers aren't that dumb.
But would it work on throwaway 'halp' questions? Maybe.
03:35
And a motivated idiot student will certainly have incentive to wait.
@hichris123 What data, exactly?
@Undo If users reform after getting rate limited, or if they fall further into the limits.
The level of reform is absurdly low — Reopen rates are evidence of this.
Gotta agree with @bjb568 on this one. If someone needs it "now!" they probably mean they need it by 5pm local time and they have a few hours to spare
True
03:36
And something like that will likely piss off experts who actually value their time.
Still, it'd be interesting to test that particular aspect around semester end to see how it compares
@bjb568 Is it? Or do some users become "better" after a closed question or two?
@bjb568 Based on that screenshot, I'm guessing it doesn't allow you to the next section without clicking something?
I'm glad someone's finally talking about this topic. Amazing that it's never been discussed before...
(@Shog9 is it easy for you to get data on whether users reform after closed questions/rate limites or should I post a meta question?)
03:38
@hichris123 Well, I did.
But few bother.
@hichris123 you can figure at least some of that out via SEDE
@Andy Yup, you need to press next and satisfy min length requirements for each step.
I'd never use your site.
@Shog9 Mm, wouldn't most closed questions be deleted? (especially if they were quite bad)
@hichris123 I posted stats on that recently...
03:40
Which may or may not be a goal, but still, way to much hand holding / babysitting
@Andy It makes asking a well-formated question less of a daunting task then a free-form textarea. And it makes it harder to vamp.
@Shog9 I'm sorry, I don't have a RSS feed for recent Shog posts. :(
you've wasted your life
7
I dunno, I don't think it[DD's asking process]'d impede an expert's asking workflow…
76
Q: What posts get deleted, and why?

Shog9A fair number of posts get deleted on Stack Overflow each month, for a wide variety of reasons and by a diverse set of methods. Because these posts are, by definition, not visible and not searchable, there tends to be a lot of misinformation about how much gets deleted and who deletes it. So,...

03:41
@Shog9 Probably true. But I also should be studying...
Ya gotta love those Author Votes.
@hichris123 but you aren't, are you
... I was...
@hichris123 Nah. School's almost done for the year. No need to study now
clearly, you need the prospect of writing SQL to motivate you to study
03:42
those stats don't seem to answer the primary question of questions closed + deleted / questions closed.
Not aliens. Definitely not aliens. — Shog9 ♦ Jun 11 at 4:58
@Andy Finals are 20% of my grade, so...
— highlight of the post
@hichris123 peh, 35% in my real class.
And two midterms each 25%.
@SmokeDetector fp-
If you are worried about percentages now, you've done the rest of the semester wrong. Go back. Do it again.
03:44
^ Questions closed in the last week
y-axis is count, x-axis is the user's total # of questions. Doesn't include deleted stuff, of course.
deadlines are over lol
@Andy Well... if I fail every final, then I can't get an A. Therefore...
...you'll get another letter grade?
...you'll paint your house?
...the cows will come home?
…you'll milk your cat?
Finish your sentences man!
03:45
All of the above.
At the moment, there's no way to see the ClosedDate, tags or titles of deleted questions.
(I bet Andy will be really annoyed by
thank you
03:46
@hichris123 I really want to have user IDs, but that will never happen
Can't query ClosedDate from PostsWithDeleted. :(
Therefore, we need localsede access.
Oh, there's a better way to do this. Just a sec.
Meh, just scrape SO question timelines.
@hichris123 so just get hired by SE :P
!xkcd find api
03:47
@bjb568 Too much work. You get IP throttled somewhere in between 3-10 req/sec.
Eew, DD won't do that.
@Doorknob冰 Somehow, I don't think that'll work out too well... at least for a few years.
DD will collaborate with bot developers to help cultivate an environment where innovation… ok whatever
@bjb568 new goal: flood DD with requests until it goes down
03:48
:o
@Doorknob冰 Do we have an over/under time on this?
If anyone wants data btw... I'm scraping the list of secret hats and who earned them ~ every 5 minutes.
Or number of requests per second?
@Doorknob冰 Currently the site can fit in RAM so after the first req it doesn't need many resources.
03:49
I have done something terrible
But the slowest page is probably question pages, which have like 20 DB and file and whatever queries.
@Undo what... is that O_o
@Undo Clearly the problem is the purple lines. They are attacking those lower lines
@Andy Down with the purple lines
2
yesh
03:50
@Doorknob冰 Me failing at SEDE
Yup.
It's a bit better after I implemented yield-yield tho.
Now only 9 levels of indentation inside this block.
I think I had upper twenties before.
Okay, here's an interesting one:
^ Age of account at question posting on closed questions in last 8 days, in fifteen minute increments.
How is that a surprise though? It's par for the course that the majority of crap comes from new accounts?
28 mins ago, by Andy
Gotta agree with @bjb568 on this one. If someone needs it "now!" they probably mean they need it by 5pm local time and they have a few hours to spare
This seems to refute that to some extent
Although not really
04:05
I posted an official information request: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/312370/…
Okay, now the really interesting part
^ Same query, for all questions
Note that the first 15 min increment
Wait, there's something goofy there
This is how I imagine most new users experience SO. They hear about this magical place from their coworker/classmate/teacher/bondage-slave who we will call Brick-headed Bill. Brick-headed Bill hasn't actually used SO before, but he's pretty sure that if you've got any kind of programming problem they can help you solve it. So new person who we shall call Pudding-headed Phil, comes to SO and makes an account and then posts a vague description of their problem on SO.
2
That totally belongs on a meta post somewhere.
Something I can upvote.
@Undo Isn't that just a plotting artifact? Seems like the first graph is missing the leftmost datapoint (possibly because it's zero and so doesn't show up in the SQL results)?
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title: Weight-Loss And Diets by dennissmith on askubuntu.com
04:10
@IlmariKaronen Yeah, that's what it was.
@Undo How about ratio of closed?
[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported question: How to Recover Deleted Data from OnePlus X/2/One on Mac by Alice Clinton on android.stackexchange.com (@AndrewT.)
@bjb568 Gimme a sec.
@bjb568 far harder number to pull, my sql-foo isn't up to it
just divide the one thing by the other
I think there's a jQuery plugin for division.
04:12
He doesn't bother to actually read any of the helptext on the How-to-ask page, because reading text just seems like too much hard work (Which is what he's here to avoid, remember). The question immediately gets DV'd/CV'd to oblivion.
At this point Pudding-headed Phil has 3 options. He can give up and try to actually figure out the problem, he can edit the question to insult the people who obviously don't understand his brilliance or he can actually read the help section and maybe understand why he got smacked for his lack of knowledge.
@IlmariKaronen Hah, that was because of a migrated question, where the question was 'created' fifteen minutes before the account was created (stackoverflow.com/questions/34208610/…)
The majority of new users choose option 1. Some choose option 2 (to our great amusement). The minority (who will also eventually find Meta, and other SO sites) actually fix their question and usually get an answer
Minority is probably under 5%.
Anyway, gimme graph!
Night!
04:15
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: indications of maturing. Dark circles and puffiness of by Colesajyabond on meta.stackexchange.com
Also, you should totally do some logarithmic binning on that data.
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: Nouveau Skin Care Special OfferHow Should I Use Nouveau Skin Care Serum? by Colesajyabond on stackoverflow.com
But it's the I can't be bothered understanding this attitude that causes the flood of crap from new accounts. Because most of the first world thinks that programming can't be that hard
@Undo If you find an appropriate Meta-post where that would fit. I'll gladly post and expand on it
@JamesENL cough hour of code
sd k
Ya'll here for the hats or what? — Undo 18 secs ago
I wish there was a hat for spamflags
04:22
There's a hat for gold and silver badges, which you can get with a decent quantity of spam flags.
But I've already got those badges on SO :(
I might be able to get a silver Reviewer badge though
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body: Your Mind Can Be Strengthened By Fun Activities That by Janeamithy on superuser.com
sd k
sd k
Hnnnggg I want the Hairboats revenge hat, but I don't want to leave a useless comment
04:34
How about 'The Onion Knight hat is awarded to the authors of HNQs with post scores under or equal to 15'
I apologise to the gods of Meta and site quality but I really want that damn hat. — JamesENL 10 secs ago
I am shamed
Well, at least you can delete your comment after you get it.
@IlmariKaronen That's kinda neat.
It is. Alas, doesn't really support the theory that questions by very new accounts are more likely to get closed.
Of course, that doesn't include deleted questions, who knows how much that skews the results.
04:42
Is it also considering first post by existing SE account (non SO user, but already SE user)?
@Undo can I get Smokey privileges in SOCVR please?
I mean... a user with 199-rep on somewhere, posted a first question on SO
@JamesENL sure, what's your SO chat uid?
@AndrewT. No, I don't know if there's any good way to even get that information from SEDE.
@Undo 2357233
04:45
Figured a screenshot of the graph might be useful.
I love entering a chat room and being welcomed with a graph.
@Undo thanks!
God I love graphs. I don't even care what the legend says. Look at those curves.
@JamesENL No problem, pending CI and pull
@JasonC It's closed first questions as a function of account age when asked, with a logarithmic x-axis.
Also, I have absolutely no idea what the heck is going on with the total first question counts (blue graph) around 1e5 seconds. :o
Hmm, OK, 1e5 seconds is about one day... makes sense that the account age at first question would have peaks around multiples of 24 hours, because most people tend to have a sort of regular sleep schedule.
Incidentally, that massive peak is centered at about 15 minutes. Looks like that's how long it takes most people to ask their first question after registering.
04:55
^ The little people do neat things if you leave the page open

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