Tavern on the Meta

Braiam

00:01

"No Action Needed"??? Just why? — Braiam 8 secs ago

hichris123

@animuson Okay, let's put it this way: you can suspend someone if you look at my flags. ;P

iStimple

animuson

Suspending is only fun if also accompanied by account blowing-uppings.

4

Braiam

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/q/18442846/792066

Qantas 94 Heavy

00:17

How the hell did that get so many votes without one close vote?

Braiam

> asked Aug 26 '13 at 11:17

iStimple

@Qantas94Heavy new user * chick + time of day = success ?

bjb568

@iStimple Yup.

And people who don't know how to vote.

Braiam

@bjb568 mainly

there was a question in the hot list from AU that was an exact, word by word, duplicated of another in UL

and got metric crap tons of upvotes

iStimple

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24910934/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/22043826/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24433828/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/23801858/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/17162500/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/18504240/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/23763588/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24633784/…

bjb568

00:37

Got more?

iStimple

yea, but those are the only ones I'm posting, and they really need to get rid of before cv's start to expire

bjb568

If you have a pile of them, post them in the CV room:

Closevotes

Post questions you want closed here with the same syntax as ex...

Braiam

@iStimple a downvote is enough

bjb568

@Braiam Closed.

Braiam

reopen please stackoverflow.com/q/19657288/792066

bjb568

00:49

So you expect us to write all of the code for you? That's not how any of this works. — Sparky 3 hours ago

Santa Claus

wtf happened with the close reasons here stackoverflow.com/questions/23801858/…

hichris123

@SantaClaus A mod changed the wording of the recommendation close reason.

That is a different close reason than the old one.

Santa Claus

@hichris123 Thats annoying.

bjb568

stackoverflow.com/questions/25351991/… stackoverflow.com/questions/25353800/… stackoverflow.com/questions/25353373/… stackoverflow.com/questions/25353554/… How are these not VLQ?

Santa Claus

@hichris123 I don't see why they needed to add "books" to it

bjb568

01:00

@SantaClaus File a bug report on meta.

hichris123

@bjb568 ... how many times have we told you how to use VLQ?

2

Santa Claus

@bjb568 Do I need to go find some chat messages from mods to quote? Because I have them conveniently bookmarked.

2

bjb568

@hichris123 I shouldn't use VLQ at all?

Santa Claus

@bjb568 They should be closed, not deleted immediately.

bjb568

@SantaClaus They said that I should CV (I did). Not flag 3-year-old stuff that doesn't need immediate action (I didn't). And only flag if the community isn't handling it fast enough (strange, since VLQ is also supposed to be how to get things to the 20kers i.e. delete things without mods) which it isn't.

@SantaClaus I disagree.

Santa Claus

01:04

@bjb568 If a close reason is applicable, I wouldn't bother VLQing

hichris123

@bjb568 stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/moderator-tools

> When should I delete questions?

Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be flagged and deleted.

Before voting to delete, please check that there are no good answers; if so, then the question should be flagged for moderator attention as a potential merge candidate. We don't like to lose great answers!

Also, be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates; they can serve as a signpost, directing users to useful answers on another question.

It takes 3 votes, minimum, to delete a closed question. However, the number of delete votes required scales to the n…

Braiam

from the mods perspective VLQ's flags workflow is substantially different from what users can do.

bjb568

@SantaClaus Why?

@hichris123 "no lasting value whatsoever" Yes.

Santa Claus

@bjb568 Because its not utter crap? Its...just bad?

bjb568

@SantaClaus What's the difference? Is there some hidden value in them that I'm not seeing?

random

01:15

Flag as VLQ when ... actually, just don't. But if it looks like "I hit my face on the keyboard" gibberish, that's VLQ. Not just because it's downvoted and not because it's homework or it's for their Freelancer/Rent-A-Coder bid.

bjb568

@random Why does everybody have a different definition?

random

Why do you have to use VLQ?

AstroCB

This is too easy:

bjb568

@random To put it in the LQRQ to give it to generally good reviewers using a system that works for the purpose that I'm flagging it for.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive title detected: Why did Drax call Gamora a whore? on scifi.stackexchange.com

bjb568

01:21

VLQ: scifi.stackexchange.com/a/65905/31784

random

You wouldn't flag it as just "Not an answer" being that it's not an answer first?

AstroCB

There we are.

It's not oneboxing properly...

random

Good thing it left in the "Thanks in advance!" part as well. And the bold. And "Solved"

AstroCB

@random Yes: this was more for when we were stripping tags first and cleaning them up later.

It's faster than it looks there.

random

So it's necessary to do two actions instead of taking care of the post in one edit?

AstroCB

01:27

@random It's faster that way if we split up the work.

bjb568

@random What's the difference?

Andy

@AstroCB "faster" to gain reputation?

random

@bjb568 Why is it not not an answer before it's a VLQ?

bjb568

@random ?

AstroCB

@Andy When you have full editing privileges, you don't get rep for edits.

Andy

01:29

@AstroCB True. But then why not do it alll in one edit anyway?

random

@bjb568 Does your flag dialog pop up not give you the option of selecting "Not an answer"?

bjb568

@AstroCB Can't you get a list of all questions tagged and get a script to run thru them automatically?

AstroCB

@Andy One person focused on going through the posts and stripping the tags and and another going through and fixing up the posts: it's faster to burninate the tags and the posts themselves get more attention.

bjb568

@random Yes. So why does it matter which one I flag it as? They're the same thing.

Braiam

@AstroCB that seems to be counter productive...

AstroCB

01:30

@bjb568 Yes, but I haven't delved into the API yet.

random

@bjb568 This is why your flags are getting declined

AstroCB

@Braiam How so?

Braiam

@AstroCB time used by person doubles

bjb568

@AstroCB I just can't API. It's too confusing.

I look at AJAX calls by the UA instead.

I dunno what the difference is.

@random So what's the difference?

AstroCB

@Braiam If one person is focused on the edits, the edits will be better: if one person is focused on getting rid of the tag, the tag is burninated faster.

random

01:32

@AstroCB So how does the one coming in after look up what needs to be done? From the flood of questions that no longer have that tag? Or from another user trailing the other by going through their revision history?

@bjb568 There's a difference between the same thing and the same end result

AstroCB

@random If you don't refresh the tag page, the questions stay there.

bjb568

1 min ago, by bjb568

@random So what's the difference?

AstroCB

Or trail the other (whichever you prefer).

random

So you are making sure it's more work by having other users make sure they don't refresh the page while the other tag stripper goes to town

1 min ago, by random

@bjb568 There's a difference between the same thing and the same end result

Braiam

@random I think he wants you to elaborate

@AstroCB ie. stackoverflow.com/posts/2039964/revisions, that edition took me two seconds total

random

01:35

VLQ means stop flagging as such when you've been told you're not picking up the difference correctly

Braiam

and I fixed as many problems as possibles

@random that's a unsatisfactory answer

AstroCB

@random It's just one way of doing it: you don't have to if you don't want to.

Braiam

both flags are broken from the workflow standpoint, either way

AstroCB

@Braiam The button takes 750 milliseconds.

random

There's a difference between, "this is a comment" and "this is gibberish"

bjb568

01:36

But who said all VLQ has to be "this is gibberish"?

What defines a comment?

random

Who defines everything in sight being VLQ when other flag choices are more appropriate?

bjb568

And if it's not built into the system, what real difference is there in the treatment of the flags?

@random Who defines other flag choices as more appropriate?

random

When's the last time you flagged anything as anything other than VLQ?

If you keep flagging everything as VLQ, then your judgement will be seen as suspect

bjb568

@random A couple of hours ago: spam.

Braiam

@random and that's where you moderators are wrong. Not an answer doesn't imply that it's a comment, implies that the answer doesn't answer that question

Andy

01:39

8

A: Am I misusing the "Very Low Quality" flag?

Use VLQ for obvious, unarguable garbage. Regardless of whether or not it ends up in /review or the mod queue (and most of the time, it'll end up in both at least for a little while...) VLQ flags on questions that should be closed just create unnecessary overhead - someone else has to spend more...

Braiam

one of such cases is when it's actually a comment

bjb568

Shog said that. But we aren't supposed to flag because the mod tools are broken.

Andy

Right there it is said

hichris123

How about this @bjb568: can you or the OP fix the question? If so, then it's not VLQ. And just about the only questions that can't be fixed... are cat-on-keyboard questions.

bjb568

Obvious garbage, I'd argue. But nothing is unarguable. There's always bad arguments.

hichris123

01:40

And if you close the questions, they'll be auto-deleted in 7 days.

random

@Braiam Not answering the question is one thing. Not making any sense or not even being on topic is another thing completely.

bjb568

@hichris123 No, there's more that can't be fixed. A lot more.

hichris123

@bjb568 Like what?

bjb568

@random Not an answer is supposed to mean not an answer. That's it. There's a special case for when it requires the question to determine if it's NAA which would ideally not be there, but because of broken mod tools is.

random

If "I want to delete this" is the thing that can't be fixed, get the reputation to do so. Not to proxy 10k users via VLQ.

bjb568

01:41

@hichris123 Recommendation questions, for example. I guess you can edit them into too broad.

Braiam

@random I'm pointing out that your interpretation as how flags should be used, how the users actually use them and how SE intended to be used are very different

bjb568

@random Shog said VLQ is a recommend deletion flag.

Andy

@bjb568 Or, you can use the off topic reason regarding recommendations.

random

You don't need to insta-delete everything just because you see it has a downvote

2

bjb568

@Braiam Yes, also the Mod/LQ-reviewer divide is a big thing.

Braiam

01:42

which is aggravated by the fact that VLQ's and NAA's end in the VLQRQ, so the workflow and interpretation of both flags is inefficient

bjb568

@Andy That's a close vote. Which I did.

@random Unless it has no value.

Andy

@bjb568 How, exactly, are you determining if it has no value?

bjb568

Siiigh, I gtg.

@Andy I can't. That's part of the problem.

Braiam

some flags end "helpful" when handled by users and declined when handled by moderators... this shouldn't happen despite what Shog said that reviewers tend to err in the "lets keep this around" more often than modw

the only sane usage of the VLQ and NAA flags where the rules are very clear for mods and users is in SoftRec

hichris123

49

A: What exactly is a recommendation question?

Short answer? "Recommendation question" is shorthand for "you didn't describe a problem, you just asked for a list of things." create a pdf from a pdf in PHP? Is there a PDF library for PDF that can start with an existing PDF and add more things on to it? Currently I'm using ezPDF but ...

If they're not "What is your favorite IDE", edit and salvage them!

@Braiam Yeah, and that's kinda because VLQ flags on questions shouldn't even be around.

Braiam

01:46

@Shog what I was talking about why mods needs to see the context of the question ^

hichris123

35

Q: It shouldn’t be possible to flag questions as Very Low Quality

The “very low quality” flag, on questions, is vague. It means “do something”, and that’s not helpful. I think it’s pretty well covered by the variety of flaggable close reasons/an actual close vote, and “other”. It’s rarely helpful when a question “needs” to be closed faster, but an edit dismisse...

Braiam

users are shown the context, while mods are not, you are asking them to evaluate two different things so the end result is confusion among the users

hichris123

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25354613/…

@animuson Then check if any of the plagiarizers have socks!

Dave Chen

why does the system think I deleted the first in? I deleted the second one! :P

hichris123

02:06

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25345608/…

Jamal

@hichris123 WTF

hichris123

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24952195/…

@Jamal It's probably a spam email, and the person who asked the question now has a virus... :/

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/18407572/flashing-glass-boot-img

bjb568

02:22

@hichris123 "can u recommend jquery so lib for good site"

Braiam

►

warning: I'm sharing this video ^, not because is any good, but because the "WTF"

Jamal

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/4320334/…

Braiam

@Jamal tl;dr cv web-hosting

Jamal

02:44

And it's gone!

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25355630/…

And the answers are terrible; they all mention the same thing.

hichris123

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25352900/…

bjb568

"Any sufficiently ignorant person is indistinguishable from stupid."

user163250

03:03

@Braiam dude, that is hilarious!

user163250

"Punchy McBritches" LOLOLOLOLOL

user163250

I can't tell if they hired dancers or actual martial artists to act in that thing.

user163250

Maybe a combination of both.

AstroCB

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25355819/…

Don't you just love it when people use tags marked "DO NOT USE THIS TAG?"

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24894504/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24801001/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25179017/…

Shog9

03:43

@Braiam mods tend to be a lot more consistent about enforcing the rules as they see them. Reviewers tend toward passing stuff that looks reasonable and damning it if it looks bad.

It probably helps that reviewers can't actually decline NAA/VLQ flags, much less decline them with messages.

"Oh, those roboreviewers wasted my flag. This is all Shog's fault. Having diagnosed the situation to my satisfaction, I shall now have a beer."

vs.

"Oh, that bastard mod declined my flag and insulted my honor. RAAAAAGE!"

And of course, no one gets notified if 90 of their last 100 flags were disputed.

animuson

Why doesn't a mod clicking Looks Ok in review not decline the flag? Didn't that used to happen?

bjb568

Double negative. Confused.

tchrist

04:25

@bjb568 Horn's rule: Simplex Negatio Negat; Duplex Negatio Affirmat; Triplex Negatio Confundit.

You aren’t supposed to get confused until you get to three. :)

SilentKiller

04:46

morning morning

Infinite Recursion

morning

SilentKiller

@InfiniteRecursion hows you.?

Infinite Recursion

@SilentKiller I am yellow (sunny, happy) :)

hows you?

SilentKiller

@InfiniteRecursion i am red with infection in eye.

Infinite Recursion

@SilentKiller ohh! hope you get well and white soon.

animuson

04:55

Uck this new bug bite medication my mom bought smells like rubber cement...

Infinite Recursion

@bjb568 Get a ♦ or get reborn as a duck. No entry for cats in the room.

animuson

3

bjb568

       ,~~.
      (  6 )-_,
 (\___ )=='-'
  \ .   ) )
   \ `-' /
~'`~'`~'`~'`~

2

I iz duck. Tis iz self portrait. @Cupcake Let me in!

animuson

@animuson Available at Shirt.Woot! I'm tempted to buy one...

Infinite Recursion

@bjb568 Lies! Try ♦ instead.

bjb568

05:14

5

It's a super secret beta site.

@Cupcake Let me in!

DroidDev

@bjb568 I think super secret site forgot to put commas "," in rep points :P :P

bjb568

@DroidDev They're letting me beta-test their new UI.

animuson

1337, 42, and... 69?

4

bjb568

For example, switching language packs gives me this:

The text is translated back by Google Ultron Translator, of course.

Any way, enough secrets revealed, I need to go to bed. Night!

DroidDev

@bjb568 night

!

Jan Dvorak

05:31

SPAM drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/126939/weight-loss-dural, drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/126943/…

Jan Dvorak

05:43

SPAM gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/82073/…

SPAM meta.stackexchange.com/questions/238189/…

DroidDev

first link on "related" section of MSE spam "Extremely specialized, narrow topics?"

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: ECLIPSE PLUGIN DEVELOPMENT FINAL STAGE on askubuntu.com

Tim Post

@JanDvorak Ugh I wish that ring would just give up and #die

Jan Dvorak

@TimPost I'm curious about how big it is

also, if the server filter is already learning to block this spam

Unihedron

06:03

status-closed

Tim Post

@JanDvorak Huge, I suspect it's a very large bot net of compromised (old) Windows XP computers owned by people who like having more spyware tool bars in IE than usable browser space on the screen :)

Unihedron

Eww, Windows XP!

Jan Dvorak

*curses the fact that he still has XP on his faster but older desktop machine*

Tim Post

And yeah, the system is trained on them fine, it's just the hordes that come in - the first 2 or 3 trip a block, but there's 30 more laying around to clean up after that

user163250

Meh, never mind.

Jan Dvorak

06:09

SPAM meta.stackexchange.com/questions/238191/weight-loss-eta

wait, ,eta looks like a typo, but spambots don't use QWERTY, do they?

Unihedron

@JanDvorak Maybe it's some ASCII bit interchange.

Jan Dvorak

@Unihedron perhaps... 1?01101 => 101100

EEEK! A SE API filter that works just fine one day gets totally unrecognised the next one.

once more I have to recreate the filter and I'll start doing it automatically...

user163250

06:25

I think I find at least 1 other user while looking for plagiarism for another :P

Jan Dvorak

any idea what's answer.title in the response?

user163250

@JanDvorak I've never worked with the API, so I don't know.

Unihedron

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/q/22031995

Jan Dvorak

SPAM drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/126947/…

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/20172044/…

Unihedron

06:42

@Cupcake There's a link-only answer downstairs. is it NAA?

user163250

@Unihedron which one?

Unihedron

> Check out PHP Date Time class, you should be using this instead of doing things manually. php.net/manual/en/book.datetime.php

user163250

@Unihedron no, it says "Use the PHP Date Time class".

user163250

That's an answer.

Unihedron

Ah, ok. Maybe it should have been embedded.

user163250

06:43

If it said "Click here!" and that was the link, then that's not an answer.

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake still a crappy one

user163250

@JanDvorak hey, I never said it was a good answer :P

Jan Dvorak

i'd even say that while it is an answer, it's a VLQ one

user163250

If you want to flag it, I'm not stopping you.

Unihedron

You'd have to use up one rep point DVing that since you can't VLQ-f positive score posts.

Jan Dvorak

06:45

as a reviewer, I would comment and delvote

user163250

cv-plz duplicate stackoverflow.com/questions/22211867/timeago-year-and-month-ago

Unihedron

@JanDvorak gone

Jan Dvorak

@Unihedron only now? :-(

SPAM outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/6474/…

user163250

@JanDvorak you want in on the anti-plagiarism room?

Jan Dvorak

@Cupcake for how long will you tie me up there?

user163250

06:58

@JanDvorak you can come and go as you please, you don't have to feel obligated to do anything.

Jan Dvorak

I'll take a peek, then

user163250

I'll be honest though.

user163250

There is a lot of plagiarism...

Jan Dvorak

what's the desired course of action from me there?

user163250

You can flag a few answers from a query, and take note of users who should get a closer look. Or you can go take a closer look at a few users, do some googling, and flag their answers that way.

user163250

07:01

I think I just granted you access.

user163250

Ping me or anyone who has room access if you have questions.

user163250

I should start adding instructions for reference somewhere...

Jan Dvorak

SPAM drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/126951/…

user163250

Um, a mod just gave one of the plagiarizers that I flagged a suspension.

Jan Dvorak

where is the room?

SmokeDetector

07:10

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: ISIS IN RELATION TO ISLAM? on islam.stackexchange.com

Jan Dvorak

^probably crap^

user163250

@JanDvorak chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/16452/plagiarism-fighting

Jan Dvorak

thanks

Unihedron

It's private. :P

user163250

@Unihedron of course it is.

Jan Dvorak

07:11

requesting read-only access

Unihedron

I'm not a plagiarism fighter, but keep up the good work!

Jan Dvorak

read-write access will be fine, too

user163250

@Unihedron thanks.

Jan Dvorak

how is this a hot question? physics.stackexchange.com/questions/130985/…

user163250

26

Q: Can you run away from your shadow?

Now this might be a silly question but it's actually bugging me, this one might be easier to understand if you have kids that watch (or used to watch) Peppa Pig. In one of the episodes, about shadows, the kids try to run away from their shadows, they try to move faster and faster and of course fa...

special-relativity visible-light speed-of-light shadow

user163250

07:13

^ LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Jan Dvorak

thanks for the access. Why didn't I get a reload, though?

Unihedron

@JanDvorak elephants

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: ECLIPSE PLUGIN DEVELOPMENT FINAL STAGE on askubuntu.com

Unihedron

@SmokeDetector That's vlq right?

Jan Dvorak

@Unihedron likely

@Unihedron or rather "should be closed but I won't bother telling you what as.

rene

07:21

is that ontopic on askubuntu?

Unihedron

no

rene

I think that was my first non-spam flag on askubuntu....

SmokeDetector

07:46

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword detected: Love Vashikaran Expert +91 9501244448 on scifi.stackexchange.com

Jan Dvorak

oh, long time no see

Vogel612

@SmokeDetector definitely!

Hello everyone, btw

Sam

Hiya.

ProgramFOX

@Vogel612 Hello!

Unihedron

Greets

SmokeDetector

07:49

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: HIGH ENGINE TEMP on mechanics.stackexchange.com

Bart

Really, we're going to flag 2 day old messages now?

rene

Grumpy Old @Bart on Monday Morning Without Coffee Yet

Bart

I'm not old ... the rest is undeniably true.

And I'm old.

Sam

09:10

This is weird, VS actually likes me...

Here.

Jan Dvorak

SPAM meta.stackexchange.com/questions/238198/…

gone

Vogel612

Jan Dvorak

SPAM meta.stackexchange.com/questions/238199/…

Vogel612

gone

also. "You don't have the permission to use this kind of flag" ???

Sam

@Vogel612 Stange, I can see that one, but not the one I posted.

Vogel612

09:18

does that happen when the post is already deleted?

Jan Dvorak

@Vogel612 that's what happens when you try to flag a gone post

Vogel612

@JanDvorak that should be a different message then..

bad UX....

rene

@JanDvorak I think I was the last one to flag

Vogel612

@Sam well it looks like your link doesn't work for it.

chose to reupload the image "from the web" with your link.

when I uses your link it didn't work either ...

Jan Dvorak

nuke-pls stackoverflow.com/questions/25359910/…

Unihedron

09:23

@JanDvorak Down.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: EXCEL VBA STUDENTS DATABASE on programmers.stackexchange.com

Jan Dvorak

crap^

> This site is for questions that are relevant to all programmers and not just you.

I love that

Vogel612

@JanDvorak to the power of eleven

taken verbatim from their help center infographic ;)

AAARGH Can't downvote!!!

user163250

^ I know right?

Vogel612

@JanDvorak what would be speaking against using my formulation..

Again, I took that verbatim from their help-center, anyone could use it ;)

Jan Dvorak

09:38

@Vogel612 is it cc-by, or public domain? :-)

Vogel612

FFA ;)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: HIGH ENGINE TEMP on mechanics.stackexchange.com

Vogel612

@SmokeDetector wait didn't we have that before??

Jan Dvorak

@Vogel612 we did

Vogel612

and it's actually the same question linked..

also.. why can't I make an anonymous edit suggestion to the question??

status-by-design ??

rene

09:43

I created an account so I could edit the title....turns out it already has a pending edit ....

Vogel612

@rene the commitment ;)

rene

Yeah, at least I have a nice +100 for the rest of the day....

Vogel612

@rene reminds me of my first answer on scifi..

just last week I created an account there.

mortarboard on the first day --> 300 rep on a single day.

and the answer is at 40 upvotes now.

got me populist, good answer, nice answer, mortarboard, teacher...

Jan Dvorak

did you get enlightened?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: EXCEL VBA STUDENTS DATABASE on programmers.stackexchange.com

Vogel612