Tavern on the Meta

Braiam

12:01 AM

"No Action Needed"??? Just why? — Braiam 8 secs ago

hichris123

@animuson Okay, let's put it this way: you can suspend someone if you look at my flags. ;P

iStimple

animuson

Suspending is only fun if also accompanied by account blowing-uppings.

4

Braiam

cv-pls stackoverflow.com/q/18442846/792066

Qantas 94 Heavy

12:17 AM

How the hell did that get so many votes without one close vote?

Braiam

> asked Aug 26 '13 at 11:17

iStimple

@Qantas94Heavy new user * chick + time of day = success ?

bjb568

@iStimple Yup.

And people who don't know how to vote.

Braiam

@bjb568 mainly

there was a question in the hot list from AU that was an exact, word by word, duplicated of another in UL

and got metric crap tons of upvotes

iStimple

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24910934/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/22043826/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24433828/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/23801858/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/17162500/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/18504240/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/23763588/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24633784/…

bjb568

12:37 AM

Got more?

iStimple

yea, but those are the only ones I'm posting, and they really need to get rid of before cv's start to expire

bjb568

If you have a pile of them, post them in the CV room:

Closevotes

Post questions you want closed here with the same syntax as ex...

Braiam

@iStimple a downvote is enough

bjb568

@Braiam Closed.

Braiam

reopen please stackoverflow.com/q/19657288/792066

bjb568

12:49 AM

So you expect us to write all of the code for you? That's not how any of this works. — Sparky 3 hours ago

Santa Claus

wtf happened with the close reasons here stackoverflow.com/questions/23801858/…

hichris123

@SantaClaus A mod changed the wording of the recommendation close reason.

That is a different close reason than the old one.

Santa Claus

@hichris123 Thats annoying.

bjb568

stackoverflow.com/questions/25351991/… stackoverflow.com/questions/25353800/… stackoverflow.com/questions/25353373/… stackoverflow.com/questions/25353554/… How are these not VLQ?

Santa Claus

@hichris123 I don't see why they needed to add "books" to it

bjb568

1:00 AM

@SantaClaus File a bug report on meta.

hichris123

@bjb568 ... how many times have we told you how to use VLQ?

2

Santa Claus

@bjb568 Do I need to go find some chat messages from mods to quote? Because I have them conveniently bookmarked.

2

bjb568

@hichris123 I shouldn't use VLQ at all?

Santa Claus

@bjb568 They should be closed, not deleted immediately.

bjb568

@SantaClaus They said that I should CV (I did). Not flag 3-year-old stuff that doesn't need immediate action (I didn't). And only flag if the community isn't handling it fast enough (strange, since VLQ is also supposed to be how to get things to the 20kers i.e. delete things without mods) which it isn't.

@SantaClaus I disagree.

Santa Claus

1:04 AM

@bjb568 If a close reason is applicable, I wouldn't bother VLQing

hichris123

@bjb568 stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/moderator-tools

> When should I delete questions?

Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be flagged and deleted.

Before voting to delete, please check that there are no good answers; if so, then the question should be flagged for moderator attention as a potential merge candidate. We don't like to lose great answers!

Also, be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates; they can serve as a signpost, directing users to useful answers on another question.

It takes 3 votes, minimum, to delete a closed question. However, the number of delete votes required scales to the n…

Braiam

from the mods perspective VLQ's flags workflow is substantially different from what users can do.

bjb568

@SantaClaus Why?

@hichris123 "no lasting value whatsoever" Yes.

Santa Claus

@bjb568 Because its not utter crap? Its...just bad?

bjb568

@SantaClaus What's the difference? Is there some hidden value in them that I'm not seeing?

random

1:15 AM

Flag as VLQ when ... actually, just don't. But if it looks like "I hit my face on the keyboard" gibberish, that's VLQ. Not just because it's downvoted and not because it's homework or it's for their Freelancer/Rent-A-Coder bid.

bjb568

@random Why does everybody have a different definition?

random

Why do you have to use VLQ?

AstroCB

This is too easy:

bjb568

@random To put it in the LQRQ to give it to generally good reviewers using a system that works for the purpose that I'm flagging it for.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive title detected: Why did Drax call Gamora a whore? on scifi.stackexchange.com

bjb568

1:21 AM

VLQ: scifi.stackexchange.com/a/65905/31784

random

You wouldn't flag it as just "Not an answer" being that it's not an answer first?

AstroCB

There we are.

It's not oneboxing properly...

random

Good thing it left in the "Thanks in advance!" part as well. And the bold. And "Solved"

AstroCB

@random Yes: this was more for when we were stripping tags first and cleaning them up later.

It's faster than it looks there.

random

So it's necessary to do two actions instead of taking care of the post in one edit?

AstroCB

1:27 AM

@random It's faster that way if we split up the work.

bjb568

@random What's the difference?

Andy

@AstroCB "faster" to gain reputation?

random

@bjb568 Why is it not not an answer before it's a VLQ?

bjb568

@random ?

AstroCB

@Andy When you have full editing privileges, you don't get rep for edits.

Andy

1:29 AM

@AstroCB True. But then why not do it alll in one edit anyway?

random

@bjb568 Does your flag dialog pop up not give you the option of selecting "Not an answer"?

bjb568

@AstroCB Can't you get a list of all questions tagged and get a script to run thru them automatically?

AstroCB

@Andy One person focused on going through the posts and stripping the tags and and another going through and fixing up the posts: it's faster to burninate the tags and the posts themselves get more attention.

bjb568

@random Yes. So why does it matter which one I flag it as? They're the same thing.

Braiam

@AstroCB that seems to be counter productive...

AstroCB

1:30 AM

@bjb568 Yes, but I haven't delved into the API yet.

random

@bjb568 This is why your flags are getting declined

AstroCB

@Braiam How so?

Braiam

@AstroCB time used by person doubles

bjb568

@AstroCB I just can't API. It's too confusing.

I look at AJAX calls by the UA instead.

I dunno what the difference is.

@random So what's the difference?

AstroCB

@Braiam If one person is focused on the edits, the edits will be better: if one person is focused on getting rid of the tag, the tag is burninated faster.

random

1:32 AM

@AstroCB So how does the one coming in after look up what needs to be done? From the flood of questions that no longer have that tag? Or from another user trailing the other by going through their revision history?

@bjb568 There's a difference between the same thing and the same end result

AstroCB

@random If you don't refresh the tag page, the questions stay there.

bjb568

1 min ago, by bjb568

@random So what's the difference?

AstroCB

Or trail the other (whichever you prefer).

random

So you are making sure it's more work by having other users make sure they don't refresh the page while the other tag stripper goes to town

1 min ago, by random

@bjb568 There's a difference between the same thing and the same end result

Braiam

@random I think he wants you to elaborate

@AstroCB ie. stackoverflow.com/posts/2039964/revisions, that edition took me two seconds total

random

1:35 AM

VLQ means stop flagging as such when you've been told you're not picking up the difference correctly

Braiam

and I fixed as many problems as possibles

@random that's a unsatisfactory answer

AstroCB

@random It's just one way of doing it: you don't have to if you don't want to.

Braiam

both flags are broken from the workflow standpoint, either way

AstroCB

@Braiam The button takes 750 milliseconds.

random

There's a difference between, "this is a comment" and "this is gibberish"

bjb568

1:36 AM

But who said all VLQ has to be "this is gibberish"?

What defines a comment?

random

Who defines everything in sight being VLQ when other flag choices are more appropriate?

bjb568

And if it's not built into the system, what real difference is there in the treatment of the flags?

@random Who defines other flag choices as more appropriate?

random

When's the last time you flagged anything as anything other than VLQ?

If you keep flagging everything as VLQ, then your judgement will be seen as suspect

bjb568

@random A couple of hours ago: spam.

Braiam

@random and that's where you moderators are wrong. Not an answer doesn't imply that it's a comment, implies that the answer doesn't answer that question

Andy

1:39 AM

8

A: Am I misusing the "Very Low Quality" flag?

Use VLQ for obvious, unarguable garbage. Regardless of whether or not it ends up in /review or the mod queue (and most of the time, it'll end up in both at least for a little while...) VLQ flags on questions that should be closed just create unnecessary overhead - someone else has to spend more...

Braiam

one of such cases is when it's actually a comment

bjb568

Shog said that. But we aren't supposed to flag because the mod tools are broken.

Andy

Right there it is said

hichris123

How about this @bjb568: can you or the OP fix the question? If so, then it's not VLQ. And just about the only questions that can't be fixed... are cat-on-keyboard questions.

bjb568

Obvious garbage, I'd argue. But nothing is unarguable. There's always bad arguments.

hichris123

1:40 AM

And if you close the questions, they'll be auto-deleted in 7 days.

random

@Braiam Not answering the question is one thing. Not making any sense or not even being on topic is another thing completely.

bjb568

@hichris123 No, there's more that can't be fixed. A lot more.

hichris123

@bjb568 Like what?

bjb568

@random Not an answer is supposed to mean not an answer. That's it. There's a special case for when it requires the question to determine if it's NAA which would ideally not be there, but because of broken mod tools is.

random

If "I want to delete this" is the thing that can't be fixed, get the reputation to do so. Not to proxy 10k users via VLQ.

bjb568

1:41 AM

@hichris123 Recommendation questions, for example. I guess you can edit them into too broad.

Braiam

@random I'm pointing out that your interpretation as how flags should be used, how the users actually use them and how SE intended to be used are very different

bjb568

@random Shog said VLQ is a recommend deletion flag.

Andy

@bjb568 Or, you can use the off topic reason regarding recommendations.

random

You don't need to insta-delete everything just because you see it has a downvote

2

bjb568

@Braiam Yes, also the Mod/LQ-reviewer divide is a big thing.

Braiam

1:42 AM

which is aggravated by the fact that VLQ's and NAA's end in the VLQRQ, so the workflow and interpretation of both flags is inefficient

bjb568

@Andy That's a close vote. Which I did.

@random Unless it has no value.

Andy

@bjb568 How, exactly, are you determining if it has no value?

bjb568

Siiigh, I gtg.

@Andy I can't. That's part of the problem.

Braiam

some flags end "helpful" when handled by users and declined when handled by moderators... this shouldn't happen despite what Shog said that reviewers tend to err in the "lets keep this around" more often than modw

the only sane usage of the VLQ and NAA flags where the rules are very clear for mods and users is in SoftRec

hichris123

49

A: What exactly is a recommendation question?

Short answer? "Recommendation question" is shorthand for "you didn't describe a problem, you just asked for a list of things." create a pdf from a pdf in PHP? Is there a PDF library for PDF that can start with an existing PDF and add more things on to it? Currently I'm using ezPDF but ...

If they're not "What is your favorite IDE", edit and salvage them!

@Braiam Yeah, and that's kinda because VLQ flags on questions shouldn't even be around.

Braiam

1:46 AM

@Shog what I was talking about why mods needs to see the context of the question ^

hichris123

35

Q: It shouldn’t be possible to flag questions as Very Low Quality

The “very low quality” flag, on questions, is vague. It means “do something”, and that’s not helpful. I think it’s pretty well covered by the variety of flaggable close reasons/an actual close vote, and “other”. It’s rarely helpful when a question “needs” to be closed faster, but an edit dismisse...

Braiam

users are shown the context, while mods are not, you are asking them to evaluate two different things so the end result is confusion among the users

hichris123

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25354613/…

@animuson Then check if any of the plagiarizers have socks!

Dave Chen

why does the system think I deleted the first in? I deleted the second one! :P

hichris123

2:06 AM

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25345608/…

Jamal

@hichris123 WTF

hichris123

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24952195/…

@Jamal It's probably a spam email, and the person who asked the question now has a virus... :/

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/18407572/flashing-glass-boot-img

bjb568

2:22 AM

@hichris123 "can u recommend jquery so lib for good site"

Braiam

►

warning: I'm sharing this video ^, not because is any good, but because the "WTF"

Jamal

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/4320334/…

Braiam

@Jamal tl;dr cv web-hosting

Jamal

2:44 AM

And it's gone!

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25355630/…

And the answers are terrible; they all mention the same thing.

hichris123

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25352900/…

bjb568

"Any sufficiently ignorant person is indistinguishable from stupid."

user163250

3:03 AM

@Braiam dude, that is hilarious!

user163250

"Punchy McBritches" LOLOLOLOLOL

user163250

I can't tell if they hired dancers or actual martial artists to act in that thing.

user163250

Maybe a combination of both.

AstroCB

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25355819/…

Don't you just love it when people use tags marked "DO NOT USE THIS TAG?"

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24894504/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/24801001/…

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/25179017/…

Shog9

3:43 AM

@Braiam mods tend to be a lot more consistent about enforcing the rules as they see them. Reviewers tend toward passing stuff that looks reasonable and damning it if it looks bad.

It probably helps that reviewers can't actually decline NAA/VLQ flags, much less decline them with messages.

"Oh, those roboreviewers wasted my flag. This is all Shog's fault. Having diagnosed the situation to my satisfaction, I shall now have a beer."

vs.

"Oh, that bastard mod declined my flag and insulted my honor. RAAAAAGE!"

And of course, no one gets notified if 90 of their last 100 flags were disputed.

animuson

Why doesn't a mod clicking Looks Ok in review not decline the flag? Didn't that used to happen?

bjb568

Double negative. Confused.

tchrist

4:25 AM

@bjb568 Horn's rule: Simplex Negatio Negat; Duplex Negatio Affirmat; Triplex Negatio Confundit.

You aren’t supposed to get confused until you get to three. :)

SilentKiller

4:46 AM

morning morning

Infinite Recursion

morning

SilentKiller

@InfiniteRecursion hows you.?

Infinite Recursion

@SilentKiller I am yellow (sunny, happy) :)

hows you?

SilentKiller

@InfiniteRecursion i am red with infection in eye.

Infinite Recursion

@SilentKiller ohh! hope you get well and white soon.

animuson

4:55 AM

Uck this new bug bite medication my mom bought smells like rubber cement...

Infinite Recursion

@bjb568 Get a ♦ or get reborn as a duck. No entry for cats in the room.

animuson

3

bjb568

       ,~~.
      (  6 )-_,
 (\___ )=='-'
  \ .   ) )
   \ `-' /
~'`~'`~'`~'`~

2

I iz duck. Tis iz self portrait. @Cupcake Let me in!

animuson

@animuson Available at Shirt.Woot! I'm tempted to buy one...

Infinite Recursion

@bjb568 Lies! Try ♦ instead.

bjb568

5:14 AM

5

It's a super secret beta site.

@Cupcake Let me in!

DroidDev

@bjb568 I think super secret site forgot to put commas "," in rep points :P :P

bjb568

@DroidDev They're letting me beta-test their new UI.

animuson

1337, 42, and... 69?

4

bjb568

For example, switching language packs gives me this:

The text is translated back by Google Ultron Translator, of course.

Any way, enough secrets revealed, I need to go to bed. Night!

DroidDev

@bjb568 night

!

Closevotes

Transcript for