01:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

1:42 AM
🚽

2:25 AM
23 messages moved to Chimney
1 message moved to Chimney

4 hours later…
6:15 AM

7:14 AM
6 messages moved to Chimney

Good noon folks. What's up.
-32

I wrote the following query on data.stackexchange.com. It returned some astonishing results. https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1273685/stackoverflow-average-votes-vs-viewed-count Observations Newer questions are getting fewer and fewer visits. Average votes per questions are dec...

Ouch . . .

Yeah, I saved them a lot of rep!

It's no wonder that stats can easily be used to lie.
Biden apparently made a very smart choice for his VP. Here's to hoping cheetos loses and the standards are raised a bit again
Exams are almost over, I can go back to binge-reading and procrastinating \o/
Also, it's been long enough and I think I can take learning German more seriously now.
How are things on your end?

@Tinkeringbell I was wondering why you moved it but I didn't consider the option "because the mod is being nice". ;)

@M.A.R. I saw a thread on Twitter that the VP is also supporting a lot of Trumps antics?

7:27 AM
@M.A.R. Es ist ein bischen warm an diesem Ort.

@rene I was feeling nice, and I'm also kinda tired with all the SO stuff turning up on MSE, and this one was just really wrong but not badly written so...

@Tinkeringbell AFAIK she's a successful prosecutor so the republicans cannot pretend anymore that "Biden's going to be soft on crime", which has been one of Trump's main attacks on "sleepy Biden". She called Biden racist at one time, and now Biden says 'I'm electing someone that will correct me on issues of race' Really smart move O.o Not to forget she's African–American which plays well in the post-Floyd environment

This one was okay to have indeed.

I've also heard some negative things about her, but what renowned US politician is there without some blotch on their political record at one time or another?
@rene Ich Esse Kartoffel.
As one semi-eloquent Redditor put it, "I would have voted if he chose onion and liver sandwich for VP"

@M.A.R. Und schmeckt es dich?

7:33 AM
@rene I dunno, tastes a bit like potato

that matches ;)

For us Iranians, as an enemy I prefer a smart calm-and-collected trickster over a racist populist any day.

Yeah, I can imagine that.

Anything new happened on SE/SO?
After the 85 M fundraising
> If a user asks for upvotes in the comments in Stack Overflow will it be considered as an ABUSE?
Anti-Brass Uranium Safe Extractor?
Abolished Beach Umbrellas Screaming "Eternity!"?

7:50 AM
@M.A.R. I mean, I do hope it plays out well :)

@M.A.R. not that I've seen... hence the lack of new pins :)

@M.A.R. nothing yet
Looks like we might see a new pm soon, the opening dropped off the work here page.
@M.A.R. a bus e

8:09 AM
@M.A.R. I wouldn't count on Biden your time.

in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 5 hours ago, by Cody Gray
Here's the thing: I will nuke any comment that contains the words "downvote" or "upvote" literally on sight, and if I nuke more than a couple of such comments from you, I'm going to be sending you a moderator message to cease and desist.
Is that an official rule?

Cody said it, we'll make it one ;)

It is for Charcoal. Each votes correctly, not how they are told.

@Tinkeringbell I was hoping for the opposite.

Why?

8:13 AM
I mean, "why the downvote" isn't a good way to put it, but "how do I improve my post" I would think beneficial
But apparently that too causes problems?

Do we have to click on that to see if there's a twist?

I'm not sure. Either sounds like a way to start arguing about how your post is perfect?

That wasn't the intent though, so is there a good way to convey the intent?
It should be assumed, but that too causes trouble

I think the intent is always that an OP is open to improving their post?

8:19 AM
"Why the downvote?" comments are useless. "How can I improve this?" is different.
3

It's a good one to think about fixing, but I do think comments aren't the way to express two 'assumptions' inherent to the system:
a.) The original poster of a post is always open to suggestion for improvement
b.) People downvoting or close-voting a post will point out if there are possible improvements.

Anonymous comments on downvoting would be open to abuse, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Seems the best option is to just take pride in the occasional mysterious chain of downvotes on very old questions.

something about lost keys or just a pissed off group of people?

8:27 AM
I do suppose it could be a major coincidence :D

Nah, coincidences are red and round, and when you throw them at the door, the phone rings.

I know there was a deeper reason I dislike them.

8:39 AM
I do think that anonymous comments could be made to work. They can still be flagged.
(unless I'm missing something, which I likely am)

They'll likely fail on pattern recognition for users as well as moderators (if we assume moderators can't immediately see who commented on their posts).
I'm absolutely no fan of people claiming that X user is always commenting on their posts (if the comments are valid suggestions for improvements/criticism on meta posts). But it helps to have a mod flag once in a while about people always being kinda rude ;)

Right... people would try to guess who posted the comment. Not good.

@JohnDvorak I was more thinking of the false positive flags I've sometimes seen when names are visible :P But that's one too, yes.

Is there a meta discussion on the topic of where/how/if to solicit for feedback?

I don't think so, not networkwide that I can think of. I'm also not sure if this should be networkwide policy or something better raised on different meta sites, to see how their communities think about this.

8:55 AM
Thanks.

Whatever I did, you're welcome :P

Apparently clicking on it does provide the twist; the comment one before the one referenced above:
in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 6 hours ago, by TheMaster
@CodyGray Take my meta question for example. I really had no idea why people were downvoting it.. until i finally had to ask after -10 each on both q and a. Then, finally 2 people commented and I understood my question was too technical and unclear. I modified it and was able to get some upvotes.

Is that a twist?

9:13 AM
One might have thought the conversation was about:
1 hour ago, by John Dvorak
Is that an official rule?
But it was about someone asking for a comment about how to improve their post, which they received, and they were able to make the improvement; to the benefit of everyone. But, someone steps in and says their own interpretation and offers to penalize people for actions not being discussed; their position isn't well received and comes to a point (several comments later) where they offer to remain silent.

@Rob that's the user name, prefer to not show it. It's actually just a name of a school.
Anyway.... sadly enough, the whole task has been frozen until a new notice since the client made new requirements which needs too much development time. Thanks for all the help though!
@JohnDvorak it's risky to express opinion or explain votes on SO, nothing new. Any comment can, and likely will, offend someone.
Safe path: don't comment.

9:31 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask The question asked, in RTL, shouldn't that be on the other side? (Don't need to know the blanked portion, but the order also being LTR supports the question / point, that it should start from the right; not be in the upper left corner).

in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 4 mins ago, by MrUpsidown
@CodyGray Still, dumping some code, with a MCVE and a clear description of the issue is what I consider a good question. I don't see why it would not benefit to anyone else. I now understand there are very different views here about what is a good question. I now got a moderator message warning me that my behavior on SO is unacceptable because I down voted several answers from the same user when IMO none of them were a good fit to the site. But fine. I will refrain myself from voting.

@JohnDvorak yep exactly the reason why many people avoid SO, and rightly so.
Way too strict moderation.
And now with the social wind blowing from SE direction... it also cause even more people to leave, or just not take part.
@Rob oh. Well, the basic design we got from the designer was that the caption is to the right, and the user name plus logout link to the left.
@Rob not relevant for my paying, I get fixed monthly salary - in that case it was frozen because there are more urgent tasks that can't be delayed any longer.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask That's nothing new though... you create a certain culture, all goes fine for a while, then people slowly start applying pressure to change the culture... and it either goes fine or it causes strife... but in the end, all the people that were 'go back to wherever you came from with your culture' are gone, and what's left mixes into a new culture.
Empires rise and fall, and from the rubble...

@Tinkeringbell many times when empire falls, nothing emerge from the rubbles.

I have my 1K+ rep there, which adequately demonstrates my participation; having achieved that I was gone.

9:44 AM

Ottoman?

The Inca Empire (Quechua: Tawantinsuyu, lit. "The Four Regions"), also known as the Incan Empire and the Inka Empire, was the largest empire in pre-Columbian America. The administrative, political and military center of the empire was located in the city of Cusco. The Inca civilization arose from the Peruvian highlands sometime in the early 13th century. Its last stronghold was conquered by the Spanish in 1572. From 1438 to 1533, the Incas incorporated a large portion of western South America, centered on the Andean Mountains, using conquest and peaceful assimilation, among other methods. At its...
What came from the rubble when they fell?

What emerged, the ottoman?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Well, some of the rubble is still incorporated in modern culture...

At the tourist store.

9:45 AM
@Tinkeringbell but was their knowledge preserved or being used? I don't think so.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask I would have to dig, there probably is something somewhere :)

Also.... to name newer example... GeoCities.... :D
> Current status Defunct
lol
Need ideas what to eat for lunch....

Gotta love da funked.
🍕

But 1) Waiting time is ~30 minutes, and 2) Whole pizza cost too much and too big for personal use. Sometimes the boss buy pizza(s) for everyone, but today he's away.

9:49 AM
Might but a bagel with cheese and veggies.

People still use Llama's as pack animals ;)

@Tinkeringbell rofl... well, that's correct. You win. :D
So when SE will fall, people will take the voting arrows and use them. ;)

Something like that :P
> Despite concerted efforts by the Spanish to eradicate Incan influence altogether, the lasting impacts of Incan culture finds expression in many ways. You can see it in everything from the pottery practices in common housewares and religious objects to the reed water crafts used by fishermen and built using century-old knowledge. In this way, elements of ancient Incan tradition seem likely to thrive for many centuries to come.

(in 60-80 years, of course)

9:51 AM
Sometimes, parts of one religion integrate into another, that's another one.

[wafts screen, smell towards Sha]

@Rob not Kosher ;)
In the area around my workplace, only Kosher places. :/
I can go beyond of course but.... lazy.

I don't know what's in it, but that costs 3 bucks; 14" across.

hmm... well there is McDonalds which isn't Kosher, but I don't feel like burger today.

Church's Chicken (equivalent)?

9:53 AM
Sometimes I buy a 50cm pizza (thin crust, not the American stuff). Two people, dinner and breakfast

Noun: Bürger m (genitive Bürgers, plural Bürger, female Bürgerin)
1. citizen, inhabitant, resident; legally recognized inhabitant of a city or state
2. bourgeois, burgher, member of the middle class
3. (historical) burgher, freeman, usually richer and/or more influential than a peasant/worker but poorer and/or less influential than a nobleman

I'm wondering, would it make sense to hide the post list on other users' profiles?

I'm not sure, why were they added? :P

When were they?

Chop out 'the middle' of the Profile and Activity page; replace with what, or just make the page shorter (and why). There's probably a UserScript for that ™.

We need a new browser, quick!
(or a way to prevent updates on Android and the last good version, as a stopgap)
I have found a repository of old APKs, but I don't know if they won't self-update

@Rob lol good find!
@JohnDvorak what post list? The "Newest posts" section in the profile page?

yes

After you've had lunch you'll feel better.

Ideally, the sections will be 100% customize-able, and each user will be able to choose which sections to see, and where they'll be located.
But that's just me dreaming. lol
Anyway, in the current design and state of things, no - it won't make sense to hide it.

10:14 AM
I mean, it's a great tool for serial downvoters and ... nobody else?

err..... no?

Except mods of course

I use it to just see what user posts.

but you aren't allowed to vote on the posts anyways

10:16 AM
@JohnDvorak or a good fork

@JohnDvorak Don't forget about the serial upvoters!

those are the worst

Yeah.

@JohnDvorak That's one of the things that the 'Serial Voting Detector' looks for, visiting there and going through the user's posts; it says that in the FAQ, ... somewhere ...

10:33 AM
It does?! I thought that stuff was supposed to be super secret?

2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence; and further down "How does ...":
507

What is voting fraud? Voting fraud is the systematic voting against correct voting rationales. Fraud most often happens with a single user continually voting (up or down) on many of your posts within a short period of time. This is not considered normal behavior and the system will not allow it. ...

Should have said second section, instead of paragraph. "They saw a post of yours that was extraordinarily helpful to them and they feel that going through your posts systematically and upvoting them is the appropriate way of granting you additional reputation (the bounty system is the proper way to do so). ... Every night around 03:00 UTC, a voting fraud detection script is run that looks for patterns such as these. It basically looks for users who have voted on another ...".

11:01 AM
@rene your comment got cut off: 3dprinting.stackexchange.com/questions/6574/… -- you might want to edit your MS comment to add that back in: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/258356

@Rob thanks!

✔️

11:23 AM
@Tinkeringbell It doesn't always work: i.stack.imgur.com/fHcZj.jpg

@Rob Well those obviously aren't serial :P

Here's someone who didn't eat their cereal:
So what I take from this is that StackExchange does not have something like community managers who could, dunno, chat with some people and figure out a solution, and I (a user who is essentially volunteering their time) should go and fix this obvious UX issue myself? No thank you, and I don't think I'll be giving feedback in the future. — Taschi 4 mins ago
Luckily, our time is free to waste.

Yeah, I think I have a comment there as well

With 4 upvotes, how dare you.

11:39 AM
@Rob yeah, I'm pretty good at leaving comments that attract upvotes. Just judge the opinion of the casual reader and phrase it so they agree. Profit. Personally I think it is outrageous that those icons look so familiar but hey, everything for the popularity vote.

Those icons are nearly identical if you're color blind (slightly different as one is bendy but small it's hard to see this).
I still don't need to have them changed though. The title of the question usually tells me which site it is

Chat mini-challenge: create a question title that might plausibly exist both on Puzzling and Workplace.

There have been two at least

But let's be honest: pretty much anything is a plausible question title on Puzzling.
Also, I do think this could be an interesting daily challenge, with the two sites being rerolled randomly each day.

One was about "puzzles during free time" (workplace about employee lounge) and .... Actually there are a few puzzles that use the workplace as part of it but only seen one on Hot

11:50 AM
Language site combos would be hard :D
Should I create a bot?
Best titles would be voted on multiple transferable vote style except with public votes

16

I like to work individually, but I work in groups. I like to work in my office, but I work in the field. Yet I am satisfied. What am I?

2
I came here for a workplace question, I always confuse the logos... — Noir Jul 26 '16 at 8:42
That question was also the first time I upvoted or even encountered Mithical for an added bonus

12:24 PM
Currently very intentionally taking up two seats on the bus by blocking the seat next to me with my bag so that nobody sits next to me.

In before the transport company starts counting fare for bags that occupy seats

It's the first time I've been on a bus in like five months
...which is why my semi-regular complaints in here about the bus system dropped off suddenly in case anybody noticed

@JohnDvorak Challenge met.

@Mithical lol

12:33 PM
@Mithical did the bus system get better in the mean time?

no

awaits complaint

First complaint: the fact that I had to block off the seat next to me myself means they're doing it wrong

@Mithical Uggh

12:49 PM
@Tinkeringbell I have already written thrice during the past one month, never received any reply so I tried to write it here. I will try again to write to them. — Saif 5 mins ago
That's something we hear a lot lately, people not getting a reply. Is it really that bad or are some users trying to stir up trouble that's not there?

Contact is known to not respond a large percentage of the time

@Mast There probably isn't much to respond too, so I doubt writing a fourth time would help. Especially if it's about deleted socks that were used to evade suspensions, like Martijn said.
We know the response time of contact-us is loooong.
I don't know about how often no reply follows at all, but I do think the recent wave of 'I was suspended/had accounts deleted on SO and didn't hear back within 3 business days from contact-us' is giving a bit more of a negative image than it really deserves.

By the meta posts you'd say it's getting worse.

There's definitely and increase in numbers of people complaining about a suspension somewhere other than MSE :P
That's getting worse, yeah XD
You could write a (preferably very bland and neutral) meta post asking about the average response time, perhaps for things like people asking about suspensions or sock pupped account removals specifically... I don't know if you'll get an answer though. There's been one recent one already that doesn't have an official answer either: meta.stackexchange.com/a/339848/369802

A blogger in the making ...

1:10 PM
^That one seems scammy at the very least.
They have another, exactly similar, answer.

Almost a copy, like it's the answer to everything; with a bit of tweaking before the punchline.

1:32 PM
@Mithical well, most people don't care, that's the reason the second wave isn't going anywhere, maybe only becoming worse.
If people would really care, it would have been gone long ago.

See? Even Smokey.
:P
@SmokeDetector here is your new avatar: /cc @ArtOfCode ;)
@Tinkeringbell mod just deleted that other answer.
Well if I'm here alone, I'll at least brew something.
!!/coffee Ollie

setting room on fire by accident

@rene were they gone?!
Well maybe they just needed a vacation.
:D

LOL

2:41 PM
@Rob Pfft. I don't want no JCPOA.

3:02 PM

For starters, gotta remove the floating eyes

And the ears...

@Catija I don't see any ears ...

Ah. OK

3:12 PM
If people are seriously interested, and not just replying to Sha's joke I can respin it.

@Rob Go for it. I'm sure @ArtOfCode will like it. And maybe change SD to use it :)

Roberta Arcoverde on August 12, 2020
Roberta Arcoverde, tech lead for Stack Overflow Teams, provides a deep dive into the decisions that shaped the architecture of Articles, an entirely new content type.

3:38 PM
@M.A.R. Reports are that it was popular, also unclear if they were paid to celebrate.

Positive bus change: they've redone the bus stop where the drivers would always pass right by without stopping so now the drivers can see if there are people there.

4:20 PM
Brrrr
Why is the AC on so strong on this bus

Because the busdriver has to wear a longsleeved button shirt and long pants, with closed shoes and socks? :P

Wearing a sweatshirt, closed the vents, and still cold

@Tinkeringbell At least round here the bus drivers are provided with uniform shorts and short sleeved shirts to wear in the summer. They do have a strong union if that makes a difference.

@Rob it was popular among young people and leftists, and was opposed by conservatives (so yeah, popular). Turned out people aren't as politics savvy as they think and it was a whole lot of wishful thinking. Turned out rightists were right, so it makes it a difficult topic to even be reminded of. AFAIK the US clearly had the upper hand, we didn't get scrap out of the deal, and it was essentially a leash so we wouldn't have anything to negotiate with in the future.
It was IMHO a frigging fiasco on our part

@DavidPostill I was thinking of that time 3 years ago when bus drivers in France started wearing skirts ;)

4:25 PM
Read Obama on how much it was conjectured we'd gain, and how much we really did gain.

I know over here they can wear short sleeves, I have no idea about the pants. Never paid much attention to be honest.
I know train personnel always wears long pants.

I've definitely seen the bus drivers in short sleeves
Can't see from my vantage point at the moment though

Bus drivers here don't have uniforms, and are solely male
Busses here are probably more of a pollutant than the 40 cars they're supposed to replace
Public transportation was already a tragedy before COVID. Can't imagine how they're faring now :(
The whole world is concerned about the economic hit it's taking and we're all like "jokes on you, I'm into that sh!t"
The state media is silent as a sleeping baby

sleeping babies can make a surprising lot of noise.

I just ruined your day. You're welcome
@Tinkeringbell only when their internal alarm goes off

4:31 PM
Heh. You'd have to bring stuff stronger than that to ruin a day which started by seeing 'Hyves' being trending on Twitter and finding out that's because Facebook and Instagram have decided to ban images of Black Pete that aren't used to say Black Pete is racist :P

"It has been precisely 119 minutes since I've disturbed the big hoomans' peace"
I think I've told you that mom keeps telling me I used to cry exactly from 9 to 11 p.m.

No, you didn't, I think.
Now you did though.
That's weird.

I'd been punctual all that time, and now I'm making up for it, to be sure

I was two weeks late to my own birth, apparently.
Then took long enough to land mom in hospital.

They were looking for bread supplies :p
BBL gonna teach little bro some chemistry

4:35 PM
Good luck!

5:02 PM
@Tinkeringbell Hmm. I was eight weeks early.

5:47 PM
see the starting

5:59 PM
how's the weather in here?

Better than in real life

warm

6:30 PM

2 hours later…
8:15 PM

@Mithical wow, nice!
@rene whoops
I'll fix the leak.
@Mithical hey, same here!
פגים rulz!
:D

8:32 PM
@Catija @YaakovEllis @g3rv4 @NickCraver AI has been at 10+ q/day on more than 50% of the days in the last several months (often even at 20+ q/day). I am curious if they are being considered for graduation, because "When a site starts to consistently receive 10 questions/day, we’ll consider it for graduation."

@Catija Really?
I knew it became a multi-stage graduation process rather than a single-step one.

No... we're kinda getting rid of the "graduation" concept entirely. It gives too much expectation that there's anything wrong with being in beta still.
Beta sites are sites... the imposition of things like minimum QPD is... just a false ideal. Many sites that hit that target in the past no longer hit it any more.

I agree. There's some "graduated" sites with nearly 0 questions/day, hahaha

So it makes little sense to require that a site hit that point and then... do what? If a site is stable, knows its scope, has ducks in row... that's what it needs... but we haven't gotten that project completed and I don't know when that will happen.

8:41 PM
Like WindowsPhone.SE

The big difference is still privilege levels, if you want to get rid of graduation you have to find something better than the current binary switch between beta and graduated privilege levels

Even privilege levels aren't a difference. The sites with no custom theme don't have the higher privilege levels.

Not that this matters all that much, as we probably won't have any new sites in the future

That got tied to the theme for some reason... and, well... as far as I'm concerned, a site that needs the higher privilege levels should be able to request them independently of being beta or not or having a design or not... And sites that aren't beta often can't support a community at the higher reputation levels.

8:43 PM
... that has less to do with an active and engaged community and more to do with voting culture.

The privilege levels should simply be tied to the number of active users that can close vote.

Yes.
Precisely.

I remember the Gaming site just out of beta when I joined. It had something like 4-5 users with 3k rep at that point, so the community couldn't actually close stuff until a few weeks or months later

AI has 33,600 users, which is more than most sites had at full graduation!

@user1271772 Community ads are tied to non-beta sites because they're manual. We don't have an automation for them, otherwise they'd be network-wide. If we can get them automated, anyone can have them but... even sites that have them often don't use them.
Users != active users.

8:45 PM
wasn't there some kind of... bot spam asking people to sign up for it for 

True, they do have 514 avid users though.

AI only has 2 10 k users which means that only mods would be able to delete questions.

@user400654 Really? I didn't know that
@Catija Okay

So, even if AI wanted to not be beta, I wouldn't change their rep levels.

might have been a different beta site, i can't recall
but it was very recently, last few weeks

8:46 PM
@Catija The community can't really delete stuff anyway on any site except the few extremely active ones.
The privilege levels were designed for SO, and never changed later.

Three delete votes on NAAs isn't that hard to get.

Data Science at 0 people above 7000 rep, when it was launched! area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/55053/data-science

@Catija I'm pretty sure it's out of reach for all the smaller sites

They also only have ~8 people who have the rep to close, and are around often, so that's... not great.

Quantitative Finance had only 3 people at 10k: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/117/quantitative-finance

8:48 PM
They also don't have higher rep levels...
So... Not an issue.

My understanding though, is that for the multi-stage "graduation", the rep changes was often the last thing to change. So I wouldn't expect AI to change rep level yet, but maybe the community ads could be done.

I'd probably require at least 20-25 users with close votes that have logged in the last month for automatic graduation. You can probably get a better threshold by crunching the data from actual sites, but it does need to be comfortably bigger than the 5 votes to close

Again... "graduation" and rep levels are not in any way tied.

@user400654 You're talking about Ziliqa, which was in A51 commitment, not in Beta.

@user1271772 they don't need high rep users when they just destroy people asking bad questions ;-)

8:50 PM
And having close votes isn't the same as using them. If none of the high rep users bother with review, it's irrelevant.

@MadScientist I'm not extremely familiar with that site.

oh... area51 isn't the same as beta?

No. Area 51 sites aren't actual sites yet.

@user1271772 There was an incident a long time ago where a mod destroyed a user for posting low quality questions (which in this case meant questions someone without a PhD in economics would ask). This caused a bit of drama, and then someone explained to the mods there in which cases destroying users is appropriate

I would like to find the probability density function (at stationarity) of the random variable $X_t$, where: \begin{equation*} dX_t = -aX_t dt + d N_t, \end{equation*} $a$ is a constant and $N_t$ is a compound Poisson process with Poisson jump size distribution. In other words, $X_t$ solves the ...