Tavern on the Meta

12:41 AM

Could anyone help me find link to a post about algorithms used at SO/SE to help surface low impact requests/feedback from users and prevent them from perpetually being at the bottom of the priority pile. It could have been a tweet or a meta post by shog9 or jon clements. My browser was running incognito so I can't view yesterday's browsing history.

I may be butchering exactly what the post was about.... it was along those lines.

i have looked through both shog and jon's recent tweets but couldn't find the post i'm after. It may have been an old post that i followed a link to.

Journeyman Geek

1:11 AM

@Dhaust I don't think there's such a thing

That issue tracking on meta isn't great is a bit of an ongoing issue

Dhaust

@JourneymanGeek it could have been discussing that there -should- be such a thing

Journeyman Geek

Hm

Dhaust

It was in reference to the recent posts by SO/SE staff about using data to discover that meta users really do matter.

again, sorry if i'm butchering that summary

This post... stackoverflow.blog/2020/02/17/…

jmac

@JonEricson I would have used something a bit more ominous, though 80's toothpaste commercials may have given gingivitis that tone as well. Anyway, I live in Japan, health is never an excuse to miss an appointment -- far better to show your dedication to work by infecting everyone (gingivitis is contagious, right?)

Journeyman Geek

Oh

jmac

1:24 AM

No.

Journeyman Geek

😄

@Dhaust that I think I can dig up

Dhaust

i'm digging through shog's tweets again. it may have been @jlericson no clements.

jmac

@Dhaust twitter.com/shog9/status/1230668527738048512

Pinned on the right as well, I think that's what you're referring to.

Dhaust

@jmac i think that's the post i started on. i followed some links and that's where my memory gets fuzzy.

@JourneymanGeek @jmac i found it. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/343890/…

thanks for your rubber duck debugging help.

jmac

1:42 AM

It's been a while. I forgot how awesome Shog was at explaining problems.

Dhaust

I know. I read that and it really hit home. For SO/SE, and my experiences at my own workplace.

jmac

Shog recently taught me about Pournelle's Law, and it seemed quite apt: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

> In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

5

Dhaust

I get sad because things like that are true.

Very eloquently put though.

I hope to be as well-read as Shog someday.

jmac

It's just practice. If you write as much on meta as he has, you too will be passively introduced to all sorts of new content/ideas you had never heard of, and will get a knack for writing well in the process as an added bonus.

Dhaust

Very true. But he always seemed to remain a student, happy to acknowledge his weaknesses and praise others who we could all be inspired by.

Admirable traits.

jmac

1:56 AM

This sounds like an impromptu eulogy. Thankfully Shog is still with us.

Dhaust

haha.

cheers for your help finding that comment. later.

jmac

Enjoy.

Journeyman Geek

2:14 AM

@Dhaust lol sorry. On helpdesk....

Shog9

and the call went out, through all the land: "jmac is in The Tavern again!"

(h/t @Catija)

Catija

:D

Shog9

I always love showing up here & reading eulogies for myself. What luck - Tom & Huck only got to attend their own funeral once!

But... Gotta be honest: it's places like this that kept me honest: folks like Pops & @jmac being quick to remind me that there's a lot I don't know ;)

So I think the lesson is: never be too reluctant to take someone down a peg, nor to be taken down in kind.

In other news: just signed my paperwork confirming that I'm eligible to work in the US and like money put into specific accounts. So I'm officially no longer unemployed!

20

Spevacus

Ayyyy!

Catija

@Shog9 WHOOOOOO!

Shog9

2:34 AM

Indeed. Whoooooo

Rob

2:54 AM

It was the bell jar image that sealed the deal!

Cerberus_Reinstate-Monica

@Shog9 This is good.

I can howl another eulogy if you like.

Shog9

An... Awooolugy?

Cerberus_Reinstate-Monica

3:12 AM

How do you know my accent??

curious

@Shog9 :'-)

Soon you'll get caninized

Cerberus_Reinstate-Monica

Heh.

Journeyman Geek

3:24 AM

@Shog9 wait. Why wouldn't you be eligible to work in the us? 😄

And Someone made a great hire

Catija

Standard part of documentation for starting a new job. Give them either a passport or a photo id and proof of citizenship.

(Passport counts as both photo id and proof of citizenship).

Journeyman Geek

Ah..uhm...

Don't ever recall ever having to do that 0_0

But this is Singapore and it's probably all automated through MOM

Catija

nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/…

MOM knows all! She loves you!

Journeyman Geek

Ministry of Manpower 😄

ert

@Catija You need to show proof? Here we just tick a box stating we're eligible to work here

I suppose here we need to provide our tax details... so they'll find out pretty quickly whether or not we're eligible

Catija

3:35 AM

Yup.

Journeyman Geek

I'm a little curious to how stuff like CPF (our mandatory retirement fund), leave for reservist (military is supposed to pay you and its 'mandatory' for local employers) and taxes work for remote employees in singapore

Rob

"Proof" is unusual for me too. I send my resume, they call me for an interview, I bring copies of my diplomas, often they hire. After hiring I fill out some forms. I've only been asked for ID once.

Catija

Here's the info about the form (I-9) and why it exists (for anyone who's interested): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_I-9

ert

@JourneymanGeek Our super (equivalent to your CPF) depends entirely on resident status

Rob

@Catija Hmmm, nope. I've had a couple of jobs involving driving other people's vehicles and not been asked for a driver's license. I don't deny that there's a bunch of stuff other people have to do, but except for one occasion I've never been asked (and those people were lacking, I explained that to them when I quit).

Catija

3:50 AM

Huh?

jmac

@Shog9 "remind" seems to be the wrong word here. How about we say that we've interjected our thoughts into your stream of consciousness enough times that we diverted the flow slightly?

Jon Ericson

4:05 AM

@Shog9 I was employed several days before I did the first and I'm still not sure I did the second properly. But not being unemployed is certainly good news. :-)

Shog9

@JonEricson funny story - I had to get my I-9 signed by a notary, which is what customs and immigration recommends for that circumstance. I'm... Pretty sure I just filled it in for SO. 🤷‍♂️

Guess ICE is checking paperwork a bit more enthusiastically these days...

Journeyman Geek

@ert ah see

there's a employee and employer component

and I don't think if you don't have an office here, the latter is enforcable

Catija

@Shog9 I had to get mine notarized... the prior job I had, one of their HR people is a notary and she did it for me.

ert

@JourneymanGeek I suppose it depends how the company is structured, and where it pays taxes

Journeyman Geek

@ert yup

If they had a singapore office/registration it would be simpler - I worked for a UK company that just had another company handle payroll etc

ert

4:21 AM

As citizens, we can't even access our super even if we leave forever

Actually, it seems even permanent residents can't

Journeyman Geek

Likewise I think

Rob

Catija, your explanation of what you had to do differs from 4-5 other people explaining that they didn't have to do that. Do you work at Area 51?

Journeyman Geek

@Rob please look at the end of the device... WHOOSH

Rob

Jan 6 at 20:47, by Tinkeringbell

Coool... floats away

Catija

4:49 AM

@Rob Not quite sure what you mean. I'm citing US rules... so...

Rob

@Catija Here's the rules for everywhere else, really no different: books.google.ca/… and linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/83632/…

Catija

I'm... not quite sure why you're making an issue of this? Geek was confused about why Shog listed work eligibility, I explained it. The policy everywhere else is immaterial, Shog's working for an American company in the US.

Journeyman Geek

Yup

And is American

Rob

I didn't realize you were confused about what shog said, when you wrote:

2 hours ago, by Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 wait. Why wouldn't you be eligible to work in the us? 😄

Journeyman Geek

@Rob Why else would I ask? Shog is an american, working in the US, for a presumably american company

Rob

5:04 AM

He's been working for a US company for years, so it's rhetorical.

Shog9

Ah. Yeah... Just US internal Gov't wackiness coupled with the twist of remote work: normally you just show up with 1-2 forms of ID on your first day and everything is copacetic, but since the Gov't won't allow employers to accept photos of your ID as proof, for a remote company you gotta get someone local to vouch for you.

Journeyman Geek

"THIS MAN! I WOULD SPLIT SKULLS IN HIS HONOR!"

Oh, the other kinda vouching

Shog9

Nevermind that the company is still liable if they get it wrong, and there's really nothing stopping you from just signing anyone's name on that form... Gov't, man.

Journeyman Geek

pretty much

(Ah, the joys of a government with pervasive survellience and great record keeping. A lot less paperwork(

Shog9

Oh, they verify all this stuff anyway, so it ain't like you can make up your IDs. It's more like... Theater. A great reminder of how much stuff works only because most of us are reluctant to lie when there's paperwork involved.

e.g., the nominal reason is that they wanna prevent you from stealing someone's ID. But... Nothing involved actually prevents that, at all.

Rob

5:33 AM

At one company where I worked it was like a magnet for that, people would just make up a number and write it on the form; caught a week or two later.

I went to a big school and have been in the biz for decades, so if I don't know someone there (at a company) we still know the same people; professors, employers, co-workers are listed as references in common for a few of us.

Feeds

Podcast – Anil Dash talks Glitch and Glimmer

Ben Popper on February 25, 2020

This week we chat with Anil Dash, CEO of Glitch and board member here at Stack Overflow. He breaks down the tech behind Glitch apps, explains why the company is launching an online magazine called Glimmer, and talks about the fight to keep the web weird, fun, and open to all. Glitch, a platform that…

ert

:\

Journeyman Geek

6:05 AM

> Some fun background for younger listeners:

Geocities – a popular platform for building and hosting a personal website and linking it with others that share similar themes.

... get off my lawn

Catija

:/

Journeyman Geek

My favourite Cake Recipie was fond when I googled a typo someone made .... :D

on geocities

Transcript for