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12:00 AM
I might add that SE did remove all data relating to age and birth dates in 2018 as a result of GDPR
2 hours later…
2:26 AM
@Mithical I think that, at least for me, it's...yet another reminder that the old Stack Exchange is gone has been killed off.
I made my Stack Overflow account when I was 12 (don't tell the lawyers), and SE ended up being a critical influence in my personal growth and development. For most of my teenage years it was the only place that I got to work & socialize with other software developers.
@NobodyNada the age limit has always been a thing. cough very much has been DADT the entire time :D
as a mod, I'm not going to bother unless you post garbage and insist you're an elementary schooler
@Aibobot yeah, I knew I was underage when I joined...every online service has a box saying "I promise I'm 13", and of course I checked the box anyway
I had a blast; I got involved in SOCVR, SOBotics, and Charcoal, where I got to write code, hang out, clean up the sites, goof off, and make mistakes (and learn from them). I learned how to write, how to communicate online, how to work on programming projects with others, and how to be a part of a team.
Yeah, when I signed up for email, I put my birth year as 1970, then changed it when I turned 13
And yes, I do remember the SO community celebrating when Ry- was elected as a moderator, who was under 18 at the time
Are moderators notified in advance of impending expirations of long-term user suspensions?
They're not even notified that they end
Would it be positively received as an FR?
2:33 AM
I think they should be notified because long-term suspensions are levied for serious offenses, and it's possible they may commit recidivism right after expiration
@NobodyNada but most important were the people who put up with me, helped me grow, and acted as role models. I was never nearly as involved as Art, Undo, or Mith -- but I knew they were my age, and so I could relate to them and really learn from how they conducted themselves.
On the other hand, moderators often forget about it by that time.
What would you be proposing? A community flag on their next post, or perhaps just an inbox notification when the suspension is about to end? Also, how would it work for cases like network-wide suspensions?
@SonictheK-DayHedgehog ... if they repeat the behavior, they'll get noticed. The intent of suspensions is that you should be able to come back and start relatively fresh.
2:35 AM
Okay, guess I'll need to make a request for data first (immediate recidivism rate of long-term suspensions).
Meaning no offense to your idea, but I always thought that the end of a suspension was a beginning of the "No grudges" ideology. They served their time and all.
@Spevacus Technically it's one year after the end of a suspension, since your ability to run as a moderator is not restored until then
But normal user-wise, yes.
I suppose that bit's fair to mention.
Telling the mods that the suspension is ending soon just leaves the mods looking for bad behavior. Also... outside SO, the mods generally remember users who made it to a year... and on SO, they suspend enough people that it could be annoying or even missed in all of the other notifications.
I couldn't imagine the number of notifications an SO mod gets on the weekly.
2:38 AM
But if the risk of recidivism is on the higher side, it may be worth letting moderators know somewhere aside from a notification, of impending suspension expirations so they can pay attention and watch for immediate recidivism the moment it expires.
Daily. The diamond on SO gets hit dozens of times per day with suspensions.
Most of which are short-term, I imagine, which such a notification would be of little use.
To be clear, I was only asking about long-term ones.
If I were a mod, I imagine I would have my finger on the pulse of such behavior, and the users who typically participated in it. But, I'm no mod, so I don't really know how much an addition like that would affect the workflow, as it were.
I understand. I still think it'd be noisy and not particularly helpful if all long suspensions triggered that. They issue a lot of year-long suspensions before deleting socks.
@SonictheK-DayHedgehog suspensions are audited to some extent
we will be able to look up history if they did the same thing
2:44 AM
So... Something the SO mods do a lot for spammers is suspend them for a year and then destroy them. Do mods have to send a message along with something like that, or is sending a mod message optional in cases of spammers? I imagine if it's not, they have a template they use for spammers, but...
But I'm not an SO mod. Can always ask what they think but it's generally kinda odd when a non-mod suggests improvements to mod tools.
and tbh, we have better things to do than look for precrime
@Spevacus the point of suspending them is to reduce the value of recreating the account.
Yeah, I was just curious if they had to send a message along with the suspension, or if that particular step was optional.
those credentials are "burned" and can't be reused within 2 weeks
@Spevacus standard mod message.
2:45 AM
not like bots read them, or we care
There's a dashboard that lists all currently suspended people that's at least somewhat useful outside SO.
and on the long term - if spammer mitigation stratergies are effective, we won't need to worry about them in a year, they'll move on to easier pickings
@Spevacus Technically, yes. All suspensions other than network suspensions must come with a mod message. The SO mods generally just send "goodbye" as the message.
(I'd love a few more tools - a domain-level suspension on specific domains would probably be almost as effective as smokey)
2:47 AM
The admin panels really need some love.
But I don't know botter spammerwalla or Joe Spambot is back.
I'd love to see just a couple of the things that Smokey catches with nigh-100% accuracy baked into the system. But, I dunno.
@Spevacus that would be an ideal
Depending on what the suspension was for, a lot of the accounts may have been abandoned completely and never return, so notifications about them are noisy.
@Catija which is generally the ideal :D
2:49 AM
I suppose a Charcoal admin could propose a feature request for a particular block addition, or mention it in the TL/Mod Team and see if it could be done on the down-low. Knowing them, I'm sure it'd have plenty of evidence to ensure its accuracy and what have you.
@Spevacus hmm
so there's a few useful things.
There's lists of disposable email domains - and considering that one's email account is a primary means of ID... uhhhh
having one that can be taken over easily is very bad.
there's also some spammers we notice that would have their day ruined by the unique domain they use being blocked :D
and smokey can't really see that
(then again, I've pondered the utility of replacing being able to see email and IP with less identifying information)
I looked about at all the various blocks spammers hit before they even get to the site. It's... quite extensive, hahaha.
We don't even publicize it all. Did you read Art's blog post in the SO blog back during the summer?
.... stupid mobile glitch
@Catija I think that some of it can be picked up :D
Mhmm! That and sneaking about all the other mentions of SpamRam and what have you.
2:54 AM
@Spevacus spam ram is 1) a black box 2) apparently blocks a LOT before smokey gets to it.
I really enjoyed Art's blog post, as an aside. Funny and informative.
Eh. I showed it to Shog before we ran it and he pointed out that it was good but somewhat... I think he said naive... so I can only assume that Art's explanation isn't complete.
Still a great post but don't assume it knows everything;)
Hm. I'd love to hear what he could add to it (that he'd be allowed to say, anyway)
Heh, yeah I'm sure you guys have got an unholy amount of stuff before any of the public stuff. Holdin' out on us users >:(
@Spevacus we want to know it all. So do the badguys :D
True! The hush-hushiness is justified.
2:59 AM
and there's a wierd dynamic where we don't need to know a lot of stuff but we need to, or need to know it rarely
I don't particularly need to 'know' how spamram or smokey works
I need to trust there's minimum false positives, and I have RSS feeds of spam on smokey so I can go nuke the users later.
Glorious destruction.
chewing noises :D
You chew on them, Tink just eats them... What does ChrisF do? I suppose he could chew on them as well.
there's not enough left to tell :D
3:14 AM
@Spevacus In some cases, there can be an advantage to catching that spam after it's posted instead of before. There's so many built-in checks already that it's really hard to post spam -- so once the post goes through, the spammer thinks they won and goes on to spam somewhere else, while we hit 'em with autoflags.
@NobodyNada It's nice to think that, of the spam that gets autoflagged into oblivion, not a single one of the bots or bot owners that posted it realizes that it got blown away in the blink of an eye.
Or, at least, most of em.
@Spevacus If I had to guess, I'd say most of them probably don't care
these people are working in sweatshops, they're not actually passionate about Weight Loss Keto Slim Max pills
so once it's posted, they've done their job and they don't care if it's gone in seconds
Sad to think about it that way, honestly. Posting into the void as a job... :(
As long as you get paid :D
3:29 AM
Get that dough!
@Catija Once someone claimed that their brother had used the family laptop and the user's account to post something suspension worthy, one of the comments from staff said to use the contact form and that "they had spider on the user's wall" so they should be certain to make their complaint accurately. So I assume that the reality is that SE employs modern technology (not a spider) to examine usage patterns and add the results to SpamRam. --- Perhaps someone recalls the conversation / comment.
I mean... people blame "siblings" for misdeeds all the time. That's not a particularly new grift.
in which case they need to... deal with... their siblings
... Yeah, well... it's in quotes for a reason.
3:44 AM
@Spevacus There's an automatic 14-day suspension levied on account destruction. I believe the SO mods are aware of this, and do this because they've found that to not be enough.
@Catija naive was uncharitable of me; incomplete is better. It's a huge topic.
@Spevacus you wanna get the gist of what I'm alluding to, Bhargav's interview touches on it a bit at the start (unintentionally): blog.sobotics.org/2019/08/interview-with-shog9
The big challenges for spam are cyborgs, people with tools to assist them. You gotta have better tools assisting your own people, or you'll spend more energy defending than they do attacking. This is the real value of SD
@Shog9 Thanks for the link!
4:06 AM
And well
@NobodyNada Honestly, was the entire Charcoal team underage at the time?
SD is a lot more agile than SE can ever be
@hichris123 .... maybe?
I mean, Manish wasn't as far as I know. But most of us probably.
@hichris123 I don't know of anyone who participated in Charcoal while being under 13, but many/most were definitely under 18
Manish was a tean as well: meta.stackexchange.com/a/126927/258777
Interesting, thanks. At the time, I think I classified anyone older than me as an adult.
@Shog9 I think the irony to me is the value of SD, yet six years later (as far as I know) it remains an unfunded project built by a bunch of mostly teens bored of pushing buttons.
4:29 AM
I think that the community-run aspect is part of the reason for its success -- we can experiment and break things without causing outages or angering managers, we don't have to justify our existence during layoffs, and we can opening the project up to the whole community without requiring anyone to make huge time commitments
while, at the same time, we get instant priority support from devs and CMs whenever we have questions or problems with bugs/changes on SE's end
that being said, "community-run" only works if you invest in your community. The environment that brought a bunch of teens together to write a spam-detection engine was not a product of the kind of decisions that were made today
@NobodyNada in theory - those things shouldn't be taken for granted
those folks could take SD's data and go anywhere and build one hell of a spam filtering system
4:45 AM
Yeah, I just don't think I ever expected that it would be a permanent system.
Yes, from the planet Tean; a lot of the people are not Teans.
Okay, I guess I was a little less bullish on the chances of a better SpamRam at the time:
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jan 17 '16 at 20:53, by hichris123
My dream for this would be for SE just to implement it into SpamRam. But the likelihood of that is... quite slim.
5:20 AM
@hichris123 A bunch of bored teens and a few people who I'm pretty sure are Linus-Torvalds-for-regex clones
(Tech skills only. Not including Torvalds' endearing personality)
So glad I'm no longer trying to create patterns for those matches
5:58 AM
interesting idea for new SCP...
6:19 AM
...how is the mod agreement more of a legal agreement than the ToS...?
I mean... I'm pretty sure there are a lot of questions about whether a ToS is even enforceable? unless I'm confused about things... maybe I'm thinking about EULAs.
But there's a huge difference between something that most people aren't even aware of and is mostly just a check box that people tick without looking at the 20-50 page doc... and a concise (though longer than it used to be) document of expectations that any moderator is required to accept before being granted access that, for many companies, only staff would have.
If PII is misused - which has happened - the company is liable for that and needs to be able to show that they are making a best effort to protect that PII. This is, in particular, something that is likely of greater concern after GDPR than before.
To me at least, the solution is then to reduce PII sharing. The experience is probably different on other sites, but I rarely look at PII unless I'm verifying that an account is actually a duplicate.
6:35 AM
Many (most?) mods never use their PII access. The SO mods use it constantly. In the grand scheme of things, reducing PII access is definitely something that's been discussed but would require a lot of work to do in a way that didn't reduce a mod's ability to identify socks ... or trolls or whatever. And while it certainly looks lazy, the reality is, as painful as this change is... it requires very little dev work.
We have a huge backlog of things we need to build to make the site more usable and improve the user experience - and we have a tiny team of people to build that - there's ~5 devs for the entire public platform. This excludes teams like engineering who deal with the entire product but, for the team that actually builds stuff, there's only five.
Not to get on a soapbox, but that could be the lead quote in "why the organizational culture of Stack Exchange needs fixed."
When you're solving technological problems by attempting social change... or vice versa... oh boy.
... It is. We're doubling that team over the next year.
Just like we have plans to increase the CM team, too... but it takes time to get people hired, on-boarded and actually adding to the product in a big way.
Yeah, I mean I can't fault the network for taking time to solve its problems. But I'm sure this has been known for years. Just the problem of being a poorly-funded company relative to other large tech firms I suppose.
I think the company has been struggling to find a solid source of income for years. The funding this summer is making stuff possible that wasn't but we also need to show those funders that we were a smart investment - so we're investing in the core public platform but we also have to continue to improve our paid platforms and products.
And, well... I don't know if any of y'all have been paying much attention to how many jobs are on offer during a global pandemic... but it's not been great for SO Jobs.
Ah, there's new funding? Guess I missed that announcement.
6:44 AM
Prashanth Chandrasekar on July 28, 2020
This is my third in a series of quarterly CEO blog posts. I’m excited to share some very positive updates.
Also interesting re: Jobs, didn't realize tech was worse off... indeed.com/lead/interest-in-tech-jobs-during-covid-19
SE is a SaaS company now, there's no way that doesn't affect the priorities for development (and the mod tools were low on the list even before that). The only reason I think it's still possible that SE will spend resources on making mods without PII work is if the current situation is declared too much of a legal liability
That's likely to come more from our Security department than Legal. Though, our head of Security seems to be a really solid and reasonable person. I've appreciated the interactions I've had with her.
@hichris123 other than that problems are often across sites
and sometimes need information to work out that's not available that way
@MadScientist I guess part of the question is what to reliably replace it, and how much of it with
@hichris123 pretty much everyone but maybe the big cloud companies or gov contracts are probably suffering
@JourneymanGeek True, although I'm just thinking like what if you cut off PII access for mods on say the bottom 50% of SE sites by traffic? How long would it take to notice? (It would honestly take me a while.)
6:55 AM
@hichris123 too soon
and it would kinda create a lower class of sites
@hichris123 hypothetically - I would trade off knowing an IP for reliable ISP/Host recognition, and I've found socks at least once cause the user was john.smith@outlook.com and stackechange@johnsmith.com ...
so the tradeoff is building extremely robust tools that would replace that functionality
@Catija I like security folks in general :D Other than the hacker wannabees :D
Ha, yeah. I think it's probably because ES is low traffic, but I've seen maybe two or three socks in my years moderating. Mostly, I find unregistered and registered users on the same question and see that they have the same email, or john.smith@gmail.com versus john.smith@hotmail.com.
(then again, I hang out with sysadmins so maybe my standards are suspect...)
I think you could get to 80% functionality with a relatively simple tool. The basic idea is to not show emails and IP addresses, but have a tool that tells you if a certain user matches those with any other user.
@MadScientist but you'd still need to make a determination
maybe matching the closeness of an IP in terms of 'distance" may work
(and be much more robust with ipv6 than staring at the address)
If you get e.g. "userX was seen 15 times from IPs used by userY, and none of these IPs are associated with any other user", that should be enough information
7:00 AM
+ geoIP that didn't suck so badly I sometimes just ran whois locally
@JourneymanGeek :D From the little of Security training I've done (in a prior job) the guidance on risk assessment is really regimented which, I think, helps them be thoughtful about risk rather than reactionary and easily spooked.
I think we mods also sometimes got too clever with this
@Catija unlike lawyers :D
@MadScientist We do :D
@JourneymanGeek Honestly trying to remember when I last got a geography from an IP instead of SocketException or whatever
@hichris123 it works... sometimes
its one of those things in my "bring up at some point" mental backlog
7:02 AM
... uh... yeah, that is a frustration... I'm not sure why our tools keep breaking there.
@Catija as I might have said about something unrelated "sometimes the best solution might be to burn it to the ground and starting again"
@Catija and if SE ever goes IPv6, a lot of our methods that worked in ipv4 will break.
Okay, apparently it could find my location correctly but DNS is "AggregateException" which... is that supposed to be ISP? Couldn't tell you.
@hichris123 reverse dns
.... which is wrong
its reading me as being from singtel
Are you? ARE YOU?
in any case - that's something that should use
@M.A.R. I'm using circles, which is an MVNO on the M1 network
7:06 AM
Great! That'll show them! HAHAHA
might be the proxy thing at work
but its wierd that would be a singtel address
that's my home IP
because my PC at home is on
7:17 AM
So, what's new under the sun?
do you really want to know?
@M.A.R. Too bad, I had quite a few rants to share ;)
Waiting for the animal crossing update that will ruin the game
I haven't played that game for a week now. I've been crocheting quite frantically as I always finish a blanket before the year ends, and this one needs work still XD
7:32 AM
paints @M.A.R. Cyberpunk Delay Yellow
@Tinkeringbell How can you crochet and still have rants to make!
Don't crocheters becomes like meditating yoga master Buddhists or something
@M.A.R. hooks silence menacingly
@M.A.R. Because at some point you have to stop crocheting and do your 8 hours of work and sleep.
That's what the TV said.
Which makes 16 hours for making rants ;)
@JourneymanGeek A hook. Crochet is done with a single hook... how many times to I need to rant about that?
7:35 AM
@JourneymanGeek TAKE THAT YOU PIECE OF RAG! (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Sews buttons for Coraline's eyes
also, I would point out the word...
Right hook, left hook, UPPERCUT Rocky music
Crappy Stallone impression
Or does that make the impression good? Hmm
@JourneymanGeek Sorry, that's spelled with an extra 't' ;) Crotchety :)
part of the conspiracy. the T is for iraTe.
Also, knitting uses needles, not hooks.
7:39 AM
but she's crocheting :D
and in tamil we call it a crochet (crosha) needle :D
It's a 'needle' in Dutch too... but there's still only 1, not two... so they can't click XD
what is the sound of one hook clicking?
it's like the sound of one hand clapping
@JourneymanGeek Sometimes the yarn gets squeaky, that's annoying... but otherwise, there's not much sound, sorry.
7:46 AM
@JourneymanGeek You call that fixed? :P
they make no sound.
Much like a grue.
Before the screaming starts.
never heard of the word "sLience" though :P
to be a mod is glorious. UNLIMITED POWER EDITS!
@JourneymanGeek MODABUZE
Anyway, who came up with the 18 idea.
Most people I'd consider "mature", in the naivest form of the word, way before 18.
And some of course don't even mature even if they're forty.
7:52 AM
I'm just saying, I'm just saying. I've seen people so religiously commit to this "age of consent/drinking/whatever" like everything before it is illegal and everything after it is what a normal healthy functioning adult would do.
@M.A.R. Wait, it isn't?
Well I come from a place where it's so weird you could say the age of maturity is considered 18 or 16 or 15 or even 13, depending on which law you're looking at. I think some things are as wrong when you do them when you're 17 as when you're 19, and some restrictions don't make any sense, unless you set the bar pretty low.
7:58 AM
Guys, what do you think about this answer about selfharm/suicide that is under the same question that the official policy links to an answer of. I feel it is outright wrong, and perhaps even harmfull to keep on the site. Yet I generally object to deleting wrong answers, but here there are severe real-life consequence possibly. meta.stackexchange.com/a/243701/361484
Which? The accepted one?
Yes the accepted one
It very much contradicts the linked answer in the official policy
Eh, leave it. It's not a 'wrong' answer, it has the comments you can drop on the post.
That top answer suits the part that says "our moderators are not trained counselors and we do not expect them to engage and deal with the situation."
You copy the comment, you escalate to a CM, you're done :)
> What not to do...

TL;DR: Do not copy/paste. Do not suggest a suicide hotline. Don't lie. Don't treat them like a baby. Don't try a quick-fix.

Suicidal people are encouraged to be open, and talk about their suicidality---it helps. But the instant you do, people begin acting very weird. Anyway, here's my tips:

Do not copy/paste from a script.
From the answer linked in the policy
especially the last line that I quoted
@Luuklag Well, not every person is alike. As far as I'm aware the policy hasn't changed that much, though on reading it twice now there's no more mention of actually handling the post by deleting it.
At least a suicide hotline has people trained and willing to handle this stuff, instead of it being dumped on people that don't have.
8:17 AM
I've dropped Cesar a comment too, it would be nice to know if we can at least still clean up messes ASAP instead of being expected to play suicide hotline.
that ^
@Luuklag from experience - part of the goal here is to protect the mods
When there's credible suicide threats, its ... incredibly stressful for all involved
@rene Not really fair though, the post does say that we can choose not to engage... ;) So we're not really expected to play suicide hotline, but it's still a weird choice if the choice is between 'do nothing except to escalate, then wait hours until a CM has time to handle it', leaving the posts up for all and sundry to see and stuff, and 'play suicide hotline'.
@JourneymanGeek Have you ever had any credible ones?
@Tinkeringbell There was one in old TL
SU... uh
mostly the folks who thought their cat was conspiring to kill them
(not suicide threat, discussion)
I guess I was slacking when proofreading the policy XD I now see it also includes "Please do not discuss these situations in chat rooms, particularly in The Teachers’ Lounge." which to an extent makes sense but is also... TL is kinda supposed to be there to discuss these issues if people need it? Especially if they're supposed to sit twiddling their thumbs until a CM arrives.
@JourneymanGeek Aren't all cats like that?
8:29 AM
cats do not conspire
Are you sure? My cat ....
@JourneymanGeek Never read 'The Cats of Ulthar' have you? :P
@rene cats merely bide their time for your inevitable doom
Um...just saying, didn't you all moderators have a chance to discuss these policies before they were rolled out yesterday?
@SonictheK-DayHedgehog Quote: "I guess I was slacking when proofreading the policy"
8:36 AM
Ah, I missed that. But you could say that the message instead refers to the text right after the quoted text.
@SonictheK-DayHedgehog "I now see it also includes" with an emphasis on also
Sorry, I was unclear. I meant the text in the message beginning with "TL is kinda supposed to..."
I do see how these issues were easy to overlook on first glance, though.
8:49 AM
@SonictheK-DayHedgehog I suspect its a matter of different means of support
TL's the primary means of peer support across the network
so it would be strange, without context, to specifically discourage using the room for support
On the other hand, in situations like this, there might be a time urgency, and its certainly going to be nerve wracking until you know someone is looking at it
@JourneymanGeek Yeah I fully understand, so there basically isn't a right way to do this. Everything has its limitations and downsides
short of having someone on staff who's a trained councilor for things like this
and the usual "giving them the leeway to use those skills"
Yeah, and on the other hand we need to be realistical as well. We are not a suicide hotline, we are random strangers on the internet
@Tinkeringbell I think that "don't discuss these cases in the TL" is there to prevent moderators dogpiling into a threat or chatroom. Usually, the moment someone discusses something contentious, the chatroom in question get bombarded by moderators. Well-meaning moderators also can't help responding to comments, deleting comments, etc etc. Generally it creates noise in a situation where calm is of prime importance.
So our influence is rather limited
9:04 AM
@Snow its kind of a public private space when you have several hundred sites, and maybe dozens of regulars too
@Snow As for creating noise where calm is of importance: having the TL has helped me in the past to remain calm elsewhere. So it goes both ways.
@Snow we're working on that :D
but yes, moderators continue to be strong willed, and opinionated :D
@Tinkeringbell That's very true, and I've used TL in the same way myself. But I'm talking about situations like this, where too many well-meaning moderators can cause more of a problem outside of the TL.
@Snow I've luckily never seen mods pile on onto a threat of self-harm... but that might be because such things would be closed and deleted before they got the chance under the old policy.
Most often it was 'provide link to policy, then chat a little to blow of steam'
the DBA walked over and asked "Where's the script you guys run to check on the DB" ...
which is written and maintained by the DBAs
9:14 AM
Maybe you became the new DBA without knowing it? ;)
I hope not!
Why? Nice raise in salary, no?
I like retaining my sanity
then again, the guy I replaced ended up in a mental ward... (not kidding) :(
and I'm obviously looking at a change in employer
@JourneymanGeek is it the dropdb.sql script?
... lemme check
.... no :(
(its a front end for generating various reports and such from oracle)
9:24 AM
Ah, Oracle. They should totally drop that and use NoSql instead ...
@rene Its state of the art, compared to the hp-ux/itanium servers....
(figured it was worth a pin, don't mind me)
@Mithical ;) If you want to remind yourself of your disappointment for weeks, go ahead :P
apparently I'm a masochist
Your words, not mine ;)
9:43 AM
@Mithical that deserves a star ;)
blegh all these meetings and calls these days. Feels like I cant get any of my actual work done
I've finished three crochet squares in the past two meetings ;)
I knew it! Luuk is the Dutch king
@Tinkeringbell so you got actual work done? :D
Yep :P
@M.A.R. I hope not!
9:48 AM
To be fair, one was a sprint review with three other teams, so it was just listening and paying attention to the slides XD
The other..doesn't require much input from me either. I'm the token diversity person there :P
@Tinkeringbell de excuusvrouw?
or another form of diversity?
Excuustruus ;)
. . . Why does the Dutch king look like a grown up Martin Prince from Simpsons?
@M.A.R. hahahha Now I definetly don't want to be the kIng
@Luuklag Probably a combination of excuustruus, making them feel good about involving a junior developer, and having a developer from an outside team ;)
9:51 AM
hahaha excellent, just sit back and relax then
Not that our company is great at diversity
we only employ straight, white, and university educated people
the only exception is the office manager/ directors PA
"excuustruus" sounds like some AD&D monster
she has a "HBO" degree xD
@Luuklag Haven't seen any that is. Some are just less bad than others. The ones I'm at now love to segregate people based on age gender into 'interest groups'.
@Tinkeringbell well for the purpose of marketing / product development that might be a good thing, as needs can vary between groups
Fun part is that you can't 'unsubscribe' at the company (the client one is opt-in so I only have to deal with declining invites every month).
@Luuklag Yeah. "make your own sandwich" lunches with the secretaries are a great way to improve my development skills.
9:53 AM
@Tinkeringbell program an auto-reply in your email xD
@Tinkeringbell at least you get acquintent with the needs of the demographic ;)
@Luuklag Sadly, it's really 'declining' invites by pressing buttons, so an auto-reply will get me nowhere.
@Luuklag Eh, not really, as I don't develop secretary tools :P
Poor Tink, having to click the button every month
I bet it's just a header outlook sends anyways, so you must be able to script that xD
@Luuklag Hey, it's annoying to be confronted with the fact that I am a female every month! :P
@Tinkeringbell It's not like your body already does that for you xD
@Luuklag It's not supposed to, at least. I have drugs for that.
It still does once or twice a year, which sucks but the doctor says they can't fix it.
9:57 AM
@Tinkeringbell yeah were not all "perfect". My wife never gets reminded either...
@Tinkeringbell Check this: extendoffice.com/documents/outlook/…
Hmm, interesting. That'd solve the invites that aren't posted on the intranet.
downside is you don't actually decline the invite, so it will show up in your calender
This one does however: superuser.com/questions/1451044/…
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