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12:04 AM
3 hours later…
2:34 AM
9 messages moved to Chimney
2 hours later…
4:11 AM
So are we doing hats again this year or not?
4:26 AM
@SurpriseDog Does this answer your question?
1 hour later…
3 hours later…
8:34 AM
@SonictheMaskedWerehog home. Turned out to be just another silly zombie movie, but still watched to the end, just in case it would be better than all the rest. It wasn't. :/
(movie is Cell)
I'm amazed Stephen King approved such a crappy movie. Probably money can buy everything...
9:09 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask You should have rented The Cell, it's more than three letters and a space better.
9:20 AM
@Rob I didn't rent the movie, I recorded it. ;)
@ShadowWizardWearingMask In that case you're stuck with not the cell, just cell.
True. Still some movies in the queue though.
@Rob no, it doesn't answer the question.
It's still not clear if there will be WB or not, this year.
9:38 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Take the reply more literally, their question is a duplicate of that; if someone knows more they've not answered there - indeed, they must have been waiting for SurpriseLog to appear.
Well we can ask someone who might really know then. @Catija will there be hats this December? Thanks. :)
Now we wait...
9:59 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Why wait when we already have a good idea of what the answer will be:
As an aside, I would love to hear suggestions from people that have nothing to do with hats. This was the 8th year we've done the same thing with different triggers and to be honest, I turned them off this year because I've gotten kind of bored with the idea. There's got to be something else fun and interesting we can do at the end of the year that isn't just repeating the same thing over and over. Be creative and don't be tied to the idea of "we must do hats again next year" - maybe if we have something really cool we don't have to... — animuson ♦ Jan 3 '19 at 18:38
@animuson Sweaters. — Catija ♦ Jan 3 '19 at 18:47
10:22 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Last year @YaakovEllis was in charge of WinterBash, if nothing has changed ...
It is the same theme as 2018 (and yes, you can knit once more). Sorry, not enough bandwidth here to make a brand new theme this time around. And the knitting is pretty cool. (Mostly) different hats and missions. And even though it is starting on the 9th, it will run through the end of Jan 1 (as usual) — Yaakov Ellis ♦ Dec 4 '19 at 6:27
As it stands now, we have Pandas.
Dec 4 is ~6 1/2 weeks away, so the question may be being asked far too early; it's not even Halloween yet, and you're putting up your lights. 🎄
"We have a compulsary meeting on the new leave system"
I don't use since I'm a contractor not an employee
but its mandatory
and I think if you're a shift worker, off hours meetings should count towards either extra money or accumilate to half or full days off
also this could/should be an email
10:48 AM
Kinda really tired of the bothsidesism on the Lavender response
@Mithical How is 'things have two sides' suddenly an 'ism' too?
Noun: bothsidesism (uncountable)
  1. A tendency to treat all policy debates as if the opposing sides present equally strong arguments, or are equally valid or equally dangerous.
  2. 2016, Paul Krugman, Both Sides Now?, The New York Times (July 18, 2016):
  3. And the reason is that too much of the news media still can't break with bothsidesism — the almost pathological determination to portray politicians and their programs as being equally good or equally bad, no matter how ludicrous that pretense becomes.
  4. 2017, Justin Fox Being Sure You're Right Makes You Weaker, Bloomberg View (September 21, 2017):
  5. This is not the same as the dreaded bothsidesism, where you assign equal value to opposing positions and split the difference.
  6. Synonym: false balance
Argument to moderation (Latin: argumentum ad temperantiam)—also known as false compromise, argument from middle ground, and the golden mean fallacy—is the fallacy that the truth is a compromise between two opposite positions.An example of a fallacious use of the argument to moderation would be to regard two opposed arguments—one person saying that the sky is blue, while another claims that the sky is in fact yellow—and conclude that the truth is that the sky is green. While green is the colour created by combining blue and yellow, therefore being a compromise between the two positions, the sky...
@Mithical heh. I saw it as a lot of whataboutism
There's both.
and yeah, dealing with the comments there is a bit of a chore, especially if you actually want to read through everything you delete
10:51 AM
Okay. Argument to moderation I think I can get, because 'truth' isn't often a middle ground.
Still. Bothsideism sounds like one of those things people use to squash rational thinking or any kind of policy debate.
The term, or the thing it represents?
Probably both.
The hard thing is that policy debates aren't often rooted in truth, and to make an ism about policy debates... meh.
If one side does make an argument to moderation, that doesn't need an ism, you can point out that they're making that fallacy. So it sounds like the ism was invented when the argument to moderation couldn't be proven?
@Mithical read that as Buddhism and got "huh?!" lol
@ShadowWizardWearingMask strangely enough...
We had a vaguely incoherent answer referencing that
@Rob 1) @animuson doesn't decide, though he might have a say 2) SE plan stuff ahead for years, it doesn't mean it will be done right away, so this might be another such case.
@JourneymanGeek lol where?
@Rob this doesn't hint anything about the next WB...
11:01 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask meta.stackexchange.com/a/355428/135565
It answers what it's hooked to.
I think its offensive but its so incoherent
@JourneymanGeek yeah, 100% offensive, 200% nonsense.
Looks like twisted attempt to use Buddhism for whatever personal agenda that person has.
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Animuson doesn't seem pingable, so that ping is unlikely to get a reply - I've only quoted who said what, not said that nothing has changed nor how it works. --- IF things were planned years ahead then either there wouldn't be the uproar, or it would explain it. :)
11:08 AM
@Rob I mean that SE might be planning something new instead of hats, but it will take several more years, and until then, we'll still have hats.
Disaster planning is their weak spot.
I could use a warm hat right now
Bedroom is cold again...
Sadly, or for the good, various questions regarding practices of the faiths are permitted on some of the religious SE sites; and they get some graphic questions and answers not permitted on other sites.
@Tinkeringbell How about a sweater?
@ShadowWizardWearingMask More specifically, following the disaster plan that they spend months (and hundreds of person-hours) developing doesn't always work out.
@Tinkeringbell :(
@Rob makes sense, we could even have whole SE site dedicated to questions and answers that can't be posted even here, but turns out people are too afraid to take part in such a site.
There were three attempts as far as I can tell, all failed.
11:24 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask kinda part of the problem is - there's certain limits folks ought not to cross, and those lines are kinda blurred/subjective
@ShadowWizardWearingMask I see many such questions.
@Rob already wearing one. The room is just very badly insulated.
Jan 4 at 14:33, by Tinkeringbell
@Rob Oh, I'm definitely either getting one of those or crocheting my own!
@JourneymanGeek of course.
@Rob meh, I bet many of those are trolling, i.e. people asking just for the fun of asking, not because they really want a real answer.
Sadly, ....
11:38 AM
@Rob Should start working on that.... Haven't had a chance though.
what did you delete? Didn't see... :(
Oops, was going to add "or sleeping bag" - fortunately, you can still read the accidentally deleted message (welcome to undelete it).
@Rob I can't, I'm not RO here.
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Can you read this:
That's what I get ^
Only you (as message owner), RO, and those with diamond can see the actual message.
11:43 AM
Sleeping bag might work, but it's too much work :P
It was a reply to @Tink regarding the ongoing conversation; which is linked above.
I've got a space heater now, and I can always pull my blanket off my bed as well.
Sleeping bag doesn't always provide heat...
Helps contain heat most of the times though.
Also, sleeping bag on a bed is weird. :)
11:45 AM
It is easy though...
No problems with bed sheets and blankets that won't go in them exactly straight.
@Tinkeringbell yeah, and it gets even weirder if done by a couple, each and their own bag. :D
Shrug... there's plenty of couples that don't share blankets, or mattresses.
@ShadowWizardWearingMask just ask @Tink to knit you a blanket. The parrot really loves knitting, always telling everyone how superior that is to lame crocheting....
@Tinkeringbell (sorry had to)
11:47 AM
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе Of course you had to.
Luckily I'm confident enough in my own crocheting abilities not to be offended :D
@Tinkeringbell I mean, 'twas a while since I did the lame knitting joke.
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе Shrug. I'm well aware that being a mod doesn't mean people won't try to offend me.
sdc blame
@QueenieGoldstein It's Rory Alsop's fault.
11:49 AM
just annoy, not offending. :P
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе I need the opposite, it's still over 25 (celcius) here, even during nights. :/
@ShadowWizardWearingMask I think your sleeping bag and mattress will be fine for hot weather:
@Rob thanks, I'll take it. :D
It was the least disgusting of the bad mattress and sleeping bag image search results. :)
@ShadowWizardWearingMask To be fair, this is the only time I would actually be fine if they went for a very lame "social message" PR thing and converted the hats to decorated face masks this year.
sorry, lame is not the correct word
I mean something like "expected, predictable"
Meaning that it would be a predictable thing to do for "social purposes" and someone may find that lame, but considering how the situation is right now, they would have my approval
just yet another reminder that masks are there for a reason.
11:59 AM
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе valid answer in the "hats ideas for 2020" post by @Sonic, you might even get some points. :D
He managed to get +11/-27 :)
@mag hey you :) How've you been?
Too busy to write more than 1-word replies? ;) How's moderating that other place going?
12:37 PM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask you really want to poke that old post... now?
12:53 PM
@ShadowWizardWearingMask I see you're not reading my updates for the [status-review] tag that closely, huh...?
Is that an invite to start stalking you?
Technically I posted the answer :P
@Rob impressive
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе hmm... yes? Why not?
It's about the upcoming winter bash which will be in couple of months.
@ShadowWizardWearingMask it's still humbug season
hum what?
@JNat review? Sorry, I'm quite lost... I did search for "Will there be winter bash this year?" and didn't find. :/
12:58 PM
A humbug is a person or object that behaves in a deceptive or dishonest way, often as a hoax or in jest. The term was first described in 1751 as student slang, and recorded in 1840 as a "nautical phrase". It is now also often used as an exclamation to describe something as hypocritical nonsense or gibberish. When referring to a person, a humbug means a fraud or impostor, implying an element of unjustified publicity and spectacle. In modern usage, the word is most associated with the character Ebenezer Scrooge, created by Charles Dickens in his 1843 novella A Christmas Carol. His famous reference...
A: What posts should be escalated to staff using [status-review], and how do I escalate them?

CatijaSeptember and October 2020 Targets: Respond to 50% of Meta posts from across the network, within 2 weeks of status-review getting added to it. Respond to 75% of Meta posts from across the network, where status-review was added to it in a previous period. Guidance: New these two months: Edito...

See ^^^^ !!
Wow that one is hard to notice XD
you're welcome :P
@JNat let me get my humourously large microscope
1:02 PM
NM, hooking broken.
@JourneymanGeek you can just copy-paste it for the text :)
@Rob There shall be no hooking in SE chat ;)
or go to the edit view
I thought it was just "dating".
@JNat no idea how I missed it!
1:04 PM
If you're not curious about extremely tiny text... clearly you're not that interested.
@Rob Hmm. Subsets ;)
@Tinkeringbell occasionally time consuming
not unlike herding moody cats
1:08 PM
Sounds fun... :|
fantasy novels from my reading list, work and other hobbies have filled the time I used to spend at SE
@Mithical Yeah... I had to unfollow that post because it was really getting to me.
I read some of that. predictable but still sad
also I've been working on a single SQL query for almost a week now and it's monstrous and growing more betentacled by the day
@mag That's not too bad :D You had a pretty long reading list from what I remember :)
1:13 PM
@Tinkeringbell It's gotten longer since
Oof! Do you think you'll ever finish it? ;)
by spring next year
I can go through 100 books in a year easy when i'm motivated, and right now i'm motivated
@mag switch to No SQL and that headache is over ....
That's not too bad! I should really get back into reading more too, I could finish the things I still have before the end of the year.
The combo of the two conversations above left me thinking that it would take until spring 2021 to complete a SQL query.
1:15 PM
@Catija It has reached 1100 lines by now
And it's 9 subqueries deep at the deepest point
@JNat Cross-site spammer for gentle obliteration stackexchange.com/users/19431349/elizabeth-seanpaul
I think I may have made a mistake in not just writing a small .net program for the task, but it's too late to stop now
@mag ooh, that's a sunk cost fallacy. You can always stop and do better :D
I mean that literally as in the deadline is early next week and I dont have time to rewrite it
as ugly as it gets this thing will be finished and it will run. It may creak and take 5s to spit out a single result set but it will run
1:20 PM
@Catija *sets font size huge, takes off glasses, looks with more nearsighted eye*
Ah, of course, clear as day.
Copy and paste?
.... there are better ways to make your text annoying to read.
JNat chose that one.
𝔣𝔬𝔯 𝔢𝔵𝔞𝔪𝔭𝔩𝔢, @𝔍𝔬𝔲𝔯𝔫𝔢𝔶𝔪𝔞𝔫 𝔣𝔞𝔳𝔬𝔯𝔦𝔱𝔢
(incoming "you monster" reply)
Just increase the whitespace between lines ;)
1:24 PM
Someone's going to complain about kerning next...
Just don't change things!
OK. Never change things about the site again... Check!
... though... that seems a bit... stagnant.
Put it in read-only mode as well. No more changing scores, no more new content or edits to existing stuff... Sounds rather lovely to me :D
Well, I guess it'd make my job really easy, then.
And no need for mods...
There's a solution to every problem. Just keep chat, I need a place to present these brilliant ideas to others from time to time :D
1:31 PM
reading a read only manual
1:46 PM
Ah yes. Code wisdom.
The holy grail of all wisdoms.
2:00 PM
And more fingers / gingers @Rub:
Seems pretty close, a good explanation: ginger color fingers.
@Catija we once ran a sql query that ran a week before someone killed it.....
@JourneymanGeek When I used to work retail, someone started an 'empty' query on the product database and it would be gathering every single thing in it... it also meant no one was able to pay as the system was too busy with the query.
2:18 PM
I once opened the Transaction LOG of the production db in Notepad. Yes, on the production server.
Why not?
I can do that... XD
well, Notepad does a memory allocation first for the size of the file and then reads all bytes from that file into the allocated memory. Trust me, you'll notice and your end users ;)
2:51 PM
@rene easy fix: kill Kenny Notepad. ;)
why does the code I have to work with always look like a mixture of Google DeepDreams, Junji Ito mangas and Lovecraft mythology?
3:30 PM
@JourneymanGeek:You were right about the increasing ratio of down-votes to upvotes on that post: I got data from SEDE & simulated daily scores under the assumption that the odds are constant over time, conditioning on daily vote counts & on total up-votes.
'R' stands out - & those are the observed daily scores.
@Scortchi-ReinstateMonica what happened to Z?
Anyway, does anyone see such thing in this answer? (trying to reproduce this bug report, the lines are the same thickness for me.)
3:46 PM
@Scortchi-ReinstateMonica I'm wondering if it got shared somewhere but no way to think
@ShadowWizardWearingMask I'm too lazy to log in to comment + its noise but...
@JourneymanGeek no way to Tink?!
I'd point out Theresa's responding to many of the answers
@Aibobot only in the first day
Since then.... silence.
and there's fairly concrete promises made - just an unwillingness/inability to address the elephant in the room
@ShadowWizardWearingMask I've been following the post and keeping up is nearly impossible ;)
3:56 PM
I'm pretty sure it began with positive score.
It did
but David's post took a lot longer to get a negative score
Like a parent buying a shiny present to their kid.... the kid is all excited, opens the present, starts playing with the new toy, just to find out the toy actually does.... nothing.
@Aibobot Eh, isn't that a bit comparing apples to oranges?
@Tinkeringbell exactly :D
@ShadowWizardWearingMask the kid is a sulky teenager now though
Hard to please, no doubt. But still...
3:59 PM
and some of them are slightly footstompy. A few kinda feel like the adults are irresponsible.
"Damn it, you're an adult. Stop watching TV all night, and walk the dog for once, I have a job"
A: "The dog can walk himself".
If more people feel like me, that's it's rather useless to start another cycle of mudslinging after a year, that could be the easy reason. What's that law about picking the most obvious explanation?
Depends on who the audience is and the follow up I guess
I wonder if Shog was aware his post will cause so many downvotes when he posted it?
but IDK, I just deal with the debris after the fact :D
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Probably didn't care
sometimes its worth taking the hit if the right people see it
4:02 PM
@Aibobot If it's posted on Meta and featured, I usually presume 'anyone using the network and bothering to click featured MSE posts' as being the audience ;)
@Tinkeringbell yes and no - you both write to the "masses" and to try to get a specific goal
I might be extra salty though cause I've read through some of the worst of it, and the pushback :D
@ShadowWizardWearingMask I don't think you can blame Shog. I don't see any days with a super-spike in downvotes after that specific answer.
@Aibobot sometimes debris can't be dealt with...
@Aibobot agreed.
@Aibobot Perhaps it's time to let SE handle SE's own messes and take care of yourself for a while :)
@Tinkeringbell heh
I'm not particularly burnt out cause of those messes :D
I just need like normal sleep for a bit
Tink's mother instinct activated :D
@ShadowWizardWearingMask oh, she's probably seen the mod dashboard :D
Nah. That's not a mother instinct, mother instinct is going the other way, burning yourself out taking care of others.
4:07 PM
others that don't particularly appreciate it anyways :P
I appreciate it. :)
@Aibobot I've been picking out the spam flags and scrolled through looking for unrelated stuff :)
@Tinkeringbell besides, if I can't deal, I let y'all know and take a break
@Tinkeringbell maybe, just felt that way. Also, I don't think the negative score is bad, it's a signal.
I think last year got us used to realising its ok to take a brether.
4:08 PM
I am not touching that post with a 10 foot pole. If SE really thinks they need to start all over after a year, they can have it.
which is fine :D
@Aibobot Sure, I'm just reminding you it's an option ;)
what isn't fine is SQL developer crashing ._.
"they can take care of themself for a while" = fatherly instinct?
4:09 PM
.... OH
@ShadowWizardWearingMask Oh, it probably is. One that will most likely be ignored or misinterpreted ;)
@JohnDvorak Without the 'for a while' I think.
@Aibobot rubber duck?
chat.SE's dead again.
4:10 PM
Glad to hear it's working again :)
@Tinkeringbell nah, they're smarter than this, they're well aware by now what it means. But yeah, can safely ignore it. ;)
both works for me
Both working for me too.
@Tinkeringbell One of the queries is crashing the app, and I'm running 16 at once
4:11 PM
Maybe one server down again.
@Aibobot Okay well stop that you already broke chat for 1 person.
But yeah, that doesn't help XD
Or just chat search?
Search is broken for long time, no?
search seems to working for me too
It usually works. I got an "Oops! Something bad happened"
4:12 PM
hmm.... I can search for one word only in chat. More than one word, and it's always empty.
...and now it's back.
I haven't managed to encounter that recently... but then again I'm not too active here
@ShadowWizardWearingMask mine works just fine, 126 messages found.
4:18 PM
should we banish that^ bot?
Nah, let him. Some days he actually talks.
ah, interesting
@Tinkeringbell maybe need a flush?
flushing @user40
If only flushing memories would fix this ;)
@Tinkeringbell mod power! :D
4:20 PM
@user400654 🦆
@Tinkeringbell huh! After CTRL+F5 it works. But after another CTRL+F5, 0 results again.
Sooooo weird.
Well there's weirder things to worry about.
Like world leaders decisions during Corona?
"Cloze all dem plazes!!1!!"
"Drink soap!"
i'd be more worried about the decisions of the people
4:24 PM
See? He talked!
Not a bot :D
And yes, worrying about the people is also on the list. Though I'm not sure if it falls under 'weirder things'.
@Tinkeringbell see, that's what they want you to think
@Aibobot I'm easily misled :P
4:25 PM
Well, deciding to wear a Corona mask on the hand instead of the face is weird.
what if you're Thing?
@Aibobot Are you seriously objectifying a woman in this day and age?
@ShadowWizardWearingMask It is. As is deciding to not wear one at all.
or being excited that your state is lifting the mask mandate,
In case someone hasn't seen it yet:
while still seeing 1k+ a day
4:28 PM
@user400654 Ugh.
Over here they can only 'strongly recommend' masks, as we're lacking the legal tools to actually enforce a mandate.
@Tinkeringbell I have no idea what Thing's gender is :D
(Its the hand from Addam's Family)
@Aibobot Oh, that Thing...
Definitely male.
I think it had hair.
nationally the US doesn't have the authority federally to enforce one, but states/cities absolutely do
no no
That's Cousin IT
cool, apple changed my default browser back to safari
thanks apple
4:31 PM
@user400654 I would say that's why I love Windows but.... XD
something, something, edge
or office "apps" aka ads being installed with updates
and pinned to start menu
@Aibobot Wikipedia says Thing was played by a male, so I'm going with Thing being male.
i mean..
@Tinkeringbell in which case I wasn't objectifying a woman
@Aibobot Noted. Next time I won't fall for your social engineering.
@user400654 Hey, nothing is perfect ;) At least on Windows I know how to turn it on, off, and install Chrome and Netflix.
4:33 PM
@Tinkeringbell and my slightly obscure anglophone references :D
Oh, and there's this neat commandline trick to set a timer for shutdown so I can wear my headphones/music to bed :D
@Aibobot I knew about Thing. Which is weird considering how my parents were basically against anything dark/supernatural, but apparently fairy tales and the Addam's Family were fine :/
ooh, a transcript
Ugh, I feel the searching is randomly broken again...
Halp, I can't search!
5:11 PM
@Aibobot Male. At least implied in the episode where he falls in love for a female hand.
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе but that dosen't necessarily mean maleness :D
I don't judge
strongly indicates though
p < 5%
probably addressed as male in the original tv series.
But... I won't search for an actual reference now
@Νеvеrꭑoꭇе Eh, probably not worth digging so far for what was essentially a throwaway joke
5:37 PM
I wonder if search being down is related to yesterday's issues or something new entirely
I also wonder that...
I mean, I tried to search if this issue has been reported, but failed...
<bad-advice-bears>Just file duplicate bug reports and blame lack of search</bad-advice-bears>
Thing was always played by males, regardless of its intended gender; and female hands are different from males:
> Ted Cassidy ('Lurch') also played Thing. For scenes where Lurch & Thing appeared together, Thing was portrayed by assistant director Jack Voglin. The role was uncredited, with its actor listed as "itself". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(The_Addams_Family)
Y'all are taking it too seriously :D
5:42 PM
Puts fire out.
Logging verbose
@Aibobot Hey, Thing is serious business!
Go on :)
1 hour later…
6:52 PM
amusingly I'm messing with a hardware way of doing that, as most of the root access folks might be aware :D
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