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3:00 PM
@user1271772 this
 
@ShadowWizard I see. I looked at it and felt a bit sorry for the asker, who has only 1 point, and wrote a not-so-short question which looks like they're genuinely trying to help, so I upvoted to give them 5 points. But then I looked at their profile and see they have absolutely no questions/answers anywhere else, so it looks a bit suspicious. Is this what they do to start a new account and get enough reputation to participate? Had to un-upvote this one
@ShadowWizard I looked closer. This user joined today and has 0 profile views. How could they know enough to go to Meta and ask this question? Turned out they are ADVERTISING their own version of Stack Overflow !!!! Did you click on their link ?? It's an exact copy of SO and they are just pretending to ask a question in order to advertise it !!
 
naw
A lot of people passively use SO
they probably felt it was helpful
 
@JourneymanGeek : Okay, well they made the account today just for this. A lot of people passively use SO, but it's unlikely they know about Meta. Anyway maybe I'm being too cynical.
 
I think you are
 
@ShadowWizard : Is it really a duplicate? The answer to the dupe talked about it being a "scrapper" which copies content from SO, and the answer says "In principle, there's actually nothing wrong with doing this. Our content is licensed under Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 and is freely redistribituble". But this one is not just copying the content, it's copied the entire source
 
3:10 PM
Assume good intent ;)
@user1271772 that's covered
 
@JourneymanGeek Where?
 
> The site is a proxy. Whatever the purpose of the site actually is, malicious or not, proxies represent a serious security threat to our site. Sometimes they even start showing up in Google results and users click on them not realizing that they aren't actually on Stack Overflow. Users get confused, or try to log in and accidentally send sensitive information to a third-party service.
 
I understand all of that
I just thought the answer to the question that was linked, was not actually the best answer to give for this particular question, because it says "In principle, there's actually nothing wrong with doing this. Our content is licensed under Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 and is freely redistribituble"
 
well content is fine (within the licence)
but copying the whole site isn't
 
Which is wrong isn't it? The "contact us" option is what should be used here
Exactly
Is it possible to un-close the question so I can answer it a bit better?
 
3:15 PM
@user1271772 in theory though, since it was a CM who closed it...
even if she's on vacation ...
I think people would know
so no need
 
I thought she was on leave last week
 
She's still on leave. She's not working. She's socialising ;p
 
I see
 
3:36 PM
@user1271772 yes it is duplicate.
And the faq it's closed as dupe of covers all options, including "bad" scrapers.
 
... and as I expected, browsing the vsdl2 available promotions in my country only confirmed this place is muddy swamp of bloat.
 
I made a small human... I'm allowed more than a week.
user image
5
 
@user1271772 you somehow missed this:
1 1
Member for 17 days. Probably he/she stalked SO/MSE for long time before actually joining, like many do.
And there is always a chance someone can write a good question as their very first question, as unlikely as it might seem. :)
@Catija sleep mode is good. ;)
 
He's keeping me warm :P
 
Oh, he sleeps on you? Looks like he's on some chair or couch in the picture.
Well, my baby daughter spent like 90% of her first three months on her mother.
5% on me, and 5% in her bed.
Luckily she made no problems going to day care and loved being there. :)
 
3:46 PM
@ShadowWizard I;m in a chair, he's in my arms.
His head is on my elbow.
 
@Catija ohhh... I see now. Your skin color is too much like the chair color. ;)
 
har har.
 
I can't put my words on mod questionnaire...... >_<
it feels very hard for me to answer those questions...
 
@Derpy ah
@Catija awww
he's adorable
 
Thanks. :)
 
3:56 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): Robots.txt not updating by Ash on wordpress.SE
 
@AndrasDeak consider that in the animated show she basically "dies", getting turned into a statue after "sacrificing" herself to save the Titans and the city. The episode ends with the Titans promising to bring her back. The statue is never mentioned again.
Then suddenly, in the last episode.
> Later, after returning home from defeating the Brotherhood of Evil, Beast Boy is shocked to find a girl that looks like Terra at a local school, apparently unharmed. While she claims to have no recollection of her previous life, it is revealed that the statue Terra turned into had vanished. After failing to convince the girl to return, she ultimately tells Beast Boy to let go of the past
she is somehow back, without any memory and the statue is just gone. The show is cancelled soon after.
 
aren't major retcons just everyday life in the comic world?
 
oh, yep, but the fact that the retcon changed a character that was somehow morally gray in the original in a Nami-like victim of her life... that I think may have triggered someone to push the "you won't do this with our character" button
 
The Doctor realized that her statue was actually a weeping angel and stopped her from having become one. There.
 
4:01 PM
Ever played Epic Mikey?
there is a big difference from the finale game that was sold and the original one warren planed before Disney meddled that plan.
 
I suspect all of our cultural experiences are disjoint
 
let's just say that the game was supposed to have a sort of morality alignment system. The finale product only has some vague remains of that
The original plan?
well....
THIS was what you would become on the "dark" path.
 
Who? Me? ;)
It looks very... liquid.
 
then Disney saw it.
@ShadowWizard because it was made from ink.
 
4:06 PM
and if that suddenly reminds you of the Ink Demon from Bendy.... yep, I supposed it was made on purpose
@ShadowWizard in the game, you have two tools. A brush, and a thinner. The first can create stuff, the second destroys stuff. You have multiple choices on how to go forward at some points in the game
example: delete a building or go around it
 
@Derpy nice, reminds me of Okami.
 
deletion is supposedly "evil" and creation is "good"
 
There you draw a line on enemies in battle to hit them.
 
based on how you played, Mickey would have changed appearance.
 
@Derpy clearly the creators don't frequent SO
 
4:09 PM
And you can also create stuff by drawing. Wonder who copied from whom? :)
 
that image was the planned "evil Mickey"
 
Magic Pengel: The Quest for Color... never mind...
 
in the final game, there is no such thing. There is an "evil" ending, but it pretty evident it was rewritten and toned down .
 
Mickey stubs his toe on a chair
 
another scrapped idea was this...
I think you may notice a pattern by now
 
4:12 PM
eww
It's just creepy, not scary.
 
Disney doesn't want 6-year-olds to pee their beds?
 
Everything out of character was probably vetoed
@AndrasDeak bingo.
 
perhaps someone tweeted about the designs
 
eheh.
anyway, have to go for now.
Later
 
bye
 
4:20 PM
@Derpy why do I get the feeling that Disney quashed this very very very fast
 
@ShadowWizard : It seems clear that I was wrong in this case.
I also didn't know that one can be a user on SO for 17 days and on Meta for just 1 day. It says "joined earlier today" for Meta, but I didn't know that you can click on SO and find out when they joined that.
@Catija Very cute. Did you make the small human in your profile pic too?
 
Yes. He's 2.
 
:)
If they are anything like mine, it won't be long before the younger one gets jealous that brother is on profile pic! Eventually you'll have a replica of @ShadowWizard's current pic
 
4:52 PM
@ShadowWizard @Glorfindel a bit of a trainwreck on MSO: needs delete votes here
 
doesn't it need close votes first?
 
Oh, what a mess
 
did you mean to delv-pls the dupe?
what you linked is the dupe target right now, and as such won't be delvable :|
oh well, deleted the dupe
 
thanks
 
(my first 20k delv \o/)
@rene delete your comment on the other post
thanks
 
5:07 PM
yw
 
Let's first agree that the question you linked to is indeed off-topic for SO as it is more of an installation issue then a programming issue. So now I wonder what the potential answer would be that you are going to add as it must at least convince us all that the question is incorrectly closed. — rene 2 mins ago
"us all", all three people seeing that on meta ;D
 
just between you, me and someone random ...
 
between all of you and myself...
 
 
2 hours later…
7:03 PM
@user1271772 yes the join date is the date when creating the account on each site, not the date joining the first in the network.
Me, Myself & Irene is a 2000 American dark comedy film directed by the Farrelly brothers, and starring Jim Carrey and Renée Zellweger. Chris Cooper, Robert Forster, Richard Jenkins, Daniel Greene, Anthony Anderson, Jerod Mixon and Mongo Brownlee co-star. The film is about a Rhode Island state trooper named Charlie who, after years of continuously suppressing his rage and feelings, suffers a psychotic breakdown which results in a second personality, Hank. This was also Carrey's first role in a 20th Century Fox film. == Plot == Charlie Baileygates (Jim Carrey) is a veteran Rhode Island State Police...
 
was searching for my blanket and later found that it got a new owner
 
o/
 
Awww. I'm afraid the blanket is lost forever now though.
 
7:23 PM
no. I took it and give her my pillow
I can't use pillows coz of d f***ing back pain
 
@OptimusPrime :(
Any chance of it getting better with time, or is this chronic?
 
@OptimusPrime Tried a body pillow?
@rene It's a rejected migration; the Roomba will get around to deleting it.
The original can be del-voted, however: stackoverflow.com/questions/53322026/…
 
7:57 PM
@Tinkeringbell permanent. A fracture on one of the backbone disc
 
more :( then.
 
@OptimusPrime that tends to happen when small fuzzy owners are around
 
@Tinkeringbell O_o
 
@OptimusPrime Well, it's not good if it's not going to get better, is it?
 
yeah
and the only thing I am worried about is my marriage life
:(
 
9:12 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog how did that not get migrated? Multiple copies?
 
@AndrasDeak The migration was rejected.
 
Oh, rejected
Yeah, thanks
 
This unlocked the original SO question.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted username (92): Liquid - Liquid separation Problem by shiff desta on chemistry.SE
 
9:31 PM
@Shog9 Something's wrong with the history of this question. On the question page, it says that five users voted to migrate, whereas only SE employees can migrate from this site. On the history page, it says that the same five users voted to close in 2014, and then you recently migrated the question, but I don't see a reopening and re-closing that I normally see if a mod decides to migrate a closed question. What did you do on that question?
 
migrated
 
@Shog9 You can migrate questions without closing them?
 
yes
 
@Shog9 Is that the same thing that you did here, which was migrated but doesn't show with "[migrated]" in the title, and the history doesn't show a closed event?
 
yes
the other tell-tale sign is that the post is deleted at the same time it is migrated
 
9:34 PM
@Shog9 Does it involve having to tweak something or exploit some flaw (e.g. triggering a server error to add multiple dupe targets), or does the UI allow users with the staff bit to migrate questions without closing?
 
no, it's a purpose-built tool
primarily intended for migrating questions en masse
can also do this without creating a migration history on the destination site, though that's usually only appropriate when the origin is about to be killed
 
@Shog9 Speaking of that, can mods clear migration histories, or can only staff members do that by tweaking the database?
 
Mods can clear migration histories
doing so creates another history entry, which notes where the question was migrated from, when that was cleared, and who cleared it
 
@Shog9 Also, is it intentional that questions migrated from other sites and subsequently closed show as "[migrated]" in search results, but as "[on hold]", "[closed]", or "[duplicate]" on the question itself?
 
probably, yeah. I vaguely recall discussing this years ago; team was against putting a ton of meta-text into the titles, so it was "pick one"
 
9:40 PM
@Shog9 Open questions migrated from other sites don't show with it.
I'd say it's a bug, because the thing appended to the title is different in search results vs. on the question itself.
 
so, an inbound migration is normally not terribly relevant
a question is a question regardless of how it got there
BUT...
if it's migrated away, then it's essentially dead - you can't answer it unless you go to another site
so what's this got to do with inbound migrations that are closed?
well, if a question is closed after being migrated in, the migration is rejected - the question is locked, answers deleted, and then unlocked on the originating site
once again, it's effectively dead: you're expected to go back to the origin to interact
and so the status becomes important again
 
@Shog9 But migrated questions closed as duplicates aren't rejected, but they don't show as "[duplicate]" in search results, unlike on the question itself; they show as "[migrated]".
 
example?
 
meta.stackexchange.com/questions/12513/… - "Should I not answer my own questions? [duplicate]"
meta.stackexchange.com/… - "Should I not answer my own questions? [migrated]"
@Shog9 Provided.
 
ok
without looking, my guess would be there's a flaw in the migration-detection here
inbound and outbound migrations look very similar at the Post level
both have a date set in the MigrationDate column
 
9:47 PM
@Shog9 So it isn't supposed to happen for duplicates? But it is supposed to happen for questions closed for other reasons (and thus rejected migrations)?
 
Both can be closed, but outbound migrations will almost always be closed while inbound migrations will often be open
Both can be locked, but outbound migrations will almost always be locked while inbound migrations will be unlocked unless rejected or explicitly locked by a moderator
Therefore, the fastest way to differentiate between an inbound and outbound migration is to check if the post is closed, locked and migrated
 
@Shog9 Makes sense. Also explains why "migrated:1" now shows both inbound and outbound migrations, whereas it used to only show outbound migrations?
 
If so, it's likely outbound; otherwise, probably inbound
This is how, for example, the logic that determines the banner beneath the post works
(it won't pull post history until it needs to)
However, if the logic that renders search results is only looking at close + migrated...
...that would explain what we're seeing here
and, sure enough:
public SearchResultPostType GetResultPostType()
{
    var post = Result.Result;
    switch (post.PostTypeId)
    {
        case PostTypeId.Question:
            if (post.IsClosed)
            {
                if (post.IsMigrated)
                {
                    return SearchResultPostType.QuestionMigrated;
                }
                if (post.IsDuplicate)
                {
                    return SearchResultPostType.QuestionDuplicate;
                }
                if (post.ClosedDate?.AddDays(Site.Settings.Questions.DaysToShowOnHoldInsteadOfClosed) > DateTime.UtcNow)
 
10:11 PM
Can/would any powers that be tell me if the author of this MSO answer got suspended for that answer, or for something unrelated?
 
Something unrelated
 
thanks
 
I think
 
I think ;)
 
...actually, not 100% sure about that
so, ignore me
 
10:13 PM
Because already the rude deletion seems on the fence to me, and suspension for that would be outright excessive
Tim's recent situation notwithstanding
 
I think the rude deletion is totally legit
 
well, nobody can say it was posted in good faith, so sure
 
I think suspension for that alone would be blatantly excessive
 
well, wasn't suspended by an employee, but given that's on MSO I can't be sure the SO mods didn't see it / take it into account
 
@MarkAmery yup, hence my asking here
 
10:14 PM
But if there were a long preceding pattern of misbehaviour, I would not object if that post were the straw the broke the camel's back
(Though I know of no such pattern of misbehaviour)
 
especially with some camels
2
it's hard to keep track of these welcoming pseudonyms to be certain about anything
 
also takes like 3 minutes to load that user's full history, so... screw that. I probably shouldn't be discussing suspension details here anyway :)
 
User's full history as in... history of mod interactions?
Or "annotations", as I've heard 'em called?
 
More like...
Permanent Record: The Very Best Of is a greatest hits album by the band Violent Femmes. It was released on July 12, 2005. == Track listing == All tracks written by Gordon Gano except where noted.. == Personnel == Gordon Gano – Lead vocals, guitar, violin (3, 4, 7, 13) Brian Ritchie – Bass, vocals, xylophone (3, 4), jaw harp (6), guitar (8, 11), didgeridoo (11), reed organ (12), guitar solo (12, 14) Victor DeLorenzo – Drums, vocals (tracks 1–11, 17) Guy Hoffman – Drums, vocals (tracks 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)Additional musicians Michael Blair – Percussion (track 11, 13) Steve Mackay – Saxophone (track...
> I hope you know that this will go down
On your permanent record
Oh, yeah, well, don't get so distressed
Did I happen to mention that I'm impressed
 
Can a user see their own record? Do I have any naughty marks on mine? In theory can I force you to show me it with a GDPR request? :P
 
10:19 PM
nope; probably; probably but you won't like it
 
you can see some of it
 
AFAIK, there's a whole semi-automated GDPR system now
 
@AndrasDeak :O
 
OTOH, you don't get moderator annotations
 
10:21 PM
Boo, hiss!
How can this be justified?
Surely as a European I have a fundamental right to know which moderators said mean things about me so I can send them letter bombs!
 
Are mean things said about you your private data?
 
"private data" isn't the term the GDPR uses, @AndrasDeak - it's "personal data" that I'm allowed to request
and that's anything that "relates to" and "identified or identifiable living person"
 
potato, tomato
 
I claim to be identified, living, and a person, and that mod annotations patently "relate to" me
However, I think there's some get-out where the data processor is allowed to refuse to hand over information that would violate OTHER people's privacy
Which I think probably means that it's legal for SE not to provide the identities of mods who took punitive actions against someone
 
puny mods taking punitive action
 
10:26 PM
@Shog9 Do I have any annotations? I want an exciting life!
 
TONS
 
Yay!
 
naw, just someone leaving notes about some old deletion request
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad asn for hostname in answer (179): Access Temperature sensor data of 3D printer via Serial connection by rosesophos on 3dprinting.SE
 
I made a deletion request? O_o
 
10:28 PM
On the other hand, I can't see any way SE could justify not handing over a censored version of a user's annotations in response to a subject data access request, with the mod names removed
The first few results I can turn up on Google suggest to me that records that are primarily about the data subject should have data about third parties redacted and then be handed over; I can't find anything suggesting that it's acceptable to withhold records entirely because they incidentally mention a third party
 
@MarkAmery I think the argument would be that the annotations betray the policy way and methods SE uses to handle problem users, which can be argued is a trade secret
 
I don't think that could be classified as a trade secret...
 
And yeah, you don't get annotations. I know I have one on SO, and I didn't get it in my data access request
 
Not in US jurisdiction anyhow.
 
Consider an annotation: "Mark and forest have been fighting every day, each escalating the situation at the slightest provocation, culminating today when forest called Mark a "geezer" and Mark called forest a "doodiehead. Please keep an eye on these two. -- Shog9"
Now... Who of the three people involved can be given that annotation without revealing personal info about someone else?
 
10:32 PM
you essentially would have to have someone manually redact it
 
Everyone, just by censoring the names.
 
which just does not scale
 
@Magisch This is interesting. Like forest, I think this is a bit of a stretch
 
remember that annotations are freeform text and usernames aren't referred to by their profile link, but by the name as the mod types it out
 
That's NOT why we don't include annotations, BTW... But it's a pretty good reason to not want them available.
 
10:33 PM
@Shog9 Why?
 
Is there a reason known to you that you're allowed to reveal why SE doesn't?
 
AFAIK, the legal justification is simply: we don't have to release private information that's used to maintain the security of our system.
 
Or would that be a question for SE's cci?
 
@Magisch Looking it up for US law, a trade secret must provide specific and clear economic benefit that would not be possible without its secrecy.
 
But, I'm not a lawyer and that's very much not a quote of anything
So, take with a grain of salt
 
10:34 PM
@forest I'm the CCI for my company, so I'm actually quite used to stretching GDPR to find a justification for some stuff :p
 
@Magisch It doesn't necessarily have to scale - that depends upon how many requests the company gets. Also, I'm not sure there's anything in the law that gives a damn whether it scales or not. If the weight of subject data access requests destroys your company... I think that's just too bad, as far as the law is concerned.
 
Well to be fair, I was just looking at US law, not EU law (so no GDPR).
Just a common on whether or not it could be classified as a trade secret.
Also trade secrets are methods, not facts (i.e. private data cannot be a trade secret, but a method of securely storing private data can be).
 
Taken to a ridiculous extreme, you might consider any log containing an IP that you've appeared from to be "your" private data. But at the same time, it'd be madness if someone could spam the site and then say, "hey, you gotta delete the rule that blocks this IP, 'cause that IPs my private data"
 
I'm in the office tomorrow where I have my big stack o' commentary books about gdpr so I can look how they define trade secrets / legitimate interests of third parties that prevent disclosure. Based on what shog said my guess is that they argue their legitimate interest outweighs the user interest of wanting to know that
 
@Magisch My guess is the company would simply find an excuse to exempt the information, but not by classifying it as explicitly secret.
 
10:36 PM
There's a provision about reasonableness and overweighing interest in there somewhere
 
Probably just confidential.
 
@Shog9 Interestingly, while someone might sue over that, you could easily maintain the spirit of the rule by widening the specific ip block to a range block (pseudonymizing the data) without sacrificing much accuracy
 
All the balancing of rights stuff I find pretty obnoxious. It's just lawmakers deciding not to bother fleshing out any of the details that companies actually need to know in order to comply with the law and punting the rulemaking to the courts.
 
iirc my local regulatory authority considers private data to be anonymized if the circle of people that data can relate to is greater then 25
 
@Magisch Unfortunately, restricting it to a specific subnet would either not be anonymizing enough (like a /24), or would include far too many users (e.g. a /16).
What I did for one of my sites was hash IP addresses with a per-boot key.
That allowed me to keep track of users without needing to store the IP itself.
 
10:39 PM
yeah... It'd essentially be, "can't block one troll, but can block half of India"
 
yeah
 
which is pretty stupid tbh
 
And of course they could trivially use proxies.
 
that's part of whats half done with gdpr where you'll have to have lawsuits to find out what is actually going to be enforced and whatnot
 
and do, which means in practice blocking a spammer or troll means blocking many IPs... If those had to be blocks large enough to certainly cover 26+ people, that'd be a lot of collateral damage
 
10:41 PM
Another conundrum where the lecturer for the certificate training program (the lecturer was a subject matter lawyer of 15 years) couldn't give a straight answer is, if someone wants no cookies can I set a cookie that stores that fact and nothing else?
 
And most proxy lists aren't in one block. :P
 
I hope the answer was, "nope, gotta use localstorage"
 
he said no and no localstorage either
essentially the popup will have to happen every time a non consenting user opens the site
 
Though oddly enough one of my proxy lists has like 5,000 totally random IPs, but more than 100 on one specific /24. I have no idea why.
 
"but in practice nobody has challenged this in court yet so nothing concrete is known"
 
10:42 PM
well, back to passing all state data in querystrings and every link on the page rewritten on each request. LIKE IN THE GOOD OL' DAYS
 
@Magisch There are other ways you can store that data without cookies.
 
[...] Mark a "geezer" [...] -- Shog9
the truth is out!
 
The same way that saving the fact that someone has requested their data to be deleted can't be saved after the fact because that fact itself is personal data
face meet palm
 
"Please turn your web cam on and hold this QR code up while browsing our site"
 
E.g. HSTS-based "cookies".
But I have no idea if GDPR considers those to be cookies.
 
10:45 PM
In practice gdpr works out to "so complicated most small businesses dont even try to comply"
which is a shame
 
@Magisch Why would this possibly not be allowed under the GDPR? What rule could setting such a cookie violate? Surely it's clearly not "personal data"?
 
I don't comply, but I also know jack about GDPR. And don't save PII anyway.
 
@MarkAmery iirc (mountain of salt pls) cookies that your website can read are personal data
 
@MarkAmery It reveals that they have visited the site, for one.
 
collecting of which has to be justified somehow under article 6 gpdr somehow
 
10:47 PM
But I really don't get why cookies, of all things, count as personal data...
I mean they're really quite benign. Only tracking cookies are nasty.
 
Not sure
we just switched our website to not use any cookies anymore
it's just an online brochure so that works out fine
turned off google analytics and piwik and said to hell with it
 
Google Analytics is evil. Good for you.
 
90% of people who visit our website do it to download datasheets on some services we offer anyways, and it's not used for much else besides containing contact info, so w/e
 
11:10 PM
This is perhaps the most gloriously "Too Broad" question I've ever seen: stackoverflow.com/q/53326736/1709587
There are so many things about it that make me grin. The fact that it's tagged with java, javascript, c#, php, and c++ being one of them.
In summary, the Q is: We're trying to design and build all components of an integrated air traffic control and autopilot system including aircraft-to-ground, ground-to-aircraft and aircraft-to-aircraft comms as part of our Youth STEM Challenge. However, we "realised we would need some programming". "What programming language would we have to learn".

I'm not even mad. The earnest scale of the ambition is delightful.
 
11:55 PM
"Hello, I am new to java, javascript, c#, php, and c++..."
 

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