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2:08 AM
@SomethingBadHappened not entirely sure if linking all that ... helps in any way
I think everyone who really needs to know knows, and the calling out of folks is a bit...
Well, there's a big potential for drama of the sort I think everyone would rather avoid
 
mornung
 
s/would rather avoid/has already had and is tired of/
 
2:24 AM
XD. that too
I've had a long night and I think I'm erring on diplomacy ;)
 
hmm... looks like I missed Hot Network Conversation last night... catching up
 
2:45 AM
well, I'll just say this: Stack Overflow should hide HNQ like Math Overflow instead of banning Interpersonal Skills
ran away from follow-up discussion
(halp! i don't know MO's magic link!)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:11 AM
well, we definitely need SO to run through virtual reality on blockchain with artificial intelligence...
 
4:36 AM
I've moved those as it was flagged. Please don't be offended by that.
 
4:50 AM
What do I wake up to
 
9 messages moved to Chimney
 
@Magisch Friday! Yay!
 
5:31 AM
@JohnDvorak they listen. They never act. Or maybe after years of discussion and careful planning.
 
or after somebody bounces the request on Twitter
Hey, that's an idea. Who has a twitter account and what do we want implemented the most?
 
Ask a question wizard
 
@JohnDvorak Pretty sure just tweeting does nothing. You need some relatable moral outrage to go with it
cause you know whatever these days
 
I hear StackOverflows are pretty bad. Can't we spin that on twitter?
 
Oops I accidentally on the left bar on #SE, lost an answer and almost killed @person. Maybe they should remove the left bar. Just saying.
 
5:37 AM
lol
 
@Magisch I might actually ask a question/sort of FRish thing on how SE handles twitter from our end once things cool down
 
@JourneymanGeek give it 6-8 months
last time we had more then half a year of caustic discussion on meta about it
this time it seems to be worse
 
@Magisch I was thinking the end of the week
and welllllll
its me
 
Go for it if you like, i'll upvote it
 
I'm roughly the second least controversial person on the network? ;p
 
5:40 AM
That would be Joel. He gets universal hate but not much controversy. The controversy is whether we should delete his stuff, or if he's protected because he gives us money.
 
I was thinking Monica XD
(since I do occationally get sucked into drama)
 
whatever these days
 
@Magisch Twitter: voting fraud organized in chat rooms on SE
 
catija's response on ips meta doesnt lend much hope to the situation
basically "yeah, we got scared by a tweet. sorry not sorry"
 
"we got scared by a tweet" -> keeps happening
4
 
5:42 AM
interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/3335 for the masochistic that want to blow another gasket
 
And well, it would be nice to have something solid in place like "this is how we intend to handle tweets in future - in consultation with the community"
 
I'm so not willing to believe that unless they make some serious effort to mend relations with the community
a big apology post on MSE and a concrete plan on how to avoid this kind of disrespect in the future. I'm not going to demand resignations because that's just silly, but we need something more then "yeah, sorry"
 
Hey, shooting someone in the face is also "effective and easy to implement since it would fix the perceived problem immediately and there was already a technical solution in place for doing it."
Just saying.
 
@Magisch see, that's why I want to wait
I feel exactly the same way
 
"We want this site to continue to improve and grow and do the work of making the world a better place" -- III'm not so sure about that.
"helping people improve their interpersonal skills, which is something everyone needs" - thanks.
 
5:46 AM
And this probably needs cool headed, slightly calculating me ;p
 
I mean discussing religiously sanctioned wife beating on religious sites is apparently not a cause for HNQ exclusion
 
@Magisch actually that's something they need to work out
 
that'd be one where I'd accept a snap reaction to
 
They seriously need a 'cheap' way to kick stuff off HNQ
 
yeah
 
5:47 AM
There already is. Make a stink out of it on Twitter and ban the whole site.
 
maybe a site regular way to vote for hnq exclusion
 
@JohnDvorak not really helping.
 
sorry
 
user194636
we shouldn't ban humour, especially now
 
@PaulWhite Heh. Although I'm usually really fond of the kind of pessimistic humour I've been seeing places lately
..
Can we now just do puns?
 
user194636
5:53 AM
puns ought to be safe enough
 
Now I can't remember a good pun of course... :/
 
There aren't any good new gallows puns anymore. All of them are now hearse, eh.
I mean, everything you can think about is old noose by now.
 
user194636
@JohnDvorak ow!
 
@JourneymanGeek surely there is nothing official. SE employees use their own personal accounts on Twitter and can decide certain things on their own. I agree this better be changed or at least formalized somehow. E.g. in cases as the HNQ scandal have SE official Twitter account reply something official and more professional.
 
@JohnDvorak :D
 
6:07 AM
20K laptop flickering meta.stackexchange.com/questions/316983/… (needs 1 more)
 
@ShadowWizard or make a corporate policy completly forbidding any discussion of company related matters on twitter
like other big companies have
and then have a single official twitter account that curates responses to these
 
@Magisch SE is not a big company ...
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad ns for domain in answer (1): Reboot Windows 10 PC remotely by Iris Halbert on superuser.com
 
@rene they surely started acting like one though in other matters.
 
Hey y'all, would you mind if I ask a quick opinion question about the new featured HNQ meta?
 
6:21 AM
go ham, I don't care
 
@ShadowWizard yup or at least have a shared idea on what happens the next controversial tweet
 
unless it reaches a thresold of causticness
 
Y'think they're actually going to change stuff about HNQ based on the answers?
 
absolutely not
 
Because I think that most of the stuff written there has already been said elsewhere, either in chat or meta or wherever.
 
6:24 AM
Nothing groundbreaking in the answers indeed
 
I expect at most a platitude or two and then the thread will die the same death in obscurity as the literally dozens of hundreds of upvote threads on the welcoming subject did.
 
@thesecretmaster I don't really suspect it's a priority
 
It is to allow venting and then continue on whatever route we are
 
I have a serious question: why did SE post that question if they already know they won't give a flying damn about the answers?
 
What's the point of an apology if they don't change their actions?
 
6:27 AM
Ow
 
I wish that somebody had replied to that tweet with "I'm so sorry you saw that. Can you write a post on our meta site (link) so that we can discuss changes to avoid that happening again?" instead of "That's a problem, let me go fix it." I hope/think they had internal discussion, but I feel like the point of meta is so that discussion isn't internal when it doesn't need to be.
 
I like that idea
 
I mean, none of this affects me/my site directly yet, but the situation makes me sad.
 
All of this affects everyone eventually.
 
the fact that the decision making process hasn't included any community feedback in a while is something that does trickle down into everything, though
 
6:33 AM
Including trust
the staff should work hard on building some of it again
 
we got this:
@EmC For what it's worth, I think the actual question/answer content on IPS is generally respectful and well-curated. What I was going for was that I agreed that the question titles screenshotted in the quoted tweet weren't a good look for Stack Overflow. In hindsight, if I were to do this again, I'd do two things: 1. choose less absolute wording on Twitter; 2. wait before pushing the change through to allow for more upfront communication here. I apologize for doing neither of those things; I should've known better. — Adam Lear ♦ 11 hours ago
I think that'll be the end of it, though
 
any chance the next response to Twitter will be just as swift despite the apology?
If so, it will anger many people including me. Just saying.
 
People on twitter are now demanding that two of our IPS moderators should be removed for speaking up in defense of the site on twitter though, so it'll be interesting to see the response to that
 
@Magisch I'm not sure that those two things would solve the problem anyhow. I think that 2 should sound more like "Talk to the community on ips/so to see how we can best solve this problem" rather than "Wait before pushing the change"
 
wt
PS: it's impressive that we've managed to skip what and wat and go directly from what. to wt
 
6:37 AM
They're "DM trolls" apparently
 
@Magisch I think that was just somebody non-CM at SO making a whoopsie rather than malice on their side or demands that mods be removed, if we're thinking of the same tweet?
 
@thesecretmaster I mean they're calling out "DM Trolls" as "Site moderators". I'm not sure what that is if not a call to punish them.
Maybe it's just because of the inevitable loss of nuance in the twitter format, but.
 
Yeah, but I think that's just them being unaware of what they're saying/speaking rashly, not really evidence of much besides the fact that they aren't totally aware of the context/situation (which twitter makes easy).
 
I still don't get what's so wrong about Q#2. Not a word from the staff yet and yet they killed IPS because of it.
 
@JohnDvorak from what I heard on the meta question from other people, these are apparently sexist and ableist tropes and problematic
I'm not being facetious btw, the passive language is because I disagree but won't get into that right now
 
6:42 AM
how
 
While we're talking about controversies, did anything besides the new CoC and new contributor indicator and new flags come out of the big inclusivity push a while back?
 
nope. "Be nice to newbies because we say so now" in everyone's face is all I can think of.
 
@JohnDvorak I'm wholly unequipped to be devils advocate in that discussion. Start here and read down for the discussion
 
> We don't want Twitter - or Reddit or any other external site - to be where users go to get real change to happen on the network.
this has happened since years ago... like, "Why I hate SO" blogs and friends...
 
I do totally see a very reasonable way for the "let's remove ips from HNQ, it won't make a big splash" decision to happen. Tweet -> Internal Chat -> People mentioning other HNQ complaints/metas on ips about how hnq sucks -> Assuming people will agree with change -> Change Happens.
 
6:45 AM
This distrust discussion is also just a last straw :P
 
user194636
@thesecretmaster not yet. I think we are being asked to be patient and wait for good things to happen
 
@thesecretmaster the ask a question wizard is in the works apparently
 
user194636
i.e. to trust them
 
but looks like it's been abandoned
 
Oh, yeah, that wizard.
 
6:46 AM
Did it not go live? I thought it was in AB testing or something?
 
user194636
last I saw there was a manual preview available to all
 
@thesecretmaster Maybe they don't have a PR person on staff
because if they had that PR person would be barking mad for the way communication was handled
 
Any chance we'll eventually get push notifications over the mobile site now that the Android app has turned into mushy pulp six feet under?
BTW
 
user194636
presumably that's what responsive design is for? to retire the apps?
 
We have the community team but where is the voice in the community team that goes "Hold on for just a sec, the way you're planning to do this is going to go down like a lead balloon"
 
6:47 AM
Same topic it seems?
 
user194636
oh yes
 
@TravisJ yeah, move on...
 
There is a deep irony in your statement.
 
Sure... irony is my whole life, it's in my blood cell...
 
Your one blood cell?
 
6:49 AM
^
 
I kinda think that SE Inc has pushed a lot for the userbase to reform. Maybe we could try pushing for internal reform. Unlikely to work, but I don't think that's been tried on meta? e.g. a meta suggesting a new internal twitter policy.
 
Please do
 
It prolly wouldn't get any staff/internal attention, but I don't think anyone has tried something like that?
 
@thesecretmaster that's what I was talking about earlier
But I personally feel waiting for things to cool down a bit makes sense
 
Out of curiosity, did that question not bother any of you?
Twitter and HNQ and titles aside.
 
6:53 AM
There's a fine line between waiting for things to cool down and trying sweep it under a rug. Personal experience off the wire.
 
I didn't even see it tbh
@JohnDvorak I don't have any interest in the latter
 
At first glance it didn't seem like much to me, maybe just awkward. But looking back on it, it kind of strikes me as problematic.
 
@TravisJ dunno, my eyes naturally filtered out questions from IPS though
 
Yeah, I try to avoid looking at the HNQ list myself, but since the featured mse question was all about it, it was hard to miss.
 
The "how not to get flirted at" one? I didn't study it in great detail. May I get a tl;dr on what's problematic about it?
 
6:54 AM
I do have an interest in improving how these things work in the long run
 
Yeah, but my tl;dr; might be kind of a wordy paragraph :P
 
The simplest one is certainly user preference to show/hide HNQ, the second is also user preference to filter out sites on HNQ
 
@TravisJ Didn't bother me, but I've stared at HNQ a lot. I can see how it would bother folks who hadn't. At the least, it's strange to see on a programming site.
 
If you were going to volunteer somewhere as a young adult male, would you really choose a girls only middle school? Further, is it really flirting if someone makes small talk suggesting you dressed up (common among kids), as well as asking if you are married (often kids assume adults in places of authority are married). To me, the whole situation is very strange, and borders on predation.
 
That preference already exists in the form of uBlock
 
6:55 AM
And here's a critical thing. If I did it now - I'm sure it would get hijacked
 
@TravisJ good point. I missed that girls-school part entirely.
But did that TP refer to the question at hand, or just its title?
 
@JohnDvorak man -> girls. That is problematic
 
Title alone. They didn't address any of the content from what I saw. That was just from me looking at it.
 
@TravisJ It's definitely weird, but that's not particularly different from HNQ in general IMO.
 
The title aside, my main issue was the post strikes me as really odd. That was all.
 
6:58 AM
And regardless, I don't think those questions are the problem here. I think the problem is the fact that and the manner in which SE responded to the tweet.
 
IPS does get a lot of fake user stories. Either that, or some of its users have had really busy lives in the past year or so.
 
@thesecretmaster My point was tangential, but related. I just wanted to air it.
 
Workplace also did get a series of fake questions that got into HNQ...
 
And IPS meta is explicitly okay with fake user stories.
 
user194636
I agree the question itself is a side-issue and a matter for IPS, but wasn't the asker Sonic?
 
6:59 AM
Yes
 

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