Tavern on the Meta - 2017-10-17 (page 2 of 3)

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1:00 PM

amazing

something like that

@rene they made the cheese into meat, if anything. Not just moved it. :D

From Power Calculations to P-Values: A/B Testing at Stack Overflow

Julia Silge on October 17, 2017

If you hang out on Meta Stack Overflow, you may have noticed news from time to time about A/B tests of various features here at Stack Overflow. We use A/B testing to compare a new version to a baseline for a design, a machine learning model, or practically any feature of what we do here at Stack Overflow; these tests are part of our decision-making process. Which version of a button, predictive model, or ad is better? We don’t have to guess blindly, but instead we can use tests as part of our decision-making toolkit. …

Journeyman Geek

...... Suspicious timing

@JourneymanGeek Julia is probably watching us. ;)

1:08 PM

programmers@community.org

@rene what is the 'reopen-pls' button? a request to SOCVR?

yes

user315433

Is there ever a blog article (outside of podcasts) that doesn't end with "go to Stack Overflow Jobs"? It's the Carthago delenda est of SO blog.

user315433

Well, by now Jobs is raison d'être of the blog, so whatever.

Journeyman Geek

@Desire pretty sure no.

1:11 PM

@Desire ceterum autem censeo carthaginem esse delendam

@Desire not since Jeff left

Don't you get it? On April 1st, 2018 Stack Overflow will be a Job Board with attached forum ...

Probably he was against turning Stack Overflow into Jobs Overflow, hence left when he saw it's a lost battle.

Journeyman Geek

Eh. Also Jeff was the blogger.

probably because job advertising pays more then just running modest display ads

didn't jeff say it was because his kid was born

second kid, mind

1:13 PM

So he said so.

user202362

Career must be the 'in' thing, I have a couple of job oriented startups spamming me, anglelist and referhire being two of them

The world is shifting to more service-based jobs for more people

pretty much near all the big startups are some kind of service, not an actual product

Fact is, Stack Overflow is not what it used to be.... at this point, it won't be surprising if they'll break all the "rules" Jeff worked so hard to set, e.g. allow animated ads, starting to offer "Power Users" for money, etc.

physical product startups are relatively rare, but even then they have to service it up like by selling specific juice bags for this ludicrously overpriced wifi enabled juicer

Merasal is going to release tomorrow. Hope it'll available within noon on Tamilrockers

@JourneymanGeek know what I mean

1:16 PM

@OptimusPrime I don't know what either of these are

@Magisch patents the frigging juicer

Journeyman Geek

tamilrockers is the big tamil movie piracy site

@ShadowWizard Jeff hasn't been part of SO for 5 years now. He's been away longer than he's been an active part of it.

Yeah @Optimus love to download movies illegally

@JourneymanGeek A movie site about pirates?

1:17 PM

@JourneymanGeek not just tamil movies. South indian. Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu and Kannada

plus hindi and hollywood

Journeyman Geek

@OptimusPrime I don't pirate tamil movies ;p

@rene I didn't actually make this up. There is a startup selling a 400$ wifi enabled juicer (down from originally 700%) that only works with proprietary pre-chopped and pre-diced plastic juice bags for 7-9$ per 200g glass.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch juicero is dead no?

is it?

@Magisch O_o

1:18 PM

I did a presentation on it like a year ago in school on stupid startup ideas

Journeyman Geek

theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/01/…

@Magisch 9$ for a glass of juice

@Oded define "away"... public activity on the site(s) doesn't mean much, Joel also posted only very few posts or comments all the years SE exists. What matters is what's going on behind the scenes, in the management level.

@Magisch And, you got a E- because they survived?

user202362

I think it went bust

Journeyman Geek

1:19 PM

@rene That's pretty close to why I failed SM

@ShadowWizard You can probably assume that Oded knows more about the management level of SE then you do :p

Journeyman Geek

I basically posted an answer that mostly reflected what ended up happening (other than one thing I didn't forsee) and one solution which made sense at the time and I failed

@ShadowWizard that is what I am talking about. I've not seen Jeff once since joining the company. I see Joel once a week on average.

@Magisch think he joined as employee only after Jeff left, so....

Journeyman Geek

so I got teed off, and totally just copied stuff off the internet on an open book exam so...

1:20 PM

Yeah but still

@ShadowWizard yes, which was ~5 years ago.

You learn stuff through the grapevine

@ShadowWizard agree. Because ... (I can't find the reason. may be later)

@Oded so it only strengthen my assumption something was off long before he actually left.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard I'm half certain people are just too busy to blog ;p

1:20 PM

I'm only at my current employer for 2,5 years

Journeyman Geek

other than marketing, who... eh, marketing man.

Yet I know more about the intricacies of the growing pains of the company then an outsider does. Despite that happening 50 years before I joined :p

user202362

@Oded over a monitor I assume, I mean, you can view him on youtube any days of the week you like ...

Raqqa is taken by army. IS has fallen

Journeyman Geek

@Telkitty supposedly SE's a massively heavy user of hangouts

1:21 PM

@Telkitty maybe he got a poster of Jeff too... ;)

working for SE sounds like it's super cool

Journeyman Geek

(also, while I'm a bit of a fanboy of the atwood, I'm not sure SE's current course caused him to leave)

@Telkitty yeah. I am talking about Joel communicating to the company - getting updates every week from him.

You can stay on SE all day and do things to do with it and get paid for that

express.co.uk/news/world/867481/…

Journeyman Geek

1:22 PM

@Magisch yet people leave ;p

@JourneymanGeek iirc SE has very little turnover

@Oded you're from UK right? so are you working in US or joel is on UK too?

Journeyman Geek

@OptimusPrime SE has people all over

user202362

@OptimusPrime over a monitor

@Telkitty makes sense

Journeyman Geek

1:23 PM

there's even a current CM allegedly in the phillippines (one of the tims) and there was a japan based one until recently

@OptimusPrime I am in London. Joel is usually in New York. I am talking about getting communication from him - in a leadership capacity.

Sadly SE pretty much only hires senior devs

As a company - Joel is very much part of it. Jeff, however, hasn't been since he left.

Well at least all their openings are for senior devs

@Magisch tell that to our interns.

Ah, our current openings.

1:25 PM

@JourneymanGeek I don't know a human. But I used to see a type of king kong from that place

I wonder when Jeff's Wikipedia page will be updated with his decision to take a long break?

Jeff Atwood is an American software developer, author, blogger, and entrepreneur. He writes the computer programming blog Coding Horror. He co-founded the computer programming question-and-answer website Stack Overflow and co-founded Stack Exchange, which extends Stack Overflow's question-and-answer model to subjects other than programming. Atwood's most recent project as of 2012 is the development of Discourse, an open source Internet discussion platform. == Career == Atwood started a programming blog, Coding Horror, in 2004. As a result, he met Joel Spolsky, among others. On July 17, 2007, as...

@Oded I've been side-eyeing openings for a while now and the only dev opening I ever saw was for a senior full stack developer

Haven't seen anything community related as opening yet ... I assume SE hires those from site moderators or via headhunters

> Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript.

speaking of that, what's happening with Gabe?

atwood rule

1:26 PM

he's apparently not a CM anymore, but he still shows in the CM list in the TL and he's still got a diamond

Gabe is now working as an Enterprise support engineer.

He's still transitioning.

@Oded if he really left just to be with his family more, I'm pretty sure he would have still be involved, even if only giving tips. And he wouldn't have plunged into a 200% job of founding a whole new site from scratch, which most likely take even more of his time than SO did.

But... we can never know for sure.

Ah, okay.

Is he going to stop showing up in the TL as a CM?

@Mithrandir nope, the list was updated 6 days ago and he was removed

109

A: Who are the Community Team, and what do they do?

Who is on the Community Team? Robert Cartaino Shog9 hairboat Grace Note Tim Post Jon Ericson Pops Ana Nicolas Chabanovsky bluefeet Juan M animuson JNat What do they do? They help you out. No, really. But yeah, that's about the most generic non-answer ever....

@ShadowWizard not that list, the list in the Teachers' Lounge

1:29 PM

@Mithrandir eventually.

@Gabe hey there! Congrats for your new role in SE. :-)

@Mithrandir what other lists are there? ;)

@ShadowWizard can't tell you that ;)

:(

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I don't actually remember a dev who's a direct ex mod

a good chunk of the CM teams were mods in places tho

new goal: be in one of the lists in TL :D

Journeyman Geek

1:34 PM

(Adam's an exception, but he's a mod -> cm -> dev ;p)

@JourneymanGeek jeremy banks

Journeyman Geek

Ahh.

@JourneymanGeek That's what I was referring with the community team being mostly hired from SE staff

@ShadowWizard thanks! The bad part is that I won't interact with the community as much now. The good part... Is that I won't interact with the community as much now

@JourneymanGeek Marc Gravell, Jeremy Banks, Adam Lear.

Journeyman Geek

1:35 PM

@Oded wasn't marc somewhere else?

and adam dosen't count, CM first ;p

@Gabe mixed feelings, eh? :P

Marco was (and is still) a mod.

Marc Gravell was elected mod on stack overflow afaik

Journeyman Geek

Oh, skilvitz at some point too. however he's spelled (SORRY)

@JourneymanGeek nope. Adam was a mod on Programmers, then on SO before CMing.

user202362

1:35 PM

@AdamLear is suberb ... mainly because of the amount of cats he owns ... and he unbanned once.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded that's kinda vaguely what I meant?

unless you mean he wasn't a mod shortly before he CMed

@Mithrandir absolutely. Especially with regarding SOpt

I think JG meant the path went mod > CM > dev instead of mod > dev

Journeyman Geek

(and I don't think anyone's been hired as a CM when I was a mod, or I totally missed it sooooo)

@Oded what @Mithrandir said ;p

@JourneymanGeek hmm, JNat?

Journeyman Geek

1:36 PM

@Mithrandir might have totally missed it

Ah "direct".

user202362

you almost convinced me that SE is not entirely written by one person, and you are all bots (except the programmer him/herself) ... sometimes I think maybe I am the only real users who is not a bot

Journeyman Geek

Cause its the sort of job I completely would have tossed an application for at least speculatively

I actually haven't seen a CM opening on "work here" ever

I also think there won't be one. Why hire from outside sources when you have your pick of the moderators?

@Magisch eh, sorry about that. Got your email in my list still, just... backlog keeps building.

1:37 PM

@Telkitty we are all the creations of Craver.

hmm, I don't see Marc Gravell showing up on stackoverflow.com/election

@OptimusPrime Looks like it also got deleted. I suggest not posting things that get flags - as much as others might agree with the sentiment.

@Mithrandir pro-tempore mod on SO.

@Shog9 Wasn't meant as moaning tbh

@ShadowWizard conceptually simple. Implementation less so.

1:38 PM

I know your plate is full of things and only keeps filling

@Magisch The only one I ever saw was for Spanish CM

Journeyman Geek

...man pro tempore mod, SO... dude, oldschool.

@Oded eh, predates both the pro tempore program and the current election system.

@bluefeet Well if you guys ever need a german cm :D

Journeyman Geek

(granted I think we still have a oldschool appointed mod in random)

1:38 PM

voted in by a bespoke election page that no longer exists

@bluefeet mine was there too

@AaronHall agree. But I am helpless in that situation

Journeyman Geek

@Gabe you were the spanish CM, right? ;p

** THIS ROOM FLOODED WITH SE STAFFSSSSS**

Joel even linked to it on Twitter, which is how I knew about it

1:39 PM

@Gabe not sure if I saw it though :P

... you'll probably have many better applicants then me. But I'd still apply for it

@Shog9 ah. Longer history than I know.

!!/blame

@OptimusPrime It's rene's fault.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch heh, there would be some competition, sure ;p

1:39 PM

@bluefeet well, Brazilians are sneaky

lol

oh and hi @Gabe!!!

@SmokeDetector :(

Hi @bluefeet!

I can assume SO gets like 200+ people applying per job

1:40 PM

Hi everybody!

So there isn't really one where competition isn't fierce

@Magisch at least.

I'm here, CMing the hell out of this chat room

5

waves petals

Nominate a New Stack Overflow Moderator

Jeff Atwood on March 20, 2009

Stack Overflow has exactly four moderators: Joel, Jeff (me), Jarrod, and Geoff. It’s no coincidence that the list of moderators is identical to the list of co-founders and mainline developers.

As we launch the upcoming IT / SysAdmin sister site, we’ve had very little luck locating notable folks from that community to act as moderators and spiritual leaders for the site. So we’re flirting with the idea of promoting users with high reputation scores and the respect of the community to moderator status. …

1:40 PM

@Oded conservative estimate?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I can think of 2-3 people interested who'd probably be awesome fits.

:D

@Gabe and you start doing it when you aren't even a CM. That's impressive

used to be a wealth of comments there, but they were lost in one of the blog migrations

@Gabe cheers! You wait for the transition to be over before updating your About Me? ;)

Anyway, I can see what you mean.

Journeyman Geek

1:40 PM

@Gabe you got a licence for that?

still

one misses 100% of the shots one doesn't take

Journeyman Geek

exactly

@OptimusPrime We all have the ability to exercise self-control. It is expected of all users. If you're not in a good place to deal with new users asking bad questions - don't.

@ShadowWizard I'm technically already transitioned, and working on Enterprise full time, save for a few emails here and there on outstanding issues. The About Me will never be updated, to throw off our Enterprise clients

I was actually a candidate in the very first election. Fairly nominated by blog commentators who were not me. (and you can't prove I'm lying, 'cause the comments are gone...)

user202362

1:41 PM

you need a female moderator, and you should have chosen Yvette

@Gabe evil. I like it.

@JourneymanGeek I.. Don't think so. I guess I'm still drunk with power from my CM days

@Shog9 And when you became CM you got rid of all the evidence. That's what happened to Shogs 1 through 8 :p

@Telkitty why would they need one?

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 I ran my SU election entirely from a phone, and my original pitch was "I'm standing, I'll update later"

@Magisch we do not talk about 1-8

user202362

1:43 PM

political correctness of course

@bluefeet once a CM, always a CM (by that I mean "handsome and amazing")

@AaronHall there're lots of off topic questions appear here in MSE too. if the op didn't show the efforts, then we can guide. but for off topic, we can tolerate. I didn't made that comment as rude. But he deserves such a response

@Gabe obviously.

@Gabe rofl... I have underestimated you! :D

@JourneymanGeek you're not kidding o_O

1:44 PM

@Telkitty we need the best people for the job, regardless of gender

user202362

define 'best'

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir I wasn't

"most skilled for the job"?

user202362

skilled at what

@Telkitty 'the ones who will do the best job and not mess up too badly'

1:44 PM

I voted for Yvette in the last election but not because she's female

user202362

I need figures, things need to be more objective than subjective

Moderation is a lot of soft skills

so best is going to be subjective to everyone

Journeyman Geek

^ this

hence elections

user202362

...

1:45 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: how to cancel unconfirmed transaction in blockchain.info by jone on bitcoin.SE

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch on the other hand, a good chunk of what I think makes a good mod, doesn't need the diamond

isn't it a diamond

Journeyman Geek

its a diamond

it used to be a star, though, I think

at the very beginning

Journeyman Geek

naw

I think its always been a diamond

1:47 PM

Thing is for moderators

there is an abundance of qualified people on places like SO

So it mostly comes down to personal preference

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch based on what tho?

user202362

in what ways are the existing mods more superior?

Journeyman Geek

@Telkitty they won the election

user202362

hit me with examples

^^

1:48 PM

@OptimusPrime nobody deserves to be treated rudely. The downvotes and comments telling them that their question is off-topic is sufficient admonishment. You said I've told you before. So now you've been told at least twice. Don't treat users that way.

@JourneymanGeek Everyone has slightly different criteria but I think level headedness, fairness, ability to deal with insults / trolls without losing your temper

user202362

she told me she came 3rd and sometimes SE choose all three

transparency, having a strong knowledge of procedure and availability

user202362

unless she has not been telling me the truth

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I can tell you that a lot of mods lack one or more of those ;p

user202362

1:49 PM

since I don't follow elections, I don't even vote most of the times

*hides*

@JourneymanGeek Well this is just the criteria that I vote by

Journeyman Geek

I have days I lose my temper

I'm just smart enough to take a walk.

Generally not though

Journeyman Geek

or go super sarcastic

1:49 PM

@AaronHall you told that. but still I didn't understand what's the problem with such a comment.

or at least you can recognize when that happens and not ban people because you lost it

Is commenting does you google broken is rude?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch banning people is boring

when I get annoyed at users I start writing in ALL CAPS IN A TEXT EDITOR TO BLOW OFF STEAM

Journeyman Geek

Other than whatshisface.

1:50 PM

@OptimusPrime yes

user315433

@OptimusPrime yes

+1/-0

+2/-0

@Telkitty This appears to be correct

yes

There were only 2 positions available, though

user315433

1:51 PM

FR: polls in chat, like in Twitter.

@Mithrandir wrong format

And this was advertised from the start

Journeyman Geek

@Telkitty if a mod steps down or they really need another one, and its too soon.... they pick one more

user202362

so what's the odds of election end up with 3 mods instead of 2 (if I could have the stats please)

Journeyman Geek

@Telkitty depends on how many mods are needed

1:52 PM

@Telkitty They decide ahead of time how many positions there are going to be

Journeyman Geek

so a new site will have 3, then they'll do 1 or 2 depending on how many are needed to top up

Some have 3 open spots, some have 1 or 2

Journeyman Geek

so when I stood, we'd lost 1 mod, and we needed more so we got 2 folks elected.

@Telkitty see stackoverflow.com/election

@Telkitty I won third in the Puzzling.SE election, 14 votes behind second place (in a two-mod election). The first two won, and that's fair. The top ones by community vote win. Third may get called up later if necessary, but that's not predictable.

Journeyman Geek

1:53 PM

On the other hand on the last one, there was one spot cause we were just replacing a mod who quit.

@Mithrandir also means you just got rid of 2 people more likely to win than you in an election ;)

Yvette got close though

maybe she'll run again

Journeyman Geek

yup

@Mithrandir nope, in the beginning there was no symbol at all, e.g. see this

user202362

SO this is the only time with only 2 mods elected

Journeyman Geek

Being a current mod's useful

1:54 PM

Diamond was added somewhere between April 2009 and February 2010

@Telkitty You can't argue that this is due to the results though

@Telkitty THERE WERE ONLY 2 SEATS ... ;)

For every election the open spots are announced ahead of time and don't change

Journeyman Geek

yup

@OptimusPrime yes

1:56 PM

Everyone knew going into the 2017 election that there'd be 2 spots

@Magisch unless there are fewer candidates than open spots...

I think if we all use all caps and bold we get a much healthier debate

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard not likely to happen on a big site

@ShadowWizard Then the election nomination period gets extended and/or the election gets cancelled

@JourneymanGeek True.

1:57 PM

You need spots+1 candidates to avoid having the election cancelled

@Magisch always?

Yes

I've seen in here some elections got cancelled due to lack of candidates

Question updated

> Is commenting does your google broken is not rude?

like... data science, I think?

There has to be an actual choice for an election to make sense

1:57 PM

+3/-0

Journeyman Geek

@OptimusPrime is

also is rude and bad english

user202362

who exactly decides how many mods get elected?

@OptimusPrime seriously now, comments like that are rude, plain and simple. Maybe it won't get you banned, but in the long run it cause more harm than good.

@JourneymanGeek not a native english 🔊

Journeyman Geek

@Telkitty the mods

user202362

1:59 PM

...

@Telkitty I think the CMs and mods do this together in a kind of consensus way

Ahead of the elections

yup

@Telkitty the CMs and the mods decide before the start of an election.

Journeyman Geek

^

They figure how many more people they'll need to cover the workload and elect that many people

1:59 PM

@Magisch surely @Desire got a list somewhere.... :)

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