Tavern on the Meta

4:01 PM

This comment thread is getting incredibly long. Can we please continue the conversation in Tavern on the Meta? — Unihedro just now

yellowantphil

!!/so2015

SmokeDetector

@yellowantphil Yay for the 2015 Stack Overflow Moderator Election! Election voting begins in 2 days, 3 hours, 49 minutes and 38 seconds.

tchrist

@Unihedro He’s an idiot. At least, he’s known for shillinesseseses like thoses.

Infinite Recursion

*known

tchrist

Déjà corrigé.

But thanks. :)

Infinite Recursion

4:14 PM

:)

Unihedro

@tristan You is mistakening yourselves, you knows; themselves is a plural pronoun and themself is a singular pronoun, while they, them, their, theirs can all go both ways. It’s been like that for the last seven hundred years, so ye may wish to give up tilting at windmills that aren’t theirs :) — tchrist 3 mins ago

me is enlighten'd

yellowantphil

"themself" is not in either Merriam-Webster dictionary :-\

Braiam

@yellowantphil should be now admonishes a scholar

yellowantphil

they like to accept crazy new words, if they find evidence of their use

Unihedro

@yellowantphil If it's not a word yet call it an omniword.

And nope, "omniword" is not a real word.

yellowantphil

4:18 PM

so omniword is an omniword?

Unihedro

Recurse ALL the things!

Infinite Recursion

@yellowantphil We accept crazy new words only if bjb approves them.

Jan Dvorak

How about recursive recursion?

Unihedro

Wait what.

YES!

yellowantphil

"kitteh" is Merriam-Webster's word of the year

Jan Dvorak

4:19 PM

FML

Unihedro

Foo:
    function foo() {
      return foo.bind(this) && goto Foo;
    }

tchrist

@yellowantphil Words do not derive meaning from dictionaries, but from usage.

Infinite Recursion

"thuroly" is the word of the year

Sep 13 '14 at 23:53, by bjb568

He thot thru thuroly tho no solution was found.

yellowantphil

@tchrist but if it isn't in Merriam-Webster, then they apparently haven't seen enough usage

Unihedro

Today is a good day.

Andy

4:22 PM

If only we had a place where we could ask such questions about the english language

Unihedro

Metaenglish Usage?

gunr2171

@Unihedro Today is a bad day for Jon Skeet

Unihedro

Oh?

Jan Dvorak

@Andy Unfortunately it's been overrun by korean lately

gunr2171

if he had that score

tchrist

4:22 PM

@yellowantphil M-W is hardly the dictionary of record for the English language, I rather hope you do realize.

gunr2171

I use Urban Dictionary

yellowantphil

@tchrist I am talking about American English. I only checked M-W because I'm logged into that account and didn't feel like going to the OED

tchrist

.

@yellowantphil Tsk,

yellowantphil

@tchrist do you disapprove of American English?

or my laziness in not checking the OED

Unihedro

Why not both?

||>should I go to sleep

Caprica Six

4:26 PM

@Unihedro "SyntaxError: missing ; before statement"

Second Rikudo

||Should uni go to sleep?

Caprica Six

@SecondRikudo Certainly not

Unihedro

Oh.

Welp.

runs away before lemon notices the ping

ProgramFOX

||Should Uni stay awake?

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX Nuh-uh

ProgramFOX

4:27 PM

So... he should not go to sleep, but he should not stay awake. :P

Unihedro

ummm

ProgramFOX

||Is Unihedro really Unihedro?

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX No

Infinite Recursion

||Should Uni eat noodles?

ProgramFOX

hah

Caprica Six

4:27 PM

@InfiniteRecursion Absolutely not

Second Rikudo

2

Infinite Recursion

:D

Jan Dvorak

||should noodles eat Uni?

Caprica Six

@JanDvorak Certainly not

gunr2171

@ProgramFOX schrodinger's chat member

Unihedro

4:28 PM

@SecondRikudo That torch is red. :S

scaryyy

Infinite Recursion

||Should Uni chat?

Caprica Six

@InfiniteRecursion Probably

So much failing.

4:30 PM

stolen from gunr :D

gunr2171

: D

ProgramFOX

:D

gunr2171

I'm gunr2171 and I approve this user message

ProgramFOX

||Should spam be deleted?

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX Impossible

Unihedro

4:31 PM

Forgot to add attribution :(

ProgramFOX

@CapricaSix welp, that would be bad :p

Unihedro

Thankfully Community<> is strong. :p

ProgramFOX

||Is Community♦ strong?

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX Of course!

Unihedro

^~^

ProgramFOX

4:33 PM

@Unihedro Cap likes your statement :D

Unihedro

||Is Cap a good bot?

Caprica Six

@Unihedro All signs point to yes

Unihedro

:D

gunr2171

||Should I try to break Cap?

Caprica Six

@gunr2171 I can neither confirm nor deny

gunr2171

4:37 PM

||Should I stage an elaborate coup d'etat involving whales, a ladder, and my neighbour's third illegitimate child all in an attempt to raise my Stack Overflow reputation level?

@gunr2171 Yes!

SWEET

Wait

||are you serious+

@JanDvorak Definitely

Unihedro

4:38 PM

Cap is not a lawyer take her advice with a grain of salt do not rely on advice from internet chatbots your mileage may vary do your own research.

ProgramFOX

||Should we rely on your advice?

Jan Dvorak

||are you a lawyer?

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX Yes!

@JanDvorak Doubtfully

Unihedro

Recursive advice... >_>

gunr2171

well.... who to believe?

Unihedro

4:39 PM

Bots of course!

WAIT

Me!

gunr2171

unless......YOU are a bot Uni!

ProgramFOX

||Is recursion still recursion if it's not recursive enough?

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX Yes!

Unihedro

@gunr2171 ?!

In that case, this message would be contradicting with itself because I'm a bot and I posted it:

ProgramFOX

||Is Uni a bot?

Unihedro

4:40 PM

1 min ago, by Unihedro

Cap is not a lawyer take her advice with a grain of salt do not rely on advice from internet chatbots your mileage may vary do your own research.

Caprica Six

@ProgramFOX Doubtfully

Unihedro

mind = blown();

gunr2171

we already exposed Sam

in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, Jan 23 at 16:30, by gunr2171

Sam has been lying to us all along. Pham is actually the human, and Sam is the bot. Pham has really bad social skills, and Sam has really good AI.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in body: is there a way to copy from a particular string to end of the file using batch script by Rajesh Nayak on stackoverflow.com

gunr2171

^ needs an edit

Second Rikudo

4:45 PM

@gunr2171 Needs a heavy dose of napalm.

gunr2171

that too

Second Rikudo

Is @SmokeDetector's source available somewhere?

ProgramFOX

@SecondRikudo yep, github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector

Unihedro

@SecondRikudo It's in Python and depends on ChatExchange, just so you know.

gunr2171

who runs smokey?

ProgramFOX

4:47 PM

@gunr2171 it runs on Undo's server

rlemon

@Unihedro hwat?

Unihedro

@rlemon So sorry! Nothing.

rlemon

||are they abusing you?

Caprica Six

@rlemon Of course!

rlemon

okay, carry on.

Unihedro

4:52 PM

LOL

user259867

As soon as Korean characters got blacklisted, the spammers stopped. Of course they may be back tomorrow...

user259867

!comp time in Korea

bjb568

1:58:22 am KST | Thursday, April 16, 2015

Alexis King

Martijn has "reached ~9.0m people" according to the new SO profile.

user259867

Yeah, they obviously need rest after working so hard throughout the day.

Alexis King

4:59 PM

However, Skeet has reached ~111.6m.

user259867

@AlexisKing Ooh, let's rank the candidates by PH index.

user259867

Or is it now PR index.

Alexis King

@pizza Let's rank the candidates by pH!

user259867

BalusC reached 72m, Darin Dimitrov 57m. It seems there are only three users with 50m+ PR

user259867

Martijn's PR is somewhat low for a high rep SO user. Probably because he started later than others.

cky

5:02 PM

@AlexisKing Read your PM on IRC (if you haven't already). :-)

user259867

@cky Are you developing built-in PM feature for SE, by any chance?

cky

@pizza No, we're not building any direct user-to-user contact features, to the best of my knowledge. (Speaking for myself, not on behalf of the company.)

Jan Dvorak

so, still no decent way to bug users about their suggested edits?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: EXCEL: INVERSE TANGENT by user2543482 on math.stackexchange.com

Jan Dvorak

Not even a link from a main profile to a chat profile?

rlemon

5:07 PM

give everyone a so email account and force it public

user259867

@SmokeDetector fp edited

SmokeDetector

@pizza Registered question as false positive and added title to Bayesian doctype 'good'.

user259867

@rlemon Or everyone with 30K.

Jan Dvorak

30k users aren't whom we usually need to contact

Unihedro

so close to repcap ._.

user259867

5:12 PM

lang-SO sites don't have the new profile yet.

user259867

SE staff are probably thinking up the translations of People Reached.

yellowantphil

does that welcome message have to pop up every time I load my profile? I keep closing it

terdon

@yellowantphil It'll probably go away in 6-8 weeks.

@pizza You mean non-English ones?

user259867

Yes, those.

user259867

@yellowantphil I closed it once, on Meta, and never saw it again.

Anonymous

5:17 PM

Accounts that are "hidden" in your new profile aren't yet hidden on SE.com.

yellowantphil

@pizza now it's gone. my proxy server may have been messing with me earlier

user259867

I reached more people on meta.math than on the main math site (123k vs 115k), and on meta.SO than on SO (5k vs 2k)...

Sue

Would someone kindly tell me if the "top tag" in the Activity section of the new profile is supposed to have a little button allowing us to choose our favorite, in the way that the Badge feature does? I don't have one. I think I've seen references to it in the discussions, but I can't find them. I don't want to report it as missing it it's not supposed to be there! Thanks!

user259867

@Sue Top tag is the tag in which your posts got the most votes. It's the current leader, not a goal. So it can't be chosen.

Unihedro

Sue

5:25 PM

@pizza Thanks! I wondered what it was in the first place. As always I'm grateful for your help-saves me from asking more dumb questions that just clutter up the site!

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: NO SOUND IN HEADPHONES BUT SPEAKERS WORKS FINE by ubunju on askubuntu.com

Unihedro

Me tired, good night!

Infinite Recursion

Night! :)

...ping uni uni uni uni...

rene

go to sleep and don't come back for another 6-8 hours @Unihedro

user259867

Or at least until 0:00 UTC, when spam flags are reloaded.

Johannes Kuhn

5:30 PM

I have the feeling that someone stole the code from my answer and posted it as answer to the same question.

rene

Technically it is not longer your code ...

Do you have a link?

Johannes Kuhn

Interesting thing: his answer is CW.

0

A: TCL/TK How to check if a string is empty

I haven't tested it but try to check the length of string instead. if { [ string length $Input ] == 0 } { puts "string is empty" } else { puts "string is not empty" }

rene

Ah, that OP felt something was not good

Johannes Kuhn

mhh, did I link the wrong answer?:

0

A: TCL/TK How to check if a string is empty

if {$input ne ""} { puts " Non-empty string " } else { puts "Empty string" }

Code Only, CW, posted after someone else wrote basically the same code...

it's a bit strange.

rene

No, that user has over 3K

Johannes Kuhn

5:35 PM

yeah. the other answer is also wrong. But a wrong answer is easy to deal with...

rene

I wouldn't have posted it I guess but beyond that not much to go on

Johannes Kuhn

A correct answer which is basically just a copy of someone else (maybe not copy) and CW?

Lynn Crumbling

@bummi The expression blend thing? Thanks - just flagged it

Unihedro

Good night @inf @inf @inf @inf ^^ Keep up with the good work @rene

rene

;)

@JohannesKuhn I left a comment for that OP. Let's see if we get feedback

Undo

5:39 PM

@JasonC around?

Jason C

Yo

Undo

So how does your election thing work?

the live vote thing

Alexis King

@Undo magic and unicorns

Undo

I see it's making ajax requests back to the server, what does the server do with them?

Jason C

github.com/JC3/SOVoteMonitor

Johannes Kuhn

5:39 PM

@rene thanks. didn't know exactly how I should handle it.

Undo

yeah I saw that but I'm too lazy to go decipher Java

Lynn Crumbling

@JohannesKuhn Will that answer even work? It references $input instead of $Input

Jason C

@Undo Basically, my server scrapes the SO election page for vote counts every 5 seconds and caches the info locally. The AJAX requests get the cached vote counts. There's also one request on page load to get candidate user names and IDs to build the initial table.

Alexis King

@JasonC It's written in Java? :(

Johannes Kuhn

@LynnCrumbling he could also use foo. I don't see a problem with that.

Jason C

5:41 PM

That's about it. Sorting and stuff is done client-side.

user259867

@Undo Jason C can now add to his nomination speech (btw, see how lazy Undo is?)

Jason C

@AlexisKing Deal with it. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/74583?m=22660649#22660649

Undo

@JasonC Hrm, okay

rene

Is java a language, not coffee?

Alexis King

@JasonC Eclipse?!?!?!

D:

Jason C

5:41 PM

You love it.

Undo

Then I Have a Thought.

Alexis King

Eclipse must be mining bitcoins or something. I don't know how else it could use that much processing power as a Java IDE.

4

rene

@JohannesKuhn me neither but best is to have someone else leave the stingy comments

Johannes Kuhn

0xCAFEBABE

Jason C

Basically, there would be virtually 0 server load if the entire thing was done client side. But I don't know enough JS to parse and scrape pages. There would be a lot more requests to SO that way too but I'm not too worried about that, SO is a big boy.

I barely was able to scrape together the front-end page. Every line was a Google search...

Alexis King

5:43 PM

@JasonC You can't do it in pure JS anyway because of the same origin policy.

Johannes Kuhn

Greasemonkey FTW

Undo

What if one was to make it cache the post IDs locally, for a couple minutes at least, those won't change. Then instead of loading the whole page, send requests to http://stackoverflow.com/posts/####/vote-counts, spaced out every few seconds so the server doesn't become angry with you. Then have a websocket the client connects to, and you broadcast the vote changes over the websocket

Seems like it would be much more server-friendly.

user259867

@AlexisKing whateverorigin.org can help

Alexis King

@pizza That's kinda cool.

Anonymous

@pizza Nifty to know of, thanks.

user259867

5:44 PM

(I saw AstroCB using it in one of his scripts)

rene

@Undo seems like it gets much over-engineered for something that ends in 2 days

Undo

@rene oh of course, I'm thinking out loud

I'd build it in Rails if I didn't have better things to do

rene

That makes you sound like an software architect, don't do that

Jason C

@Undo Two things. First, my server is only querying /elections/6?tab=primary once per 5 seconds. That's the only query SO gets. So from SO's point of view, it's already very light. The AJAX requests from the page are to my server, getting my cache. They're pretty tiny and so far so good. So I'm not too compelled to change. But more importantly:

Jan Dvorak

consider using websockets

Undo

5:47 PM

Yeah, websockets are the big thing.

Jason C

SO's /posts/###/vote-counts only gets data for one post, while /elections/6 gets everything at once (although without up/down vote details). So to get the 5 second resolution I have now I'd need to do 30 requests to /vote-counts every 5 seconds. That will get me IP banned. Also I believe I need to authenticate; not sure off top of my head but /vote-counts might require established user privileges.

As for websockets, I'm not a web programmer. I know nothing about websockets. I'm totally not averse to them and have no compelling reason not to use them except I don't know how and the current system is working so far.

Undo

Just thinking that websockets should be much lighter on the server, although it ends in four days anyway so meh

Jason C

It really comes down to me scraping this together as a quick hack, and not knowing much about web-related technologies. I know Java, and I know C++, and I already had a server set up running Tomcat.

Yeah I'm sure it would be. And I definitely should implement it that way as a learning experience. But for now I have to settle with what I know.

Alexis King

> Yeah, websockets are The Big Thing™.

FTFY

Jason C

My learning experience this time was using jQuery (which is surprisingly intuitive).

Alexis King

5:49 PM

(sshhh, nobody tell bjb)

Also, honestly, jQuery is dead, long live MVC frameworks.

rlemon

@JasonC next time do everything needlessly with HTML Canvas

rene

MVC is now a framework?

Alexis King

@rene No, but Angular, React, and Ember all are. :)

rene

I watched an intro on Angular, for the others you get a blank stare from me

@AlexisKing did you use any of those frameworks in a real-world project?

Alexis King

@rene I did with Angular. It was a joy to work in.

Undo

6:03 PM

!!/alive?

SmokeDetector

@Undo Watching this endless list of new questions never gets boring

rene

@AlexisKing I'm bound to support IE8 for a while and it looks like I'm stuck with 1.2 in that case.

Alexis King

@rene Aww. What do you have to do that needs IE8 support?

rene

I have municipalities as customer and they don't migrate easy. They even did buy extended support so they could use that crap longer (yes, I'm talking about you Windows XP)

Alexis King

Bleh. Dealing with that sort of thing is always a pain. I wish you the best of luck.

rene

6:08 PM

I'm seriously considering to packaging my app with Google Chrome but that would bring me full swing into desktop support which I really don't want....

Jan Dvorak

node-webkit

or maybe a chrome frame?

rene

what is that?

That also requires installation, right?

Jan Dvorak

node-webkit just packages node.js + webkit + your page into one executable

rene

@JanDvorak interesting. I try to find if it runs on windows xp

@SmokeDetector fp

SmokeDetector

@rene Registered question as false positive and added title to Bayesian doctype 'good'.

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive body detected: Run loop freezes program by user3558177 on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in answer: RedMi 2 Bootloop after MIUI update by user102584 on android.stackexchange.com

[ SmokeDetector ] Email in body: What phase is WO2008051513 A2 in? by user13950 on patents.stackexchange.com

bjb568

6:38 PM

@bjb568, yes, kinda - but it's not really good English, is it? I certainly wouldn't make that recommendation to anyone. I think John Lawler said it very well, actually. — Kristina Lopez 51 mins ago

> @bjb568

> really good english

Jan Dvorak

says teh kitteh

bjb568

@AlexisKing not for web

Bart

btw "sentence" @bjb568

bjb568

@JasonC new WebSocket()

Mooseman

> Quotes are always authoritative. -Mooseman

Jason C

6:41 PM

C:\Users\Jason>new WebSocket()
'new' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

@bjb568 Didn't work :( do I need lunix?

On a more serious note; does the client-side WebSocket api transparently support reestablishing dropped connections?

Jan Dvorak

Nope. Look into Socket.io

bjb568

Unless you need to support really old browsers, you don't need socket.io

rlemon

xhr fallback is always nice

Alexis King

@bjb568 says bjb, pure.js door-to-door saleskitty

bjb568

@JasonC I mean, it's not hard to implement listening for the close event

Jason C

6:52 PM

I'll mess around with WebSocketServlets and the client side after the election. It'll be an interesting learning experience. For now I'm not going to put much more effort into it.

bjb568

Ok

Transcript for