Tavern on the Meta

Tim ManishEarth

2:00 PM

American

Tim jadarnel27

@Lix American

Lix

well no wonder I didn't get it :P

Tim jadarnel27

So there is a general "Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals", and then there's an unnecessary, redundant American version? Awesome.

And also, sounds about right =)

Tim Yi Jiang

Tim ManishEarth

@TimPost Doesn't HT do that?

Tim Yi Jiang

2:04 PM

Also, I just read the headline "The Maturation of the Billionaire Boy-Man" as "The Masturbation of the Billionaire Boy-Man". What is wrong with me?

Tim Post

Well they do go hand in (proverbial) hand, @TimYiJiang

Tim ManishEarth

Hmm, I found the Tavern in Gujrati (I can only recognize the language, not understand it) .. Still, looks like we have more fun here :)

Tim jadarnel27

@AnnaLear has blue hair now :o Cool.

Tim ManishEarth

@Timjadarnel27 Same cat, though

Tim jadarnel27

True, menacingly remaining near her head.

Cats always like to linger near your vital organs. So they can make short work of you if the need ever arises. Or just when you least expect it.

Tim ManishEarth

2:11 PM

YOU CAN IGNORE USERS ON CHAT???

awoodland

yeah

Tim jadarnel27

Yep. If somebody is being an obnoxious troll.

awoodland

click on the person on the left

Tim ManishEarth

All this effort for nothing :/

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth Yup. Didn't you read the faq?

Tim ManishEarth

2:13 PM

@TimYiJiang Sort of...kind of... not really

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth Eh...

chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/faq#mute

Tim ManishEarth

Yeah, I got that

still, that ones better--it keeps a count of the posts

The Tavern is currently at an activity level of seven Tims

awoodland

Voted to deleted and got: "1 posts (10530917) have been closed as a duplicate of this one; continue anyway?" - since when did that happen? More confusingly though the post it referred to isn't closed as duplicate, it was closed as NARQ and merely linked to it

Tim ManishEarth

@awoodland bug TIME!

awoodland

yeah

Tim ManishEarth

2:21 PM

[tag:ƃnq]

No unicode, awwww :(

-

Interesting

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth Will somebody please think of the Australians?

Tim ManishEarth

@TimYiJiang sǝızzo ɹood ǝɥʇ ɹoɟ pǝxıɟ ǝq ʇsnɯ sıɥʇ ˙ǝǝɹƃɐ I 'sǝʎ

Tim jadarnel27

<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

I love bash.org sometimes.

awoodland

0

Q: Vote to delete warns that of other duplices that aren't duplicates

I was going to vote to delete this question. I clicked the delete button and confirmed it and then got: "1 posts (10530917) have been closed as a duplicate of this one; continue anyway?" 10530917 does indeed exist, but it was closed as "Not a real question". There's a comment linking to the...

Tim ManishEarth

@awoodland Have run out of upvotes. Will give you rain check

:P

awoodland

2:25 PM

spotted the typo as soon as I posted it

Tim jadarnel27

Aw. I really like "duplices". It's like, the Roman God of Duplication.

2

"Hail, mighty Duplices, and swing thy hammer of swift closure upon this post."

awoodland

I could roll it back if you liked? That's how memes get started isn't it?

Tim Yi Jiang

The current @Tim to non-Tim ratio in this room is 7:8

Tim ManishEarth

Quick! Kick @lix

Anonymous

Power is almost within our grasp!

Tim ManishEarth

2:28 PM

then we can start taking over

Tim Yi Jiang

@Timjadarnel27 I am Duplices, and so is my wife

Tim jadarnel27

@awoodland I have a feeling your rollback would get rolled back =)

awoodland

I'm curious now if that message is new and is it something all voters see or just the last one?

Tim jadarnel27

@TimYiJiang Oh yeah? Well I...don't know what that means.

What does that mean?

Anna Lear

@TimManishEarth I tried to dye the cat, but she wouldn't have any of it.

Tim Yi Jiang

2:32 PM

►

Which is itself a reference to the movie Spartacus

Spartacus (film)

Spartacus is a 1960 American epic historical drama film directed by Stanley Kubrick and based on the novel of the same name by Howard Fast. The life story of the historical figure Spartacus and the events of the Third Servile War were adapted by Dalton Trumbo as a screenplay. The film stars Kirk Douglas as rebellious slave Spartacus and Laurence Olivier as his foe, the Roman general and politician Marcus Licinius Crassus. Co-starring are Peter Ustinov (who won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for his role as slave trader Lentulus Batiatus), John Gavin (as Julius Caesar), Jean S...

awoodland

@AnnaLear I swear that cat is in the exact same spot as the previous photo!

Tim Yi Jiang

@awoodland Although now we see less of Anna

I predict the next photo will just be a picture of the cat

Tim jadarnel27

@TimYiJiang I'm fully with you now.

Anna Lear

@awoodland Nah, she was on my shoulders in the last one.

Tim jadarnel27

I'm a twin, so perhaps my brother and I could be Duplices as well.

Tim Yi Jiang

2:36 PM

Hey, there's nothing wrong with a picture of a cat. It's the internet after all

Tim ManishEarth

@TimY Btw, for the australians: $('body').css('-webkit-transform', 'rotate(180deg)')

Tim Yi Jiang

I've been using this as my gravatar on SE chat for a while now

@TimManishEarth ಠ_ಠ for using webkit only

awoodland

@Timjadarnel27 the "Romulus and Remus" of duplicates?

Tim jadarnel27

@awoodland Haha, yes! Although I suppose that means our accounts on Music.SE should be closed as exact duplicates of one another.

Tim ManishEarth

@TimY Btw, for the australians: $('body').css('-webkit-transform', 'rotate(180deg)').css('-moz-transform', 'rotate(180deg)')@timY happy?

(theres something else for opera, but who cares :p )

Tim jadarnel27

2:39 PM

You forgot to support IE6.

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth You could pass an object so you don't have to call css twice

Tim ManishEarth

?

Oh

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth Also, ಠ_ಠ

Tim ManishEarth

That way I could just use document.body. But it loses jQuery value :p

@timY aah

Tim Yi Jiang

This is probably one of the most depressing development in web standards for a long time

Tim ManishEarth

2:43 PM

Hey!

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/32276/…

How did random bypass the binding CV?

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth He wasn't a mod back then

That'd be my guess

Anna Lear

@TimYiJiang yes, that

Tim ManishEarth

Aah :/

awoodland

There's a few questions that have close votes from 3 mods

Tim ManishEarth

Oh, someone else bumped it.. I thought it was new

Anna Lear

2:47 PM

@TimManishEarth yeah, the accepted answer got edited

Tim jadarnel27

Trying to explain to a brand new CS student how to make their procedural program more object-oriented is...difficult.

Moshe

Morning.

If I weren't a hypocrite, I'd ask @AnnaLear why she isn't a Tim.

Tim ManishEarth

@Moshe morning :)

Tim Yi Jiang

@Timjadarnel27 Next up, haskell!

Tim ManishEarth

Yes, @anna, why aren't you a tim?

2

Popular Demand

2:48 PM

@Timjadarnel27 How'd you even get that task?

Moshe

There's a country called Timbuktu. Or, in Tavern-speek Timtimbuktu.

Anna Lear

@TimManishEarth I'm a Tim in my heart.

Popular Demand

@TimYiJiang Followed by Prolog, no doubt.

Tim Yi Jiang

@Moshe It's not a country. At least, not any more

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand A girl I used to work with is taking an intro CS class, and I helped her with her first couple assignments. She just e-mailed saying that her last project is to take the previous assignment she wrote and make it "object oriented"

So it's more volunteer work than anything else =)

awoodland

2:50 PM

@Timjadarnel27 they teach objects first here which produces the opposite problem

Tim Yi Jiang

@awoodland You mean I don't have to do the private foo extends virtual interface baz? By Golly!

Tim jadarnel27

@awoodland Haha, no kidding? That's interesting. I've never really considered that possibility. Sounds like a much better problem to have.

Tim Yi Jiang

(I have no idea what I just wrote there)

Popular Demand

How to teach intro CS is a fascinating problem that I wish I knew more about. Seems that it comes up every few weeks somewhere, but the people involved invariably all look at each other and say "well, I don't know" and then stare awkwardly at their feet until some other topic comes along for them to focus on.

Tim Yi Jiang

Have you read any of the CS 101 texts?

awoodland

2:54 PM

In an ideal world you'd take half the class and teach one way and the other half another way and repeat that for a few years, but the ethics panels don't like that apparently and faculty don't like it either

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Don't forget Lisp.

Tim ManishEarth

@timj )))))))))

Tim Yi Jiang

@awoodland Pfft, we've got SCIENCE to do!

AB testing \o/

Popular Demand

@Timjadarnel27 You say that like I'm not counting down the days until I get to start using my father's parentheses.

Tim jadarnel27

@TimManishEarth I see you remember =))))))))

Popular Demand

2:56 PM

@awoodland Just pack the university's IRB with computer scientists. Yeah, no way that could go wrong....

awoodland

they do do some studies like that, but they all end up with loads of other variables always

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Great xkcd reference, as usual =)

Tim Yi Jiang

@PopularDemand My father uses FORTRAN. Though he also uses Python, so that balances things out a little

Tim Post

@MarcGravell It thinks Joel Spolsky is my sock puppet. I can neither confirm nor deny that, but might be worth a look :) — Tim Post 13 mins ago

3

@Tim I can't recall seeing you both at the same time - GUILTY!!!!! — Marc Gravell 6 mins ago

Popular Demand

@Timjadarnel27 Until then, I'll just have to keep hacking things together in Perl.

Tim Post

2:57 PM

Drat, ratted out.

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Yeah, but real programmers use butterflies.

Tim Yi Jiang

So why would you share an IP address with Spolsky?

Tim Post

I don't :P

Tim Yi Jiang

Maybe... @TimPost is Spolsky's sock puppet! /conspiracy

Tim ManishEarth

@Tim unite! A fellow @tim is in trouble!

awoodland

3:01 PM

@TimYiJiang that's on topic on sceptics.SE right?

Popular Demand

@Timjadarnel27 As butterflies are non-native to this area, I'll have to use an emacs simulator. (Or go to the zoo. Do zoos have butterfly gardens?)

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand Try moths. They are everywhere, right?

Popular Demand

@Timjadarnel27 Spoken like someone who sets out dishes of, not honey, but vinegar.

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand I have heard you can catch more flies that way. And I love catching flies.

I genuinely don't understand what is being said in this answer.

Tim Rob Hruska

Man, I leave for an hour and miss 172 messages and 5 @tim notifications. We must be in Iceland. And no, @Timjadarnel27, I do not volunteer for your science.

Tim Post

3:13 PM

You forgot about the part about it being Friday.

Popular Demand

@Timjadarnel27 I just read that and thought the same thing!

But I assumed I was the one with the communication problem because it got 11 upvotes.

Tim jadarnel27

Glad I'm not alone. That's what I did too. "This must make sense, it has 11 upvotes."

Popular Demand

Maybe... maybe we should both get out a bit more.

Tim jadarnel27

Me: So I thought, "This must make sense, it has 11 upvotes!"
Friend: ...what the hell is an "upvote"?

@PopularDemand Perhaps you are correct.

Daniel Fischer

@Timjadarnel27 what the hell is a "Friend"?

3

Tim jadarnel27

3:23 PM

@DanielFischer Some guy that keeps trying to get me to go to a place called "outside", which is apparently nowhere near my computer.

@awoodland I've flagged it for moderator attention, since it's actually more than a rant and offers no real solution. — casperOne 3 mins ago

Daniel Fischer

A troll?

Tim jadarnel27

@DanielFischer Hahaha

awoodland

@Timjadarnel27 I guess he didn't want to delete an answer competing with his

(don't have 10k on meta to see who actioned it)

Tim jadarnel27

Ah, that makes sense.

Popular Demand

@awoodland Bill did.

He left a comment first (let's see if deleted comments onebox):

> This probably should be a separate feature request post. I do think the system should let users delete as many of their own 0-voted posts as they want, which is separate from the Community flag issue that moderators are seeing. – Bill the Lizard♦ 2 mins ago

Moshe

3:33 PM

@TimYiJiang Details details.

awoodland

oooh hit 4k helpful flags

Tim jadarnel27

4,096 helpful flags? That's awesome.

Popular Demand

Again, Eric Lippert brings the knowledge:

@shanabus: I'm not offended in the least; I am mystified! Why do so many people ask "which of these two things is faster?" and expect a reasonable answer other than "try it and then you'll know"? — Eric Lippert May 2 at 16:09

(See also the entire answer that comment is attached to.)

Tim jadarnel27

This is great.

@PopularDemand That whole answer actually just comes across as really dick-ish.

(to me, anyway)

Especially the last paragraph.

Popular Demand

I guess it depends on what tone you think he's using.

I have no experience with performance questions, so I found it useful.

I can see it from your point of view, though.

Tim jadarnel27

3:50 PM

@PopularDemand I've rarely (if ever) seen a clearer explanation of the "which of these two things is faster?" problem, so I definitely see how it's useful.

But opening with the long rant about how no one can know but the OP, and the OP's not asking the right question, and the OP's still not asking the right question, all seems quite unnecessary.

And then closing with the sarcastic bit about microseconds and nanoseconds.

Tim ManishEarth

Everyone has bad days, @timJ

Tim jadarnel27

Maybe he just needed to get that out of his system =)

Popular Demand

Perhaps I'm naive, but I didn't think that was sarcasm, just a somewhat odd attempt at humor.

Tim ManishEarth

Maybe Eric had seen one performace question too many

Popular Demand

One more and we can get him to pull a bobince?

Tim ManishEarth

3:55 PM

@Pop actually, so did I

Tim jadarnel27

Darn you @PopularDemand for linking that question. It's got me all in a tizzy. Whatever that means.

Tim ManishEarth

YESS!

Tim jadarnel27

@PopularDemand That, or I'm cynical and reading sarcasm where it doesn't exist.

Tim Yi Jiang

0

Q: Why can you create new tags, but not their descriptions, at 1500?

Sorry, but my curiosity got the better of me. I have to know! What is the rationale behind giving people with a reputation of 1500 the ability to create new tags, but not descriptions for the tags? I would have thought that "create a new tag" and "enter a description for said tag" would go toget...

feature-request tag-creation

Tim ManishEarth

The center cannot hold it is too late.. But the question is, why is it late?

Tim Yi Jiang

3:56 PM

A side note, would it be more logical to refer to what is currently called "tag wiki excerpt" as "tag description"?

Popular Demand

Is it too late? Better run some benchmarks to see if it actually finished in time.

(I said, as if I knew what that meant.)

Tim Yi Jiang

Since the excerpt isn't really an excerpt nowadays

Anonymous

@TimYiJiang Yes, yes, yes and yes. I think I've seen that suggestion before...

Tim ManishEarth

4:09 PM

@TimY answered. Pretty interesting

Tim Stone

> If you have a high score on the tag, you can

That's not true.

Even if you're the top user in the tag, you still have to get your edit approved unless you have more than 20k.

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimStone Yeah, that used to be true

A very long time ago

Moshe

►

Tim Stone

@TimYiJiang gets out cane Back in the day...

Tim jadarnel27

@TimStone "...we had to walk to Tag Wikis, barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways."

Tim ManishEarth

4:14 PM

@TimS alrighty, will change

Anonymous

@TimManishEarth >_>

Tim ManishEarth

Damn, I hate it when all the meta posts aren't updated when something changes

Tim jadarnel27

4:28 PM

@Moshe I love that video.

Tim ManishEarth

@TimJ "This video is not available on mobile" hate that

Hmm, my vote cap on MSO is affecting my ability to vote on PSE

Tim jadarnel27

I downvoted a post earlier today, and then it was deleted (so I didn't lose any rep). When I went to my rep tab, the "-1" graphic was still on it. Does that seem slightly buggy? When I clicked on the tab, I saw both records (-1, +1).

@TimManishEarth Me too. Also I don't understand it. And I hate things I don't understand.

Anonymous

@TimManishEarth Hmmmmm?

Tim ManishEarth

4:49 PM

@TimSite I have only one upvote left on meta, so im saving it for a good 'un . Unfortunately, mobile has the same upvote bitton styling on all sites, so I sort of hesitate to vote on Phy.SE

Timootinator

There, I managed not to but IntelliJ for myself before convincing my employer to. Mission accomplished.

Anonymous

I have a question I asked two years ago which was actually two questions in one. That's ugly, so I'd like to fix it, but that would unfairly invalidate some of the existing answers. Baaah.

Tim jadarnel27

Anonymous

@Timjadarnel27 Oh, that's what you meant. I misread; that does seem bug'ed.

Tim jadarnel27

@TimSiteisaForum Thought I'd make a picture because I wasn't explaining myself well =)

Tim ManishEarth

4:57 PM

@timJ not a bug, the blue thingy displays rep change since last visit

For some reason, I only have 198 rep yesterday even though I hit the cap

Tim jadarnel27

@TimManishEarth You're not a bug. And the rep changes since last visit was "0" =)

Tim ManishEarth

And its not due to a deleted post

@timj aah

I mean, I was stuck on 200 the whole evening, then I get a downvote and it goes to 198.. But usually wafflevotes compensate for this O_o

Did a recalc as well

Tim jadarnel27

@TimManishEarth That seems odd.

Tim ManishEarth

Ill recheck on my comp tomorrow and post a bug report

(I sorely want Epic/Legendary)

Tim jadarnel27

LUNCHTIMEZ.

Timootinator

5:04 PM

TOO EARLY

Tim jadarnel27

Just because it's too early in your fake Canadian timezone doesn't mean I should have to wait =)

Canadians. Pshhh. Always judging.

Anonymous

@Timjadarnel27 Indeed. I'm chowing down in the real Canadian timezone.

Tim ManishEarth

Have any of you heard Canadian Idiot? (Parody of a well known Greenday song)

Tim jadarnel27

I have that whole album (Weird Al)

Anonymous

@Timjadarnel27 Indeed. In the real Canadian time zone, we're mostly finished with lunch.

Tim jadarnel27

5:08 PM

@TimSiteisaForum Ooooooh.

@Timootinator just got served.

Or will get served when it's lunch time for him.

Anonymous

haha

Timootinator

Mmm, will get served in 1 hour.

@TimSiteisaForum Alberta is the new real Canada. The people in the wrong timezone have yet to come to terms with that.

Tim ManishEarth

You should be a student. Students don't have timezones

Timootinator

Reference for above

Anonymous

@Timootinator If Wildrose had won, you might be on to something. As things are, I think our majority-of-the-Canadian-population still dominates. :P

Tim jadarnel27

5:11 PM

@TimManishEarth Really? Because when I graduated and got a job where I had to wake up at 8am, it certainly felt like I had jet lag =)

Timootinator

@TimSiteisaForum Ha. You might be onto something there.

Tim jadarnel27

quietly slips out for lunch after starting a fight between the Canadians.

Tim ManishEarth

@TimJ I'm impervious to jetlag :D

@timJ fellow Tim! Wait for me!

Anonymous

@TimManishEarth Oh, yeah... what time it where you are?

Tim ManishEarth

10:45 pm

10:46

;-)

Anonymous

5:16 PM

Keep me posted!

Tim ManishEarth

10:46:50

Like that?

Timootinator

Incidentally, the Don Valley Parkway is appropriately named.

Anonymous

I'd ask for better, but the five-second delay between messages makes it impossible.

Timootinator

11:17:19

Anonymous

@Timootinator o.O Where'd that come from? :P

Timootinator

5:17 PM

Hmm, I managed not to freeze time there.

@TimSiteisaForum Just observing that my 40 minute commute is considered EXTREMELY LONG around here, lol =)

Apparently that's merely average in Toronto.

Anonymous

Ah, yeah. :P

Timootinator

That was incidentally my wife's excuse for moving 1/2 hour out of the city. "Suck it up." she said. She grew up in a town an hour drive from Ottawa.

Anonymous

5:33 PM

Do any of you ever print out copies of code to work on it?

Anonymous

I think maybe I should should fix my video card and get this second monitor working. >_>

Timootinator

I used to do that from time to time.

Mostly before IDEs had code completion, etc. though.

Anonymous

Ahh. I do it most often when I need to heavily refactor some not-great code. I find it easier to follow messy code when it's on paper and when I can write all over it.

Tim ManishEarth

@TimSite Take screenshots and load it into Paint! You can FHRC it! What nore do you need?

Anonymous

@TimManishEarth ... why did that never occur to me.

Anonymous

5:39 PM

You've probably just saved a tree, over the length of my career!

Tim ManishEarth

:P

Tim Yi Jiang

Chernoff face

Chernoff faces, invented by Herman Chernoff, display multivariate data in the shape of a human face. The individual parts, such as eyes, ears, mouth and nose represent values of the variables by their shape, size, placement and orientation. The idea behind using faces is that humans easily recognize faces and notice small changes without difficulty. Chernoff faces handle each variable differently. Because the features of the faces vary in perceived importance, the way in which variables are mapped to the features should be carefully chosen (e.g. eye size and eyebrow-slant have been found ...

So apparently this is a thing

Rebecca Chernoff

>_<

Tim Yi Jiang

That's a Chernoff face alright

Tim ManishEarth

(:

builds a chernoff-face castle

Got to go now

Anonymous

5:46 PM

Cya

Tim ManishEarth

Have fun, all of you (except for the Canadians)

:p

Tim jadarnel27

6:26 PM

HULK PUT MINIFRIDGE UNDER DESK!! TELL BIG BOSS IT SERVER!!

Tweeted by PREPRESSHULK on January 18, 2012 at 1:18 PM

This stuff is really funny if you work / have ever worked in the printing industry.

@TimSiteisaForum Looks like @TimManishEarth was correct, this is not a bug:

3

A: Reputation tab shows wrong change if downvoted answers were removed

The value up top does not include changes from deleted posts (see those 2 "+1 removed"?), this is by-design. We can't keep both totals, it'd be a recalc every time you toggle the "show removed" textbox and a change in trigger behavior depending on the preference (which is way, way, way more co...

TimTimTimTimTim.

Anonymous

@Timjadarnel27 Ah. That's reasonable.

Tim jadarnel27

I'll show you reasonable, buddy!

It's amazing how well that thing that shows similar questions based on the title you're typing works.

Oh @PopularDemand. You and your chat problems.

Tim Post

6:48 PM

The biggest mistake Microsoft ever made was not making Clippy cry.

Tweeted by tinkertim on May 11, 2012 at 6:46 PM

Lix

Hi all... good evening everyone!

Tim jadarnel27

Vote for this! — Waqas 7 mins ago

Oh, we'll vote alright.

That was quick.

Anonymous

Oh, wow. What a post.

Tim jadarnel27

Can you see it?

Anonymous

6:55 PM

I have my Magic.

Popular Demand

Bit of a silly post, but not exactly a candidate for rapid deletion, in my opinion.

Lix

jepers... talk about going off topic in comments ;)

Daniel Fischer

I like how Pop and you used it for something constructive, @Timjadarnel27.

Tim jadarnel27

@DanielFischer Haha, indeed.

I am notoriously constructive.

Popular Demand

Hey! I started it!

Wait, that's not how that usually goes.

Daniel Fischer

6:57 PM

But it takes two to Tango.

1

Q: Do macros in Lisp and C "macros" share a common heritage or history?

I wonder whether substantial similarities between macros in Lisp and "text replacement" macros (in languages like C) exist or if the name is just a coincidence? Do all the different "macro approaches" share a common ancestor or did just no language designer come up with a better word for his/her...

c programming-languages macros lisp language-history

Anonymous

@PopularDemand Yeah, it's not that ridiculous.

Shog9

@PopularDemand Mine neither.

Popular Demand

Oh, rockin'. Editing now.

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