Tavern on the Meta

6:00 PM

There are thousands upon thousands of questions and answers across dozens of sites built on this system. We could never find enough moderators to do the work - it's up to the communities themselves.

@zenbike ah... sounds vaguely familiar

er, I'm thinking of a story about folks not bothering to remember stuff 'cause they know they can find it again later.

zenbike

Ok, so the basic idea is that the algorithms that search engines use, filter out unpopular data.

Shog9

Not strictly true; they rank data by popularity (sorta), which has the same result for common queries

zenbike

That is, if I get a search result about Obama being the best president ever, and I don't click on it, then the next time, it's lower in the ranking for me, personally.

Shog9

(FWIW: my test for new search engines is to try something obscure, something I know only appears on a tiny handful of pages on the 'Net, and see if they can find it)

zenbike

Wait one, not finished. And this is coming from Google...

It's the personal part that matters...

Shog9

6:04 PM

Ah, right - I know what you're talking about now

There's an additional wrinkle to that, in that Google tracks how much time you spend on one search result before coming back to try another one. This has had the end result of MSDN forum matches ranking below SO in my searches, since I so rarely find what I need on those forums.

zenbike

So I refuse to click on anything that paints Obama in a positive light, then pretty soon they stop presenting me anything that says he does good. And I'm left with the idea that he's the worst president ever.

Because there is no conflict in the data I get to see.

Shog9

Automated confirmation bias!

zenbike

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the info isn't on MSDN sites. It means you don't look for it/find it there.

If that's the term, and it sounds right.

Shog9

@zenbike I've been favoring MSDN forums for the better part of the last decade, and until recently they were my top choice... And they still sucked. Best of a bad bunch.

zenbike

You say the point here is not to clean up the data, it's to make an answer easy to find. Does it have the same effect?

Shog9

6:10 PM

@zenbike It can. It doesn't necessarily

zenbike

Google didn't have all that much to say about what yo saw on the web even 7 or 8 years ago. It's only pretty recently that they've had that data pool to start making these choices for us. At least as I understand it. Am I wrong?

It doesn't necessarily. But how can you know?

If you can't see the conflict, or the disagreement, or what have you? How do you know what you're getting from the sanitzed version is the right version?

Shog9

@zenbike It's a little more complex than that. I still see MSDN search results (although there's a way to remove them entirely), they're just not emphasized over other results (where I've had better luck getting answers in the past).

The flip side of this is how it worked a year ago: I'd search, get the top result from Experts Exchange, open it, scroll through 5 pages of nonsense and ads to get to the answers, realize the answers were "i donno... try <something random>", curse at it, and leave to try the next search result.

So now I block EE entirely - it's possible I'm missing something valuable there, but it'd be a first.

Yes, confirmation bias is a real danger

But... it's a danger regardless of what Google does - studies show I'm quite likely to just skip past search results that challenge my beliefs in some way without any external assistance.

So to bring this back to SE and editing of offensive material: the default behavior upon seeing something you think is offensive - heck, even something you simply feel isn't constructive - should be to improve it. BUT... the original author gets to override you if he so desires.

zenbike

I understand that I'm simplifying a bit. But the one site I'm heavily involved in recently, and the one I actually am qualified to be an expert on, has numerous posts with popular but inaccurate data. And worse, it's backed up by high vote counts. Because in that circle, if you throw out an answer that has eco-friendly/local/vintage/DIY attached, you get upvoted. Accurate or not. And yes, editing is necessary, but often unwelcome.

And it's getting better.

Because there are a few of us making an effort to make it accurate, even at the cost of the flame wars.

Shog9

It is an up-hill battle. I was just talking about this with another user regarding another site, where so very many users are fond of posting - and voting up - lazy / feel-good answers.

zenbike

But if we then erase all the dissent, how does someone decide if I'm right or the hipster is about the necessity of wearing a bike helmet?

Shog9

6:20 PM

Truth is, the system can only do so much; it takes a healthy core of dedicated, knowledgeable users to make a site worth reading.

@zenbike Here's where the voting system comes into play, and the importance of both a knowledgeable community and users who are able to write well enough to get their point across.

zenbike

Of course. Which is why i don't understand the repeated "The door's there, use it" attitude on this site.

And if the hipster gets upvoted 30 times, and i get downvoted, because wearing a helmet is no fun?

Shog9

@zenbike There are users - and I don't think you're one of them - who are absolutely and completely against the idea of anyone else touching their words.

zenbike

No, That's not it at all.

Shog9

That's why the blunt statements come out though - we've had users request - demand - that others be blocked from editing their posts. We cannot compromise on that.

zenbike

But if you do, it better be right, and you better talk to me about it. Or I'll hurt you however I can you. Because that's my name on that post, not yours.

Shog9

6:24 PM

@zenbike To be fair, the editor's name also appears after the edit

zenbike

Doesn't matter to me.

Shog9

It should!

Clicking that name (well, the text above it) gives readers the opportunity to see who contributed what to the post

zenbike

And I would venture to bet that few people go look at what the editor changed, and why.

Shog9

Usually, if someone needs to check the edit history, it's because something has gone wrong - the edit lost something important, or implied something inaccurate, etc.

zenbike

I get your point, but do you get mine?

Shog9

6:27 PM

@zenbike I think so - but again, the goal here, the reason for these sites to exist, is to provide a means of attaching comprehensive answers to questions directly.

Grace Note

@zenbike Your concern is that most people take the post at face assumption that the author is the full author, which means that a drastic edit from another user can be considered the work of the original author, yes?

Shog9

Whenever possible, personal pride must take a backseat to this (but, I'm being idealistic here, I know that in practice many users do feel uncomfortable)

zenbike

I have no problem with someone editing me, if I'm wrong, they can prove it, and they tell me why. But what we were talking about was not editing content for quality, but eliminating controversy or the possibility of offense.

Personal pride is why we're here.

Grace Note

Why most people are here, at least.

Shog9

I do wish to make something else clear here: I'm not terribly sympathetic to users who go around looking for things that might offend someone, regardless of what they do in response to it. I'm much more concerned when the overall tone of a post detracts from the question it is trying to ask or answer it seeks to provide.

zenbike

6:31 PM

And I get the ideal, but I will not give up my personality or my freedom to it. That's the problem. And frankly, it's not limited to these sites. I have this issue in a lot of places, where the primary concern is uniformity of thought, rather than quality of thought.

That's fair enough. But where do you draw a line between that and the other?

Shog9

@zenbike: in your example, there are ways to make a case for / against helmets without overtly insulting those who feel differently. An answer, regardless of position, will best serve the reader by avoiding the temptation to polarize readers.

So while I wouldn't edit an answer espousing one view to reflect another, I might edit it to justify one position without attacking the other - for instance, demonstrating the danger of helmet-less biking via statistics without going so far as to call helmet-less riders "stupid".

Tim Stone

@GraceNote I'm just here to waste time on chat

zenbike

Understood. But the facts are the wrong information would still be the upvoted and accepted, and bloody dangerous to the user answer.

Popular Demand

(Good news, everyone! A mere 345 days after The Tavern opened its doors, it finally contains a conversation that contributes positively to the Internet!)

Shog9

@zenbike This... Is a bigger, and rather different, problem.

zenbike

6:35 PM

Yes, and one that was dealt with.

By moderators deleting the entire post.

Grace Note

@TimStone Awesome

mootinator

@PopularDemand Oy!

zenbike

@PopularDemand: You better not be talking about me. I'll get offended :-

Tim Stone

@PopularDemand Nothing migrating the conversation to a different room later can't fix.

zenbike

:-)

Popular Demand

6:37 PM

@mod, please edit @zenbike's last comment to remove the word "offended." It makes me feel sad inside.

Tim Stone

@GraceNote Oh, and Minecraft. Can't forget Minecraft. I actually should be playing, now that I'm hosting the server.

Popular Demand

Let me pose this question to you, @zenbike: if you were in charge here tomorrow, what policy change(s) would you implement to resolve your concerns?

Grace Note

@TimStone As long as you're contributing to the decline of modern society by providing the resources for everyone else to slack with, I don't mind if you slack on your slacking.

Tim Stone

Excellent.

Grace Note

Just don't be too productive, you hear?

zenbike

6:40 PM

Really, the only thing i could think of would be to request that edits be discussed with the author. But how do you enforce it? And if you're not willing to flag for mods over things we have flags designed for specifically, like offensive content, then who would do the talking?

And since there's all but a ban on discussion anyhow, where would you do it?

Popular Demand

@zenbike I don't think you can justify the presence of a ban on discussion. Relevant discussion is welcomed in comments, if not necessarily in questions/answers.

Kyle Trauberman

Just throwing out an idea: Would a "request author approval" feature on an edit solve that? Something that's optional, but allows you to ask the author if they approve of this edit before it goes live.

Popular Demand

And to be fair, users are automatically notified of edits to their posts by anyone. I understand that that's not sufficient in your opinion, though.

zenbike

@Kyle: Yeah, maybe. Something like that would be a step in the right direction, for me.

I've not been notified of any edits, and I've certainly had them. Is that a switch to flip somewhere?

Tim Stone

@GraceNote I'll do my best to keep my productivity in check.

Shog9

6:44 PM

@KyleTrauberman We have talked about this in the past, and it is actually implemented for edits by low-rep users. The danger with implementing it across the board is that some authors never return... You end up unable to get fixes made short of deleting the whole answer and replacing it with another (which is possible, but a bit of a nuclear option)

zenbike

@Tim, I thought i was doing that for you.

Shog9

@zenbike They show up in the little drop-down by your name at top, but you kinda have to look for them (they should be in your profile somewhere too)

Kyle Trauberman

I'm not saying that it should be implemented

Shog9

They are though, to an extent.

Tim Stone

@Shog9 They're (somewhat unintuitively) in the "responses" tab.

zenbike

6:45 PM

@Shog9: He said an optional system. As in, If I want to edit, but am not sure how it would be recieved I can check the box and hope to start a convo.

I'll look. And even the notification does help.

Kyle Trauberman

Perhaps it could even be included in the "suggested edits" feature

where the author could approve it, or a quorum of other users could approve it

Shog9

@zenbike Yes. And that's not a bad idea, but it adds complexity; the alternative we have now is to simply leave a good explanation along with your edit, and accept that the author can revise or rollback if he doesn't agree with your justification.

zenbike

I just err way far on the side of don't touch my freedom of speech, i guess. And the questions on the topic, with answers like: "Yes. Censorship is OK here", really just boil my blood.

Technical complexity? As in rolling out the feature? Or social in some fashion?

Grace Note

@TimStone No, they're under "revisions", are they not?

Tim Stone

@GraceNote revisions is a filter of the responses tab

Grace Note

6:49 PM

Oh, wait, on the profile. Nevermind.

Aye, 'tis. Just I always arrive there as a shortcut.

Tim Stone

Ah, from the dropdown.

Fosco

You are not entitled to any right of free speech on the website of a private corporation.

Shog9

@zenbike Social - it takes more work to get the edit out to readers this way. This is why the suggested edit system imposes a minimum change - requiring 1 or two others to approve your work is wasteful of their time if you haven't done much.

zenbike

@Fosco, I am entitled to the right of free speech wherever I happen to be. Because a corporation is not a person, and its rights cannot supersede mine.

Fosco

You are mistaken.

Kyle Trauberman

6:52 PM

@zenbike Not in the US

In the US, a corporation is a person.

zenbike

@Fosco, @Kyle: I know what the law says. I've fought one war over it. I'll start another one if need be. Clear?

Kyle Trauberman

and has the same rights

I'm not saying agree with that (I don't), just pointing out that fact.

Fosco

Why are you so (this comment has been edited for suggestive rudeness)?

zenbike

No, it doesn't. It's a "person" only in terms of limiting the damages done to the owner or owners in the case of lawsuit.

Kyle Trauberman

I think the US Supreme Court ruled that free speech only applies to the government restricting speech. Private forums can censor and restrict speech in their own forum

Popular Demand

6:57 PM

So let's say you are notified of a suggested edit to one of your posts, @zenbike. If you agree with it, the path is pretty clear. You approve it and everyone is happy, except possibly for people who missed out on the better info in the time between the edit being suggested and ou approving it. What happens if you disagree?

Kyle Trauberman

I'm trying to find the ruling.

zenbike

@Fosco: Why am I so unwilling to give up my freedoms? First, because that wasn't a metaphor. I've been on the ground in the mud and the blood to preserve them. And second, because I currently live in a place where you don't have any, unless you are one of 5% of the population who was born in to massive wealth, and pretty much no limits on their behavior. There are laws, but they don't get enforced on local citizens. And to be a citizen, your father must be a citizen.

Fosco

No one is restricting your freedoms, however you seem bent on restricting others.

No one is forcing you to stay where you are, either, you have the freedom to leave.

zenbike

@Kyle, I said I know what the law says. And I know what right and wrong are, too.

Fosco

As I said before, you're free to contribute to the site.. we're free to edit it.

Contribute is the operative word... you're trying to help out. Ownership of your contribution is something you hand over immediately.

zenbike

7:02 PM

@Fosco: That's the third time you've told me to leave because I disagree with you.

Fosco

If someone thinks your contribution can be made better, it is no longer yours. There are avenues to dispute, rollback, etc. You refuse to accept these truths.

zenbike

I've yet to tell you to do anything, except explain to me why you believe what you believe.

Fosco

@zenbike What? I thought you were talking about where you live, physically.

zenbike

@Fosco: I can take the money out of your bank account. Does that make it mine>?

user157982

You can take money out of Fosco's bank account? O_o

Fosco

7:03 PM

@zenbike Silly and unrelated analogy time?

Shog9

Fosco has money in his bank account?

zenbike

@ Fosco: I don't understand what the comment about where I live is referring to?

user157982

Can I have some of it? Please?

user159834

For the record, is this really an issue or is it all theoretical? Has this actually happened recently, some disputable censorship?

Fosco

> "And second, because I currently live in a place where you don't have any, unless you are one of 5% of the population who was born in to massive wealth, and pretty much no limits on their behavior. There are laws, but they don't get enforced on local citizens. And to be a citizen, your father must be a citizen."

zenbike

7:04 PM

Just because you can take posession, doesn't make it yours.

Fosco

@WesleyMurch theoretical... follow the transcripts back a few hours. (yes, hours)

zenbike

Yeah, where I live, in the UAE

Fosco

@zenbike I merely stated the obvious... you may leave the UAE, so I am not caring about the laws of the UAE.

zenbike

@Fosco: Nobody's forcing you to be here. I've heard that somewhere before?

Popular Demand

@Shog9 Not anymore, apparently.

Fosco

7:06 PM

I like it here, and you don't hear me complaining.

zenbike

Pretty sure I did. About me being here, mostly.

Fosco

Seriously, after 4 hours of this, aren't you f**king tired of saying the same crap?

user157982

I tried following the transcripts, it seemed to get murky and then freedom of speech came up and I'm actually not sure anymore.

zenbike

No.

Are you?

user157982

So let me see if I can try to get this: you're debating the merit of editing out offensive content if it's not obviously offensive?

Fosco

7:08 PM

Well... I'm getting paid during these hours.....

zenbike

I didn't come in here to talk to you. I came in to talk to Shog9, at his request.

user157982

@zenbike Well, you should welcome the chance to involve more people in discussing the topic.

zenbike

Not obvious. Subjective. As in you think it is, and I think it's not. So you change what I wrote. Because t disagrees with your politics/religion/whatever.

Grace Note

@nil Oh, good. I've been watching this for the past half hour and I'm in the same bucket. Let's be bucket pals.

user159834

The root of the whole conversation is pretty twisted, it was about a guy who insisted that saying "Thanks in advance" is "extremely rude/offensive language".

user157982

7:10 PM

Awesome, I enjoy buckets

Shog9

@WesleyMurch whaaaat?

zenbike

Actually that was an unrelated post, i think.

user157982

Wait, what?

zenbike

I'm not sure any more...

user159834

It was very related.

zenbike

7:10 PM

Certainly didn't come from me.

Grace Note

@zenbike That was the root of it all.

Shog9

And now I have "2 pals 1 bucket" in my head thanks to @Grace, which just isn't right

user159834

ALthough OP tried to take it out of context, that it what it was really about.

user159834

Or at least how it started.

Tim Stone

My eyes have glazed over now. This will make programming difficult.

user157982

7:11 PM

@Shog9 That says more about your mind than anything else

Grace Note

@zenbike 'twas what your answer about flaggin' came aboot to, afirst.

zenbike

Because that was the question that the guy who wrote the question we're talking about referenced?

Shog9

@nil Admitting it says more than I care to think about

Grace Note

@zenbike Quite, it was.

zenbike

Ah.

Stupid, isn't it.

Grace Note

7:12 PM

But only as an example. Again, it was the root of it all.

zenbike

Whatever. I don't get the mentality, and I'm not likely to. Where are you all at?

Grace Note

@Shog9 A meme that I have the pleasure of never experiencing anything more than the terrified reactions of those who are exposed.

Fosco

@GraceNote Same here :) Never saw, never will.

Shog9

@GraceNote That is the best way to experience it.

Grace Note

@zenbike Where am I at? I'm not sure the context of the question, so I'm assuming the sites - I'm here because I like the place. It's a fun place when you know everyone. A very unique place that exposes you to a lot of wonky cultures.

user157982

7:14 PM

It is also one of the purest forms of enjoyment: the terror of others as they witness a new low in human 'entertainment.'

zenbike

No, i meant cities. Sorry itt's late, and I'm getting less coherent by the moment.

Fosco

chortle

Grace Note

Oh. Just a quiet country town. I live on a golf course, though, so I think there's all sorts of implications from that alone.

Tim Stone

Huh, I do too.

Grace Note

@TimStone If you live at the Ranch, that would be... actually it'd be awesome and we could meet each other and be friends and all that cool stuff.

user157982

7:16 PM

I live in the middle of nowhere in Idaho, and I try every day not to complain about it to my pets.

Grace Note

If you don't, then your golf course is a LOSER course.

zenbike

INteresting. Me too. Golf course, not Idaho. Mine's got alot of sand around it. And has to be watered a ridiculous amount daily to survive.

Tim Stone

@GraceNote Alas, I am a few states south.

Grace Note

@TimStone Hrmph!

At least your blue highlights still win my friendship.

Tim Stone

I had to compensate somehow

Shog9

7:18 PM

I do not live on a golf course. But it is hot and dry here, although probably not as bad as UAE

Grace Note

@Shog9 You have birds, though. As do I.

Which reminds me, how do you deal with nesting birds and their... dirtywork, so to speak, on your house?

user157982

I have pet birds. :D

Grace Note

I mean, is it inevitable? Or can you set up stuff to make it easier to clean up?

Fosco

I live on a motherboard, and the heatsink is killing me.

Shog9

@GraceNote A garden hose does a decent job

mmyers

7:19 PM

So... um... at some point in the not-to-distant past, there was actually a productive discussion here. Wasn't there?

zenbike

Worse. Hot and Humid. My golf course is on the Arabian Gulf.

Nope.

Grace Note

@Shog9 We've got a POWER WASHER

Shog9

A .22 or even pellet gun works even better, but I don't have one

Tim Stone

@mmyers You speak heresy.

Fosco

@mmyers I think that is subjective. lol.

zenbike

7:20 PM

No productivity allowed.

Shog9

@GraceNote That... can be overkill.

Grace Note

They have little ones, so artillery is not really an option.

Shog9

(ah, fond memorize of stripping paint off cars with a powerwasher...)

Fosco

Are they angry birds, and do you have a slingshot?

mmyers

@TimStone Well, then, no one gets banned. Carry on, but don't try it again.

Popular Demand

7:21 PM

@mmyers Yes, between Shog and zenbike. But then I and others tried to get involved, and it went off the rails.

Grace Note

Also I think some of them fell out of the nest. It kinda ruined my mother and I for 3 days of mopeyness.

Shog9

See, 'round here it's mostly pigeons & turtle doves. And some weird pigeon-turtledove cross.

Grace Note

This is a little birdy that has a red throat.

user157982

Robins? Wait, no, that's orange breasted..

Grace Note

Black or brownish head. Small nest. One daddy and one mommy. The little ones are pinkish.

Fosco

7:22 PM

It all started here: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/676711#676711

Shog9

Hey. Just a reminder:

15

Birds in the Wild

Proposed Q&A site for bird watchers, bird fans, and bird brains. People who are fascinated by birds and want to know more about them.

Currently in definition.

Oh, good, oneboxing works for A51 now. THANK YOU @MARC

Michael Mrozek

Hasn't that worked pretty much forever?

Shog9

No

Grace Note

It's been functional for months

mmyers

points and laughs

Shog9

7:24 PM

Then it's been months since I've last wanted to link to A51...

Michael Mrozek

Nov 11 '10 at 9:51, by Marc Gravell

95

: Gardening and Landscaping

Proposed Q&A site for gardeners and landscapers of every kind. From those just looking to care for their lawn, to those who want to grow fruits and vegetables. This site is for any kind of gardener and/or landscaper. (Vote in comments about scope change.)

Shog9

(Wow, that's kinda sad. GO FOLLOW BIRDS, YOU HEATHENS)

Michael Mrozek

The only things I know about birds are: 1) they can fly, 2) Shog9 likes them

Grace Note

I just figured it was November, too.

user157982

I only know things about domesticated birds, so cannot participate with zee wild birdies discussion.

Shog9

7:26 PM

That jibes with... something that happened to me last fall and would have totally derailed my attention to chat. But sheesh, i would have thought I'd have noticed 'fore now.

Greg

thanks in advance for banning me

user157982

Does that qualify as irony?

Grace Note

@Shog9 I know a particular bird lover who is a very close friend of mine, but he's not really a QA type

Greg

its funny everyone agrees with me about pointing out rudeness in the general sense, but then in the specific sense people get angry....unbeleivable

user157982

How is there a difference in "sense" between generally and specifically pointing out rudeness?

Grace Note

7:32 PM

@Greg Eh, I mean, I wouldn't have gone around and put comments everywhere myself, but I didn't think you were off your rocker for finding it offensive.

Shog9

FWIW, @Greg - when you're tired of seeing rudeness over and over again, you're tired of The Internet.

Greg

See this meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/98674/… and this meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/98149/…

Grace Note

@nil People seem to agree that rudeness in general is not acceptable, but not that many felt that what Greg thought was rude was, so in that specific sense they got angry.

Greg

I'm bummed out now, I would've just reverted to editing the posts or whatever if my comments were so offensive somehow

Its ironic that saying something is offensive is MORE offensive than the original language lol

mmyers

I don't think it's really offensive. More just thoughtless.

user157982

7:34 PM

When someone doesn't think they're rude and you tell them otherwise, they tend to get defensive

Shog9

@Greg I'm offended by your ironic observation.

mmyers

The "Thanks in advance", I mean.

Greg

The best analogy I give is if you're SO were to say, can you go do the dishes I'm just going to watch TV, thanks in advance

*your

mmyers

@Greg Assume good faith.

user157982

You just lost me, and that is highly offensive to me

Greg

7:36 PM

Or if your boss came up to you and said "I need you to work Saturday, thanks in advance." and walked away

without giving you a chance to agree in the first place

Grace Note

I think it's a bit funny because this point is mostly moot because people shouldn't be saying "Thanks in advance" regardless of whether it is interpretted as rude or not.

mmyers

You don't have to answer if someone says "Thanks in advance" on SO. Plenty of other people answer such questions; nobody will mind if you take a pass.

2

Fosco

I love freedom.

Greg

The irony is the language should be removed, unless you say its due to rudeness, then there's a huge flame war.

user157982

I don't know why you'd ignore a question just over the 'thanks in advance,' but that's your call. Kind of like how I ignore questions that explicitly ask for sample code.

Greg

7:39 PM

People complain about censorship so they censor me from saying I don't like that phrase lol

No one sees the irony here

Grace Note

@Greg I don't really think anyone approves of the flame war, in either direction. I certainly didn't think it was appropriate.

mmyers

@GraceNote The proper response to "Thanks in advance" is "You're preemptively welcome, supposing you'll still be grateful at this point." -- alt.usage.English

Shog9

@Greg The problem is, we've discussed this on Meta for... a long time now... And some folks feel really strongly both ways. The consensus is, edit out if you're editing, but don't worry about it otherwise - going in and leaving comments upsets this careful balance.

Stack Overflow Blog: In Defense of Editing

Posted by Jeff Atwood on April 7th, 2009

Editing is the backbone of Stack Overflow, and probably (along with the reputation system) one of the single most important distinctions between Stack Overflow and “just another forum”.

What’s so special about editing? You might as well ask what’s so special about editing on Wikipedia? Uh… everything?

As it says in the FAQ:

Like Wikipedia, this site is collaboratively edited. If you are not comfortable with the idea of your questions and answers being edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you. …

(oh good grief, how did I go this long without linking to that?)

Grace Note

@mmyers I noted that.

@Shog9 Someone might've spiked your morning drink with moron juice.

Shog9

@GraceNote I knew the coffee tasted funny. But... Coffee's coffee.

Greg

7:41 PM

Fair enough, but what you're saying and the reality I'm facing are different stories

Grace Note

@Greg If you're referring to being harrassed, then it might be wise to make a case about it.

...on Meta, since apparently I'm missing that crucial pair of words.

user157982

I recently got harassed-ish via someone's revenge downvoting. It made me feel special.

Greg

It's fine, not worth it anymore I guess

No need to try and argue my right to help provide content so Jeff Atwood can make another million of users answers lol

Fosco

It's a privilege! ;)

Grace Note

@Greg You have the right to argue against a ban, y'know. It's full within your right to do so.

Greg

7:46 PM

@Fosco LOL

@Grace what is the forum for that

Grace Note

I don't know how long your sentence is, but if the only listed offense is "Posted comments saying that 'thanks in advance' is rude", then I can't see why you'd need to be ousted for a long time.

@Greg When you first got suspended, you should've gotten a message on Stack Overflow with an explanation of why you got suspended. It should contain the option to reply.

If you can prove that you're a reasonable person and that you didn't have any harmful intent, you should be able to relax the sentence, I would think.

Michael Mrozek

(it's 2 weeks)

Greg

Fair enough

Grace Note

@MichaelMrozek That seems beyond overkill.

I mean, isn't 24 hours our standard for first-offense-not-even-warned-yet?

Michael Mrozek

I think SO tends to start a bit higher, but I'm not sure

Grace Note

7:51 PM

Even so, you start higher if it's a really bad thing that's being done. Not asserting that "Thanks in advance", which among other things should be removed anyway, is rude a few dozen times.

mmyers

That... actually isn't why he's suspended, but obviously can't share details.

Grace Note

@mmyers I'm not going to inquire on the details, it's not my business. Hence why I'm directing to the proper forum of communication.

Moshe

@Fosco - A new alpha is building... :-D

mmyers

@GraceNote OK, but you're still speculating in public. Bad moderator, bad!

Greg

If I delete my account does all the content disappear

Grace Note

7:52 PM

@mmyers I haven't technically speculated. Postulated circumstances, one might say.

@Greg No, it stays but can be anonymized from your name.

Greg

And how can I do this

Popular Demand

@Greg There's an MSO post; I'll find it.

Grace Note

@Greg Flag a post of yours with a message requesting deletion, and change either your user name or your About Me to say "please delete me".

Greg

Flag my own post?

Popular Demand

25

Q: Can I delete my account?

How can I delete my Stack Exchange account(s)? Return to FAQ index

Greg

7:54 PM

Thx

Grace Note

@Greg Any old post will do.

Greg

Enjoy your afternoon everyone :O

Grace Note

Enjoi, Greg. ♪

Popular Demand

10

A: How do I delete my account and associated posts on Stack Overflow?

You can't delete all of your questions and answers. You've granted us the irrevocable right to display your content on this website. That's the license you agreed to when you joined Stack Overflow. You can, however, delete your account, causing your contributions to be anonymized. See here for d...

mmyers

Apparently, to get any help around here, one has to announce his intentions to leave. Then everybody will fall over themselves to show him how.

Grace Note

7:56 PM

I haven't one-up'd Popular Demand for too long.

mootinator

Bat-zinga.

Tim Stone

@GraceNote I was going to beat him to the punch on the faq question, but I decided to let him have that one.

Popular Demand

I actually never found the post I was looking for. It was like my second onebox, but as a question instead of an answer.

Grace Note

@TimStone I can't believe you'd let him go on that one.

Tim Stone

You'd be more disappointed if I told you what I did instead.

Grace Note

7:58 PM

I can't imagine not having a mind entirely devoted to trouncing Pop, since I have no room in my mind for imagining, because it's all taking up by plans to trounce Pop!

Popular Demand

You have been rather unsuperior lately, @Grace.

user159834

Not to dredge the subject again, but I am glad to here that the ban was unrelated to the comments. I had flagged one of the posts where things blew up and specifically requested additional moderator attention (but didn't specifically say what I imagined should happen), the reason being that it (Greg's comments) was consistently provoking argument.

user159834

In fact, causing other users to act childishly.

user159834

I felt guilty afterwards, but still think it's ridiculous.

Tim Stone

Well, I don't believe that a comment can force anyone else to act stupid, but I can imagine what you mean.

Popular Demand

8:01 PM

That makes me worried about your priority-setting algorithm, though, @Grace. I thought trouncing me was something you did with spare processor cycles. I'm not worth your pure, undivided attention.

user159834

The point being that Greg's actions alone weren't terrible or anything, but it was certainly causing a lot of disruption.

Tim Stone

nods

@PopularDemand Moderation duties on Gaming must be slow.

user159834

And I try to keep opinions where they belong, but the notion of "thanks" being extremely rude offensive language just doesn't settle with me.

user159834

OK, just wanted to get it off my chest, I'm done. Dead issue.

user159834

If anyone here likes exotic birds I have a rainbow lory that needs a home.

mmyers

8:04 PM

No thanks, I just finished lunch.

Grace Note

@PopularDemand I have a separate system for figuring out priorities. I haven't quite figured out how it decides it. Or when it decides it should run.

user157982

Coin toss?

Grace Note

@nil A recurring thing among my choices but I usually use a two-headed coin.

user157982

A wise decision

user159834

Have a good weekend everyone... Cya

Fosco

8:10 PM

Cya

Moshe

@fosco as @jcolebrand often points out, I am not aware that you received an email from test flight about build double oh eight including NPCs.

jcolebrand

@Moshe does that mean you still send people emails?

Fosco

I did just get an email that a new testflight was available.

Moshe

@jcolebrand No, test flight still does. And no, Google+ will not be replacing my email. Nor my blog for that matter.

jcolebrand

@Moshe not questions I asked. But interesting that you answered them anyways. Quit being so paranoid.

I only asked if you were still emailing people to tell them that you had just released a new testflighted app, when moments prior we already received an app notification from testflight.

Moshe

8:24 PM

>>> Quit being Paranoid? [Y/n] Y

@jcolebrand, oh, no. I let test flight do it.

jcolebrand

I have been listening to a fair number of people lament blogging in re: G+, and I don't see the problem there. There exists a use case for blogs, twitter, facebook and G+

Fosco

I can see G+ being used as a blog platform.. I personally want to use it to make big posts, more than I want my own 'blog' site, for sure.

jcolebrand

100 IPs for every atom on the earth ought to be enough for anybody #pleasequoteme

Tweeted by rickasaurus on July 15, 2011 at 8:24 PM

@Fosco I think of blogs as being semi canonical, g+ for long but transient posts, Facebook for connecting "to the masses" (750 million users, hello!) and twitter for the inconsequentials.

Shog9

@jcolebrand I remain unconvinced.

jcolebrand

I also love that nobody has figured that G+ looks a lot like Orkut did

@Shog9 fair enough.

Shog9

8:28 PM

Who used Orkut?

jcolebrand

I have/had an account there

I haven't looked to see if it still exists

Shog9

W00t! You are the first person I've met with an Orkut account who isn't Indian or Brazilian.

Fosco

hasta la vista, stackies!

Moshe

Ok folks, feel free to pick at the latest alpha, I'm out.

Shog9

(and I know maybe two of the former and one of the latter with accounts, so even then...)

Moshe

8:31 PM

Tschüß

Tim Stone

I'm not sure I want the technology partner that operates out of a dilapidated building.

mootinator

Hundreds of instances of the same bug written into my app. Some of them even my fault :P Uh-oh.

Shog9

@TimStone How about one that operates from out front of one?

Tim Stone

I'm still a bit iffy.

user157982

What if he's riding on a unicorn and you just can't see it?

mootinator

8:39 PM

@TimStone You have a problem with my home office?

Tim Stone

I thought you got your satellite cable fixed? That makes everything OK.

mootinator

That hasn't stopped the paint from peeling off the exterior.

Tim Stone

-1 to the paint then.

mootinator

When the old owners sold me this place they advertised they painted it within the last year.

What they failed to mention was that they didn't use primer.

Shog9

Painting over peeling paint is a time-honored tradition

user157982

8:42 PM

Hey, that just means you get to have the fun of painting whatever you want

user157982

Like a giant unicorn mural

mootinator

lol

Shog9

I've lived in places where you could strip the paint off a wall just by grabbing one edge and pulling

(we... used a lot of spray-paint while moving out)

user157982

I had something like that back when I lived in a dormitory

user157982

It was hard to resist the temptation of just picking away at the wall

mootinator

8:44 PM

Question: Your client sends you a specification with what looks like a typo in it. Do you: a. Implement the typo. b. Fix the typo.

Tim Stone

How much does it look like a typo?

mootinator

The file should be named "Ticketsw_yymmdd_2000"

The w looks like she just slipped off of s.

Of course, if I wanted to be a bastard I could interpret mm as the minute.

Tim Stone

:D

I'd imagine it was a typo too, from my completely context-free view.

jcolebrand

I would assume the w was correct. I would also c) Email the owner about the "w" concern. Ergo I would a) and c)

robotpig.net/extras/cyprus_zygi <-- wow. Technology is interesting

Tim Stone

Hmm, what was I doing..

mootinator

8:55 PM

Back to testing my magical factory method.

jcolebrand

ciudadjuarez.usconsulate.gov/15jul2011emergency.html

Emergency Message for U.S. Citizens
Threats of violence against U.S. government interests in Chihuahua
The U.S. Consulate General in Ciudad Juarez is issuing this Emergency Message for U.S. citizens in the state of Chihuahua (“Emergency Messages” were formerly known as “Warden Messages”).  The Consulate has distributed the following message to our staff:
Mexican authorities have captured key members of the cartels active in Juarez. These successes also bring with them the potential for an increase in violence. The cartels may seek to retaliate and increase their attacks against rival cartel…

user157982

10:00 PM

You can't really remain vigilant against car bombs..

jcolebrand

10:24 PM

DESTROY ALL THE CARS!