Tavern on the Meta

rchern

00:01

I've given up attempting to answer his questions. Chances are he'll answer it within 10 minutes if not 2. (;

Popular Demand

@Shog9 I believe "chevron" implies orientation as well as the pointy shape.

Shog9

hmm?

Popular Demand

Wikipedia disambiguates them to guillemets, though.

Grace Note

That doesn't sound like good crazy

Shog9

@PopularDemand ah

Guillemets

Guillemets (, or after French ), also called angle quotes, are line segments, pointed as if arrows (« or »), sometimes forming a complementary set of punctuation marks used as a form of quotation mark. The symbol at either end – double « and » or single ‹ and › – is a guillemet. They are used in a number of languages to indicate speech. They are also used as symbols for rewind and fast forward and in some programming languages. A common colloquialism for guillements is "carrots". Etymology The word is a diminutive of the French name Guillaume (the equivalent of which in En...

^^^ now, why didn't the image come through on that?

The Unhandled Exception

00:07

@Shog9 The onebox? It did for me...

Popular Demand

Is there nothing you will leave un-oneboxed?

Shog9

refreshing...

Popular Demand

My guess is because it's somehow located in a generic table of contents.

Shog9

no image

The Unhandled Exception

I have been meaning to review source and figure out how oneboxing works :-)

Popular Demand

00:07

@TheUnhandledException, no, Shog meant the picture of guillemets.

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand Oh, I see no picture either

Michael Mrozek

It's not actually a picture, it's actual guillemets in a very large font size

Popular Demand

Winner!

Shog9

Ah! So it is...

rchern

00:23

:o wth. i'm putting in twitter.com and i'm ending up at myspace.com

how...fun?

well, it says twitter.com, but the page itself is myspace

Joe Phillips

myspace still exists?

rchern

that was my 2nd thought, hehe

Shog9

@JoePhillips of course. You can't kill Satan. He just keeps coming back in new forms.

rchern

can someone ping twitter and give me an ip?

(putting in the ip i get from a ping leads me to myspace)

Michael Mrozek

128.242.240.244

Shog9

00:28

I get 128.242.245.148

Michael Mrozek

Mine is better

Shog9

indeed. All even digits (well, apart from that pesky leading 1)

rchern

what does 128.242.240.116 give you?

Michael Mrozek

Twitter

Shog9

twitter

rchern

00:29

both your ips get me to twitter and ^^ is what i got from ping

strange.

Shog9

huh. Both IPs point to NTT America, so maybe they just hate you.

rchern

i'm so lucky

Shog9

Trying for Twitter and getting MySpace: selecting Almond Joy but the vending machine gives you Mounds.

The Unhandled Exception

00:53

Damn, finally done. 3 times longer than that should have taken!

Time for some food and to take the rest of the night off

I'll catch you guys later!

Shog9

so long...

Jon Galloway

Wondering if this works in IE9 Beta

Yay, it totally does.

Okay, that's all. Bye!

David in Dakota

01:35

Anyone out there using MVVM and Silverlight?

Michael Mrozek

02:39

What is with this question? stackoverflow.com/questions/2670117

Shog9

must have some serious google guice

also, wtf are "christian shoes"?

Michael Mrozek

Apparently something nobody can ignore the existence of, if my sources are correct

Michael Mrozek

03:15

SO spam flags have been reaching new heights the last week or so

Apparently the flags list has pages; I wasn't even aware of that until now

Shog9

03:34

i blew all mine on user424257 yesterday; thanks for the reminder, I'll go blow more...

well, that was fast.

alex

hello

Shog9

HOW DO YOU DO?

alex

well thank you shog9

Shog9

'evenin', alex

alex

how are you doing today -

Shog9

03:44

distracted

Keep settling in to reproduce a bug, only to get dragged away by something

and then, when I return, I've forgotten what i was doing...

This has happened about a dozen times now, so I'm taking a break to drink for a while & see if that improves matters.

alex

Ah, yes. Reproducing bugs can be boring.

Web app ?

Shog9

naw, some byzantine set of labor estimation rules

alex

joy

Its 2pm Fri here, so I'm just taking it easy

Shog9

it's not my bug, and probably not anything I can even fix... and knowing that up-front doesn't exactly improve my motivation

It's pushing 10PM Thur here, but I intend to be busy elsewhere tomorrow so...

alex

Ah late night debugging.

I unfortunately don't work alongside any other programmers so all bugs are mine

Shog9

03:49

my favorite time to do it... If i get stuck, chances are i'll somehow figure it out during the night

alex

well good luck

Shog9

thnx

random reading: everything2.com/title/Kit+Kat+Konspiracy

alex

Do you use Twitter Shog ?

looks like an interesting read!

Shog9

@alex nope.

alex

theres a lot of links in that article

just wonderin'

Shog9

03:53

ever used E2 before?

sort of a "proto-wiki"

linking is strongly encouraged

Michael Mrozek

@Shog9 This level of linking is specifically discouraged on Wikipedia though, because it makes the document look ridiculous

Shog9

the links way down at the bottom are auto-generated based on where folks navigate to after reading the page

alex

Nope

Ah, I'll have to buy some kit kats next time I'm overseas - or perhaps the Aussie ones are different to the US ones

Shog9

@MichaelMrozek depends on the stylesheet. Wikipedia has the much bigger problem of including (an often huge amount of) meta-data inline with the text.

Michael Mrozek

I suspect this is all a ploy by Nestle to make me buy more kit kats

Shog9

03:57

@alex you're australian? pretty sure you get the nestle ones then. You also get a wide variety of Cadbury chocolates, of which I am rather jealous

Michael Mrozek

I've yet to ever eat a Cadbury Creme Egg; based on the addictions others I know have, it's probably better that I not try one

Shog9

my sister brought a bunch of stuff last time she was home... timtams, of course, but also these funky bars of chocolate drizzles

(not sure how to describe that; as though someone had managed to make shredded wheat, but out of chocolate)

@MichaelMrozek they're ok. I used to make & pack similar but inferior confections. But cadbury has much better products, that for some reason just don't show up often in the US

Of course, if you're going for Easter candy, you really can't beat Peeps

AGED TO PERFECTION AND TOASTED OVER AN OPEN FLAME!

Michael Mrozek

Peeps I have eaten, in alarming quantities

alex

@shog9 Yep australian

Tim tams are pretty good - but I'm jealous of your pop tarts. I can buy them at a specialty store 2 1/2 hours drive away, for $4 for 2 :S

Shog9

wow

I pretty much lived on PopTarts while I was in school

pop tarts, stale pretzels, even more stale hard rolls, gummy bears, and massive, massive amounts of chocolate

kinda ruined my appreciation for them, to be honest

didn't help that I never had access to a toaster

alex

04:07

haha I'm trying to ween off the junk food

Shog9

They're actually pretty easy to make, if you're so inclined (and if you're paying $2/ea, cost-effective as well)

alex

I was about 1/2 the size I am now when I was labouring (I've had a strange road to programming...)

Shog9

i know how that goes

alex

food or road?

Shog9

went from factory to office, gained about 60 lbs in a summer

that was going from a steady diet of junk food to real meals - didn't quite know how to handle it

alex

04:09

ah yeah. I've joined and quit a gym twice. I kinda suck at that

Shog9

i just started doing my own cooking. much easier to stay balanced if you just eat what you're actually hungry for, vs. what's convenient

alex

I've got access to my own kitchen again in 2weeks so I think I will too

and living with my gf for the first time - hopefully a perk will be healthy dinners (she loves to cook)

Shog9

excellent!

alex

so tell me, I'm new to this chat - is this the official SO chat or only the meta?

George Marian

04:55

Mmmm...finally, some scotch!

Michael Mrozek

@alex Just meta. They've rolled out SF and SU now, but they're waiting on SO since it's such a large user base

Benjol

05:33

morning/evening all

George Marian

@Benjol evenin'

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian, all moved and cosy now? (with scotch, I see :)

George Marian

Yes, sir. That is the way to warm a house. :)

And, with a fine cigar, of course.

Benjol

Eric Lippert is playing with my mind again...

Is is as or is as is?

George Marian

@Benjol huh?

Benjol

05:46

@GeorgeMarian I only ever tried a cigar once, yeurrch

@GeorgeMarian that was my reaction too

George Marian

@Benjol Do you remember what it was?

Benjol

not really. Something cuban :)

George Marian

Well, that's a shame, though not all Cubans are necessarily good cigars.

That said, cigars are not for everyone. :)

It was a good Cuban cigar that got me interested in cigars. A friend suggest I quit smoking cigarettes, in favor of cigars, about 10 years ago. However, at the time I had only smoked crappy cigars.

Then a another friend of mine let me smoke one of his well preserved Cuban Cohibas. Mmm...mmm...mmm. That was so tasty, it lit my fire. ;)

Benjol

@GeorgeMarian, yeah, well I don't smoke at all, so maybe it was expecting too much.

George Marian

They're an acquired tasted, for sure.

@GeorgeMarian I must say, that Graycliff Blue Label pairs well with The Glenlivet 12 year old.

Benjol

06:02

currently timing out SEDE with a request for posts with

   body like '%thank%' or
   body like '%thx%' or
   body like 'Hi%' or
   body like 'Hello%'

Michael Mrozek

It's incredible how often I check this room to find George is talking with someone about cigars

George Marian

@MichaelMrozek :D

Shog9

yeah, wildcard body searches really don't work on SEDE

need full-text index

Benjol

@Shog9, my sql is too rusty for that :)

George Marian

I will likely put in a proposal for a cigar SE soon. I think I'm well suited for it. :)

Shog9

06:04

@Benjol well, unless you want to set up your own server, you're stuck anyway.

George Marian

On a related note, I find it odd that I recently fulfilled my commitment for programmers.se, but I have yet to do so for money.se.

Benjol

@Shog9, oh, ok, I thought you meant it was full text indexed (closes msdn tab)

Shog9

I think waffles mentioned something about FT and azure not playing nice or something; that or he just hasn't gotten around to turning it on

George Marian

06:19

"Comfortably numb" would be a good way to describe my current condition. A good thing, after working my tail off helping a friend power-wash moss of their roof yesterday. Talk about a PITA!

Benjol

odata.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/s/524/…

Apparently, there are lots of them :)

badp

08:48

In other news

Lawsuit targets advertiser over sneaky HTML5 pseudo-cookies

> A New York-based mobile-web advertising company was hit Wednesday with a proposed class action lawsuit over its use of an HTML5 trick to track iPhone and iPad users across a number of websites, in what is believed to be the first privacy lawsuit of its kind in the mobile space.

Benjol

09:00

I don't get how it can reappear with the same id even after deleting the database

Marc Gravell

guessed from IP?

Benjol

Yeah, that's the only thing I could come up with, but it's a bit dodgy - though I guess if you're just on mobiles - do they have guaranteed fixed ips?

badp

FLASH COOKIES!!

Benjol

BBC RSS feed says "Prince graduates as RAF pilot", I read the wrong prince ;) bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-11332006

badp

@Benjol I read "Price"

Robin Day

09:31

Well, good morning stack overflow.

Lasse V. Karlsen

10:04

That's easy for you to say

Greg Hewgill

good evening

badp

Mornin'

Lasse V. Karlsen

Any of you tried the Logitech G35 (Wired) or G930 (Wireless) surround headsets?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3733172/which-is-better-fff-or-fff-closed

I wanted to say that "The #FFF is whiter than the #fff one" :P

Benjol

10:23

I almost think that one deserved to stay open for comic value :)

badp

> i prefer #fff as you don't have to press the shift key for the last three chars

WINNER! :D

Lasse V. Karlsen

But of course, you already have the shift key down

badp

I for one have to press alt-gr, not shift, to type a # :)

Lasse V. Karlsen

ah

badp

Did I mention the Italian keyboard layout is horrible for dev work?

Benjol

10:25

@badp, change keyboard :)

Lasse V. Karlsen

I seem to remember something to that effect, yes :)

Benjol

you don't really need the accents in italian anyway :)

badp

@Benjol I really wish there were dead keys for that

Lasse V. Karlsen

The Norwegian keyboard is very good, some addins default to weird things that are just impossible to get to though, but easily fixed

Benjol

@badp, no, I didn't mean fiddle the existing keyboard, I meant choose another keyboard layout

badp

10:27

then all Italian would need is ̀ and é

Benjol

UK shouldn't be that different...

badp

The UK layout is completely different

Benjol

all the letters are in the same place :)

badp

Well, fair enough. The Italian layout is completely different

@Benjol Letters are the least problematic bit :)

Benjol

numbers too, and shift, ctrl, capslock ;)

badp

10:29

Benjol

That's not toooo bad, the {[]} are in the same place on UK keyboard, just you don't need altgr. It's the ; which would be the hardest to get used to.

badp

Notice the lack of ~ and ` also :)

Benjol

and if you're webby, the <>... but they're SO much better as two keys :)

that's a US keyboard, not UK, btw

badp

Spot the differences!

Benjol

@#~ for starters :)

badp

10:33

There's still the horrible thing where () are shifted one character to the left >.<

Marc Gravell

Seems to work on WP 7:)

badp

Wordpress 7?

Marc Gravell

Too wide, though.

badp

Then again, it could be worse.

uh, actually now that I look at it it's just the US layout with additional madness

Benjol

[confession, I've got EN-UK for english/coding, FR-FR for french, FR-CH for visiting hunt&peckers.]

Lasse V. Karlsen

10:47

1

Q: Do not see MessageBox

Why do I not see the MessageBoxwith exception details when I run my program by executing exe fine in bin debug folder? I do see the exception when I debug (run) the program from Visual Studio. Please assume that the exception is being thrown 100% of the time the program runs. [STAThread] stati...

"There were unhandeled exceptions." [Yes] [No]

I think it's a blessing in disguise that he doesn't see that messagebox.

Andy E's head

11:42

Anyone here?

Benjol

yes, just about

:)

lurking waiting for someone to say something interesting. Though I suspect a few have fallen asleep over their beers...

Andy E's head

lol

Just popped in with the IE 9 beta to see if it was stable enough to use

It seems OK, except when I first enter a room my CPU spikes. Once it calms down, though, it's fine.

Benjol

I tried with FF1.5 the other day :)

Andy E's head

lol how'd that go?

Benjol

script timeout with the old pc I was on

but it wasn't just the pc, chrome worked ok

Andy E's head

11:54

yeah

I don't think many web developers worry about 1.5 these days

2, maybe.

Benjol

seems more and more folks here are on chrome, I'll have to start looking at which of my extensions I really need, and if they exist on chrome

Andy E's head

Yeah Chrome is my main browser. It's fast, simple. I've never been a big Firefox fan tbh.

Benjol

When ffx came along, I was doing 100% web stuff, the Dom inspector made life a lot easier...

Andy E's head

yeah definitely

badp

@AndyEshead You mean now you can enter at all?

When I tried on day 1, it was stuck on "Just a second..." :)

Andy E's head

12:04

@badp yeah I can enter

I'm still here, ain't I? ;-)

badp

@AndyEshead You could be cheating!!

You and your impossibly good speech recognition engine

Andy E's head

lol

Marc Gravell

@AndyEshead I've been trying the RTM WP7 dev tools; yeuch - IE7 derivatives, how much I don't love thee

but it works (now that we've made more space for the menu buttons)

Andy E's head

lol @marc. I thought everything in WP7 was based on Silverlight?

Haven't had much time to look into it tbh, although I'd like to

badp

oh, I thought you were talking about a new version of some windows presentation foundation thingy

Marc Gravell

12:09

but even that isn't Silverlight as you know it - it is the super-sub-set of the silverlight libraries inside a modified CF CLR (not the SL CLR)

badp

← fail

Andy E's head

I guessed that WP7 would have some version of CF, even argued with someone about it lol

@marc Does that mean WM apps can be ported fairly easily?

Marc Gravell

I wouldn't have thought so, no

not in the least

Andy E's head

shame

Marc Gravell

I'm not an expert on mobile, note. So don't quote me on that.

Andy E's head

12:12

that makes two of us

Marc Gravell

But my understanding is that it is pretty much only WM in terms of brand.

Andy E's head

@marc: I hope so, WM needed a rewrite. Although I really liked those leaked screenshots of "WM7" from back in the day

those ones :-)

badp

Poor placement of the battery and network meters

They seem to be kind of power meters for the softkey actions

Andy E's head

@badp: yeah. I meant the style in general :-)

badp

"My sync up is level 7!"

wait, mind highlighting me again?

I see you do, oh well

Andy E's head

12:17

@badp: not sure what you mean :-p

badp

IE9 is still going to be a pain for the web :)

HoLyVieR' UNION DO EVIL SQL--

at least we can say Microsoft is constant :p

Marc Gravell

nice edges, there ;p

Andy E's head

@marc: is that because your CSS written with vendor-specific prefixes?

Marc Gravell

checking now... I know at least most have both the older vendor-specific and the generic variants

Andy E's head

12:21

when I say "your CSS", I don't mean "CSS that you have written" :p

Marc Gravell

yes, we don't write it. We dictate it to our paid unicorn serfs, and they engrave it on the platter with their magical weapon.

(the one on their head, that is)

My favorite IE9 quirk is the missing images on the SOFU login page...

Andy E's head

I noticed the badges don't have border-radius in IE 9 on SE sites too.

Marc Gravell

ooh! they've just arrived!

Andy E's head

@Marc: mine is when you hover over a comment you've left and the comment disappears. Move the mouse a little and it flashes :-)

Marc Gravell

the problem is the gradient filter.

Benjol

12:25

Is there any one (known to be) on the IE9 team who hangs out on SO?

Andy E's head

ahh yes

Marc Gravell

twice today that has bitten me; earlier today I had to remove the shadow filter for similar reasons

My "commit" message-of-the-day: "IE shadow filter *has to die*"

Tweeted by marcgravell on September 17, 2010 at 7:02 AM

Andy E's head

The old filters have a real problem with transparency

Marc Gravell

killing the gradient filters...

(just there for now; I don't care about other places where it isn't rounded)

Andy E's head

@MarcGravell lol typical tech support response :-P

badp

12:28

oh lord, take any question with long comments and hover through them in IE9

my eyes are bleeding

Andy E's head

@badp: looks fine to me, only my own comments seem to be affected

badp

@AndyEshead I get that the lines of text "wobble" one pixel up and down as I move the mouse around the comment area

For example, Piskvor's comment's second and last-to-second lines

oh cool, IE9 supports Ins as a overwrite/insert toggle. Sure, there's no visual hint telling you if you're inserting or overwriting...

hah!

yesterday, by The Unhandled Exception

grats, @TheUnhandled!

Andy E's head

@badp That's always been an IE feature

Feeds

test @Marc

badp

@AndyEshead You mean you've been using IE enough to remember if it was a feature or not? Scary!

@Marc test++;

Marc Gravell

12:35

@badp try now; no gradient, though. Still trying to check if IE9 supports that via css w/o image-filters

Andy E's head

@badp : I like to chastise myself by using browsers that annoy me.

badp

@Marc: looks okay now

Marc Gravell

well, less bad ;p

badp

when you have more time to waste into IE9 compatibility, the transcripts have the exact same problem ;P

Marc Gravell

@badp how so? what problem? (goes to transcript...) [status-norepro]

HoLyVieR' UNION DO EVIL SQL--

12:37

Well IE9 isn't mandatory yet, since it's still a beta browser ... right ?

Marc Gravell

don't get me wrong; I'm not crazy-obsessed with supporting IE9, but I'm curious as to the flavor of the issues...

HoLyVieR' UNION DO EVIL SQL--

ah, kk

badp

@HoLyVieRUNIONDOEVILSQL Yeah, but I think it's okay to be aware of the places problems may pop up in?

This way you know quickly what to check when IE9 is released

Andy E's head

@Marc: Issues like this may still persist in the final release, so it can't hurt to solve them sooner rather than later

badp

I'm annoyed that the "no beta policy" brough has brought broken blockquote into Chrome 6 final

Marc Gravell

12:40

btw, have people seen/tried the new horizontal (day) vertical (hour) paging in the transcript? (I didn't do the UI to that, so I'm not fishing - but I like it)

Andy E's head

@MarcGravell it's pretty cool :-)

badp

@MarcGravell Yeah, I have. I like how sectioning is done activity-wise, instead of time-wise

besides what harm is there in asking for feedback for what you make?

For example I'll ask for feedback on this:

@Marc, do you like better the freehanded circle, triangle, star or square? :D

Andy E's head

@badp -1 Not enough hexagons

badp

@AndyEshead I'm not good enough for exagons :(

besides I ran out of corners

Andy E's head

:)

Well, beta browsers supported or not, the 2 issues for IE 9 reported on Meta today appear to have been fixed (ish)

rchern

12:49

pfft, that's not fair! :p

badp

No love for the farmville bug!

Andy E's head

it's possible that the fixes were undos of workarounds for older versions of IE that are no longer required for IE 9. If that's the case, they'd need fixing sooner or later

badp

okay, jQuery's completion thingy for tags doesn't work in IE9

Marc Gravell

@badp make it an x and you have playstation ;p

badp

how do you suggest I freehand x something? :(

The Unhandled Exception

12:55

Morning everyone

rchern

allo

Marc Gravell

@badp is that IE9? That isn't how it renders for me. Very confused

badp

@MarcGravell yes

btw my biggest usability problem with IE9 (and IE8) and FF4 is that they just had to be Win7 compatible and show a different "window" per tab

now clicking on the icon in your taskbar only pops up the list of tabs you have open

going back to the tab you were now requires clicking/hovering on the IE9/FF4 icon, then moving straight up (cross any other button on the taskbar and you must start over), find the tab you wanted to come back to and finally click on it

WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

The Unhandled Exception

31 mins ago, by badp

grats, @TheUnhandled!

Marc Gravell

balpha mocked me for taking the gradient away from all the official IE versions; so that change may evaporate at some point. Maybe MS will fix their browser ;p

The Unhandled Exception

13:05

thanks @badp :-)

@MarcGravell Doubtful :-)

badp

@Marc, something bad happened to the "SO@Twitter" room

oh it's back nvm

ROFL

my iMac doesn't feel faster after this. http://i.imgur.com/3J2Ez.png in fact, something weird is going on...

Tweeted by jzy on September 17, 2010 at 12:04 AM

Marc Gravell

a disturbance in the force usually means someone is deploying

Piers Myers

how do you paste those tweets on here?

badp

@Piers: paste here the tweet permalink with nothing else on the message

Piers Myers

@badp ah, ok, thanks

The Unhandled Exception

13:10

@badp LOL

I tried rm -rf / and rm -rf /* on a linux machine the other day, they didn't work!!

badp

fail!

The Unhandled Exception

said "Cannot remove the root directory". Bah!

HoLyVieR' UNION DO EVIL SQL--

@TheUnhandledException Your evilness priviledge level was not high enough :p

The Unhandled Exception

@HoLyVieRUNIONDOEVILSQL I think so. The machine knew I was trying to destroy it :-)

It was a virtual machine, so rm -rf FolderContainingTheVM/ on the host worked nicely XD

badp

@TheUnhandledException You could've just done sudo mv /bin /baz :P

The Unhandled Exception

13:14

@badp That would've done it :-)

badp

I'm tempted to clone a virtual machine just to see what happens

The Unhandled Exception

oh wait, no it wouldn't have... I was running the loldistro, /baz instead of /bin, /varz instead of /var, /dev/donotwant in place of /dev/null...

@badp Would probably die early in the boot process... earlier if you renamed /sbin, then it would fail to mount filesystems

badp

You know what would be fun?

The Unhandled Exception

Wouldn't be able to find a shell! Maybe Kernel Panic: attempting to kill init! ?

badp

Take a Windows wannabe "pro" user and swap his Windows/ and Program Files/ folders

The Unhandled Exception

13:20

@badp HA!

Ok, headed into a meeting, be back soon...

Benjol

How long has welbog been torontoed?

Toronto, Toronto

14.8k 2 19 78

discussion feature-request bug stackoverflow reputation support status-completed

badp

13:40

@Benjol Look for that in the transcript

Benjol

good idea

Transcript for