« first day (20 days earlier)      last day (4990 days later) » 

12:02 AM
you want to animate it like a pac-man and turn it into a game, would make displaying boring stats far more interesting
Sounds fantastic.
@SergioTapia gotcha. Web app or desktop?
Desktop application
By the way guys, how many characters does SHA1 output? I'm going to be hashing passwords using this.
My field for pass is going to be Password varchar(????) not null
@SergioTapia Then you could probably do animation with ZedGraph fairly easily. Just detect the mouse-over and adjust the slice displacement as-needed. (and then re-render, of course)
Thanks, I'll look into it.
12:09 AM
doesn't look like ZedGraph has been updated for 3 years, but if it can do what you need it to then shouldn't be a problem
There are quite a few different charting libraries for .NET... I used the Dundas stuff a few years back, pretty slick (but not free).
If you do ask a question on SO, just write up a detailed description of what you're actually trying to do (animated slices on mouseover or whatever) - there are several "recommend a graphing lib for C#" questions already, so being specific will help you avoid the duplicate trap.
How many characters does hashing a password with SHA1 output?
12:31 AM
Q: Storing SHA1 hash values in MySQL

niklasfiHi. I have a simple question which occured when I wanted to store the result of a SHA1 hash in a MySQL database: How long should the VARCHAR field be in which I store the hash's result?

So I should have the column be 40 characters big?
20 at 8 bits per character
40 at 4 bits per character (is this for printable-only key?)
So: Password varchar(40) not null?
Is that correct for SQL Server?
you should really read that answer...
I don't understand what they mean by 8bit per character and 4 bit per character.
I don't know how to set that. or even if I need to
12:35 AM
you don't
he's saying if you store it hex-coded, you're storing 4-bits/char
if you store it binary-coded, you can store it 8-bits/char
but either way, you don't need varchar - it'll always be the same length
char(40) (for hex-coding)
or binary(20) for binary-coding
Password char(40) not null?
should do
yeah, I think you want to do hex coding
Ok, I'll give it a shot. Do you know of a free library to hash passwords? Something that would let me do:

string hashedPassword = HashingLib.Hash(txtPassword.Text);

Something like that.
will make it easier if you ever want to search for a specific password... ;-)
12:38 AM
I'd rather not reinvent the wheel especially on security.
I'm also not going to consider salts.
A simple has is enough.
pretty sure it's builtin to .NET somewhere (along with MD5, SHA512, probably ROT13...) but I couldn't tell you where
there are a ton of questions about it on SO though
@Shog9 yeah
@Shog9 double yeah
Might as well start here:
Q: Best way to store password in database

Crash893I am working on a project that has to have authentication (user name/pass) It also connects to a database so i figured i would store the user name and password there but it seems like not such a good idea to have passwords as just a text field in a table sitting on the db I'm using C# and conn...

not terribly useful in itself, but Paolo links to some other stuff
(and don't forget about the Linked and Related sidebars. You could easily spend a day on it if you don't get tired of reading first...)
@SergioTapia Have you tried looking at the System.Security.Cryptography namespace msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/…
I found that link and it provides exactly what I'm looking for. Except that it returns a byte[] array.
12:46 AM
Q: How do you convert Byte Array to Hexadecimal String, and vice versa, in C#?

alextanscThis is probably a common question over the Internet, but I couldn't find an answer that neatly explains how you can convert a byte array to a hexadecimal string, and vice versa. Any takers?

(or just go back to binary(20) in your schema...)
And then I could just save it directly?
Is this chat room typically just a place for people to sit and ask all their questions while they work?
@ErickRobertson no
This chat room is here to distract you from work. ;)
@Erick no
It's a lounge type place.
12:48 AM
@SergioTapia beats me. I don't really use .NET. I'd say, "probably", but it's that kind of thinking that led me to get frustrated with .NET in the first place...
so is it sad that I am here long after getting home from work?
@GeorgeMarian Yes, I found the distraction earlier today when I needed it.
@EricWeilnau yeah. But mentioning that would be like sitting in a glass house and throwing stones, so I won't.
My team is clearly missing a developer. I have two friends that I would like to bring in, and I convinced my manager that there was work enough for two people. But the big boss said, only one.
So I hung out in here while my manager was in a meeting with the big boss... too distracted to work.
12:50 AM
ouch - so you're stuck deciding between two friends?
(incidentally, if you spend too much time here there'll soon be work enough for three friends...)
Nope, the decision was made for me.
One of the friends has more experience, and he was the guy I brought in first, when I knew there was only one opening.
But I just got off the phone with the other friend breaking the bad news.
So now, I'm drinking.
fixing computer for a friend of a friend
wife "volunteered me"
yet another case of too many crappy A/V programs hosing the entire network stack
has anyone tried out the VS Lightswitch Beta?
1:12 AM
just read this... sounds like Access 3000
i have read that. i am still hopeful based on the ability to open the project in VS professional for extension. I am just curious to hear if anyone has done this. What are their thoughts on the code generated.
@Shog9 I just can't resist... After a second free visit to work on the home network of one my girfriend's aunts, the aunt turns to me and says "you're really good at this, you should consider starting a business." Unfortunately, the perfect response didn't come to mind until much later: "Yes, but people like you don't want to pay."
I edited that before someone made a comment about the reason for my visit... ;)
because you wanted to get laid, obviously
not by the aunt...
1:19 AM
I tried Lightswitch.
It's a lot like Access and I can totally see people saying they are developers when they only use Lightswitch D:
If it produces decent code, I do not have a problem with it
I never had a problem with Access itself... it was the underlying DB that gave me trouble
It creates the kind of apps that are not interesting enough to be worth developing
I hate having to maintain the abortion that is my companies Access application.
1:23 AM
A lot of people call themselves developers who have only ever developed their ass and a hole in the ground, and they don't even know which was which.
@SergioTapia switch to PowerBuilder... ;-P
I have worked with "Sr App Engineers" who were not any better
I think you can call yourself a developer when you understand the underlying code and not just generate things. If you understand what to use and when, then you are a developer and not a SmartUI developer.
@ErickRobertson LOL
Managers never look at code and could not tell the difference if they did. All they care about is whether it looks done. Most will also blame the maintenance programmers when things go wrong later.
1:27 AM
Where I work we have free reign to do whatever we want to accomplish a task. As long as we fullfill it, we are good to go. Of course professional craft comes into play because you want to create nice code.
1 hour later…
2:42 AM
I am watching Primer
3:00 AM
@Diago The Tavern, IE 5.5:
@devinb The Tavern, IE 3:
@balpha Rooms list, IE 5.5:
@GeorgeMarian And finally, rooms list, IE 3:
As noted earlier, chat just fails outright at loading in IE 4.01 and IE 5.01.
3:21 AM
Here is a classic example of someone who misses the point of SO. stackoverflow.com/users/282918/ron-m 8 questions, no accepted answers, no upvotes or downvotes and he apparently has a bit of an attitude!
3:33 AM
closes browser window before succumbing to the temptation to comment
5 hours later…
8:50 AM
Good morning.
3 hours later…
11:38 AM
good morning
and to you
this is a day to kick ass and take names
'afternoon guys - I think it would be nice to have an indicator of what time zone users are in
you can pretty much guess that from their activity graph
(not to mention that we don't have that precise information)
yeah, it seems most are US based.
11:44 AM
it's 6:45 AM here
@ErickRobertson how is 6:45, I don't get to see it very often?
It's early. This office is nearly bustling at 6:45, though.
I actually was late today. Normally I try to start about 6:15
ouch, hope you manage to get out at a reasonable time
I can leave anytime after 3:00 - it varies
There's lots of work, so some nights it's 5:00.
I hope that's PM and not AM :)
11:54 AM
oh for sure :)
12:27 PM
is there a stackoverflow chat room?
there was one
it was autodeleted for lack of activity
I'll undelete it
if there's nobody there, I guess it might as well stay deleted

Stack Overflow

For discussing, y'know, Stack Overflow.
well, you're right -- there should be a room
12:39 PM
We should add a link to the top of the stackoverflow.com site pointing to that chat room. Then people would be there.
Maybe when it's out of beta?
SO will have its own chat site at some point
then it will have a chat link, just like meta does now
oh, it'll be its own collection of rooms?
where did this chat software come from, was it implemented by the SO guys?
that should be interesting, I assume there would be rooms for different technologies, like a Java room and a C# room?
@ErickRobertson yes
@Don "yes" to the second question
12:41 PM
In the meantime, the SO room will give us a place to redirect people who insist on asking their technical questions in here :)
just make sure (now and later) that real questions find their way to the main site
Q&A doesn't work as discussion, and chat doesn't work as a Q&A database
there was a guy in here yesterday who was obviously actively working on a project and using this chat room as a first resource for every little problem he had
of course, if we redirect that kind of discussion to the SO room, then nobody's going to sit in the SO room.
1:02 PM
still too few users using chat to have so many rooms, seems action only takes place in Gaming, Chat Feedback and The Tavern
this is more fun than working.
so is watching paint dry
It also depends on the time of day.
paint seems to dry the same irrespective of the time of day
1:11 PM
@ErickRobertson That's typical bad behavior even on IRC. Best to point them to the docs and let them run with it.
@spoulson docs as in Google or SO?
1:34 PM
I like the contest that is running on superUser.. wish there was one on SO.
@PiersMyers Whatever is appropriate. Intended as a polite send-off.
What contest?
how old is SO, is it due for an anniversary?
1:41 PM
going on 2 years?
1:57 PM
I'm going for a smoke.
ok I feel better now.
what's an mvvm design pattern anyway?
all these abbreviations that get popular in a certain niche and then nobody else knows what you're talking about anymore
oh, presentation model
2:21 PM
@Don I think that's exactly what I said when I realized there was no SO room and I created it in the first place. Yeah. That went well.
back by popular demand
don't encourage him..
@wds Slighly over two years, now.
@Chacha102 Why, would you prefer I switch to the second half of some other common phrase?
bah .. its too early..
@balpha if you haven't scrolled up, I finally got around to posting those screenshots from the other day.
2:25 PM
@PopularDemand has it been that long? Man, I can still remember listening to the "6 to 8 weeks" podcast.
@PopularDemand yeah, thanks, I saw them. Those were the days...
@wds Is that the Model-View-View-Model presentation model?
@ErickRobertson yes, though the name doesn't make much sense. It seems like it should be Model - ViewModel - View
wow, I was joking...
Every day I get down on my knees and thank the living Christ that I'm not a Microsoft developer.
I'm surprised there's no MSO room on chat.mso, but meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/62098 and meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/62097 are perfectly equal
2:32 PM
on that mvvm question i posted, it's just surprising to me how much code he can post without exposing any important/private functionality of his app... because it's all generic design pattern garbage. [subjective] [opinion]
yes i tag my chats.. hah.
Now I know what it is, I remember my brother (who is a .NET developer) talking about this
MVVM is pretty much the ultimate anti-DRY
and it's the same kind of "oh this will allow front-end and back-end designers to work together better" that make JEE and SOAP such a mess
also [subjective][opinion]
I work with a life coach who advises to use structure and routine when it works to generate results, but to avoid busy-work. I like to take the same approach to programming.
My approach to programming: If I can't understand it tomorrow, it must be good.
2:36 PM
+1 to both of you.
well, I clearly do too much busywork, considering the question I just answered
A: Tips for Manually Managing Persistence Context

wdsI'm not sure about the best practices surrounding this, but I have spent a lot of time trying to make something like this work. Basically you will need something to construct an EntityManager with. I've always used Spring for this. Their documentation has a big section on this. You can choose to...

I did end with "but seriously, don't"
I would be highly skeptical of any object called EntityManager
try backticks
Well I currently use spring so it's all LocalContainerEntityManagerFactoryBean and stuff like that
2:38 PM
I'd rather blow my brains out than use something like that.
it does work pretty well, but I've recently been introduced to guice and it's definitely a lot less verbose
what does it do for you?
dependency injection
and stuff like the above question, making JPA close to usable
nevermind, then... :)
2:44 PM
Here's the thing with stackoverflow: I know a lot about this particular niche problem, I spent a bunch of time typing up that answer, but the fact that it is so niche means I probably won't get any upvotes. And chances are someone will come along and say "just do it like this" and that'll be the accepted answer.
well you just got an upvote
3:02 PM
well I can't come and whine about it in here every time I write a response ;-)
though it doesn't happen often that a question happens to fit with my general experience so well anyway
I suppose it would be rude to start pasting this on random PHP questions, but I do feel tempted:
do you feel that PHP is more susceptible to XSS than other languages?
oh well, i need pizza... be back later.
@Fosco is PHP the one with "magic quotes"?
I know it's the one with the OOP features bolted on
nvm I just realised that describes 90% of the dynamic languages
Fosco, you looking for a Java job in Chicago by any chance? :)
3:39 PM
I don't feel sanely-written PHP is more susceptible, but sanely-written PHP does seem to be rarer than sanely-written code in other languages
Do you people realize that resumes should be one page long?
Mine is two, and people can deal with it
Do you realize that people reading your resume don't have 30 minutes to read and understand 4-6 pages of excruciating detail about every GD project you ever worked on?
two isn't bad
Had an 8-page resume a couple weeks ago
Q: Once a flag is cleared from the mod queue, the same post cannot be re-flagged

Jon SeigelJeff stated in a comment on my answer here that users are allowed to re-flag a post after the initial flag is cleared from the moderator queue (I infer this to mean that you can flag a post as much as you want, but only have one active flag per post at a time, which makes sense). I've never foun...

This just hit me today, see my answer.
@LanceRoberts Done.
Oddly before I read your chat post.
(It's validation Tuesday, @Lance.)
3:52 PM
@PopularDemand I also upvoted your feature-request on the topic.
@shog9 yeah.. 'magic quotes' is a now-deprecated feature i believe...
Q: Allow users to flag questions more than once

Popular DemandEDIT 3: Looks like this may be [status-completed]... see this answer by Jeff. EDIT 2: This used to be titled "Why can you only flag a given post for mod attention once?" I changed the title because I morphed the post into a feature request. The body of the question, on the other hand, alr...

@MichaelMrozek ok, i can agree.. i've written a lot of sane php. :)
@LanceRoberts Thanks; I hope it becomes redundant, though.
@ErickRobertson Mine is 2 pages now.. I found myself without a job in mid-may, it took 1 week for me to get an offer.
@ErickRobertson RE: Java/Chicago.. see my starred comment re: blowing my brains out. :P
/me is a jerk.. sorry :D
3:58 PM
@Diago, if you scroll up a bit, I finally posted those screenshots from the other day.
@PopularDemand Yeah, I caught them on catch up this morning. Thanks!
@Diago Oh, right, the catchup feature. I forgot about that. Man, I am slow today.
@Fosco I thought the blowing your brains out was in response to the EntityManager
(And you're welcome.)
it was
4:00 PM
I'm thinking of writing a little notification widget thing for myself. You know, "Display a popup with [message] at [date] [time]." Partially because I'm not thrilled with Outlook/EssentialPIM, but partially just because I could use a project. Language recs, anyone?
@PopularDemand I was quite surprised it worked. I know for some time there was problems with it, and I hadn't been in tarvern in a while.
@Fosco So you apply that to Java in general?
@PopularDemand How about making a Windows Gadget ?
@PopularDemand Sadly, I have to agree with the C# rec.
4:02 PM
@Diago That the posting worked, or that the browser worked?
If it's windows-only, you can't argue with C# for that kind of app
@PopularDemand Both!
@ErickRobertson I stay away from Java, as a rule. I'm very biased against it.
ah, well.
The posting was just from Flickr, nothing special there. As far as the browser, I think it's just that IE3 is too stupid to know it should fail.
4:03 PM
@Fosco you sure you just haven't been surrounded with J2EE programmers?
IE4.01/IE5.01 were smart enough to know they shouldn't proceed... if you can call that smart.
@Fosco C++, WinAPI
@Fosco Why is that? Nearly all of my experience is in Java, which is part of the reason I'm looking for a side project in the first place.
@ErickRobertson it goes much deeper than that.
i don't think anyone really wants to hear why I dislike Java....
C# it is, I guess. Should be fun to pick that up with my background....
4:06 PM
@PopularDemand sounds like a great learning experience.. can't wait to see it.
@Fosco I'm curious. Can you sum up?
I was pleasantly surprised to see a windows gadget for SO Flair by Magnus J.
@Fosco Ha, you think it'll be done soon and/or will be something I'm not embarassed to put my name on.
I liked the concept of Windows Gadgets, but eventually I decided the sidebar took too long to load to be worth it.
@PopularDemand Is your background in agricultural technology?
@ErickRobertson ... no, Java the programming language. Not the coffee bean or the island.
Seriously though, I've seen C# people come over to Java and think "this is 95% the same but there are some quirky pitfalls/differences"; I expect the same thing to happen.
I'd almost rather do something completely different.
4:09 PM
Yeah, one of the quirky pitfalls in Java is called Inheritance
@ErickRobertson 1. It's slow. 2. The VM. 3. Stupid terminology (beans, jars, wars). 4. I'll continue this later.
@PopularDemand you can, now, use C# in a very different fashion from what you're probably used to in Java
You can also write Java in C# of course, but that's no fun (for anyone)
@Fosco Okay, so nothing well-founded in reality. :)
that's all I wanted to know
@Fosco no, no... Please continue - I need a good language rant to wake me up, this coffee^H^H^H^H^H^H java just isn't cutting it
@Shog9 English! My goodness! I can't believe we still use this old patched-together pile of junk! Can we get some Esperanto up in here?
4:12 PM
Fosco, that was a little rib. I shouldn't have done it, given that you really didn't want to talk about it to begin with. I just wanted an idea.
personally, I loved Java when it first came on the scene
it was so cute, like a real language in miniature
had tons of fun writing crappy little browser applets
@Shog9 Maybe I'm just young, but I always heard in school about how far we've come since the mythical halcyon early days.
then one day, i wake up and realize folks are trying to use it for serious stuff...
Hm, are Windows Gadgets written in C#?
4:15 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have dismissed that idea so quickly.
JavaScript & ActiveX all the way, babeeee
@PopularDemand SO to the rescue:
Q: C# tutorial to write gadgets

George2How can I write gadgets for the Windows 7 desktop using C# and Visual Studio 2008? I'm looking for tutorials and resources on that topic.

@Diago No, no, no, that's not an objective question!
@PopularDemand well, it did. It's no longer anything you could call "halcyon" for one. Which is probably just as well... Shoes always seemed halcyon to me, and look how that ended up...
@PopularDemand Lolz. Sometimes I am glad I don't have any rep on SO
4:19 PM
@Diago Are you trying to tell me that people don't try to post junk to SU? Really?
SU is ruled with an iron fist. That would never fly on SO...
(actually, flying iron fists sounds pretty interesting...)
@PopularDemand @Shog9 said it. My popularity is solely due to my closing skills :)
@Diago Close hammers are pretty sweet.
@ErickRobertson You're right... I didn't want to.
Is Chacha still on vacation, or has he just abandoned The Tavern?
4:34 PM
@PopularDemand he shows up periodically, makes a comment, and then disappears again.
2 hours ago, by Chacha102
bah .. its too early..
It's not like there are a lot of zoning variances and liquor licenses affecting this tavern for him to take care of.
yeah, chacha was here when you logged in.. i said 'back by popular demand' and he said 'dont encourage him'... you even talked to him.
Ha, I thought that was Shog.
@PopularDemand You mean there is no liquor license? Darn. (hides drink quickly)
4:36 PM
@Diago you can bring your own, we just can't serve you one.
Ah. Ok. So I can happily continue then :)
I need to cut my losses, go home and get in bed before I accidentally cause a rapid increase in global warming or something.
I really need to stop reading Meta for today, or I am really going to insult someone today.
@Diago I'm... going to walk... over there, now....
@PopularDemand I suggest you walk.... This way rather... There is some alcohol left still
4:39 PM
@Diago Yeah, not falling for that!
Q: Almost 64k Java questions

Stackoverflow's java questions are almost at a 64K mark. Wouldn't it be nice to have some kind of celebration or something like that? Like the #65535 question would appear #FFFF or something like that

That just hurts :(
@PopularDemand It was a sincere and honest invitation. Better be quick. I am on 2 of 6 already and have only been home 45 minutes.
@Diago Wasn't it also quick-closed? Oh god it's reopened.
Even worse... It was migrated!
mmm.. unicorn meat..
4:41 PM
I love that close reason :)
closed as noise or pointless by Popular Demand, Diago
I also love reading that :)
@PopularDemand We could not calculate directions between Virginia and South Africa..... Just saying :)
Although there is a Virginia Airport not to far from here actually :)
@Diago Yes, that's what I was pointing out; I can't get there.
At least not before you're finishing 6 of 6.
True. But I would make sure there is a fresh pack when you arrive when you do get directions :)
I'm already planning to apply for a passport... let's say 6-8 weeks.
4:44 PM
Better then 2 - 3 months :(
What's happening in 2-3 months?
Had to can my trip to Redmond and Vegas because of it
Stupid passports. Apparently Americans don't like outside visitors for some reason.
Okay, I'll say it: those seem like unusual cities to put on the same trip.
Oh, One was for a SharePoint Training course and then the other for PDC
@PopularDemand bastard. Like i would post something so inane.
4:51 PM
Oh :( Wrong room
so, back to why Java is such a terrible language...
who wants to start us off?
same reason VB is so rotten: the users
This ?
My bad
(psst! work nazis in to your response somewhere...)
@Diago if you tried to kick me, it didn't work
@Shog9 WB :)
@Shog9 It worked on my side :(
4:55 PM
apparently Chat will ask you before reloading the page if you've started typing something...
@Shog9 Interesting. That could make the whole feature useless altogether
And at least you have a sense of humour
Or is was it @PopularDemand I was thinking off
don't be silly - @Pops is notoriously serious
(oh, wait... That's Sampson)
Don't forget Lance
Q: "Grammar Nazis"

Boofus McGoofusI'm no fan of the phrase, but it's going to come up (often). Do we need... to flag it as offensive? to have a FAQ recommending against its use? to "suck it up"? to indicate that while one can self-identify that way, one can't use that phrase for others? Just thinking "aloud" and wondering w...

@Shog9 This is true. There is no place for fun in the Stack Exchange communities.
Unless it involves boats.
4:58 PM
I didn't get the nickname "Pops" -- which is apparently my nickname -- for being a loafing slackabout. You whippersnappers.

« first day (20 days earlier)      last day (4990 days later) »