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5:00 PM
My sense of humor varies with my caffeine level.
hands Lance an economy-size bottle of NoDoze
@Shog9 Stop that! It might be inversely proportional!
should do the trick... unless it varies inversely... OH NOES!!!
@PopularDemand ha! beat me to it
5:03 PM
@Shog9 Yeah, but you get points for saying "OH NOES!!!"
As I have stated before, my life won't be complete until whoever created the tag [oh-noes] on MSO earns Taxonomist for it.
I also recently noticed the what-is tag. No idea who was the bright spark.
oh, wow... just realized this clown is the same guy who was arguing that VB.NET needs IDispatch interfaces to work with COM
so now he probably thinks I'm just picking on him because he's a pretentious asshole instead of because he's a pretentious asshole on Meta
That clown has gained more rep in 20 days on SO then I have in 2 years :(
5:06 PM
I really don't understand how that post relates to the question. I didn't click the links, but we discussed the Zimbardo experiment ad nauseum in college. (Once again: psych major.)
@Diago Preach it, brotha.
@PopularDemand it's a clever way of calling folks who close questions Nazis. Well, not so much "clever" as "unnecessarily obscure", but...
Although on SO rep has no meaning until you pass the 10K mark these days.
Q: Is decrease in quality inevitable?

NullUserExceptionI've been a member of SO for little over a month and lately I've noticing that people are asking questions that are: Easily searchable; Copy and pasted homework questions; Verifiable by testing it themselves; OP has a sense of entitlement ... And of course are also poorly formatted, poorly wo...

@Shog9 I wouldn't even go as far as "unnecessarily obscure"; the parallels between that experiment and question closure are... tenuous at best.
@Diago 10K doesn't do much. 3K == edit + close - the (tiny subset of) folks who actually use those two abilities have a huge impact on the site
Is it just me or are most of the amazing (I use the term loosely) posts made by new members?
5:09 PM
@Diago: on Meta? Or in general?
@Shog9 I am going to say both, but mainly Meta since I have a vested interest
@PopularDemand there aren't any, or at least, no obvious ones and none that he bothered to draw. So again, he could have just posted, "You lotta brown-shirts!" and been done with it.
Wait, that's [status-completed]? Perhaps I should start listening to the podcast.
New user joins, new user believes they can influence change on SO, new user gets beaten to a pulp on Meta, new user either submits and stays, or leaves.
Typical lifecycle of a new user
Or in rare cases becomes a mod.
@Diago BTW: look at his two most-upvoted answers... Guy makes me proud ;-)
5:12 PM
(The latter referring to myself. Solely)
Is Apr 26 really the most recent podcast? I thought these things were more regular.
@Diago would have never guessed <--- not sarcasm
also not sarcasm -----------------------------------------^^^^^
@Shog9 Lolz. I have such a love hate relationship with the community I wouldn't know
@PopularDemand They stopped remember?
Joel got sick of it and ended them.
@Diago Nope. I never followed the podcast.
5:14 PM
@Shog9 I sometimes think I get upvoted solely because someone is too lazy to retype my answer.
I miss the podcast
So do I
@Diago Well, that's why I up-vote you
It's one of the few tech talk podcasts not done in a "I know everything" attitude.
(but then I end up re-typing your answer anyway while editing it)
5:15 PM
@Shog9 My personal grammar and spelling wizard. Who needs built in spell checking. Which I still can't believe isn't standard in IE when every other browser does have it. Also, English is not actually my first language. Or wasn't.
sad thing is, I'm a terrible speller and my grammar tends toward atrocious
Back to my original question, then: why is meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/56817/… marked completed?
The politician's syllogism, also known as the politician's fallacy is a logical fallacy of the form: #We must do something #This is something #Therefore, we must do this. It is a logical fallacy in the form of Equivocation, which is using one word ("something") in two different senses. The politician's fallacy was identified in the "Party Games" episode of the BBC television show "Yes Minister", and has taken added life on the internet. The syllogism (invented by fictional British civil servants) has been quoted in the (real) British Parliament. See also *Logical fallacies *List of f...
A: Can we prevent some of the low-quality questions from entering our system?

Jeff AtwoodBased on the feedback from this post, we have now implemented a form of screening during the question ask period. Questions from IP addresses or accounts with a history of extremely poor questions will no longer be accepted. This is intended to weed out the worst quality questions. (hint hint, ...

(Something needed to be done. Jeff did something. status-complete)
@PopularDemand @Shog9 beat me to it
@Diago missed this the first time through... You're using IE?
5:20 PM
@Shog9 At work yes. At home I use Safari. (I only use Mac's at home, Windows only in VM). The reader option is Safari is the sole reason using it over Chrome. For now.
Microsoft loves me when I do Tech-Talks for them. Since I do them from my Mac.
Which remind me, I am supposed to be preparing a talk for Tech-Ed Africa. :(
I vote this for the most asked question for the month
Q: Will we loose quality due to fragmentation?

jbCodeI am concerned that with the advent of many domain specific sites (webmasters, user interface, etc, etc) that StackOverflow will decrease in quality. By splitting things up this way we are decentralizing the brain-power over multiple sites. What will then happen is that someone that could easily ...

And I am to lazy to find the duplicates
@Shog9 D'oh. That was so far down the list I didn't see it. Stupid no-float-to-top-if-answering-your-own-question.
And lastly: member for 19 days
What did I miss?
5:22 PM
@PopularDemand You then need to add your vote to this cause:
Q: Add a link to the accepted answer when it was by the OP

Tobias KienzlerWhile it's fair to not make an own answer the most prominent one after self-acceptance, in questions with many answers it is still difficult to find if it is not also the most up-voted one, e.g. here. So a small jump to the OP's self-accepted answer link (or maybe a show the (self-!)-accepted ans...

@PopularDemand Stupid "post my own answer instead of accepting someone else's"
@ErickRobertson Nothing life changing.
@ErickRobertson we all got ice cream. Hope you had fun...
Better. I had lunch.
Actually I am waiting for devinb to answer my first paste. It should be good
I am sure that competition for best question of the week only applies to SU :( Or do some people not read.
5:25 PM
@ErickRobertson Oh yeah? We had lunch, too. And it was ice cream for every course.
@Diago there's a competition?
@MichaelMrozek Darn, FGIWed.
@Shog9 What @MichaelMrozek said.
Oh Great :( The Andriod proposal just moved into commitment
@PopularDemand Mine was grilled cheese, tomato soup, and homemade BBQ potato chips. Ice cream would make me fat.
5:28 PM
@MichaelMrozek hmm, sounds fun. Too bad it's SU
@Shog9 Come on. You just need to post one question and you could win hand down
@ErickRobertson I eat ice cream almost every day, and somehow I'm still losing weight.
(I never said that. Ever. In a thousand years)
@Shog9 <insert foul language here>
@Shog9 See what you have to compete with.
Q: How do I install Windows 3.11 on Virtual PC 2007?

brianboltonJust for fun.... I downloaded windows 3.11 and virtual pc 2007 from my MSDN subscription. I've never actually installed this before. A few ideas come to mind Create an iso with the win3.11 files on it. However, when I capture the iso from vpc it doesn't do anything. Create a floppy disk ima...

The opening sentence just kills me.
5:31 PM
"I have done it, and it is great fun!"
I don't remember installing 3.11 being great fun, but maybe the fun is magnified when you do it on a VM
nostalgia is fun sometimes..
I'd have to be honest about it though. A SU question I'd ask would be something like, "How do I reset the network stack after wretched AV programs have fouled it up?" or "How do I get GIMP script windows to pop above other windows on Windows 7?" - not exactly broad, populist questions
(incidentally, just logged into SU and got to experience the new "autologin" thing. SNazzY!)
I wish GIMP didn't have every window floating on its own...
it's supposed to copy photoshop for a reason
@Fosco +1
@Fosco in version 2.8 you'll have the choice
I think it's supposed to come this year
5:35 PM
@ErickRobertson You're not fat? You're a developer! There are stereotypes to live up to!
@balpha is here.. My que to leave, the serious conversation will now commence :)
too late.. I have an activated copy of CS5 Master Collection.
@Fosco Sadly so do I, only to realise I use it about twice a year
or should I say a copy of CS5 that can't phone home to find out it should be activated.
5:35 PM
@balpha (Just so you know it was a compliment)
@Fosco I actually like that, but Windows has been slow to provide a proper window manager
done enough serious stuff for a day
hand me the booze
@balpha Same invite applies to you that I gave @PopularDemand
hands irish java to balpha
5:37 PM
this Pascal guy has a real hardon for hibernate: stackoverflow.com/questions/3557289/…
@Diago My booze!
pardon my french
heh... He does kinda own that tag.
oh is that why he went into attack mode over a well disclaimed comment?..
I guess that makes sense.
's like the dude on Meta the other day, getting all fired up about the xsl synonym (or "sinonim")
when that one tag is effectively your life, anything related to it becomes A Big Deal
5:42 PM
do you 'own' any tags Shog9?
or if i do, it's something so obscure that even I don't know about it
like... GetLastError
(goes to check if that's actually a tag)
HA! it is!
...but I'm not even in the list :-(
goes to add [getlasterror] to something he's answered
@PopularDemand It can be shared
i own [formatmessage] - a tag with only four questions...
How do you check what tags you own? SEDE?
I just started picking obscure-looking tags
and checking the stats page
(by "own" here i mean "top of the stats list", not "created")
5:48 PM
Q: Can new users to a SE 1.0 site be allowed to post images?

user150383Many months ago, I started the Stack Exchange 1.0 site www.panoverflow.com as a kind of companion site to my main startup, www.360cities.net, which is a commmunity website where photographers publish their — technically perfect — 360 panoramic photos. The purpose of panoverflow is to ...

Did someone miss the whole SE 2.0 saga?
@Shog9 Ah, I thought we were talking about created tags
@Diago Yes.
@PopularDemand You beat me by 22 seconds
(Why would he specify "1.0" if he didn't know there was a "2.0"?)
I would think that if they'd paid some money for their SE1.0 site that there would still be some support. I thought the admins on the site could set rep limits.
5:50 PM
@badp I added that in my edit just now so future readers wouldn't be confused.
@Diago Maybe this day won't be a total wash. Sorry for colliding, though.
@Diago You say "shared," I hear "less for me."
@PopularDemand I think I am closer to the end of my day then you, so once this 6 pack is finished, I am happily heading to bed
@Diago You easterners, always cutting out of work at lunchtime and going to bed -- of all things! -- before the end of the business day.
(By the way, what's this "time zone" thing people keep talking about?)
@PopularDemand Lolz. I am simply running on UK time.
A: Will we loose quality due to fragmentation?

Lance RobertsI think there is a valid concern about fragmentation. Will the Unix gurus go to ServerFault at all now?

@LanceRoberts Nice one!
I have really lost touch in my time away. Subjective on SU is no longer subjective, spam is no longer spam, and the damn youngster are doing too good a job of moderating.
@Diago I, too, think there is a valid concern about fragmentation. Has automatic scheduled defrag been enabled on all the new servers?
Yes this is truly depressing
@PopularDemand Please post that as an answer. I'll upvote.
5:57 PM
@Diago, I've had a few Unix questions answered on ServerFault, and hope I'll still be able to.
@Diago Thanks, but I don't think a joke answer is really appropriate for that question.
@LanceRoberts It will be interesting to see. However I did post this answer to a similar question on SU.
A: Superuser vs Unix/Linux vs Ubuntu

DiagoUntil those sites come out of Beta, the option is really open at this point. Right now we still welcome Ubuntu/Linux questions, and since the sites may get merged before they are out of beta, SU will still be the most visible point since it is actively indexed and open. Please try avoiding cross...

Also, FWIW, I can't get motivated to visit SU anymore because it seems like every other question is about a specific product.
I haven't been able to get into any of them except SO...
If I refresh the SO new questions, odds are I can answer 1-2 of them... not the case on the other sites.
@Fosco The only way I was going to get anywhere was to get into SU. I missed out on SO and SF. Meta was just pure stupidity on my side
6:01 PM
@Diago by missed out, do you mean just falling behind on reputation?
I've only been on SO for 2 months.. I'm a virtual nobody, but it's still fun.
I thought I'd do better on SU since I used to have a computer business troubleshooting all kinds of things, but I found that I haven't really kept up. I get most of my points answering Excel questions.
@Fosco Yes. I code in .Net and the competition on SO, is well, big.
@LanceRoberts I stopped gaining rep since I became mod. I don't always have time to answer, and most people don't upvote if they see the diamond.
@Fosco In two months you got 3x the rep I earned in 14 months and you are the "nobody"?
@PopularDemand I was about to say the same thing
Hahaha well I see people with 80k, 100k+
6:04 PM
Sometimes I wish I could upvote profiles
> Apologies in advance.. I can be a sarcastic jerk at times.
I'm lucky if I can answer one question a week. Which is why I asked about that side project earlier.
@Diago How'd you do that blockquote?
@Diago, glad you like my profile :)
> > blockquote
> test
@PopularDemand Same as in Markdown?
6:07 PM
I must say... hitting the reputation cap is a fun target for a days work.
@Diago I didn't know they
Hm, the second half of that message just disappeared into the void.
> testing blockquote in a single-line message
testing blockquote in a
> multi-line message
> no rep today.. been in the tavern all day. just that one argument over hibernate
testing blockquote without the space between the angle bracket and text:


Playing around with formatting
6:09 PM
> > my shenanigans are not appreciated :(
Right. Sorry.
I keep forgetting about that room; I can't use the sandbox on MSO anymore because I switched to Chrome.
There are other rooms? No one told me :(
Some test someone posted crashes the browser.
I never get invited to any of the good places.
6:10 PM
@Shog9 lol @ linking the sandbox
4 Invitations in 2 minutes :)
@PopularDemand is that gadget done yet?
@Fosco So help me, I will turn this IDE around!
I am dreading going to work tomorrow and having to reconfigure my VS 2010
I hate hard drive crashes :(
I have so many tweaks and plugins.... It takes a day to get it up and running
6:15 PM
@Diago what kind of tweaks and plugins are you using? I just picked up ReSharper but that's about it...
@Fosco I gotta say though, I'm pretty excited about this. The first time I heard of cron I was just stunned that such a thing could exist.
@Fosco Resharper and I have a love/hate relationship.
My most important plugin is VSVim
@PopularDemand that's awesome Popular.. I can't wait to see it.. very happy you're going to advance and learn something new.
But there is a list of about 20
@PopularDemand Windows has something like that. It's just... baroque
6:17 PM
@Diago I'd like to know more... are the details posted somewhere? :)
@Shog9 +1 vocab
@Fosco I will take some time to post them...... When I do it tomorrow. I don't want to think about it while drinking :)
@Diago thanks!... I have already committed VSVim to memory to install when I get home.. <3 vim
@Fosco Memory? You have a computer!
@Fosco I love it. It's not the full on one available for $99 but it does the same job.
6:18 PM
@PopularDemand correction... i AM a computer.
@Fosco What is it that you compute?
at least that's what my girlfriend says.
@Fosco @PopularDemand No, your referring to Jon Skeet.
a computer? I knew it! I KNEW IT! Look at what happens when you don't protect things with a captcha!
@Badp lol
@badp How do you stop the computer that contains all the CAPTCHA data?
@Diago ty
@PopularDemand , we can't stop God
any following the story about trapped miners in Chile?
6:27 PM
They say that have a 6" tube down to them and can pass messages, food, supplies, etc.
@Shog9 I am too scared to star that. I might cause a stackoverflow on starred items
I wonder if they could pass down some phones...like iPhones or Droids, and an access point/eth. Then these poor guys could at least connect with the outside world for the next 4 months
@Shog9 Why? I hear that all the time, but I've never had any issues with it.
@PopularDemand half-baked
I use Win7 and XP daily
Vista is... almost Win7
I guess it's one of those things where it's okay until you try 7 and find out what you've been missing?
6:31 PM
like a beta that shows promise, but, you wouldn't use it for anything important
The real shortcoming of Vista (shared by Win7, and, well, Win*) is not defaulting to create normal users
@PopularDemand no
UAC is made to let you use your computer as a normal user
@Shog9 Now your looking for trouble. Bash Vista all you want, but leave my Win 7 alone. You'll pry it out of my dying hands I tell you!
Just saying
the default is to have a UAC-castrated admin instead of a UAC-powered user, unfortunately :(
6:33 PM
I installed Vista on a couple of my own machines when it came out, and again when SP1 came out... Went back to XP, too much breakage
Drivers or software incompatibility?
XP was so much better than Vista, I skipped it entirely. 7 is hands-down the best thing Microsoft has ever released.
Ok. Please someone tell me they actually watch True Blood and understand it?
Win7 managed to not break most of my stuff while improving performance (over XP even) and finally adding a proper dock (yay, only took you 20 years to rip off NeXTStep)
Works on my machine (TM)...
6:34 PM
@Fosco, you do realize Seven is practically Vista once the software and hardware industry had some time to catch up...
so I'm fixing this machine with a Vista license, and... omg, it is slow, clunky, and just altogether unpleasant
Seven fixed up some dialogs and added some useful bundled utilites, mostly.
@badp taskbar
after using the 7-style taskbar, I reverted to Vista-style
@badp slightly better search (not great, but actually useful on occasion if you don't remember exactly what you're looking for)
@badp you are insane.
6:35 PM
@badp 7 uses almost 50% less memory and is so much more polished.
Well, being able to reorder buttons is very useful (and also available once you turn labels on)
Uh oh, holy war time....
and 7 did a wonderful job with the "system tray"
@badp ugh.. unlock the 7 taskbar and you can reorder them all day
@Fosco that's the big one. I know I can probably tweak startup services to get 70% of the way there, but... yeah, not gonna do it
@badp oh yeah? do tell...
6:36 PM
7 did a wonderful job by hiding the system tray by default. However, it then decided it should be the application list that should be cluttered by hidden windows like MSN or Skype.
@badp AFAIK, you can re-order the buttons in either mode.
Indeed, @Shog9 (see my edit)
you can show/hide/selectively-show-hide all the system tray icons in 7 however you like.
Sure, and I like them all hidden
TBH I could also hide them all in Vista, but it was too much to keep up with manually
so you like the 7 systray then?
it really came off like you were sarcastic
6:38 PM
@badp ok, well you're touching on a much larger... issue then
However, the idea to move the clutter into the application list is plain horrible
i actually set mine to show all systray icons
that way I keep them in check and don't let my system get cluttered.
most of these programs don't actually have windows most of the time they're running
(skype, chat, whatever)
soon people will catch up and start creating application icons when they used to create systray icons
sure, but Skype and MSN take their icon even when minimized
the clutter is always there, logging off from the service is the only way to make it go away.
managing windows for windowless applications is tricky
that's NOT the problem the new taskbar solves
(it's not the problem the tray solved either, but...)
6:40 PM
no, but that is a problem created by the new tray
if you say so
I like the Ubuntu approach marginally better, but I agree it's a tough usability problem.
right now, I have Outlook, Firefox, Chrome, a pile of Explorer windows, source control, two visual studios, and a couple of chat windows open
excluding the chat windows, I open one or more instances of these programs daily
having a place that'll both launch and switch between these instances and their windows is crucial
<s>Sure, that's not changed since Win95 though.</s>
@badp wtf?
6:42 PM
Whoops, I missed the "launch" bit
okay then -- Win98
"Quick Launch bar"
quicklaunch doesn't count..
@badp which... was a quick way to launch programs
but didn't help with window management at all
Yeah, they were separate and now they are merged
still "pinned apps" don't help managing windows...
So I have about 11 programs that I run regularly. Often enough that I want one-click access to them
but if the icons only launch, then they're worthless most of the time
a complete waste of screen space
Sure, the quick launch bar was a not-so-good idea in retrospective.
6:44 PM
i loved the quick launch bar... lol
and i love 7's new task bar, more so.
so the other thing that we've had in Windows since '95 was this task bar
an icon for every window
Especially because every application and their dog had to put icons in there
but that's exactly what I fear will happen
got 11 apps with avg 2 windows each, that's 22 buttons
so XP did the whole "collapse" thing
when all the people that used to clutter quick launch bars and systrays will start cluttering the app bar instead, like MSN Messenger does
it's going to get ugly.
@badp: YOU manage the app bar
6:46 PM
don't want a persistent icon there? don't add it.
got one you don't like? un-pin it...
durr, MSN Messenger and Skype add a persistent icon while they run
if your chat program wants to put an icon there when it doesn't have any windows, then get a better chat program
(perks up his ears - what now?)
6:47 PM
@badp that's not what persistent means
"if your program wants to put an icon in your system tray, then get a better program"
@MarcGravell go back to sleep, was talking 'bout craptastik skype
@Shog9, okay, but that's exactly my fear
Heh. Hi, Marc!
6:48 PM
There's no need to pin yourself, just launch at startup and create your button
@badp look, i hear you - it's better, but I wouldn't call it great
but at some point, crappy software is crappy software
Skype sucked on XP
yeah, but it'd be better if Microsoft's own software didn't behave like crap <_<
I'm looking at you, MSN Messenger
what stock software?
you started all of this
MSNM is stock?
6:49 PM
I sure don't have it
I wish there was a way to strike out text
ah. Well, again, MSNM is crap. That's why I stopped using it back when i was still running XP.
Oo, a windows discussion. Who would have guessed?
(i think there's something about chat apps that attract script kiddies...)
wanna see a good use of the taskbar? Launch WMP. Main UI is still horrible, but you can keep it minimized and control it via the little pop-up.
Explorer: Pile of windows, but I can still track the progress of a huge copy op via the on-icon progress bar
6:53 PM
(...which only one in ten MS apps use)
or flick down, bounce up, click the window I'm after without having to alt-tab
@badp yeah, MS has lousy internal communication / standards. The ISO-burning tool that (finally...) shipped doesn't use it, and it really, really should
I am going to have to agree with shoggy here. Win 7 and the new task bar really improved.
Well, Vista did have its glaring issues
1. Open Windows Updater
2. Start a check for updates
3. Shrink the window horizontally ALL THE WAY
Yes, eventually the program tries to give the progress bar negative width and crashes, or so it did for me.
6:55 PM
not gonna try that just now...
That's your example of a glaring issue? "Doesn't support shrinking the update window to 0 size"?
We're just talking about Windows Update crashing, what could possibly go wrong :P
@MichaelMrozek point taken, but polish is what people complain about Vista mainly. They're not completely wrong.
@MichaelMrozek it's just laziness: if you're gonna implement resizing, the easy bit is constraining it to a minimum size
@Shog9 Sure, but my day to day usage of Windows isn't affected by the inability to shrink the Windows update window
it's a red flag: someone did the bare minimum to support resizing the internal controls, and went no further
6:57 PM
sh*t happens.. no one thought someone would do that.. heh.
to be fair, Win7 doesn't have this one.
It probably was discovered too late in the WinVista release process, and delayed not to introduce further bugs.
sounds likely
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