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01:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

1:13 AM
I'm considering just stabbing myself:
Q: Community Wiki questions and the subjective close

Lord.QuackstarRecently there has been a large heated discussion about the appropiateness of the question File I/O in Every Programming Language. With (as of this post) 127 upvotes and 116 favorites, the community seems to like this question. However the small amount of 10k's keep opening and reopening it, and ...

1:45 AM
do a little dance
make a little love
get down tonight
(there - now you can stab yourself)
I heard the chat "beep" and walked across the room to see what was said, and was greeted by that
1 hour later…
2:58 AM
You have my deepest sympathy...
(for having passive beeping enabled)
One of my extensions breaks the chat, so I run the chat tab in "incognito mode", a side-effect of which is the beeping mode resets every time I close the tab :(. And then I forget to change it back
2 hours later…
4:30 AM
Hello. How is everyone doing?
2 hours later…
6:22 AM
Did anyone see Seth Priebatsch's recent tedtalk?
Just wondering if anyone has any theories about what the other three game dynamics are...
5 hours later…
11:54 AM
Quiet on here today
I don't get it.
12:11 PM
there are over 6000 people on meta SO that have enough rep to use the chat, thought many more would be using it
You have to be here at the right time.
1 hour later…
1:34 PM
@Ami Interesting. Haven't got a clue yet what the other three are.
1 hour later…
2:42 PM
Heya every one :)
Mornin' (adjust as needed).
oh ... i sense life ....
so what are the chat pearls of this chan :P ?
mmm what we are discussing here recently
2:56 PM
No idea, I haven't really been participating. And given that it's Monday morning US Eastern, probably not much.
:( damn was actually looking forward to some chatting
I was commenting on how quite it was earlier and was surprised how few of the 6000 or so meta users are using the new chat rooms
i guess the publicity around the chats even for the beta want not that big and the fact meta from SO does not work alike the others community meta might affect it aswell
for example the meta from game dev reflects your actual amount of points but the meta from SO does not
@PiersMyers I starred the earlier comment about 30 sec before you posted this one.
@Prix There's a historical reason for that (and I am selfishly happy, because I have more MSO rep than other SE rep put together).
@PopularDemand thanks, second time I've been tagged with a star on this place
3:04 PM
@PopularDemand heheh well i am still not very used to this chats so pardon me :)
@PiersMyers to be fair, most of those users don't even use Meta...
G'day @Shog9.
Just wasted two minutes of my life reading an unfortunate exchange you had on SO that was linked earlier in this room.
@Shog9 yeah, I noticed that - how is this chat system going to be properly stress tested with 1000 users all trying to get a work in edge ways? :)
@PopularDemand HA! Sucks to be you...
@Shog9 Not as much as it sucks to be you, as far as I can tell.
3:09 PM
@PiersMyers there have been more users on at one time... I think Hanselman & Friends showed up one day. Balpha could tell you what the peak is I'm sure.
I'm just glad that I don't know more about VB, or I probably would have been very sad.
@PopularDemand Hey, I had the fun of participating. Er, "fun". Hrm.
@Shog9 @Balpha, price check in aisle three, price check in aisle three.
@PopularDemand That goes without saying. Even if there's no one else around.
@Shog9 Fair 'nuf.
3:11 PM
speaking of which... @balpha, any idea why I keep getting disconnected here? The room just stops updating 'til I do a full refresh
yeah, I'm working on that
Oops, got a notification that time: "problem connecting to the server..."
do you have several tabs open?
should be working fine again after F5
@Shog9 don't know exactly, but 100-150 I think
3:25 PM
@balpha Curious.
msdn is down right now b/c of an IIS misconfiguration
@JSBangs It'd be much funnier if it were down because of an Apache misconfiguration
@MichaelMrozek true
I'm having a difficult time deciding which one would be funnier.
They're funny for different reasons, after all.
3:40 PM
back up now :(
i suppose that means i have to solve my problem and get back to work
A: Some low-rep users cannot post anywhere

Jeff AtwoodApologies for the inconvenience, this was indeed a bug on our end. Fix should now be deployed.

Good bug find: +5. "Yeah, we screwed up, it's fixed now.": +8.
I wonder if the FAQ needs updated for "what voting on Meta means for bug reports."
@PopularDemand Does it mean something special for bug reports?
I upvoted the question because the bug was accurate, and the answer because it was official word of a fix
@MichaelMrozek It has no special meaning that I'm aware of. But I find it weird that the note from Jeff got more upvotes than the actual bug report.
(The fact that you also don't know of a special meaning is heartening.)
test message 1
4:01 PM
test message failed!
@rchern So, what you're saying is, you didn't see it?
Hm, how do I make it so you can see it? Can you see this message?
hehe, i have a friend who happens to be very gullible and I can always get her to fall for it. She never realizes that obviously I saw it if I respond to it, lol.
There was a while, at one office I worked in, where people liked to say "hey, look, someone wrote 'gullible' on the wall over there!"
Then someone actually printed out a sheet of paper reading "GULLIBLE! GULLIBLE! GULLIBLE!" and taped it up on that spot.
So... not sure what to think about that, now.
4:05 PM
If you're curious, I was testing the rep readout.
At least on my machine, it's still showing up as 3873, even though my actual rep is now 3893. But if you mouseover, it brings up 3893. So there's no crazy real-time polling or anything going on.
4:18 PM
Grr, the network admins at work have blocked youtube so I can't watch videos people link :(
They've also blocked any URL containing the word "poker" for some reason, so I can't get into the chat room for the proposed poker stackexchange.
Or even google for anything poker-related for that matter because google puts the search term in the url.
@U62 Oh noes! How will you search for fireplace supplies now?
It is impacting my fire stoking activities. And my BDSM.
@U62 if it's really just the URL, drop the room name
(Or new facebook applications? Or Jappo Kerry's blog, jappokerry.com?) ((Yes, I just completely fabricated that last one.))
as long as the number is correct, you'll enter the room
4:25 PM
Ahh, the joys of rest url schemes...
Blah, the new imgur image functionality makes it more difficult to do images the way I have been.
@balpha Good call. I don't think they can spend a lot of time looking at the proxy logs though, otherwise the amount of time I spend reading engadget and other sites might have come up already :)
4:31 PM
@U62 Shame, shame, shame. I point accusingly and somewhat disapprovingly at you.
@Ikke, I use imaer to automatically upload an image in my clipboard and get the url, so on SE, all I generally did was ctrl+g > ctrl+v > enter and bam!
@U62 actually, the joy of stupid URL filters
I mean, filtering by content is stupid enough, but filtering by URL just calls for a slap on the head
Also, if I have an image on imgur, and I paste the link into the ctrl+g dialog, it will upload the image AGAIN, haha.
gets in the habit of remembering ![](url)
@balpha I can't see any URL that ends with .com (after a slash, of course). So I can't use downforeveryoneorjustme, or Alexa, or things like that. The filter thinks I'm trying to download prohibited .com files.
4:39 PM
@mmyers tried downforeveryoneorjustme.com/stackoverlow%2ecom ?
yet again, mmyers wins the "suckiest work 'net connection" game
Mmm, stackoverlow.
@PopularDemand that site is awesome
interestingly, stackoverflow.com is up
4:39 PM
@balpha Naw, they're smarter than that.
how 'bout downforeveryoneorjustme.com/stackoverflow.com/
downforeveryoneorjustme.com/stackoverflow%2e%63om ?
@Shog9 On the other hand, chat isn't blocked. That was actually a surprise. I suppose they whitelisted *.stackoverflow.com at some point.
@mmyers at least that's a plus on their side
@balpha Actually, sorry, it isn't the filter that gets that URL. It's the fact that DFEOJM (is that their shorthand version?) redirects to the .com page.
4:45 PM
@mmyers If that is their shorthand version, it needs its own shorthand. It looks like a military unit.
@Shog9 Since you said "again," I have to ask: when has @mmyers won the game before?
@PopularDemand pretty sure mmyers is the one who can't view images
any images
because each image host would have to be whitelisted
so all the unicorns and hand-drawn circles? Nada for Mr. M. Myers
his life is bereft of all joy and syrup
No, imgur isn't blocked. I suspect IT reads Reddit or something.
And other than that, it's only image-*hosting* sites that are blocked. I can see gravatars and such with no problem.
I think I do remember someone who wasn't allowed any images at all, but it wasn't me.
I'm... sorry I asked.
So many workplaces suck. The top 500 SO users should band together and form an elite global consultancy.
5:10 PM
@U62 They could name it "Fog Creek Software."
@PopularDemand I said global
@U62 I don't understand why you say that.
"Fog Ocean Software"
Fog Creek is a US company. It has (as far as I'm aware) no plans to expand overseas. hell, Joel doesn't even like people workout outside of their NYC office. I appreciate your joke, but Fog Creek isn't the kind of company you'd get if you put the top 500 SO users together.
btw. I haven't actually checked, but I'm probably not in the top 500 myself anyway. It's just an idea
@Shog9 "Iceberg in a Foggy Ocean Software." Boom! The phases of matter trifecta!
5:23 PM
The only thing you can do is keep putting your resume out there until you find a company that doesn't suck.
@U62 I was confusing Fog Creek and Stack Overflow, I guess.
I guarantee such companies exist. The only thing standing between you and a job with one of them is persistence and determination. Ironically, these are the exact traits that these companies seek.
@ErickRobertson eh? I googled "Fog Ocean Software" - if they do exist, they suck at doing web pages.
@Shog9 their web page was on geocities, they forgot to backup in time
I wasn't talking about Fog Ocean. I was talking about companies that don't suck.
5:38 PM
what criteria would make a company not suck?
I've only read one job advert in the last 4 years (since I started where I'm working now) that's made me think "that's a place I'd really like to work". But I didn't apply because I'm not really qualified for it, at least at the moment.
Good benefits, good pay, good bonuses, skilled co-workers, inspiring leadership.
In no particular order.
plus unrestricted web access as well I suppose
@U62, I think it would be a waste of their talents if all they did was consultancy. They should work on solving the biggest problems in CS, develop new programming paradigms, etc.
Being able to work on something that isn't insanely dull and pointless scores points in my book. Sadly that wipes out most business software development :)
5:43 PM
I agree with that. I don't care so much about the unrestricted web access so long as I can do my job.
@ErickRobertson (if you hover your mouse cursor over the right side of a post, a little icon appears that'll let you indicate the context for a reply)
@Shog9 Like this?
@ErickRobertson that's the trick!
interesting chat interface
I actually may steal the hell out of that feature.
@Ami It's a fair point. I'm just thinking of a way that talented developers could earn a living and not be managed by empty suits that feel coming up with restrictive internet policies is somehow contributing.
5:46 PM
@Shog9 please refrain from causing infinite recursion
@ErickRobertson It's my understanding that it's based on Twitter.
@U62 You're just bitching at this point. If you put this energy into your job...
On second thought, chat does that automatically now. Crap.
@Shog9 @Shog9... whoooooaaaaa.
@PopularDemand you mean they hacked it in after the fact based on horrible work-arounds for missing functionality devised and implemented by their rabid userbase?
5:48 PM
@BoltClock I am curious to know what was removed automatically
it wasn't
he deleted it
@ErickRobertson I hope you're joking. You don't know anything about me or my job.
@PiersMyers When I simply type @<name>, chat seems to automatically know and highlight which message I replied to. I deleted it myself.
@U62 I can recognize bitching.
@BoltClock it just picks the last message by that person
no rocket science there :)
5:49 PM
@balpha ah, well :X
@BoltClock say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
Never mind :)
Okay, nope.
Oh, that's what @balpha said.
While I was typing my test.
There's never going to be an SO, Inc. product on which I won't be FGIWed, is there?
@PopularDemand Yeah, that's gotta be my favorite part of "replies". I AM A TRAVELER OF TIME AND SPACE!
@PopularDemand yeah, you can even reply to something that was said after your reply!
5:51 PM
@Shog9 I already blew my mind last week by replying to myself. This is just... I can't handle this.
oddly enough, self-replies didn't work originally - you just got the # in front of your post
wasn't something I expected to see fixed (since it's impossible to do it "accidentally"), but hey, cool...
@ErickRobertson You can beat them to the punch with a superior feature, actually: select the message to which you wish to reply by pressing <kbd>Up arrow</kbd>.
So........... is anyone here working actively toward a particular badge, or badges?
No. Badges suck.
@BoltClock [Fanatic].
5:52 PM
yeah, up arrow quoting - and highlight them in the list as you up arrow
@PopularDemand: 2 more days for me. Only on main SO though.
@ErickRobertson It's constructive blue-sky thinking! And if it was bitching, what makes you think that putting more effort into my job would make it better. How do you know that my job isn't a complete dead-end?
@BoltClock (resists urge to type, "we don't need no steenkin'...")
wait, you can use the up arrow to scroll through messages to reply to?
@BoltClock Ugh, I broke off at 70 or so when I moved and couldn't get Internet service quickly enough.
5:53 PM
@U62 no one else thought you were bitching
@rchern that would be cool...
@U62, oppressive managemerial restrictions reflect a fundamental disconnect that exists between programmers and non-programmers. People who aren't involved in programming have a notion that programming is some elaborate form of data-entry...very sad.
@Shog9 we don't need no stinkin' "we don't need no stinkin'..." replies (recurse as necessary)!
@rchern No, but it was proposed as a feature request last week.
@Ami to be fair, I thought he was bitchin'
5:53 PM
@BoltClock I'm working towards the "Do Jon Skeet's Mom" badge
@PopularDemand Ah. I thought you were saying you currently could.
@rchern Sadly, no.
@U62 I'm sorry. Please ignore my dose of reality.
OK, time to test the "hide user" feature
5:54 PM
I was just about ready to give @balpha a gold star for a keyboard shortcut
Conference call over! Time for lunch!
... what the icosahedrons?
Has anyone else gotten a weird dose of HTML when posting a message?
@PopularDemand yeah, it's the "Stack Overflow is currently offline for maintenance" message. Weird.
kicks the tubes
the tubes fall apart
6:00 PM
Yah, pretty much.
@Shog9 I just saw that when trying to enter a new room. But the first time it happened, the source code of the offline page was appended to my message.
@PopularDemand Screenshotted. I guess it's not a real bug though.
@PopularDemand yeah, that's what I was referring to. Then seconds later, the whole page locked
See, if they'd built this on an IRC back-end, this would never happen.
@Shog9 I just got that message when refreshing chat a few mins ago.
(we'd just get silently disconnected and end up talking to ourselves in small groups without any indication that half the users were gone)
6:03 PM
in Chat feedback, Aug 16 at 18:08, by Popular Demand
@shog9 I thought about that before and I can't remember why I disliked it. I'd just have it go up one message per keypress, though; maybe somehow highlight the one you're on. If it's your own, it'll allow edit; if not, it'll be a reply.
bah. Offline again...
bah. Offline again...
kicks the pumps
pumps spray web juice all over George
Three people just left simultaneously. I'm suspicious
If this chat is susceptible to netsplits I may cry
6:07 PM
swears loudly
@MichaelMrozek shouldn't anymore
@MichaelMrozek somewhere, minimized, three browser windows are displaying huge drop-down "problem contacting the server" banners
there was a brief period today with a bug in the JS, so if someone picked that up...
@balpha Achoo.
@BoltClock: can't help but notice you haven't edited out the "new to programming" bit... ;-)
6:10 PM
@Shog9: I forgot about the question lol, was thinking about the browser engine one where there was a close/reopen war.
@Shog9: I'll just leave this one as it is though. Never mind.
Interesting, downvotes no longer count toward rep cap. One of my answers was downvoted but apparently I got back +2 as part of an upvote.
@BoltClock A close/reopen war within your own mind, for that matter
@BoltClock That was fixed ages ago, before I even started on SO I think
Unfortunately, it doesn't work if you get upvoted when you're at the cap and then get downvoted. So if you're going to post something stupid, do it early in the day
whoa... I just got three upvotes within about a minute... someone's been linking
@Shog9 Where? Where? I wanna upvote too!
@BoltClock I missed that one. What an absurd question!
@PopularDemand NO!
Someone went through my profile once and upvoted two or three answers that were at 9 votes so I got a bunch of Nice Answer badges. I felt kind of bad about that
6:16 PM
I haven't received a Nice Answer badge for this yet. Longest it's taken to get here so far.
A: What to call part of a url

BoltClockThe URI (Uniform Resource Identifier) is the entire string. Also note that URL (Uniform Resource Locator) and URI are not the same; URL is a subset of URI. See Wikipedia's article for information. In your example, /me/friends is known as the path.

@BoltClock How long has it been/were you short one beforehand?
@PopularDemand are you referring to another 10+-score answer I had which is now gone?
@BoltClock Yes.
@PopularDemand can't remember, I only checked when I realized I didn't earn it for this answer.
Would that be the reason?
@BoltClock Could be. Let's go to the videotape!
According to the tape -- okay, your SO user profile -- you have 12 Nice Answer badges and 12 answers currently at 10 or greater. So, you're not going to get another badge.
You must have hit 10 with a previous answer that got downvoted, or that was attached to a question which got deleted.
The system lets you keep your badge(s) in cases like this but doesn't give you any more until you "make up" for the one(s) you "lost."
6:24 PM
@PopularDemand: OK, got it. So basically, it takes into account how many 10+ answers I have online...
    if(numNiceAnswerBadges < numAnswersWithScoreOfTenOrMore)
Nice, code formatting works.
@BoltClock I figured a 7k user would approve.
@PopularDemand was that 14th vote from you?
No, I didn't even know someone else upvoted it.
6:31 PM
Fair enough, I was just curious ;)
Actually I upvoted the other answer, since it was posted at about the same time and was 10 behind you. I figured you had enough.
Me too.
That actually brings up something I wonder about every once in a while: do people tend to cast their votes in a vacuum, or do they think "this deserves a score of 12, and right now it's at 7 so I'll upvote it, but if it were at 15 I wouldn't"?
Probably belongs in the Meta room and not The Tavern, though.
@PopularDemand There was a meta post about not showing vote counts to try and avoid people doing that exact thing
@MichaelMrozek I don't suppose you have it handy?
6:36 PM
@PopularDemand probably. I tend to vote based on the other answers
@PopularDemand No; I searched for it, but I can't find it now
@MichaelMrozek No problem, I'll look for it myself.
Kind of hard to think of a good search keyword though.
This one?
Q: Should I see how other people voted after I cast a vote?

Lucas This is an idea I just had and I would like to know what you guys think about it. How about showing votes and order the answers ONLY after a vote has been casted. Sometimes answers that come late are not voted up, because they are simply not as visible or people just bother to read the really hig...

I don't think that's the one I read, but it's the same discussion
It was proposed earlier in an answer...
A: 6 simple tips to get Stack Overflow reputation fast

John FouhyRegarding #2, what if you hide votes for the 10 minutes or so? By "hide", I mean: people can vote, but answers will appear to have 0 score (and time-based sort order) until the 10 minutes are up. You could even hide timestamps and randomize display order for the initial window, though I'm not s...

I rather suspect it's shown up a few times in a similar fashion: folks looking for a "solution" to the FGITW "problem" and ignoring everything else
Breaking the sorting-by-votes feature just to hide the number of votes seems like a pretty terrible idea
6:44 PM
it is a pretty terrible idea
it fixes the game, but in doing so makes it less useful as anything but a game
(which was really my biggest complaint with that entire wretched blog post)
@Shog9 I have all new respect for you because of "Waffles are pancakes WITH BUILT-IN SYRUP RESERVOIRS!"; too bad comments don't have permalinks.
(But if anyone cares, third comment on
A: 6 simple tips to get Stack Overflow reputation fast

Michael StumTo be perfectly honest, I absolutely agree with #3. A bit of formatting Makes the post more readable proves that the user put a bit of effort into it prevents the "Wall of Text crits you" effect stands out allows me to spot important points more easily puts some structure into the posting And...

brb, melting from cute overload
I like the most recent edit here:
If he's going to go through every post that refers to Stack Overflow as "SO", it's going to take a while
@MichaelMrozek I was just thinking that!
He must need the editing badges.
6:54 PM
@BoltClock You're doing it wrong! See here:
Q: The Offical StackOverflow Bunny

Chacha102To Whom this may concern, I, Chacha, would like to ask the community of StackOverflow to acknowledge the following bunny as the official StackOverflow bunny. This bunny has been responsible for many funny threads, and has been involved in countless efforts to bring laughter to the programming wo...

I need to find that meta post asking what Jeff looks like so I can paste this:
@MichaelMrozek It's from the one I just posted.
Whoop, never mind, misread.
@PopularDemand The image? I know, that's where I got it :)
@MichaelMrozek pretty sure it was closed, and likely deleted
Looks like it -_-
6:57 PM
Closed only:
Q: Does anyone know what Jeff Atwood REALLY looks like?

studiohackDoes anyone know what Jeff Atwood really looks like? Never seen any photos or anything...Wondering if he is just a waffle or maybe a unicorn? :P

"closed as noise or pointless by Jeff Atwood♦" HAHAHAHAHHA
@MichaelMrozek was that before or after the VC money? ;p
Wow; why do I suck so much at meta searching
@MarcGravell before
this is after:
01:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

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