Tavern on the Meta

Moshe

6:00 PM

Anyone know of a regex to filter dirty words?

radp

@Tim It's not their choice :/

Popular Demand

@Tim Starred... though that'd require XP users to upgrade to 7, which is kind of a bigger deal.

radp

@Moshe s:/ass/butt/g

Moshe

@radp - just put em all in like that with slashes?

radp

er, I linked to something there

it's not a regexp really, it's a vim command

6:01 PM

@radp - my bad

@PopularDemand Yeah, that's true. IE 8 would be an acceptable compromise, if they have to stick with IE.

@radp Well, it's weird because it actually is in my case (to some degree)

The companies don't have any reason to stick with IE 6, and have Vista and Windows 7 computers with IE 7 / 8..they just don't bother upgrading their XP computers that came with IE 6

Moshe

@radp @PopularDemand- lol.

radp

@Tim oh, so the "our legacy systems only work with IE6" argument doesn't really hold any water?

Moshe

@radp - I wouldn't filter, but put them into a moderator queue.

@Tim - I was just asked by a school recently to handle network stuff. All XP OEM systems and IE6

They were keeping young kids offline by manually entering bad IP addresss and no gateway

Tim

6:05 PM

@radp Doesn't seem to, for once.

Moshe

@Tim - wow. [CSS3 rounded corners]

Okay, I'm out. Going to try to craft the next big viral app and test App Engine's alleged "scaleablity".

Tim

@Moshe Heh, I'm always amused at the lengths that schools go to as far as trying to restrict network access

balpha

oh, it does scale alright :)

handled April 1st on SO like nothing

Moshe

@Tim - Yep. Except the kids still can't figure it out. They are that innocent. @balpha - good to hear. Thanks folks.

balpha

sure

radp

6:09 PM

@balpha For when I'll deploy the service online, does the uploader care about where I put dependencies?

balpha

you mean like python libraries?

radp

yeah, like pyStackExchange

I don't think Google have those inbuilt.

balpha

no, just make sure python finds them to import. google doesn't care.

radp

Okay, let me rephrase the question

what does bulkloader.py upload to google?

balpha

everything

radp

6:11 PM

So it hunts for the required dependencies "wherever" I may have put them?

Moshe

@balpha - I just put everything in the directory that the loader generates for me

balpha

@radp well, it doesn't pull them from site-packages if that's what you mean

they have to be in the app dir

radp

(so long as they are visible when I run the engine from dev_appserver.py)

balpha

(or a subfolder)

radp

oh, okay, so if I have the app stuff in google_appengine/TrafficLeft and the libraries in google_appengine/PyStackExchange it won't work.

balpha

6:13 PM

no

but that should not work with the dev server either, does it?

radp

It did work with the dev server.

balpha

interesting

radp

Well, it does look in the working path, right?

balpha

well, take everything I say with a pinch of salt; it's a) been a while since I looked at SDK upgrades, and b) I have never written a hugely complex app for the app engine

Moshe

Ok, I'm back.

radp

6:15 PM

if I launch python dev_appserver.py TrafficLeft/, the library folders are in ./ so I guess they are found regardless :)

anyway, I moved the two libraries into the app folder and everything kept working :)

balpha

but I thought the dev server is sandboxed in a way that it would only let you import stuff that's also availabe online

well, almost, anyway

radp

Yeah, I think it is

But then you can make libs available to you by uploading them along with the rest, so long as they don't write to disk and the such

Moshe

@radp - quick! use this flaw to exploit IE6 before Google or MS stop you.

When using <form></form> in a Django template, how do I set up a second .py file to react to the form entry? (Or do I not need a second one?)

balpha

it doesn't matter how many py files you have

radp

er, how do you revert a git add operation?

balpha

6:18 PM

@Moshe you just need a request handler class that handles the post/get request

radp

The libraries have their own repositories so I shouldn't have included them in mine :)

Moshe

@balpha - So I add a handler to the yaml file and then action="/handler"?

balpha

yes

and also add it to the setup call

48 mins ago, by radp

def main():
  application = webapp.WSGIApplication(
    	[	('/',	MainHandler),
    		('/update/', 	UpdateHandler)
    	],
    	debug=True)
  util.run_wsgi_app(application)

@radp sorry -- I can only tell you how to do it in mercurial :)

radp

would it be hg rm?

balpha

that would also delete the actual files

hg forget will just un-add

radp

6:22 PM

yeah, that's my problem.

Moshe

@radp - stackoverflow.com/questions/348170/undo-git-add

@balpha - the second parenthesis in the update handles the form? ('/update/', UpdateHandler)

radp

thanks

balpha

@Moshe notice the brackets -- that's just a list of all handlers

a list of 2-tuples (regex_string, HandlerClass)

Moshe

ok

radp

yeah, that thing looks better with elastic tabstops

it's a pity GEdit's elastic tabstop plugin lags things out pretty badly past line 60

Moshe

6:27 PM

@balpha - I'm confused now.

Say I want to show a "thanks" page when my form is submitted.

So I add the form to my app.yaml file...

- url: /submit
  script: main.py

Then I change my def main()

`application = webapp.WSGIApplication(
[ ('/', MainPage),
('/submit', SubmitHandler)
],
debug=True)`

What does submit.py look like?

balpha

[remember to strip the debug=True in the end] :)

radp

hrm, it so happens I can't just create apps via appcfg.py :)

Moshe

@balpha can I change it to debug=False?

balpha

@Moshe well, first of all, your app.yaml has to say

oops

Moshe

oops?

balpha

6:32 PM

sorry, edited your post up there

Moshe

:P

oh

how do you get the multiline code view, btw?

balpha

click the "fixed font" button

Moshe

ok

balpha

(only appears when you have several lines)

Moshe

so, I need to change my app.yaml

ok done.

then?

balpha

6:33 PM

well, SubmitHandler is just a python class

Moshe

so I just make another python class that runs when the submit is called?

And so I'm using a single Python file to handle various output pages?

balpha

1 hour ago, by radp

class UpdateHandler(webapp.RequestHandler):
  def get(self):
    #do stuff
    self.response.out.write("write reply here")

@Moshe you can, you don't have to

you can also just import the class from a different file

as long as it's available here:

application = webapp.WSGIApplication(
[	('/',	MainPage),
('/submit', SubmitHandler)
])

otherwise, you get an error

Moshe

So i can make "submit.python" and then import SubmitHandler from submit.py?

(I got that "from... wrong"...)

balpha

sure

Moshe

is that line of code right?

from submit.py?

balpha

6:36 PM

from submit import SubmitHandler

Moshe

ah

So I leave of the .py and and reverse my original code. I see.

Cool.

balpha

alternative:

Moshe

I'm listening.

balpha

import submit

and then

...
('/submit', submit.SubmitHandler)
...

radp

@balpha, the EULA for GAppEngine says that if my app goes over quota, I'll be charged money. The other material about GAppEngine instead said that there's no way to go over quota if you aren't a paying customer... which one is right? :)

balpha

6:38 PM

I think there has recently been some changes to their model, so I wouldn't trust my word here

radp

well, are there ways to audit your use of resources anyway?

> 4.2. A bill will be issued to your online account for all charges accrued in excess of the Fee Threshold. For use of the Service in excess of any portion of the Fee Threshold, you shall be responsible for all charges up to the amount set in your online account, and shall pay all charges in U.S. Dollars or in such other currency as agreed to in writing by the parties.

balpha

have they totally stripped the free accounts?

radp

from their ToS

however, this other page says

balpha

unicornify is still working, so is notarealquestion, but maybe I got grandfathered in

radp

> Each App Engine application can consume a certain level of computing resources for free, controlled by a set of quotas. Developers who want to grow their applications beyond these free quotas can do so by enabling billing for their application and using Google Checkout to set a daily resource budget, which will allow for the purchasing of additional resources if and when they are needed.

> App Engine will always be free to get started, and after you've enabled billing for your app all usage up to the free quotas will remain free.

balpha

6:41 PM

yeah, that's the model I'm used to

you get your free quotas

and if you exceed them, the app just starts throwing errors

radp

oh. phew. I'd rather have the errors.

Moshe

@radp - ditto that.

balpha

just don't enable billing -- that's all

radp

I mean, the whole point of my app is having something polling the API every hour, since I don't have the hardware to. :)

balpha

btw, unicornify has it's datastore filled up to the 1GB quota

so everytime I try to store, it throws an exception

Moshe

6:44 PM

@balpha - so what happens next? EDIT: Ah.

balpha

but since the datastore is used only for second-level caching, I happily throw that exception away :)

Moshe

hey, whats the parenthesis after the class name for?

As in: class MainPage(webapp.RequestHandler)

balpha

that's the parent class

Moshe

ah

balpha

MainPage is a subclass of webapp.RequestHandler

Moshe

6:47 PM

so SubmitHandler needs to have the same parenthesis?

balpha

yes

Moshe

ok cool

balpha

(or a subclass thereof)

Moshe

I'm going for the multiple files route - modular but more prone to breakage.

Yaaayyy ... breakage!

ok, I'm stuck again

Maybe it's because I lied.

I didn't go with the multi file bit

I tried adding another class in the original file

NameError: name 'webbapp' is not defined

balpha

One b too much

Moshe

6:58 PM

ugh

and when I try importing from a second file, it says that webapp is undefined

balpha

yes, you need to from google.appengine.ext import webapp everywhere you need it

python's namespacing is a little bit different than C's

Moshe

i got it

user151055

SO should include an option to add people on the site and see them when the are online

balpha

@fahad ?

user151055

yes

balpha

7:08 PM

that's "?" as in "I don't understand"

radp

In other news, no, the app uploader doesn't hunt for dependencies

<type 'exceptions.ImportError'>: No module named simplejson
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/base/data/home/apps/trafficleft/1.345243381181150328/main.py", line 22, in <module>
    import core
  File "/base/data/home/apps/trafficleft/1.345243381181150328/core.py", line 1, in <module>
    from PyStackExchange import stackexchange
  File "/base/data/home/apps/trafficleft/1.345243381181150328/PyStackExchange/stackexchange.py", line 2, in <module>
    from stackweb import WebRequestManager

balpha

import that from django

from django.utils import simplejson

radp

I'll do that when I'll reboot back into Linux

balpha

django is preinstalled on the appengine

user151055

@balph:Oh,I mean that that the people online should be displayed somewhere so we can communicate with each other

balpha

7:10 PM

what's "online" for you?

radp

Very helpful as always, @balpha. Thank you :)

user151055

connected to the site..?

balpha

what site?

what's "connected"?

user151055

SO,I mean those who are there and have opened SO should be displayed

balpha

"have opened SO" -- what do you mean by that?

and how would you want to communicate with them anyway?

user151055

7:14 PM

Online chat

balpha

ahh, so you're looking for people who are connected to the chat?

what about this page: chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/users?tab=online&sort=recent

user151055

I mean those who are connected to the site,do you think everyone will be familiar with this chat room?

balpha

let me ask you once again: what do you mean by "connected to the site"?

Moshe

@balpha - Mind elaborating on the import in Python vs C?

@balpha - I think @fahad wants something like FB chat. See who else is online, offer the ability to chat instead of posting a question.

balpha

not a C guru here -- but python pretty much knows nothing until you import something. and that's in each file by itself

user151055

7:18 PM

Who have opened stackoverflow at this moment are connected

balpha

define "have opened stackoverflow"

user151055

@Moshe:definitely

balpha

we're talking about a simple website here

stateless HTTP

user151055

FB chat is a nice example

balpha

there is no "have opened"

Moshe

7:19 PM

@balpha - If you are logged in and have not yet closed your browser or left the site, you "have opened" SO

user151055

And your propabally connected too

balpha

so the browser should tell stackoverflow when I close the tab, and then publicise "balpha isn't looking at any so page anymore"? no thanks :)

Moshe

@balpha - right, i was just clarifying the request

balpha

@fahad once. again. what is "connected" for you?

Moshe

@balpha - I think he meant signed in.

user151055

7:21 PM

yes

balpha

being signed in doesn't say anything

I don't think anyone ever signs out

Moshe

@balpha - I know. Just clarifying.

balpha

@Moshe gotcha

user151055

We should have something like FB chat ...

balpha

no

user151055

7:22 PM

this is "In a nutshell"

balpha

stack overflow is for questions and answers

Moshe

@fahad - the problem is knowing when someone logs in or off is a privacy concern. Additionally, that is what the chat.se sites are for.

user151055

we can have faster Q/A while chatting

balpha

you said "yes" to this:

> I think @fahad wants something like FB chat. See who else is online, offer the ability to chat instead of posting a question.

the good thing about the Q&A format is:

it can help other people too

not only you

user151055

hmm I agree to that

Moshe

7:26 PM

@Fahad - comments are similar to chat anyway, except they have a time limit to prevent spam.

user151055

@Moshe:But its too slow....

Moshe

So that's why we're here ;-)

welcome to chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/89/the-tavern-general

user151055

Haha...

Moshe

Anyone ever had luck putting a paypal donate button on their webpage?

Lasse V. Karlsen

Do you mean "had luck in managing to get the button to work" or "had luck in someone actually donating money"? :)

Moshe

7:28 PM

got money from it

;)

balpha

maybe try flattr

it's the hot new thing :)

Moshe

?

balpha

combine a paypal donate button and amazon one-click, and you get flattr

Moshe

@balpha - where did you find that?

balpha

flattr.com

Moshe

7:30 PM

I found that, but how did you hear of it?

balpha

it's gotten some traction in the free software community

Moshe

Why?

Just use PayPal.

balpha

flattr is easier. so more people click, I guess :)

I've never used it myself, though -- so don't take this as a recommendation

It's also kinda of a give-and-take model

I think you have to at least charge your account, if not donate yourself, to be eligible to receive donations

radp

The problem is, the more you click the less you give

Moshe

I see.

balpha

7:36 PM

on a side note, if anyone here is using my threaded-comments or comment-reply greasemonkey script, you should update

I did some some bugfixing today

Moshe

And PayPal has more clicks than flattr?

radp

I wish Chrome's aggressive updating worked for greasemonkey too

@balpha link?

balpha

userscripts.org/scripts/source/71948.user.js

userscripts.org/scripts/source/68252.user.js

radp

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/31028/… is either a dupe or a question that needs your answer

balpha

I tend to not spam my add-ons to feature requests :)

radp

7:38 PM

@balpha fair enough

balpha

and I still agree that threaded comments shouldn't be the default

even though it's my favorite add-on

Moshe

Time to introduce user preferences?

balpha

also, though it works quite well, it obviously can't be perfect

since there's no real threading information

(unlike on twitter for example)

radp

twitter's implementation also isn't greatest

I've wanted a few times to reply to my own tweets

I guess that's status-bydesign so multi-tweeting doesn't works properly, encouraging you to stay in 160 chars

Moshe

Hey, quick question - Anyone know about Adobe Licenses?

Is it legal to split the purchase of an Adobe Product with someone?

balpha

7:51 PM

lol, now that I look at it, I actually have spammed my add-on to this feature request

> See my Greasemonkey script here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/43055/… – balpha♦ ↵ Mar 21 at 14:24

Lasse V. Karlsen

How/where does the threaded comment script work?

balpha

everywhere and mathoverflow

Moshe

?

Lasse V. Karlsen

Where can I see it in action?

Moshe, licenses are personal

Moshe

@LasseVKarlsen So can't say, split it with someone and we each use one activation?

@balpha - what is link to that original post. I want to read that whole "russia" thread.

Shog9

8:02 PM

14

A: Should we have a policy about "too much downvoting"?

You're worried there's too much down-voting. Neil's worried there's too much up-voting. Maybe there's just too much voting? When SO was young, it was important that each user be able to really spread the love so to speak; now, there are lots and lots of users who can and do vote. Maybe it's ...

radp

No, it just makes it harder for newer users to get rep

Shog9

uh, that was the link that Moshe asked for - there, added the little arrow dealy

Michael Mrozek

@Shog9 Too late, you've invited argument now

Moshe

@radp - I asked for that link. Forget it.

Shog9

@MichaelMrozek fair enough - new users don't need rep

Michael Mrozek

8:04 PM

Note to self: Write a greasemonkey script that detects oneboxes containing Shog9 posts, and automatically reply with "that sounds wrong"

Moshe

@radp - I wanted to read the comments

You're worried there is too many daily votes. Some people worried there is too less daily votes and posting feature requests to raise. May be Jeff's idea is to get less claim emails about those after all? – S.Mark Mar 18 at 2:57
9

@S.Mark: if Jeff's hoping to reduce the number of emails as the sites continue to grow in popularity, I'm afraid he's in for some serious disappointment... – Shog9 Mar 18 at 3:00

Ironic how following your example (what you said in the comment of the top answer) I downvoted your post =) – Kop Mar 18 at 3:02

Shog9

@MichaelMrozek need more bots!

radp

@Moshe ?

Michael Mrozek

I'm a little depressed that there are no bots in here, actually

radp

@MichaelMrozek Bots need to get rep first

Moshe

8:05 PM

@radp - That's what I wanted to read, I asked for the link so I could read the comments.

Michael Mrozek

Yeah, but 20 rep isn't particularly onerous. And they could share the owner's account I suppose, although that would be slightly confusing

radp

@Moshe It's okay, I still get to speak my mind :)

Moshe

@radp - Nope, You get to speak the Party's mind.

;-)

radp

(if I could be downvoted here I would now have a chance for the silver version of peer pressure)

Moshe

@radp - Okaayy... How's app Engine going?

radp

8:09 PM

@Moshe I'd love to have the option to download my code from the App Engine now that I must be on Windows until this game I need to register the result for ends.

I don't think I can though

Moshe

Try DropBox.

balpha

or jQuery

radp

@Moshe For code I'd much rather use GitHub or jQuery ;)

Moshe

jQuery for code downloading?

radp

sure

$.clone("jquery.com/repos.jQ")

Moshe

8:10 PM

what does that download?

$("*.txt").commit()

I'm lost.

Except that you seem to be sharing jQuery-ized svn commands

radp

@Moshe doxdesk.com/updates/2009.html#u20091116-jquery

balpha

8:12 PM

jQuery is best quality code ever, if you don't use your a idiot

Moshe

But how does that do SVN stuff?

balpha

it's a joke, @Moshe :)

Moshe

oh ok

my bad

and whose site is doxdesk?

I didnt think jQuery could do uploading and whatnot...

balpha

do you know the famous "Parse HTML with regex" answer?

radp

@Moshe bobince's

Moshe

8:13 PM

ah

hang on

balpha

3891

A: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool th...

radp

stackoverflow.com/users/18936/bobince

what happened to user oneboxes?

balpha

good question

stackoverflow.com/users/18936/bobince

hmm

radp

wow, 20 upvotes for this?

wtf.

Shog9

@radp Just goes to show, once folks expect transparency, even the hint that something shady is happening behind the scenes can make them uneasy.

radp

8:18 PM

It's undeserved rep like this that makes me want to throw up a bounty

Shog9

On Meta? Don't be silly.

balpha

API is returning 500 when retrieving user tags: api.stackoverflow.com/1.0/users/18936/tags?pagesize=7

that's why it's not oneboxed

radp

Getting rep is too easy on meta

I tried a +250 bounty on the FOSS advertisement column but I didn't get quality entries

balpha

@radp inflation takes care of that

meta rep isn't worth anything :)

radp

@balpha You mean you're going to raise all reqs by 10fold?

any rep above 3k isn't really useful tbh

mod tools are nice to have but not life changing

Chacha102

8:27 PM

Hello

Shog9

goodeveninghowdoyouDO!

Chacha102

it isn't evening..

even for New Yorkers..

Moshe

Nope, not evening in NY yet

Chacha102

damn New Yorkers should never get evening..

should just have eternal sunshine..

Moshe

@chcha102 - hey! Don't insult NY.

Chacha102

8:29 PM

so they can never sleep..

Moshe

lol

sleep?

Chacha102

@Moshe Yes?

Moshe

jk

Is <quote> still standard HTML?

Chacha102

no..

Moshe

I'm a bit out of touch.

Chacha102

8:30 PM

<blockquote> is..

right, my bad

hello!

hello, @maxim!

hi @moshe!

@Chacha102 <blockquote> is standard html?

Moshe

Anyone know of a script to add CSS rounded corner support in IE6-8?

Michael Mrozek

9:05 PM

I recall there being some sort of black magic javascript that added missing features to IE like alpha channels in images, but I don't know if it did rounded corners

Shog9

2

Q: Pure CSS Rounded Corners in IE6-8 (JQuery Accepted)

There are a lot of JQuery plugins to give rounded corners to browsers that dont support CSS3. They either don't work or have an ugly effect where you see it unstyled, and then the JS kicks in and finally makes them rounded. I am looking for a solution that renders rounded corners before visibili...