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1:25 AM
Hey, what do you call a flying hot dog?
@TheUnhandledException - I sent you an email about hosting, but I got no response.
 
1:48 AM
@Moshe Yes, my apologies! Things have been really crazy. I will respond tomorrow.
 
2:16 AM
@TheUnhandledException thanks.
 
Jeff is still going crazy on deletions, I can't believe that Meta has any posts left.
I sure hate the rate-limiting for Undelete votes.
 
I'm still not sure why he deletes MSO posts at all, it seems like by and large they should stay around. Naturally lots of them are no longer relevant if they refer to things that are no longer true, but that's like deleting bugs from bugzilla after you've marked them closed
 
It's like he's trying to make it look like SO never had bugs.
 
2:58 AM
What is all this about deletions?
I saw your three messages, didn't think much of it, then saw a bunch of comments about comments being deleted.
 
I don't know about the comments, right now I'm trying to catch up on the NTI debate.
The deletions I was referring to were just standard Jeff deleting posts that he though were no longer relevant, instead of letting the community delete them (or not).
 
Aarobot was saying that a bunch of his comments were getting deleted here, but that's unrelated
 
Ah. Never mind then, I guess.
 
3:19 AM
@MichaelMrozek yeh, I was just reading that, sure wish 10k's could see deleted comments.
I hate it when I miss the busy days.
 
I still can't see the deleted posts, so I lose :(
 
Tim
4:08 AM
Hmm...next time I leave a task to run for x minutes, I should probably remember to look at the clock when I start it.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:08 AM
@Tim yep.
 
5:59 AM
anyone here got high enough rep on programmers to see a deleted question?
My question got deleted before I could see the answer, and all I get is the first tantalising words in the inbox :(
 
 
3 hours later…
8:39 AM
@Benjol you can upvote 7 answers of mine, and I'll be able to see them :-)
 
8:49 AM
@PavelShved, hm, I'll look and see if any of them are worth upvoting :)
 
@Benjol for your convenience, I suggest you to skip reading CW answers then.
 
9:05 AM
ok :)
actually, I discover that my openid provider has been blocked here, so I can't log into sites that I haven't previously logged into from here... don't expect any new votes for the time being :)
 
@Benjol Can't you use global login? :)
 
Don't know... how
 
just, uh, visit the site and repeat three times LOCAL STORAGE WEB TWO DOT OH / HTML5 JQUERY VODOO
or did the first line end with IE6'S TABOO? I forget.
 
9:22 AM
To be honest, I never really understood the global login thing. I just hit the login button and got blocked.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:18 AM
@Benjol Global login is automatic
if it works you don't have to do anything, a dropdown appears saying you've been logged in and asking you to reload.
 
11:42 AM
@radp, but you have to have logged in at least once from the same PC, no?
 
@Benjol yeah, in any SE site
 
@radp, hang on. So if I'm successfully logged into SO on this machine, it should automatically log me in to programmers, even if I've never logged into it from here before?
 
12:01 PM
@Benjol Yes, if you have a linked account there
Global login doesn't also register you.
 
OK, doesn't seem to be working for me though...
I'm linked but not logged in
 
12:28 PM
Hello
 
12:46 PM
<geographically-correct time-of-day-based greeting>!
 
That's about right
I like this programmers SE site, but I hate that I have to start from zero rep. What happened to getting 101 for being an existing SE user?
 
@spoulson you should have gotten the 100 for linking to other sites... I did.
 
Hmm, I recall that being automatic in the past.
Where can I do that now?
I'm logging in with the same OpenID as always.
 
yeah it's always auto for me
 
How do I escalate something like this? I never had to bug the moderators before
 
12:57 PM
bug Meta.SO instead!
 
Hmm, on my user profile is an Accounts tab wher eit shows all my other accounts.
When I click Associate with Stackoverflow.com, it says it's already associated with another account.
 
Does your accounts page show them as linked?
 
all of them do
No links
correction, one link to answers.onstartups.com
 
Did you just say all and none? |:
 
1:13 PM
Morning everyone
 
Hi Josh
 
How are you @Fosco?
 
Exhausted, thanks... you?.. One of my smoke detectors decided it's battery was too low at 4am and beeped to scare me awake.
 
Ouch
 
I don't need smoke detectors to be awaken at 4am. I have a baby
 
1:17 PM
@Fosco Ug. That's no fun
 
heh =\
 
Well I have a crazy day, won't be able to chat much until after 5pm EST. You all behave now! :-)
 
without @TheUnhandledException I can stop writing all those tedious try/catches !!!
yay
 
Your day just got easier @John ;-)
 
Morning.
 
1:20 PM
Evening.
 
Sorry, good morning.
 
Behaving is no fun. ):
 
See y'all later then.
 
So you would just rather stop acting at all?
Good day to you, @Moshe
 
37 mins ago, by Fosco
<geographically-correct time-of-day-based greeting>!
 
1:24 PM
$geographically_correct_time_of_day_based_greeting="Hi" #hack
5
 
Heh
 
I'd rename that variable to $geographically_correct_greeting
 
Tim
@radp That's not enterprise-y enough, "Hi" should clearly be stored in a constant called HELLO_SHORTFORM.
 
@Tim "Perl" is not enterpresey enough to begin with, we should be talking about Java classes here
 
Surely there should be an ORM framework which automagically maps to the proper greeting based on the current context. A consultant would be able to implement it in a couple of months, give or take a year.
 
1:32 PM
class GeographicallyCorrectGreeting extends Greeting implements ITimeBased, IInformal
 
no inheritance? :(
 
Tim
@radp A Java framework with some JNI methods to make calls to Windows DLLs, perhaps.
 
@Tim Do they communicate via XML and XLST?
 
Tim
Nah, proprietary messaging format.
 
@Tim Sold!
Oh, and we need to use Excel as our database backend, I'm sure that's not a problem
this way we can edit data right in and maybe colour it too
 
1:36 PM
What about having the DLLs use Unix services for Windows to communicate via Unix domain sockets locally to the NTP server?
 
Tim
0
A: Why does this go into an infinite loop?

user463596Why not just do x++; Why assign it back to x ?

 
too much?
 
Tim
Heh...I guess the bold part of the question didn't stand out enough for them to actually read it.
@radp Ugh, most of our clients have an Excel fetish. That and SAS...It makes me sad.
 
@JohntheSeagull Those technologies are deprecated, you should try SQL instead.
@Tim Don't tell me, don't tell me
 
I thought JQuery superseded SQL
 
1:40 PM
@JohntheSeagull upper management decided to replace jQuery with vapor.js, their marketing department was impressed with just how small and fast that library is
 
I have a comic on my wall at work that would be perfect to link now. Will link it later. ):
 
Yeah, vapor.js is impossible to beat in bandwidth efficiency.
 
*our
 
$geographically_correct_term_for_water_gas="steam";
 
$.greeting();
 
1:52 PM
@JohntheSeagull You can download vaporware from Steam? What?
 
10/4/10 9:50:14 AM GrowlHelperApp[1728] Adium: Fosco (fosco@smart-safe-secure.com) (is seen) - Priority 0
10/4/10 9:50:14 AM GrowlHelperApp[1728] Adium: Fosco (fosco@smart-safe-secure.com) (is no longer seen) - Priority 0
10/4/10 9:50:19 AM GrowlHelperApp[1728] Adium: Fosco (fosco@smart-safe-secure.com) (test again) - Priority 0
10/4/10 9:50:24 AM GrowlHelperApp[1728] Adium: Fosco (fosco@smart-safe-secure.com) (is seen) - Priority 0
10/4/10 9:50:24 AM GrowlHelperApp[1728] Adium: Fosco (fosco@smart-safe-secure.com) (is no longer seen) - Priority 0
@Fosco ^ ^
:-)
 
@Tim Gah!
 
@TheUnhandledException and you've sent replies right?.. that's the only issue I'm having, the replies aren't being received.
sure your server stores offline messages?
 
@Fosco I sent a few replies and yes, I'm positive the server supports offline messages. Up to like 50kb I think is what I have it set at
 
I can't believe over 100 people upvoted that.
 
1:59 PM
> Fosco will never read this...
 
ok.. I have an idea..
 
Tim
@PopularDemand Yeah, those kinds of questions always seem to get a lot of attention for some reason.
 
Interesting question of the day:
6
Q: Do you drink/eat anything good for your eyes?

ixtmixilixGreen tea is full of catechins, as this study shows, a type of flavinoid that goes directly from the bloodstream to the eyeball, where it fights oxidative stress, keeping the eyes young. I have been drinking loads of high-quality green tea since I learned about this, and definitely noticed a chan...

 
@Tim I'll just say I recognize the OP's username, and leave it at that.
 
Tim
@PopularDemand Ah, heh
@spoulson Hmm, maybe that's why my eyeballs haven't dissolved yet from being subjected to so much monitor light..
 
2:08 PM
@Fosco ^
wow
I just killed my XMPP server, LOL
 
lol what happened?
 
1
Q: All ask-advice pages refer to Stack Overflow

Andy E's head Welcome to Gaming! We'd love to help you. But not every question on Stack Overflow gets answered. To improve your chances, here are some tips: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/ask-advice Welcome to Super User! We'd love to help you. But not every question on Stack Over...

 
Actually just my connection
 
closed both my windows
 
0
A: All ask-advice pages refer to Stack Overflow

Chacha102I see no error. No matter what site you are looking at, it is factually true that no every question on Stack Overflow gets answered.

 
2:12 PM
it didn't like me sending to fosco/Webuser_34157@smart-safe-secure.com
Ahhh. Resources won't work @Fosco
 
hmm.. so the required approach might be to register a new account for each web user?... I was hoping we would not have to do that..
 
What I haven't mentioned yet is what the resource "perlscript" is for. In fact, this is a very useful feature in Jabber because you can have multiple resources for one account. If you sent a message to both gpoul@jabber.org/office and gpoul@jabber.org/home, you would reach two completely different clients.
If you just send the message to gpoul@jabber.org, the message will be routed according to the user's preferences. The neat thing about this is that if the user is not at home or at the office, they would be able to get their message to gpoul@jabber.org/cell or something like gpoul@jabber.
@Fosco I was hoping we wouldn't need to either, but, it looks like we might
Unless we create a component
 
@Chacha102: I did originally intend to add a statement like that to the question, and I genuinely forgot :-)
 
@Fosco I have to attend a conf. call. I'll think about some ideas and get back to you later :-)
 
ok.. if you're still reading.. based on that article why doesnt it work?.. should be fosco@smart-safe-secure.com/Webuser_34157 instead
@rchern I basically pulled off that challenge.. less than a days development effort, functioning 2 way server-based XMPP client. not without issues, though.
 
2:21 PM
@Fosco Not sure why my client crashed, but, it doesn't work because resources are supposed to allow a single person to direct the "flow" of messages
so when I, Josh, sign on from a new resource I can redirect messages there
IDK if there's a way to Im a particular resource. I'll try fosco@smart-safe-secure.com/Webuser_34157 now
 
ok I'm there..
loading..
 
fosco@smart-safe-secure.com/Webuser_34157 does not crash
 
muahahahaha
let me load that other client up
Webuser_31661
I will have all sent messages be pre-pended with the users resource
 
will leave you alone now, ttyl.
 
2:28 PM
ttfn :-)
 
Man, that NTI thing didn't get nearly as much attention as I expected. I guess it's because they did the White House thing and announced it on Friday night when everyone was getting ready for the weekend.
 
Well they also posted on nti not meta, but yeah
 
@rchern bradp's PSA should have alleviated some of the damage done by that.
 
No. Some. But it isn't the same
 
Tim
@PopularDemand I'm just disappointed that the main argument when all is said and done seems to be that Jeff just doesn't like the name. There was talk about strengthening the Stack Exchange brand and how that carries over from site to site, but that was followed up by saying that 90% of traffic comes from Google...and at that point doesn't it matter more whether or not you're in the top spot? Or are people really analyzing the URL to see if it looks familiar to them?
 
2:41 PM
I haven't looked at the question on webmasters today. I hope it has some good info
 
@rchern The what?
@Tim If anything, they're analyzing the logo. Every time I look at it, I feel more like I'm on the web app subsite of whatever site has the cloud + power icon logo.
 
Read th latest comments on the q. Someone took the question to the webmasters site
 
You know, like www.cloudcomputing.com/apps or something.
Based on the position of the MultiCollider, it actually looks a bit like Web Apps' logo is actually the SE logo.
@rchern Nice.
 
Tim
@PopularDemand Wow, you're right. It definitely blends in more there than on the other sites.
I personally feel that if you've experienced enough to trust the network, then you know enough about the network to identify its sites...but maybe I'm off base.
 
Who trusts the network?
 
2:49 PM
I wish we could get some opinions from people who have never heard of SO/SE before. But by definition, those people aren't participating in Meta.
 
Tim
@Shog9 I dunno, I trust the quality of the content myself, but apparently that's not the relevant part of the site..
 
@PopularDemand Maybe I should ask my coworkers. I promote SO every chance I can, yet no one's ever heard of it or if they have, choose not to participate.
 
Tim
That still bugs me too, heh.
 
@Tim the content (of SE) is all over the map - answers on SO tend to be reasonable, answers on SU...
 
Tim
@Shog9 Right, I had meant that I judge each site based on its individual merits, not come in with a blind assumption that it's the definitive word simply because it's a Stack Exchange site.
 
2:56 PM
More importantly, you'd have to examine the content for a specific site before knowing what you could ask there
 
Tim
Yes, at which point the name as an identifier of content becomes fairly irrelevant. For example, I'm still on the fence about committing to the Healthcare IT proposal because I'm not convinced that their view of "healthcare IT" includes the kinds of things that I work with. That ambiguity would exist whether the site ended up being heathcareit.stackexchange.com or <whatever>.com.
(and as an outsider I'd only know for sure after looking at the questions/FQ/what have you)
 
I never knew there would be such intense debate about names..
 
@Fosco It's about the names, but it's also about SOIS just... doing stuff.
2
 
Tim
Whoops, *FAQ
 
It's bikeshedding at its best. Whenever everyone has an opinion, discussions are fierce
 
3:07 PM
@AndyEshead That is hilarious lol
 
Andy Eshead?
 
don't ask..
 
@JohntheSeagull You can click on the "left-turn arrow" to see which message that's a reply to.
 
I know that. It's just that this naming scheme butchers the nicks
 
@JohntheSeagull how's this bikeshedding? from the very beginning we were told that graduating out of beta will include the own domain name. How many times were we encouraged to get the site identity and the name? Then out of the blue w/o a word everything is changing?
@JohntheSeagull And what does SO do? Post recommendation on how to post a question, ffs like!
 
3:09 PM
@JohntheSeagull Ah. Sorry for insulting your intelligence, then.
 
@PopularDemand don't worry, I don't have enough to get it to be insulted
 
@PopularDemand you are not sorry...
 
@Tim, Is IE 9 stable enough for me to move over from IE 8?
 
@SilentGhost then I'm missing some facts. Where's info about sites not getting their domain names anymore?
 
is it bad to edit into the title of a question [closed]?
 
3:12 PM
31
Q: Public Service Announcement: ongoing, offsite discussion about Area51 graduates' branding

radpApparently, the SE team is doing a complete 180° turn and going from this: American audiences, generally, don’t trust series. They tend to believe that they want the best baking book, period, not whatever baking book comes in yellow. When they see a shelf full of yellow dummy books, they most...

 
Oh well..
 
@John See the three links contained therein.
 
5
Q: All ask-advice pages refer to Stack Overflow [not-closed]

Andy E's head Welcome to Gaming! We'd love to help you. But not every question on Stack Overflow gets answered. To improve your chances, here are some tips: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/ask-advice Welcome to Super User! We'd love to help you. But not every question on Stack Over...

 
Tim
@LanceRoberts Oh, I have no idea actually, heh. We were just discussing it in relation to CSS3 support.
 
So, it just rained
and now I see that the lawn at my school is being watered...
 
3:13 PM
@JohntheSeagull ah, uhm, hello. this is my point. There is no "info" as in blog post explaining reasons, asking for people's opinions, etc. They're just "doing stuff".
 
5
Q: Can you fake a closed question?

RicketI just had a random thought; what if you append "[closed]" to the end of a question title. Is it filtered out, or in some way disallowed? If you are seeing this, it isn't. It could potentially be used for some trickery, right? Or maybe not. I don't know, that's why you're here: discuss! EDIT: J...

 
@PopularDemand Meh. I'm going to go on a rampage of adding obvious but useless information to posts
 
@SilentGhost my point was that I wasn't aware of this. On the question linked to by popular demand there is some comments by jeff
 
@PopularDemand My first task is to add the tag 'Question' to every SO post in existence
 
@Chacha102 There are easier ways to earn a suspension.
 
3:16 PM
@PopularDemand Like?
 
@Chacha102 Spam posts and offensive posts.
For extra bonus points, post lots of spam links to offensive things!
 
@PopularDemand But that actually causes harm
 
@JohntheSeagull I'm yet to find an adequate one.
 
I'd rather do something that could somehow be portrayed as somewhat beneficial to someone...maybe...
 
@SilentGhost There isn't an appropriate one nor, given history, will there ever be one
 
3:18 PM
@Chacha102 Oh, I misunderstood your goal.
 
@Chacha102 Edit and down-vote a lot then... Those are both fairly controversial but still considered beneficial in abstract.
 
@Shog9 @PopularDemand Look at the title and comments of this question: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/66568/… That is the type of slightly helpful but not really nonsense I'm aiming for
Curse you @MichaelMrozek!!!!
Look at the history..
 
You could edit answers to provide far too much detail. "Well, as @someone said, you need to put in another curly brace on line 15. You can do this by moving your mouse until the little pointy thing is at the end of the line on the screen, and then pressing down on the mouse's left-most button. At that point, you should move your hands to the keyboard.
Using your left hand, press and hold either of the keys labeled 'Shift.' Then, while still holding that key, press the key with a '}' symbol on top of a ']' symbol. Don't forget to release the 'Shift' key when you're done!"
 
lol
 
@Chacha102 I was going to ask what you were doing, and then I saw this and decided it was probably safe to rollback:
7 mins ago, by Chacha102
@PopularDemand Meh. I'm going to go on a rampage of adding obvious but useless information to posts
 
3:22 PM
@MichaelMrozek Two points for you, sir.
 
@SilentGhost yeah, that's the problem. It's not like Team SO or anyone else commenting really has any idea how this is gonna play out - so arguing that one naming scheme or another is "better" is just guesswork. But because we were told for months that picking a name and identity was Of The Utmost Importance, this semi-silent reversal just comes across as capricious.
 
* points have no MSO rep value and are not redeemable for... anything
 
damn
 
@Shog9 I would even disagree with a "semi-silent" description. Just to copy my comment here: "i don't think it's a policy per se, but rather manner in which it was done. The policy that arrives on the hills of decision is not a policy at all, but rather a fixing-a-mess measure."
 
I tried to make bug a synomym to feature-request
but moderator/required tags can only be synomnymized by mods..
 
3:24 PM
So, who is going to call Jeff's wife to be told he doesn't care about the money?
 
it would be really funny if they forgot about that though..
 
@JohntheSeagull I think taking an offence is the best position to be: you don't need to address a real question. Does it matter whether it's done for money or not? It's a wrong decision! Like all the over-engineering that Jeff is not willing to admit.
 
@JohntheSeagull I'm tempted. But I'd have to email him for his number first, and that just sounds like entirely too much work just to harass a woman I've never met.
@SilentGhost Meh. Most sites, that's how I'd expect it to work.
 
Although, even if that were true, the problem is what @Shog9 said. Changing things on the fly, after proselytizing like hell.
 
So anyone doing something interesting this morning?
 
3:28 PM
The only reason anyone expects different from SOIC is that SO was so open/transparent
 
Lesson is, never proselytize like hell.
 
@Chacha102 SVN almost seems to kinda work perhaps properly!
@JohntheSeagull +1 for word choice
 
Tim
@PopularDemand No more phantom folders?
 
the choice of name, logo, the whole development process was laid bare for all to see
we got used to it
SE is much more opaque
but we haven't adjusted to that yet
 
@Chacha102 finishing up a server-based xmpp web-client
 
3:30 PM
@Tim I caved and installed TortoiseSVN. Downloaded everything into C:\testOfTortoiseSVN or something and it went smoothly. Then I just had to copy/paste in after nuking the existing folder from orbit (for the second time).
 
The problem is not opacity by itself, but in change. They are really straining the community.
The worst part of this all is that many won't leave after this (nor the next, nor the following). Some will, but most won't. That's captive audience.
 
@Fosco just wrapped up call, need to fix an email issue then will talk XMPP
 
Tim
@PopularDemand Ah, well at least it's working now. I'm still unsure of what the problem could have been, but I have had it act wonky on me before.
 
@Tim I'm still kinda paranoid about it.
Asking the boss if he has any ideas, but honestly I've lost so much time to this that I may have to just accept that it's mostly working and forge ahead.
 
How did it break on you? @PopularDemand
 
3:34 PM
@JohntheSeagull Someone added a new project to the repo and I couldn't pull it down with Subclipse.
After nuking all the files for the first time, I discovered that when I tried to check out, I got files that shouldn't even exist.
 
It is the way it wS done. When the initial question was posed to mods it seemed like nti was goi g o be grandfathered in. Then it was posted to be discussed. Then the site went down without warning and came back up as wa
 
Like phantom bin directories.
 
Something smells rotten (VC-mandated) in the state of StackExchange.
 
@PopularDemand You should be fine with TortoiseSVN
 
I've had some troubles with Tortoise as well, not as big though
 
3:41 PM
I've used it side-by-side with other svn plugins/clients before, worked without issue
 
There's comments regarding the vcs but I forget what they said
 
Hello
 
$geographically_correct_greeting
 
$geographically_incorrect_greeting
 
throw new ImpolitenessException
 
3:46 PM
I think the font for my messages are slightly large than others..
catch(ImpolitenessException $e){ echo get_rand_curse(); $conversation->leave(); }
 
Tim
@Chacha102 Hey, we don't use that kind of language in here.. (PHP)
 
@Fosco I think that my IM client can't handle XMPP resources effectively...
> Multiple resources for someone on the contact list are handled, but not shown in the user interface. The resource to send to can also not be selected (like in Psi).
 
@Tim, Sorry, but the host would charge me extra for ASP..
 
@all: what is it with different sizes of avatars on the left?
 
@SilentGhost Example?
 
3:51 PM
@SilentGhost It's tied to how many lines the user posted in that message.
Or uninterrupted group of messages.
 
They all look the same to me, unless a user posts >3 lines in a row
 
Interruption being done by others users' messages and/or time.
 
Damn You Time....
2
 
new (experimental) feature announcement: cross-site quoting
 
@balpha YEY!!!!!!!!!!
I have been wanting that very badly
As you know, I love to crosspost :-)
 
3:56 PM
finally
@balpha Did you ever fix the pinning bug?
 
which one?
 
@balpha Where if I pin my own message, and then unpin it, it leaves a star
 
that's not a bug
 
Effectively allowing me to star my own messages..
 
yes
 
3:57 PM
that's a feature
 
however I can't remove that star..
 
jeff called it "a privilege of the room owner"
 
lol
 
nobody can remove their stars
 
But I guess I can cancel stars, so w/e
 
3:58 PM
status-bydesign
 
@balpha Is there a comment in the code that does the cross-posting giving me attribution as the suggester of cross-site quotes?
 

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