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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

12:08 AM
My refrigerator sounds like Darth Vader
@JohntheSeagull Ummmm... that's probably not good :-)
But what do I know, I'm a software guy not a hardware guy
@JohntheSeagull reminds me of:
2 hours later…
2:41 AM
Is it just me or did webapps go back to its old URL?
we know.
there, uh, was a discussion.
and then it changed.
Q: Webapps.stackexchange.com verus Nothingtoinstall.com

Robert CartainoNothing to Install is a fine name, probably one of the best in the network. Yet, it's confusing to have half the people talking about Webapps and half Nothing To Install. Considering... Naming (domain name selection) is really hard. Not all communities seem able to do it, as in they can't e...

mind describing what happened? Just curious
seo rank and site recognition concerns brought about the team raising a discussion as posted on our meta site, linked above.
i can't speak to why the url was changed 2 hours later.
I see their point...
It really hurts to agree with it but I kind of do
there are a lot of complications when the site takes its own name/brand
oh i have no issue with raising the point for discussion.
2:46 AM
they may just be reverting back to the old way temporarily until its solved
before it gets too set in place you know?
that's silly.
you can always add it back but its a lot harder to take it away later if we decide it needs to be taken away
then if individual domains are decided on, that's yet another change, bookmark update, and general confusion.
well, the URL still forwards to the correct place
but I understand what you mean
the permanent redirect was in place yesterday too.
2:52 AM
just voted up aeronaught
well said
Hey I just saw this, don't have time to hang around and chat but wanted ley you know @rchern I agree, this decision to take away your name was made far too hastily!
just along for the ride! heh. (;
Oh ok :-)
I'm off for the night. Catch you later @rchern!
hopefully we'll learn more soon |:
ah, adios
3:08 AM
i'm playing a little devil's advocate on the topic. It's fun
3:20 AM
Q: Why did my banana catch fire in the microwave?

yossarianWow, that sounds like a silly question, but really! My wife froze bananas in the freezer with the peel still on. You can't peel them frozen. I put it in the microwave for one minute at 50% power. After 30 seconds the thin end of the peel (where a bunch connect to each other) was on fire, with a v...

2 hours later…
4:52 AM
So I see the team is screwing up WebApps...
Apparently so. Apparently the internet at large will feel more cozy with the infallibility that is the Stack Exchange monolith...or something like that.
I mean, they have a point..
it is going to be a tuff call..
@Chacha102 Eh?
@GeorgeMarian They can't decide to switch all the branding to NothingToInstall.com
They like the feel of something.stackexchange.com
Frankly, I'm not surprised.
4:58 AM
same here
it is a very hard problem
Even if you bought the domain really early
and switched it
at least for WebApps, it has gained a sort of 'feel' to it
I'd say it's so for any SE site, though less so for the non-techie sites. I was rather surprised that they were going to go for individual branding with SE2.0 sites.
@Chacha102 It does for the people who are already there, but I'm not convinced that it has that much impact on people who are new to the Stack Exchange community.
@tim but a majority of the community is the people already there...
That said, it could just be the natural resistance to change.
Right, but the issue of branding is certainly not for their benefit.
5:05 AM
@Tim It's not entirely removed, the community had input, right?
@GeorgeMarian Apparently it was "brought up for discussion" while they were in the process of reverting the domain name.
@Tim Ok, I'm a little lost. Did they revert it or just thought about it or were going to do it then didn't?
I'm not active in that community though, @rchern would know better about the details
From what I see
Obviously, I haven't exactly kept up with that site. lol
5:07 AM
They changed it for a little
and then reverted it
and now the domain redirects
@GeorgeMarian They switched over to nothingtoinstall.com, then today they switched back to webapps.stackexchange.com
What annoys me most about that (not being a community member) is now the site is called "webapps" in the footer on the Stack Exchange sites, which is confusing :P
Ah, ok. I noticed the change to the new domain, as I'm still trying for the stupid fanatic badge, for some dumb reason.
I hate Magento..
I've spent a total of 2 hours with it, and I already hate it..
Client has a 1.1.7 version
and the current release is 1.4.x
and it won't upgrade cleanly
5:10 AM
Are they willing to upgrade?
I'm trying to upgrade
but it won't upgrade cleanly
from 1.1 to 1.4
having annoying database issues
so I have to use their database migration tool
which means the client has to give me access to a second database
and I have to install a second copy of magento
and then use the migrator, point it at the new DB
and tell it to fix the old DB
Sounds like a blast. =/
And supposidly when you upgrade from something like 1.3 -> 1.4 it doesn't it automatically
and what I got to think is, they must have gone in and deleted the file that upgrades from 1.1 -> 1.2
and rewrittten with 1.2-> 1.3
when they could have saved the code from 1.1 -> 1.2
and if they detected a 1.1 version
run that
and THEN the 1.2 -> 1.3
and finally the 1.3 -> 1.4
I mean, if you're going to write the code, why not keep it in use? Otherwise you are wasting it..
plus, it might help people
Right. While consolidating the upgrades is nice, keeping the old ones around in case that doesn't work is just a good idea.
I'm a firm believer than as long as the first number is the same
There shouldn't be a giant change
5:15 AM
I tend to keep all sorts of old crap. I may never find it again, but I know I have it somewhere. lol
Like a PHP 5.1 script is roughly compatible with PHP 5.3
Otherwise, you're doing it wrong.
but might not be with PHP 6.2
My future co-workers are gonna hate me...
And, if you skip point releases, it should signify a bunch of changes, but not necessarily huge changes.
cause I'm too logical..
5:17 AM
and I'm only 17 lol
Never too early start.
So, I'm trying to find an argument against the following quote:
"The purpose of high school is so you can work as hard as possible for 4 years and then go to a good college"
Because I believe if that quote is 100% true, it is kinda depressing..
Well, personally I loved my college experience. Nevermind the degree. It was the "learning how to learn" that was important.
But I'm not talking about College
I know I'm going to College
But I don't spend almost any time outside of school working on school work/studying for school, etc
5:20 AM
Well, if you slack of in high school and do nothing, how do you end up in a decent college program?
Community College -> Guaranteed UC Spot
@Chacha102 Fair enough. I lived on a farm and worked my ass off.
2 year transfer program
You spend 2 years at a California Community College, and you're are guarenteed a transfer to one of the University of California
Well, that's an acceptable path, as ultimately it's what you make of it. However, it's better if you can get yourself into a decent program from the start.
I mean the biggest argument for it is that in the 4 Year Colleges, you spend your first 1 or two years taking General courses
yet paying the 4yr price tag
5:23 AM
I suppose it depends on the level of flexibility in your program.
Fair enough, but there's more rigor which better prepares you for the advanced courses.
There is also benefit to forming relationships with peers and faculty over that four year period, though it depends on how important that is to you.
High school was a breeze, college kicked my ass.
Granted, I drank like a fish my freshman year.
I dunno, I mean my biggest fear is that I wasted 4 years of my life because I wasn't up till 10pm studying like everyone else..
I mean, considering my school gets out at 3pm
thats 7 hours of studying
with eating/breaks, probably 5
Meh, I graduated a year early and studied like 1hr a day my last year in high school.
That is, 1hr a day outside of school hours. But, my high school wasn't very competitive.
5:27 AM
I mean, in the end I guess it is more about your passion to do things. If you have the passion, you'll find the education and the knowledge wherever you need to
My roomate freshmen year had transfered in and did quite well.
and then you can even take a step back from there and go into religious beliefs..
But, he busted his hump before that in order to get in.
@GeorgeMarian I'm not worried about the work. I've done work :)
anyway, I'm going to bed
peace all
Right, so ultimately it's 6 of these or 1/2 dozen of the other. It's still about hard work.
5:30 AM
Well, at least they aren't committed enough to the revert to have updated all of the advertisements yet.
Man, I should've just gone to bed, instead of lighting a cigar. But now, I just have to finish it.
@Tim lol
6:15 AM
Can someone tell me how to print a decimal number as binary in C?
like we can use %o to print a decimal number as octal
does there exist something for decimal?or should i work on bits?
6:42 AM
Hmm, I don't really recall that printf had a binary option, but since that was a one size fits all method, it might,.
7:10 AM
@MetroidFan2002:Now i am trying to use the showbits() function but compiler says prototype missing
Any idea about showbits()?
8:34 AM
5,579,517: Common name space for long and short filenames
5,758,352: Common name space for long and short filenames
6,621,746: Monitoring entropic conditions of a flash memory device as an indicator for invoking erasure operations
6,826,762: Radio interface layer in a cell phone with a set of APIs having a hardware-independent proxy layer and a hardware-specific driver layer
6,909,910: Method and system for managing changes to a contact database
7,644,376: Flexible architecture for notifying applications of state changes
List of MS owned patents that Android breaks, provided for your general disgust.
Here's an excerpt of 6,909,910
For a second I thought that they used Comic Sans in that chart
Wanna do this? Pay Microsoft.
Also kind of interesting that they bring that case in the same week that they're also claiming that the burden of proof for patent infringement defense is too high..
I feel like...physical contact books...are kind of a prior art.
Patents have become too easy to get
They're next to worthless really, except that they're big business
They're plain disgusting
8:49 AM
They really are.
What's even more disgusting is that they've been put in place before I was born, secured before I knew what a computer was and everything took place in a country I've never been in.
What chances do I have of writing patent-free software exactly?
@radp Probably fairly low, since most patents are just like EULAs
Generalized enough to cover everything that might ever happen
9:04 AM
This reminds me of a Daily WTF entry actually..
9:22 AM
http://mothereffingtextshadow.com that's all. via @jarrod_dixon
make sure you go all the way.
That's some intense mother effing text-shadow
The sliders fail miserably in Firefox though..
opens Chrome
[ ] wtf does nothing for me
opens Firefox
I couldn't figure out what it was supposed to be doing either..let's see.
It's a no-op in FF too apparently, except going all the way has my computer going at 100% CPU for a while before it can render the text
whereas Chromium doesn't break a sweat :)
oh, in wtf mode changing one slider doesn't reset the others.
9:28 AM
in other news, that one is a textbox.
1 hour later…
10:45 AM
In other news, goo.gl added public analytics for goo.gl shortcuts
example for a goo.gl URL shared by Jeff.
Hmm, interesting.
Don't ask me why, when I right click that link and copy link address, I get https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=urlshortener&continue=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&followup=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&passive=true&go=true instead of what I specified, https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=urlshortener&continue=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&followup=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&passive=true&go=true
@Marc what's going on here? :)
oh, right, goo.gl expansion.
2 hours later…
1:00 PM
Q: Does Android come with free navigation in non-US contries?

badpThe fact that free navigation is available for new enough Android devices using Google-owned map data is well known. Does Android offer free navigation in non-US countries as well?

3 hours later…
3:44 PM
Heh, "flag for moderator attention" != "flag for moderate attention."
@fahad I don't know about showbits(), it's been awhile since I programmed in C.
@fahad You can, however, implement a simple method to return a string of binary numbers...

Create a character array based off the integer's size somehow
Copy the integer into a manipulatable variable
While the manipulatable variable is not equal to zero
Get the modulus operation of dividing this variable by 2 (i.e. 3 %2 = 1, so your first binary character would be a 1)
Store this result as a character into the string at the right-most end (1)
Store the mutable integer as itself divided by two (3 / 2 = 1)
4:04 PM
@rchern Oh, hi there!
Didn't see you there between Metroid and Metroid.
Wow. I was going to link you about a bad user, but fishtoaster and bigown are both already on it.
You NTI mods are really being sharp for the first few days, huh?
er, is it normal that nothingtoinstall.com redirects to webapps.stackexchange.com with the name removed?
you've been missing the highlight of the day, it seems :)
They aren't nti mods, what site is he problem user on?
4:13 PM
Q: Webapps.stackexchange.com versus Nothingtoinstall.com

Robert CartainoNothing to Install is a fine name, probably one of the best in the network. Yet, it's confusing to have half the people talking about Webapps and half Nothing To Install. Considering... Naming (domain name selection) is really hard. Not all communities seem able to do it, as in they can't e...

Check the meta radp
On phone or I'd link you
I'm looking at it
the top answer wants nothingtoinstall.com back...
and the question doesn't explain why the site name got changed
Thanks @balpha
@rchern you should always be on your phone
slows you down :)
no more "wait a second" errors
Yeah. It got changed two hours after that was posted
Lol @balpha
4:15 PM
@rchern Whoops, I meant Programmers SE. If anyone asks, a chicken was running across my keyboard.
(Actually the question I was looking at immediately before, which was about embedded video, linked to an NTI question; that's probably why.)
I mean, you're telling us we've been discussing 87 days now for a domain name only to remain at gaming.stackexchange.com :)
@balpha, why hasn't @rchern received her Official Stack Exchange Telemarketer-grade Hands-Free Device for Cellular Telephony yet?
4:17 PM
she didn't want it, it didn't have /me support
Hey now... LOL
@balpha Ah. And here I thought it was because Jake Tucker couldn't wear it properly.
Whoa, I've been missing the highlight of the day, too. If you're reverting to the Web Apps logo for now, shouldn't you at least scrub "beta" off of it?
there's no "beta" on it
still got a cached version, perhaps?
yeah, I had the cached version too
I'm really confused by the move though.
I get the impression it isn't a for now kind of thing
4:23 PM
Though I hope the discussion does have weight
next time tell us before we pour 1.5k votes into a moot discussion
If you have opinions on it, add to the discussion linked
@rchern Whoo. I decline. There's already too much content on that page.
@balpha CTRL+F5 fixed it. I retract my comment.
Man, that looks bad though.
I want to visit "Slashdot," not "News that is of interest to programmers." I want to visit "Chowhound," not "Food."
@pop that's a bad reason.
4:29 PM
@rchern Why?
This is something that affects all.
Wait, which statement were you referring to?
There's too much comment so you can't even add votes or something?
@rchern Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear. There's so much content that anything I would say has already been said. All I'm doing is voting because there's no need to duplicate the actual words.
Ah (:
4:40 PM
@rchern Actually, after reading it all, I might change course and post a new answer after all.
Alright. In kc now. Bye!
5:01 PM
Wow, nobody deleted my MSO post yet?
@radp I'm in favor of it.
The announcement had to be made.
What post would that be?
Q: Public Service Announcement: ongoing, offsite discussion about Area51 graduates' branding

radpApparently, the SE team is doing a complete 180° turn and going from this: American audiences, generally, don’t trust series. They tend to believe that they want the best baking book, period, not whatever baking book comes in yellow. When they see a shelf full of yellow dummy books, they most...

which really is a redirect to
Q: Webapps.stackexchange.com versus Nothingtoinstall.com

Robert CartainoNothing to Install is a fine name, probably one of the best in the network. Yet, it's confusing to have half the people talking about Webapps and half Nothing To Install. Considering... Naming (domain name selection) is really hard. Not all communities seem able to do it, as in they can't e...

@radp you should link to the Grain of Salt discussion from chat the other day.
help me there, which one exactly?
btw, my .02$
5:05 PM
Well, one thing I'd hate for SE to become is yet another place where the people with dysfunctional naming genes gets to roam free
Next you'll have sites called cucumber.stackexchange.com, related to food
I can't count the number of programs or libraries I have just passed by simply because they have a bad name
And by "bad name" I mean something which sounds like it was cooked up by someone who would be prone to say "He said *fart*" while giggling
I just think that if they felt so strongly about this, stackoverflow.com should become a 301 redirect to programming.stackexchange.com
Obviously that will never ever happen.
Well, not now, obviously
But if the discussion had been raised before the site was finalized, I'm not so sure
The discussion started after NTI went live
Yes, but it hasn't really cemented itself in the world yet
our first Stack Exchange 2.0 community proposal has launched as a public site! welcome http://nothingtoinstall.com/
5:09 PM
Chat search has been broken for me for two days.
But while I am all for the SE owners learning, at some point you have to realize that a mistake can't always be undone
Is it just me? @balpha usually fixes stuff immediately.
Some of the mistakes being made contain political issues
@PopularDemand Dunno, if you go from the search page it works
but yes, top of bar search gives me an error as well.
@radp Thanks, I didn't know there was a separate search page.
Sep 28 at 20:13, by The Unhandled Exception
> Since in Italy "to have salt in your pumpkin" (avere sale in zucca - pumpkin is a funny way to say "head") means to have intelligence and reasoning capabilities, "grain of salt" often means "a little bit of intelligence"
5:18 PM
@PopularDemand this one ? seems to work fine for me
@Sathya gave me an error when I searched "Grain of Salt"
@radp yep, that phrase gives me an error too
I don't remember what I searched for yesterday, but I don't think it was "grain of salt." I got problemz cat then as well.
5:34 PM
yeah, looks like the database times out when scoping the search to a room
probably an indexing issue
At any rate, I'm saving this here
and saving this here
ooooh @balpha, check out @radp's posts when starred (;
known issue
5:48 PM
I don't live in a country where the DMCA applies :P
is on a computer now (:
@rchern wee
@rchern What's special about them? Is this one of those special mod things?
@PopularDemand no
@PopularDemand look at the broken markdown links
5:49 PM
@PopularDemand, the markdown isn't converted. and the links aren't valid
«and saving this [here](dl.dropbox.com/u/1164414/SO/NothingToIns... - 3m ago by radp ▼»
the initial this link is ok
Dunno what you're talking about. All four links work for me.
@pop, look at the sidebar.
points to the right
5:51 PM
here, have an arrow: →
Oh, in the list of starred items.
Not merely "when starred."
i say what i mean and mean what i say!
From the Super User chat
> the pages are actually saved with absolute links to the live servers though, so if they remove the NTI image it'll still break
I mean what I mean and I say what I say.
@rchern so you are merely factually wrong!
@Sathya is that at me?
5:52 PM
@radp whoever saved it.
that would be you, right @radp
@radp this is impossible.
if Chrome's saving is worth a damn, the URLs should've been rewritten
<img src="./Our First Area 51 Site Goes Public - Blog – Stack Overflow_files/nothing-to-install-logo.png" alt="Q&amp;A for power users of web applications" title="Q&amp;A for power users of web applications" width="333" height="69">
6:11 PM
I'm sure I'm not the first person to have this idea, but can Stack Exchange hook up with existing communities about [insert topic here]? I don't think anyone would argue that Coding Horror and Joel on Software provided a great seed population for SO, and if we want experts for other topics, why not go to where they already are?
that seems to be getting into SE1.0 territory. though maybe we'll see what happens?
@rchern They'd still be SE 2.0 sites born from A51, we'd just be taking a different approach to getting beta users.
@PopularDemand uh, I thought that would be a given
I'm worried that passively waiting for experts to come to us is a losing proposition.
promotion wise of course
but that's up to the community to reach out
6:20 PM
Who said you should be waiting for experts
that's what referral is about
area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2912/… -- Hameds has an amazing 111 referrals.
@radp Referrals are currently depending on people who know about the site to send out invitations. It works fine if the existing committers/users are experts, but not if they aren't.
Uh, if you are an expert, have a blog with large traffic and follow the related Area51 proposal
referring is basically what you are asking for.
@radp Do people like this exist?
Argh, where are all my co-workers?
It's 2:30 and everyone's gone!
they all know it is the weekend?
anyways, bbl. bye!
@rchern And they were all told to come in today anyways.
6:44 PM
WTF....right channel just cut out...unplug the jack slightly and both channels work. =/ Gah, front panel jacks are nice...if they're not effing cheap.
I find it amusing I get a fraps frame counter for Sublime Text.
@GeorgeMarian Well, don't jam it in so hard next time. Problem resolved!
For some reason, it worries me more to have it sticking out slightly then all the way in. (Yes, I know...lots of good jokes there.)
I know what you mean, it looks broken even though it's not.
Yah, that must be it, as it's actually "safer" this way. More likely to just fall out, rather than break something if I bump into it or pull the cord.
6:51 PM
@GeorgeMarian Apple, you have a call on line 2. Apple, call on line 2.
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