Tavern on the Meta

John the Seagull

00:08

My refrigerator sounds like Darth Vader

The Unhandled Exception

@JohntheSeagull Ummmm... that's probably not good :-)

But what do I know, I'm a software guy not a hardware guy

@JohntheSeagull reminds me of:

►

Joe Philllips

02:41

Is it just me or did webapps go back to its old URL?

nothingtoinstall.com

rchern

we know.

there, uh, was a discussion.

and then it changed.

11

Q: Webapps.stackexchange.com verus Nothingtoinstall.com

Nothing to Install is a fine name, probably one of the best in the network. Yet, it's confusing to have half the people talking about Webapps and half Nothing To Install. Considering... Naming (domain name selection) is really hard. Not all communities seem able to do it, as in they can't e...

Joe Philllips

mind describing what happened? Just curious

rchern

seo rank and site recognition concerns brought about the team raising a discussion as posted on our meta site, linked above.

i can't speak to why the url was changed 2 hours later.

Joe Philllips

interesting

I see their point...

It really hurts to agree with it but I kind of do

there are a lot of complications when the site takes its own name/brand

rchern

oh i have no issue with raising the point for discussion.

Joe Philllips

02:46

they may just be reverting back to the old way temporarily until its solved

before it gets too set in place you know?

rchern

that's silly.

Joe Philllips

you can always add it back but its a lot harder to take it away later if we decide it needs to be taken away

rchern

then if individual domains are decided on, that's yet another change, bookmark update, and general confusion.

Joe Philllips

well, the URL still forwards to the correct place

but I understand what you mean

rchern

the permanent redirect was in place yesterday too.

Joe Philllips

02:52

just voted up aeronaught

well said

The Unhandled Exception

Hey I just saw this, don't have time to hang around and chat but wanted ley you know @rchern I agree, this decision to take away your name was made far too hastily!

rchern

just along for the ride! heh. (;

The Unhandled Exception

Oh ok :-)

I'm off for the night. Catch you later @rchern!

rchern

hopefully we'll learn more soon |:

ah, adios

Joe Philllips

03:08

i'm playing a little devil's advocate on the topic. It's fun

Joe Philllips

03:20

8

Q: Why did my banana catch fire in the microwave?

Wow, that sounds like a silly question, but really! My wife froze bananas in the freezer with the peel still on. You can't peel them frozen. I put it in the microwave for one minute at 50% power. After 30 seconds the thin end of the peel (where a bunch connect to each other) was on fire, with a v...

fruit microwave fire

Chacha102

04:52

So I see the team is screwing up WebApps...

Tim

Apparently so. Apparently the internet at large will feel more cozy with the infallibility that is the Stack Exchange monolith...or something like that.

Chacha102

I mean, they have a point..

it is going to be a tuff call..

George Marian

@Chacha102 Eh?

Chacha102

@GeorgeMarian They can't decide to switch all the branding to NothingToInstall.com

They like the feel of something.stackexchange.com

George Marian

Ah.

Frankly, I'm not surprised.

Chacha102

04:58

same here

it is a very hard problem

Even if you bought the domain really early

and switched it

at least for WebApps, it has gained a sort of 'feel' to it

George Marian

Yup.

I'd say it's so for any SE site, though less so for the non-techie sites. I was rather surprised that they were going to go for individual branding with SE2.0 sites.

Tim

@Chacha102 It does for the people who are already there, but I'm not convinced that it has that much impact on people who are new to the Stack Exchange community.

Chacha102

@tim but a majority of the community is the people already there...

George Marian

That said, it could just be the natural resistance to change.

Tim

Right, but the issue of branding is certainly not for their benefit.

George Marian

05:05

@Tim It's not entirely removed, the community had input, right?

Tim

@GeorgeMarian Apparently it was "brought up for discussion" while they were in the process of reverting the domain name.

George Marian

@Tim Ok, I'm a little lost. Did they revert it or just thought about it or were going to do it then didn't?

Tim

I'm not active in that community though, @rchern would know better about the details

Chacha102

From what I see

George Marian

Obviously, I haven't exactly kept up with that site. lol

Chacha102

05:07

They changed it for a little

and then reverted it

and now the domain redirects

Tim

@GeorgeMarian They switched over to nothingtoinstall.com, then today they switched back to webapps.stackexchange.com

What annoys me most about that (not being a community member) is now the site is called "webapps" in the footer on the Stack Exchange sites, which is confusing :P

George Marian

Ah, ok. I noticed the change to the new domain, as I'm still trying for the stupid fanatic badge, for some dumb reason.

Chacha102

I hate Magento..

I've spent a total of 2 hours with it, and I already hate it..

George Marian

heh

Chacha102

Client has a 1.1.7 version

and the current release is 1.4.x

and it won't upgrade cleanly

Tim

05:10

Are they willing to upgrade?

Chacha102

I'm trying to upgrade

but it won't upgrade cleanly

from 1.1 to 1.4

having annoying database issues

so I have to use their database migration tool

which means the client has to give me access to a second database

and I have to install a second copy of magento

and then use the migrator, point it at the new DB

and tell it to fix the old DB

George Marian

Sounds like a blast. =/

Chacha102

And supposidly when you upgrade from something like 1.3 -> 1.4 it doesn't it automatically

and what I got to think is, they must have gone in and deleted the file that upgrades from 1.1 -> 1.2

and rewrittten with 1.2-> 1.3

when they could have saved the code from 1.1 -> 1.2

and if they detected a 1.1 version

run that

and THEN the 1.2 -> 1.3

and finally the 1.3 -> 1.4

I mean, if you're going to write the code, why not keep it in use? Otherwise you are wasting it..

plus, it might help people

George Marian

Right. While consolidating the upgrades is nice, keeping the old ones around in case that doesn't work is just a good idea.

Chacha102

plus

I'm a firm believer than as long as the first number is the same

There shouldn't be a giant change

George Marian

05:15

I tend to keep all sorts of old crap. I may never find it again, but I know I have it somewhere. lol

Chacha102

Like a PHP 5.1 script is roughly compatible with PHP 5.3

George Marian

Agreed.

Otherwise, you're doing it wrong.

Chacha102

but might not be with PHP 6.2

srsly..

My future co-workers are gonna hate me...

George Marian

And, if you skip point releases, it should signify a bunch of changes, but not necessarily huge changes.

Chacha102

cause I'm too logical..

George Marian

05:17

lol

Chacha102

and I'm only 17 lol

George Marian

Never too early start.

Chacha102

So, I'm trying to find an argument against the following quote:

"The purpose of high school is so you can work as hard as possible for 4 years and then go to a good college"

Because I believe if that quote is 100% true, it is kinda depressing..

George Marian

Well, personally I loved my college experience. Nevermind the degree. It was the "learning how to learn" that was important.

Chacha102

But I'm not talking about College

I know I'm going to College

But I don't spend almost any time outside of school working on school work/studying for school, etc

George Marian

05:20

Well, if you slack of in high school and do nothing, how do you end up in a decent college program?

Chacha102

Community College -> Guaranteed UC Spot

George Marian

@Chacha102 Fair enough. I lived on a farm and worked my ass off.

Chacha102

2 year transfer program

You spend 2 years at a California Community College, and you're are guarenteed a transfer to one of the University of California

George Marian

Well, that's an acceptable path, as ultimately it's what you make of it. However, it's better if you can get yourself into a decent program from the start.

Chacha102

I mean the biggest argument for it is that in the 4 Year Colleges, you spend your first 1 or two years taking General courses

yet paying the 4yr price tag

Tim

05:23

I suppose it depends on the level of flexibility in your program.

George Marian

Fair enough, but there's more rigor which better prepares you for the advanced courses.

Tim

There is also benefit to forming relationships with peers and faculty over that four year period, though it depends on how important that is to you.

George Marian

High school was a breeze, college kicked my ass.

Granted, I drank like a fish my freshman year.

Chacha102

I dunno, I mean my biggest fear is that I wasted 4 years of my life because I wasn't up till 10pm studying like everyone else..

I mean, considering my school gets out at 3pm

thats 7 hours of studying

with eating/breaks, probably 5

George Marian

Meh, I graduated a year early and studied like 1hr a day my last year in high school.

That is, 1hr a day outside of school hours. But, my high school wasn't very competitive.

Chacha102

05:27

I mean, in the end I guess it is more about your passion to do things. If you have the passion, you'll find the education and the knowledge wherever you need to

George Marian

Yup.

My roomate freshmen year had transfered in and did quite well.

Chacha102

and then you can even take a step back from there and go into religious beliefs..

George Marian

But, he busted his hump before that in order to get in.

Chacha102

@GeorgeMarian I'm not worried about the work. I've done work :)

anyway, I'm going to bed

peace all

George Marian

Right, so ultimately it's 6 of these or 1/2 dozen of the other. It's still about hard work.

Tim

05:30

G'night

George Marian

g'night

Tim

Heh

George Marian

Eh?

Tim

Well, at least they aren't committed enough to the revert to have updated all of the advertisements yet.

George Marian

Man, I should've just gone to bed, instead of lighting a cigar. But now, I just have to finish it.

@Tim lol

user151055

06:15

Can someone tell me how to print a decimal number as binary in C?

user151055

like we can use %o to print a decimal number as octal

user151055

does there exist something for decimal?or should i work on bits?

user151055

@rchern?

MetroidFan2002

06:42

Hmm, I don't really recall that printf had a binary option, but since that was a one size fits all method, it might,.

user151055

07:10

@MetroidFan2002:Now i am trying to use the showbits() function but compiler says prototype missing

user151055

Any idea about showbits()?

radp

08:34

5,579,517: Common name space for long and short filenames
5,758,352: Common name space for long and short filenames
6,621,746: Monitoring entropic conditions of a flash memory device as an indicator for invoking erasure operations
6,826,762: Radio interface layer in a cell phone with a set of APIs having a hardware-independent proxy layer and a hardware-specific driver layer
6,909,910: Method and system for managing changes to a contact database
7,644,376: Flexible architecture for notifying applications of state changes

List of MS owned patents that Android breaks, provided for your general disgust.

Here's an excerpt of 6,909,910

Tim

For a second I thought that they used Comic Sans in that chart

radp

Wanna do this? Pay Microsoft.

Tim

Also kind of interesting that they bring that case in the same week that they're also claiming that the burden of proof for patent infringement defense is too high..

I feel like...physical contact books...are kind of a prior art.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Patents have become too easy to get

They're next to worthless really, except that they're big business

radp

They're plain disgusting

Tim

08:49

They really are.

radp

What's even more disgusting is that they've been put in place before I was born, secured before I knew what a computer was and everything took place in a country I've never been in.

What chances do I have of writing patent-free software exactly?

Tim

@radp Probably fairly low, since most patents are just like EULAs

Generalized enough to cover everything that might ever happen

Tim

09:04

This reminds me of a Daily WTF entry actually..

radp

09:22

http://mothereffingtextshadow.com that's all. via @jarrod_dixon

Tweeted by jzy on October 1, 2010 at 7:55 PM

make sure you go all the way.

Tim

That's some intense mother effing text-shadow

The sliders fail miserably in Firefox though..

opens Chrome

radp

[ ] wtf does nothing for me

opens Firefox

Tim

I couldn't figure out what it was supposed to be doing either..let's see.

radp

It's a no-op in FF too apparently, except going all the way has my computer going at 100% CPU for a while before it can render the text

whereas Chromium doesn't break a sweat :)

oh, in wtf mode changing one slider doesn't reset the others.

Tim

Ahh

radp

09:28

in other news, that one is a textbox.

radp

10:45

In other news, goo.gl added public analytics for goo.gl shortcuts

example for a goo.gl URL shared by Jeff.

Tim

Hmm, interesting.

radp

Don't ask me why, when I right click that link and copy link address, I get

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=urlshortener&continue=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&followup=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&passive=true&go=true

instead of what I specified,

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=urlshortener&continue=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&followup=http://goo.gl/info/l6JP?authed%3D1&passive=true&go=true

heh.

@Marc what's going on here? :)

oh, right, goo.gl expansion.

radp

13:00

0

Q: Does Android come with free navigation in non-US contries?

The fact that free navigation is available for new enough Android devices using Google-owned map data is well known. Does Android offer free navigation in non-US countries as well?

gps

Popular Demand

15:44

Heh, "flag for moderator attention" != "flag for moderate attention."

MetroidFan2002

@f

damn.

@fahad I don't know about showbits(), it's been awhile since I programmed in C.

rchern

Huh?

MetroidFan2002

@fahad You can, however, implement a simple method to return a string of binary numbers...

Psuedocode:
Create a character array based off the integer's size somehow
Copy the integer into a manipulatable variable
While the manipulatable variable is not equal to zero
Get the modulus operation of dividing this variable by 2 (i.e. 3 %2 = 1, so your first binary character would be a 1)
Store this result as a character into the string at the right-most end (1)
Store the mutable integer as itself divided by two (3 / 2 = 1)

Popular Demand

16:04

@rchern Oh, hi there!

Didn't see you there between Metroid and Metroid.

rchern

(:

Popular Demand

Wow. I was going to link you about a bad user, but fishtoaster and bigown are both already on it.

You NTI mods are really being sharp for the first few days, huh?

radp

er, is it normal that nothingtoinstall.com redirects to webapps.stackexchange.com with the name removed?

balpha

yes

you've been missing the highlight of the day, it seems :)

rchern

They aren't nti mods, what site is he problem user on?

balpha

16:13

16

Q: Webapps.stackexchange.com versus Nothingtoinstall.com

Nothing to Install is a fine name, probably one of the best in the network. Yet, it's confusing to have half the people talking about Webapps and half Nothing To Install. Considering... Naming (domain name selection) is really hard. Not all communities seem able to do it, as in they can't e...

discussion featured domain-name

rchern

Check the meta radp

On phone or I'd link you

radp

I'm looking at it

the top answer wants nothingtoinstall.com back...

and the question doesn't explain why the site name got changed

rchern

Thanks @balpha

balpha

@rchern you should always be on your phone

slows you down :)

no more "wait a second" errors

rchern

Yeah. It got changed two hours after that was posted

Lol @balpha

Popular Demand

16:15

@rchern Whoops, I meant Programmers SE. If anyone asks, a chicken was running across my keyboard.

rchern

Mmhmm

Popular Demand

(Actually the question I was looking at immediately before, which was about embedded video, linked to an NTI question; that's probably why.)

radp

I mean, you're telling us we've been discussing 87 days now for a domain name only to remain at gaming.stackexchange.com :)

Popular Demand

@balpha, why hasn't @rchern received her Official Stack Exchange Telemarketer-grade Hands-Free Device for Cellular Telephony yet?

rchern

O:

balpha

16:17

she didn't want it, it didn't have /me support

rchern

Hey now... LOL

Popular Demand

@balpha Ah. And here I thought it was because Jake Tucker couldn't wear it properly.

Whoa, I've been missing the highlight of the day, too. If you're reverting to the Web Apps logo for now, shouldn't you at least scrub "beta" off of it?

balpha

there's no "beta" on it

still got a cached version, perhaps?

radp

yeah, I had the cached version too

I'm really confused by the move though.

rchern

I get the impression it isn't a for now kind of thing

radp

16:23

:|

rchern

Though I hope the discussion does have weight

radp

next time tell us before we pour 1.5k votes into a moot discussion

rchern

If you have opinions on it, add to the discussion linked

Popular Demand

@rchern Whoo. I decline. There's already too much content on that page.

@balpha CTRL+F5 fixed it. I retract my comment.

Man, that looks bad though.

I want to visit "Slashdot," not "News that is of interest to programmers." I want to visit "Chowhound," not "Food."

rchern

@pop that's a bad reason.

Popular Demand

16:29

@rchern Why?

rchern

This is something that affects all.

Popular Demand

Wait, which statement were you referring to?

rchern

There's too much comment so you can't even add votes or something?

Popular Demand

@rchern Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear. There's so much content that anything I would say has already been said. All I'm doing is voting because there's no need to duplicate the actual words.

rchern

Ah (:

Popular Demand

16:40

@rchern Actually, after reading it all, I might change course and post a new answer after all.

rchern

Hehe

Alright. In kc now. Bye!

radp

17:01

Wow, nobody deleted my MSO post yet?

Popular Demand

@radp I'm in favor of it.

The announcement had to be made.

Lasse V. Karlsen

What post would that be?

radp

2

Q: Public Service Announcement: ongoing, offsite discussion about Area51 graduates' branding

Apparently, the SE team is doing a complete 180° turn and going from this: American audiences, generally, don’t trust series. They tend to believe that they want the best baking book, period, not whatever baking book comes in yellow. When they see a shelf full of yellow dummy books, they most...

discussion stackexchange-2.0

which really is a redirect to

16

Q: Webapps.stackexchange.com versus Nothingtoinstall.com

Nothing to Install is a fine name, probably one of the best in the network. Yet, it's confusing to have half the people talking about Webapps and half Nothing To Install. Considering... Naming (domain name selection) is really hard. Not all communities seem able to do it, as in they can't e...

discussion featured domain-name

Popular Demand

@radp you should link to the Grain of Salt discussion from chat the other day.

radp

help me there, which one exactly?

btw, my .02$

Lasse V. Karlsen

17:05

Well, one thing I'd hate for SE to become is yet another place where the people with dysfunctional naming genes gets to roam free

Next you'll have sites called cucumber.stackexchange.com, related to food

I can't count the number of programs or libraries I have just passed by simply because they have a bad name

And by "bad name" I mean something which sounds like it was cooked up by someone who would be prone to say "He said *fart*" while giggling

radp

I just think that if they felt so strongly about this, stackoverflow.com should become a 301 redirect to programming.stackexchange.com

Obviously that will never ever happen.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Well, not now, obviously

But if the discussion had been raised before the site was finalized, I'm not so sure

radp

The discussion started after NTI went live

Lasse V. Karlsen

Yes, but it hasn't really cemented itself in the world yet

radp

our first Stack Exchange 2.0 community proposal has launched as a public site! welcome http://nothingtoinstall.com/

Tweeted by codinghorror on September 30, 2010 at 8:53 PM

Popular Demand

17:09

Chat search has been broken for me for two days.

Lasse V. Karlsen

But while I am all for the SE owners learning, at some point you have to realize that a mistake can't always be undone

Popular Demand

Is it just me? @balpha usually fixes stuff immediately.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Some of the mistakes being made contain political issues

radp

@PopularDemand Dunno, if you go from the search page it works

eg, chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/search?q=bug&user=&room=77

but yes, top of bar search gives me an error as well.

Popular Demand

@radp Thanks, I didn't know there was a separate search page.

Sep 28 at 20:13, by The Unhandled Exception

> Since in Italy "to have salt in your pumpkin" (avere sale in zucca - pumpkin is a funny way to say "head") means to have intelligence and reasoning capabilities, "grain of salt" often means "a little bit of intelligence"

Sathya

17:18

@PopularDemand this one ? seems to work fine for me

radp

@Sathya gave me an error when I searched "Grain of Salt"

Sathya

@radp yep, that phrase gives me an error too

Popular Demand

I don't remember what I searched for yesterday, but I don't think it was "grain of salt." I got problemz cat then as well.

balpha

17:34

yeah, looks like the database times out when scoping the search to a room

probably an indexing issue

radp

At any rate, I'm saving this here

and saving this here

rchern

allo

radp

Hey

rchern

ooooh @balpha, check out @radp's posts when starred (;

balpha

known issue

radp

17:48

I don't live in a country where the DMCA applies :P

rchern

is on a computer now (:

radp

@rchern wee

Popular Demand

@rchern What's special about them? Is this one of those special mod things?

radp

@PopularDemand no

balpha

@PopularDemand look at the broken markdown links

rchern

17:49

@PopularDemand, the markdown isn't converted. and the links aren't valid

radp

«and saving this [here](dl.dropbox.com/u/1164414/SO/NothingToIns... - 3m ago by radp ▼»

rchern

the initial this link is ok

Popular Demand

Dunno what you're talking about. All four links work for me.

radp

@pop, look at the sidebar.

Tim

points to the right

radp

17:51

here, have an arrow: →

Popular Demand

Oh, in the list of starred items.

Not merely "when starred."

rchern

i say what i mean and mean what i say!

>_>

Sathya

From the Super User chat

> the pages are actually saved with absolute links to the live servers though, so if they remove the NTI image it'll still break

Popular Demand

I mean what I mean and I say what I say.

radp

@rchern so you are merely factually wrong!

2

@Sathya is that at me?

Sathya

17:52

@radp whoever saved it.

that would be you, right @radp

radp

uh, wrong, dl.dropbox.com/u/1164414/SO/NothingToInstall/…

rchern

@radp this is impossible.

radp

if Chrome's saving is worth a damn, the URLs should've been rewritten

<img src="./Our First Area 51 Site Goes Public - Blog – Stack Overflow_files/nothing-to-install-logo.png" alt="Q&amp;A for power users of web applications" title="Q&amp;A for power users of web applications" width="333" height="69">

status-norepro

Popular Demand

18:11

I'm sure I'm not the first person to have this idea, but can Stack Exchange hook up with existing communities about [insert topic here]? I don't think anyone would argue that Coding Horror and Joel on Software provided a great seed population for SO, and if we want experts for other topics, why not go to where they already are?

rchern

that seems to be getting into SE1.0 territory. though maybe we'll see what happens?

Popular Demand

@rchern They'd still be SE 2.0 sites born from A51, we'd just be taking a different approach to getting beta users.

radp

@PopularDemand uh, I thought that would be a given

Popular Demand

I'm worried that passively waiting for experts to come to us is a losing proposition.

rchern

promotion wise of course

but that's up to the community to reach out

radp

18:20

Who said you should be waiting for experts

that's what referral is about

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2912/… -- Hameds has an amazing 111 referrals.

Popular Demand

@radp Referrals are currently depending on people who know about the site to send out invitations. It works fine if the existing committers/users are experts, but not if they aren't.

radp

Uh, if you are an expert, have a blog with large traffic and follow the related Area51 proposal

referring is basically what you are asking for.

Popular Demand

@radp Do people like this exist?

Argh, where are all my co-workers?

It's 2:30 and everyone's gone!

rchern

they all know it is the weekend?

(;

anyways, bbl. bye!

Popular Demand

@rchern And they were all told to come in today anyways.

George Marian

18:44

WTF....right channel just cut out...unplug the jack slightly and both channels work. =/ Gah, front panel jacks are nice...if they're not effing cheap.

radp

I find it amusing I get a fraps frame counter for Sublime Text.

Popular Demand

@GeorgeMarian Well, don't jam it in so hard next time. Problem resolved!

George Marian

lol

For some reason, it worries me more to have it sticking out slightly then all the way in. (Yes, I know...lots of good jokes there.)

Popular Demand

I know what you mean, it looks broken even though it's not.

George Marian

Yah, that must be it, as it's actually "safer" this way. More likely to just fall out, rather than break something if I bump into it or pull the cord.

Popular Demand

18:51

@GeorgeMarian Apple, you have a call on line 2. Apple, call on line 2.

George Marian

LOL

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